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I find current wide range cassettes quite gappy, adding a double means i can fill in the gaps easily.
I'm genuinely interested here- do you actually change back and forth between the chainrings while you're in the middle of the cassette to find the gears in between?
Edit- or do you mean a double lets you use a close ratio cassette?
On 8, 9 and 10 speed i've done both, road cassettes and doubles or wider range cassettes and front shifting to fill the gaps, depends on the course. Some courses/races/events i've not shifted at the front at all.
11 speed i'm still not sure if it'll be viable, i'd either need a road freehub to get 11 speed, or use the ultegra 11 speed cassette (11-34). It will be something i try this season i think. Depending on if i can get fit enough to justify racing.
And yes, i change between the chainrings, its easy.
Fair enough. I must admit I'm impressed you can reliably find you're in slightly too hard a gear, shift at the front, then at the back the right number to get back to just below where you were to start with. Practice I suppose. I always viewed the front mech as a 'high/med/low' range selector.
Fair enough. I must admit I’m impressed you can reliably find you’re in slightly too hard a gear, shift at the front, then at the back the right number to get back to just below where you were to start with. Practice I suppose. I always viewed the front mech as a ‘high/med/low’ range selector.
Honestly, that’s very easy to do on any 2x or 3x set up.
I’ve recently got 1x11 on my newest MTB. (Also have a 2x10 MTB, 2x10 monster-cross and 2x10 ‘proper’ cross.) The 1x11 copes with most rides - I spin out on anything vaguely downhill on the road, sometimes need to drop several gears frantically trying to find some pedalling resistance after cresting a hill, sometimes wonder why my legs are struggling so much up steep climbs on the 32t ring. I wouldn’t want a 1x on any of my workhorse bikes, though it’s fine on a purely off-road bike.
One other take here is the SRAM vs Shimano thing, especially on non-MTBs...
I have SRAM Force 2x10 on my road bike and Shimano Ultegra 2x11 on my CX bike and I simply can't use strong enough words to describe how much better the Shimano bike shifts compared to the SRAM one. Leaving aside consideration of double-tap vs Shimano's dual lever, the action on the Shimano bike is lighter, more precise and infinitely more pleasurable to use. Personally, I prefer the two lever solution, but it's the action and quality of the kit that stands out for me here, rather than the control implementation.
If it was a choice between SRAM 1x and Shimano 2x on the road/CX, it would be a no-brainer to me - Shimano 2x every single time. Now if Shimano finally get some decent 1x kit out this year, this might muddy the waters, but for now I have no indecision over which I prefer.
doesn’t happen using sram twist shifters as you have a dozen clicks to change the =front mech so intermediate positions and also shouldn’t happen if the mech is properly set up. I don’t have this on my bike.
I hate grip shift and that doesn't address the annoying chain clatter which is worse.
Again not an issue with my 2x setup – as I don’t use messy oils.
I take your point but I use wet lubes which don't get washed off after the first puddle and actually lubricate the chain. Use chain cleaning device after every wet ride - 2 mins - job done.
Also with a 2x you have better chainline most of the time. Parts are a lot cheaper as well
1x is getting cheaper but in terms of chain line yes, that's definitely points for 2x. Not enough to swing it for me though.
Honestly, that’s very easy to do on any 2x or 3x set up.
Hmm. Checked the numbers and fair enough, for a typical triple you're talking a chainring shift and two recovery shifts to get you that in between gear (when using the middle and high- I can't see it being practical between middle and low, it's 3 recovery shifts if there's an in between at all). I can't see that working for me but that's the personal preference bit.
in terms of chain line yes, that’s definitely points for 2x.
I'd assumed this, but when I think about it I think there are too many variables for it to be a blanket statement. If you always shift carefully, avoiding cross chaining etc, then yes, but if you don't (and I don't think it's uncommon) you presumably have more potential for a poor chainline. E.g. someone who uses a double, mostly in the middle of the cassette, will have slightly worse chainline than 1x most of the time because the chainring is offset and the potential for much worse in big-big. Made worse if, as seems likely, the 'big' ring is bigger than the single ring- you're in bigger sprockets for the same gear, leading to a higher chain angle. I doubt 1x is better, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Then you've got the extra loading of front shifting regularly too.
I’d assumed this, but when I think about it I think there are too many variables for it to be a blanket statement. If you always shift carefully, avoiding cross chaining etc, then yes
Yes but an experienced and skilled rider soon learns not to cross chain and maintain a good chainline. 1x wins out on chainline for beginners and those with no mechanical sympathy. But not the majority of riders I would say.
Just trying to add a bit of balance - Im most definitely anti-front mech these days 🙂
Yes but an experienced and skilled rider soon learns not to cross chain and maintain a good chainline
You have a more optimistic view of the majority of riders than me! I don't think a lot of people I ride with pay that much attention.
Am I the only one who runs 32/11-40 1*10 and sneakily leaves the 25gm inner ring on in case of leg failure (I've never used it, but nice to know it is there!) but with no front mech.
All the benefits of sequential shifting, yet with the option of a manual shift down should I find myself on an interminable climb with bad legs...
Am I the only one who runs 32/11-40 1*10 and sneakily leaves the 25gm inner ring on in case of leg failure (I’ve never used it, but nice to know it is there!) but with no front mech.
Just my personal opinion, and I may be wrong and a bad person but I think that is ridiculous. I would mock you publicly if I rode with you. Commit!! 😁
Am I the only one who runs 32/11-40 1*10 and sneakily leaves the 25gm inner ring on in case of leg failure (I’ve never used it, but nice to know it is there!) but with no front mech.
Don't know but I like the idea - Id do that if I was running 1x10
running 30/10-42 1x11 gives me the same high gears but with more of a bail out option. If I run out of gears in this setup (rarely) Id be quicker walking.
Ianpv,
i do that, but i also left the front mech on too.
and a remote operating cable.
and a super special lever in the bars to pull said cable.
this has the added bonus of giving me the ability to swap between front rings whilst actually moving too 😀
why would you want to do that?
If you are so knackered that you need the granny ring then getting off the bike for a minute is a good idea
Getting off for a few minutes Is a good idea.
IF you can walk, which I can’t for any more than about 30 yards.
however, i can quite easily cycle those 30 yards, although only at around walking pace.
Yes but an experienced and skilled rider soon learns not to cross chain and maintain a good chainline. 1x wins out on chainline for beginners and those with no mechanical sympathy. But not the majority of riders I would say.
I would suspect that a 1x setup is probably worse for chainline than a 2x setup ridden without the extreme gears. I'd probably need to do some maths to see if this is the case or not.
BTW, there are two groups of riders out there - those that cross-up gears on a 2x setup because they have no mechanical consideration and those that know that for a 2x setup, it actually makes very little difference so cheerfully cross their gears anyway. It's not like with a 3x setup where there was a pretty extreme chain angle - modern 2x setups are quite happy to run crossed up with no ill effects.
Or, to put it another way, you'd be better off making sure your transmission is clean and well lubricated instead as this is far more likely to have an impact on wear than running crossed gears periodically on a 2x setup ever would 🙂
Practice I suppose.
Practice and knowing what gear you are in and what gears you have.
Also, it's quite easy with the more compact cassettes as it's almost always one at the front and two at the back to get to the "right" gear when you are in those middle 6 or 7 sprockets, the bigger cassettes, it gets a bit less clear cut. As it could be 1 and 3 for a couple of the shifts, right in the middle of the cassette.
But like i say, i've not looked at it much. Only been playing with 11 and wide range cassettes for a couple of years, as i've not been able to race (barely even able to ride until end of last year.)
And on 2x i've never worried about cross chaining, especially when you go to 29er or full suss, the stays are so long and compared to the old school XC 26" wheel bikes i started out on, it's not worth worrying about.
You have a more optimistic view of the majority of riders than me! I don’t think a lot of people I ride with pay that much attention.
One of the myriad of reasons for the increasing popularity in 1x systems, and eventually gearboxes/hub gears. One you don't need to think about, at all. The other, you barely need to service either.
Am I the only one who runs 32/11-40 1*10 and sneakily leaves the 25gm inner ring on in case of leg failure (I’ve never used it, but nice to know it is there!) but with no front mech.
No. I ride socially with a couple of guys who do this. One of them takes great delight in doing the downshift on the move, with his toe. Upshift is impossible due to the narrow wide ring!
Just my personal opinion, and I may be wrong and a bad person but I think that is ridiculous. I would mock you publicly if I rode with you. Commit!!
haha. Fair enough. My XC/winter hardtail has 30t chainring and a standard 11/36 cassette on 29" wheels, surely that counts as commitment!
Ianpv,
i do that, but i also left the front mech on too.
and a remote operating cable.
and a super special lever in the bars to pull said cable.
haha again, and also fair enough. But on that bike (my trail bike), the clutch mech/narrow wide chainring retention bonus and near silent operation outweigh having a shifter that I never use, and I can fit a bigger tyre on the back with no mech in the way. Much easier to clean, too.
My XC suspension bike has 2*10, so I clearly can't make my mind up.
I would suspect that a 1x setup is probably worse for chainline than a 2x setup ridden without the extreme gears.
Yes. Standard 1x chainline puts the single ring in the same position as the outer ring of a double (~ 50.5mm), so 1x lowest gear is as bad as riding big big.
If you use a lower chainline and put the chainring closer to the middle you get better overall chainline, but it's still a bit worse in top and bottom gears than 2x is in top and bottom gears.