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Something I've noticed over time here and reading comments on the pink bicycle site. All companies have their fans and haters, but some stand out for seemingly having passionate factions of fans and haters who argue a lot about whether the brand or their latest product is great or crap.
I don't consider myself a brand fan or hater, although there are some small brands I'd speak up for, and a few specific products I'd warn others against.
I have a few in mind, let's see if STW thinks the same.
*controvesial*
Shimano. Not repairable and not cross compatible half the time. I have 104bcd shimano chainrings that do not fit on a 104 bcd shimano crank for example
I never buy shimano if I can avoid it
Planet X/On One - shysters and crooks.
Giant - after their warranty shenanigans?
Orange - Overpriced, mostly fugly.
Surly - pretending to be cool/alternate but part of one of the biggest bike companies in the world.
Cannondale
Some of the best bikes I've ridden
One of the worst bikes I've ridden so much I sold it and quit riding for 3years.
Love_-Hope! UK made, repairable.
Santa Cruz - for many they are overpriced and very common; for many others they are the ultimate bikes - I think that is a great example of a Marmite bike brand.
i really like Specialized bikes and stuff. a bit like my old ford mondeo, they just work and keep on working.
and i really dislike orange bikes. for personal reasons.
Dislike: Spesh- had a pretty poor warranty experience with them so now wouldn’t touch any of their stuff.
like: Hope and Orange, might be a little more expensive than some of their competitors but the peace of mind that you’ll be looked after if something dies go wrong makes it worth it.
Santa Cruz – for many they are overpriced and very common; for many others they are the ultimate bikes – I think that is a great example of a Marmite bike brand.
Congratulations on getting the point, which it seems some others have not.
The question is about marmite brands, not about which brands you love or hate.
For example, AFAIK Hope has fans but doesn't really have haters that think the product is crap and make disparaging comments on every thread/review about them. So it's not a marmite brand. Unless of course you can explain otherwise.
Plenty of folk on the other site seem upset with 5Dev, based on one YouTubers experience or how the cranks look.
Any brand that makes expensive stuff, regardless of its function. Come to your own conclusions as to why that might be.
Oh christ yes Hope has its haters. Always has back to the Hope v Hayes days.
Spongy crap vs progressive blah blah blah.
Shimano are problematic but not what I'd call Marmite.
Now Manitou, let's talk about Dorado's...
Ok - superstar then. Some folk love some hate.
You can't really hate a giant bike, as they're generally too good for that. But definitely some folk would dislike the company and never ever own one. Faceless corporate bike design, bland, conservative excellence.
OTOH if you're not the type to have a bicycle form part of your identity, then you might love Giant - they have made some of the best performance / cost bikes of all time.
Plenty of folk hate SRAM. Some justified, others because 🤷
Hope deffo have their haters. As do spesh, just because, well, spesh really....
Orange are a very marmite brand. Giant I see as the Ford of the bike world. Bikes could never seriously be called crap or hated. But some people will dislike them as they are deemed boring.
Never get the hatred for Shimano, shit just works, always has, always will.*
*never owned an E-Bike...
You can’t really hate a giant bike, as they’re generally too good for that.
Except when they rip off other designs.
MPH > Hope C2
Maestro > DW Link
Plus whatever else.
Never get the hatred for Shimano, shit just works, always has, always will.
Never had to rebuild a brake presumably?
Except when they rip off other designs.
All engineering is basically a variation on existing designs. The DW link and Giant Maestro are both variations on upper and lower control arm suspension that has been used in cars for many decades. All MTB hydraulic disk brake systems are variations on the same design that was used in cars and motorbikes for many decades.
Ellsworth. Loved by many, hated by people who aren't off their heads on crack. 😉
In the ebike world, Haibike have a lot of fans, but they tend to have a 'strong look' that's definitely Marmitey.
They're definitely improving with later models though
Surly… just never understood them. Kooky for kooky’s sake. In reality heavy and ugly.
Intense: again, never understood what the appeal has been. All their bikes look terrible. Like the visual equivalent of one of those massive US trucks (F150 or similar.)
ParkTool - some people love, others hate. I think it depends on what product of theirs you buy to a degree but you’ll definitely get different answers if you ask people if they love or hate them.
I think the Marmite element of the OP means it’s not just a case of like/dislike it’s got to be love/hate..
and i really dislike orange bikes. for personal reasons.
Oh do tell Ton, we all love a good story....
I like my bikes to be a bit different so I really dislike boring brands like Cube, Giant etc
Hate is too much for a brand in this industry imo, there may be car or energy companies that get almost that reaction from me but no-one in the quality/ specialist bike world deserves it.
Love -
Jones bikes and Jeff Jones's work. Some will hate it. It's polarising because it's so different and I love why it's different. Original thinking that always seems right by me. Influential.
Peter Verdone's projects. I guess he's a brand in a way, certainly has a 'tone of voice'.. Again, someone who thinks critically and originally even if I disagree with a number of his opinions.
Rene Herse. Another brand with strong opinions and claims, some I agree with and others I don't, they (Jan Heine, mainly) do the work to earn those opinions though. Influential and appreciated.
Magura. Lots of people love their brakes. Lots of people hate them as they're 'plasticy'
Rapha would seem to be the definition of a marmite brand.
You either love the image or hate it. You either think they’re priced extortionately and a way for rich people to show off, or you think that quality costs and you’re happy to pay for it. You love wearing black and being a ninja on the road, or you hate it because all cyclists should look like road workers. You love tats and beards or think both should only be found on sailors in 19th century novels, and definitely not on women.
Some people love Hambini.
Many people think he’s a colossal bellend.
Yeti. I’ve owned a couple and would have another. Many people hate them and wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.
Chris King - many (most?) think that they’re just expensive, blingy, tat that has no benefit over say, Hope. Others consider them the epitome of things which move on bearings and wouldn’t consider using anything else.
Bikes I'll never buy based on looks are Ibis, Pole, Haibike, Marin, and Cannondale, for other reasons Giant can do one.
Park tools are totally overpriced, their competitors all seem to be reasonably priced, similarly so.
I kinda like Hambini but also think he's a colossal bellend.
Orange, Chris King fit the bill.
Moulton doesn't as they are an obscure niche that almost noone loves or pays any attention to apart from a small group.
Rockshox... Perhaps reverbs specifically.
VW t5/6 van. Yes not a bike brand bet a very marmite bike accessory!
The thing with marmite is I can take it or leave it.
I don’t think I have any hate for any brand, but I’d shy away from Specialized, Giant and Trek just because of their ubiquity.
Another for Santa Cruz
Probable unfairly, I associate the brand with cycling becoming distastefully too much about the bike - expensive bikes - and less about adventure, friendship, journey, challenge and making do with what you've got. Whenever I see a SC in a car park I just think "there's someone who's trying to buy a bit of talent and will be a bit loud in the pub afterwards". People who 'get it' don't ride Santa Cruz.
I would argue that the more expensive something is, the more likely it will fit into this category. The are quite a few boutique bike/component makers who charge a massive premium for their products but with no obvious benefits over many other much cheaper options. Quite a few of these have already been mentioned.
Came here to post something about Ellsworth, glad someone beat me to it with some particularly gopping examples above. However... The Ellsworth Epiphany didn't look quite so awkward and remains one of the nicest to ride xc orientated full suspension bikes that this rider has encountered, just for its handling balance and pedal feel. I have not ridden a similar bike made since that matches its technical climbing ability, though tbh it's not like I've tried them all...
I've never understood the hate for SRAM. Everything of their's that I've used has done the job, and is far better than what we used to put up with.
Moulton doesn’t as they are an obscure niche that almost noone loves or pays any attention to apart from a small group.
People who love Moultons REALLY love them. And people who don’t get them really deride them. That’s full on Marmite.
I’ve never understood the hate for SRAM.
Once you’ve binned a component because it was clearly not close to being ready for real world use, you’ll get it. Avoid their low end groupsets ‘till others have tested them out for you, and you’ll miss out on all the hate. There’s also the way they try and lock you in as a customer, while also ensuring their spares make them good money. But they’re far from alone in that, are they. Still, they’ve improved bikes along the way… it’s all about what you focus on… glass half full or glass half empty… half their “advances” have made mountain biking better, half have increased cost and hassle. Maybe.
Yea, never been a fan of Orange bikes. I think they are one of the most overpriced brands out there, not far of the likes of Santa Cruz. Just under £5k for the base spec Stage 6 EVO with SLX and WTB rims? Aye, dead on. But, it's not hatred.
Stolen Goat
Why would anyone dislike Chris King stuff? It's expensive but also beautifully made. I don't have any of their stuff, I usually buy Hope but I can see why people do. There are plenty of King headsets in the retro world that look like new after 30 years of use.
Similar to Park Tools. Having bought cheaper stuff for years and years I've started to collect a few Park bits and from my experience it is just better. Their old school crank extractor is another world compared to the others I have.
SRAM, Shimano, On-One/Planet X, Trek, Orange, Santa Cruz, Yeti and Marin are defo Marmite.
Crank Bros.
I know some folks who love their stuff and others (me) who have rules about Cranks Bros and moving parts that will never be broken.
Agree about Surly and Santa Cruz, both either devoted or derided.
I’ve never understood the hate for SRAM. Everything of their’s that I’ve used has done the job, and is far better than what we used to put up with.
Their entry / mid level MTB groupsets aren't in the same league as shimano ime - not really a marmite situation there. Higher end stuff I'm sure is fine, and since shimano brakes started to suck, might be ahead these days.
Same goes for road imho, but road shifters (shape and mechanism) are much more personal taste. Some riders will love the sram feel regardless (the etap stuff is also mega easy to install compared to wired shimano di2).
I quite like my Surly Ogre.
Sure it's heavy (sturdy) but it worked as a single speed for comuting and shopping when my Kona Unit frame snapped.
It rides nicely with a load and doesn't go all noodly. You can swap between gears and single speed in about half an hour.
It's OK but not niche enough for some.
Who cares!
I don't like over designed carbon gravel bikes where most of the cables and brake pipes disappear down the head tube a triumph of looks over function.
I’ve started to collect a few Park bits and from my experience it is just better.
Some of their stuff is better, some of it is just tat. Things like the hanger alignment tool (for instance) has so much play in it, that its pretty much pointless for the task it was designed for.
Why would anyone dislike Chris King stuff?
something something o-rings something something patents expiring.
And it’s expensive.
Rapha and Trek were two brands that I'd not be interested in buying in the past. Too common and a bit too shouty. Now though I am a bit of a fan of each, based on my shopping experiences when buying from their shops. I appreciated the attention of detail, overall quality and knowledgeable/helpful staff. Will buy again.
something something o-rings something something patents expiring
Not only is that well in the past, you can buy just that bit of the headset, for any of their headsets, rather than buying a whole new one. Spares and upgrades for old kit is what makes me love a brand, personally (see also Hope… and before the sale, Pace). Making kit on your new bike incompatible and disposable within the year, as if you’re expected to buy a whole new bike every few years, has the opposite effect on me.
not niche enough for some.
Too right. Loads of reverse snobbery goes on, even more so when the thing that they're being niche about is a bit shit, like inner tubes for example.
I wonder who they're trying to convince?
Their entry / mid level MTB groupsets aren’t in the same league as shimano ime
Yep, agree with that, but once you get to GX and above they are equally good, and when it comes to electronic/wireless Shimano have been left for dust, I can't imagine any top of the range bike will have XTR specced on it from now on, which is going to be a problem for Shimano. I reckon they've maybe the next iteration (3-5 years) to catch up, or give up entirely in the upper price range. It's interesting that all their new developments are aimed at the lower priced, mass market end of the segment.
I love Chris King stuff. I never had the o-ring issues. Only reason I have gone away from their hubs is the industry keep changing standards that the hubs Will comfortably outlast.
Muc-off/X-lite. Their hardware was overpriced and useless, their cleaning products overpriced
Why would anyone dislike Chris King stuff?
I have a love hate thing with Chris King, I quite admire the engineering and attention to detail, and their bearings are waaaay better than pretty much everything, and they are undoubtedly pretty, but then there's the price, and the, I dunno, smugness? (it's not quite that, but you know) about them and o-rings and expansion rings that was laughable.
But mostly it's "How bloody much?"
I think Surly bikes are not good value in the UK. You'd be better off building one up yourself. They do seem to be well thought out and well made, and will last a long time. I especially like their allowance for bigger tyres. Some of their components are very good, anyone use one their stainless steel singlespeed sprockets? These things can outlive you IMO.
Salsa, their sister brand is similar in being overpriced for full bikes, but I've a pair of their bars (Saltflat) which are excellent and only £40.
The one brand that comes to mind as being devisive is Pace.
But mostly it’s “How bloody much?”
Seen the price of a new SRAM “Transmission” rear mech? And a Chris King headset will outlast one of those by decades.
To clarify, I love CK stuff, but that’s what gets trotted out about them as why folk think it’s shiny tat.
Can we do components?
Shimano GRX cranks are both equally amazing and annoying.
Theyre tough, light, cheap, function well and look good. They also use existing bottom brackets but..... Why did they make them with a unique bolt pattern? You can only fit GRX specific chainrings, which is very annoying if you want to go oval (an oval ring for these is something like £80!) or less than Shimano smallest 40t chainring.
I did build my Surly myself as with most bikes it allows you to have the bits you want.
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Avid/SRAM brakes seem marmite. Most people go for Shimano these days but I still love my old Elixir 3s, the lever feel is great and I have loads of modulation and power when I need it. They are a pain to bleed though but once that's done they're pretty hassle free.
I had an old SLX set that I took off after the first few rides as I hated the wooden on/off feel. Also the pistons cracked and leaked everywhere. Maybe just had a dodgy set but it's put me off for years.
Dislike Santa Cruz - the Burberry of the bike world. See also Rapha.
Again Orange, dog of a bike, although again, personal.
Like Hope, Cotic, Spesh, Carradice, Surly (although I dislike the marketing and overinflated prices), Lusso, Exal, Mavic, Easton, Kona.
Some people love Hambini.
Many people think he’s a colossal bellend.
Some of us think he is a colossal bellend but thats why we love him!
Haibike aesthetics
Endura. The stuff from years ago was good. Modern replacements less so. ☹️
Rapha and Trek were two brands that I’d not be interested in buying in the past.
Rapha is a very good example of a Marmite brand.
Most people who do use it regard (most of) it as very good.
Most people who don't use it regard the people who do use it as stereotypical all the gear no idea.
The latter people are wrong, obviously and I think the image issue is far less than it used to be but there's still a core minority who will always look down on the brand.
Orange always seemed (to me) like a bit marmite as well. A load of people who defended them for their simplicity, made-in-Britain etc and a load of people who regarded their bikes as being "industrial", possibly related to filing cabinets...
On which note, where have all the Orange bikes gone?! Used to be you couldn't move around the Peak District for Orange 5's everywhere. Now... Nothing, not a hint of an Orange.
A lot of the time, when you're paying more, it's for a good reason. One 140mm travel carbon bike is not the same as another, with all sorts of qualities that only come out with long term ownership.
Eg from my experience of ownership of a YT, and a friend's ownership of an Orbea, 3-4 years into ownership in a wet environment, bits start dropping off. Those same bits are mechanically attached on my Specialized, which is inherently more expensive.
I’d go for Pace. Never owned one myself but they seem to get equal amounts of love and hate on here. Trek are a brand that seem very beige but of the big three they’re the only one to ever do something interesting. Stache, full Stache and that cruiser thing who’s name I always forget.
Pinarello - largely by association.
I'm obviously in the wrong when it comes to marmite brands. I'm an engineer and I'm pretty much obsessed with stuff that just works. I don't have kids and can afford good stuff. Been mtbing for 35 years. Riding Santa Cruz since 2002 (basically due to the original blur being immense compared to its contemporaries), I use Chris King headsets and bottom brackets religiously, DTSwiss hubs, Reserve rims, sqlabs saddles, ergon grips, shimano brakes and transmission. I don't quite get fashion. I try stuff, if it works and is better than what I've been using, I see if I can afford it.
An example being hope brakes. When hydraulic disc brakes first came out, I bought some hopes to stop going through rims every 6 months. After a few years of continuously having to fix hope brakes (I still have a full set of soft goods for a hope mini brake), I switched to Shimano. You have difficulty fixing them when they tank, but, for me, they rarely tank.
People who love Moultons REALLY love them. And people who don’t get them really deride them. That’s full on Marmite.
I'm not sure I agree. Moulton (the man and the brand) are part of cycling history, especially cycling innovation. There are people who are really into that and love to collect their stuff from the stuff that was ubiquitous utilitarian for going to the shops and the experiments in suspension and fancier materials. Then there is the everyone else who either is completely ignorant of it's existence or superficially doesn't like it because it's not what they are used to seeing today and does not comprehend the context. i.e. the two groups are the informed geeks and the ignorant Jonnie come lately! For it to be a true marmite brand I think both parties need to be equally informed but just come to different conclusions.
Marino?
Marin?
(Or is the latter just beige rather than marmite)
Not parts, but still bike industry
MBUK
GMBN
Guy Kesteven
Rob Warner
Sam Pilgrim
Tommy C Hype
Singletrackworld
No-one mentioned Lefty forks yet? They provoke some pretty strong reactions!
Endura. The stuff from years ago was good. Modern replacements less so.
Indeed.
My experience of buying three Endura pieces a year back is 3 different sizes (despite what the label says), some sh*t design details and all three having stitching come undone in a year.
Yet other people love them...
Red Bull. Many seem to think they are saviours of the sport. I think they are just another big corporate exploiting the sport for their own commercial gain
I’m not a Trek fan - the way they treated Greg Lemond and their association with Armstrong, plus I’ve seen bikes frames fail and them not honouring their warranty.
Bianchi - worked in a dealer when Pantani was in his pomp - sales went up as the quality went south. Italian equivalent of Raleigh and Peugeot, mainly selling mass-produced BSOs.
Rapha - had some original stuff (bought cheap) but never quite got their schtick.
I don’t know about saviours, but Red Bull do seem to put a lot back into sport and have done so for a very, very long time. Long after many other sponsors have come and gone.
I think they are just another big corporate exploiting the sport for their own commercial gain
but you are fine with smaller companies doing the same? At what size should they bow out?
Bianchi – worked in a dealer when Pantani was in his pomp – sales went up as the quality went south. Italian equivalent of Raleigh and Peugeot, mainly selling mass-produced BSOs.
Same with a lot of Italian stuff though. Create a heritage and history around it, keep jacking the prices up and up. Pinarello, Bianchi, Campagnolo...
Campag is another Marmite brand. The aficionados will go on (and on, and on) about it. Everyone else thinks it's overpriced and not as good or as innovative as Shimano and SRAM.