[Closed] Manufacturer not honouring warranty - sales of goods act

You have no recourse with the mfr under the SoGA or the Consumer Rights Act. Your port of call is with the shop. If they think its a manufacturing defect they need to correct it and take that up with the manufacturer not you. That the manufacturer disagrees is not your problem.

"just over 6 months old when the issue was raised at the bike shop" at which point you need to prove the problem is one of manufacture not use.

"The shop did what they could" suggests they've accepted your proof, but they haven't done what they *must* which is repair or replace. "the manufacturer says no" is not your problem at that point.

What a pain. The answer is probably that legally the claim is with the shop. The legal obligation rests with them to sell goods that are fit for purpose. If the shop agree that the forks are damaged by normal use the ball is in their court to sort you out. It's their job to then claim off the manufacturer not yours

But quoting the law doesn't make it easy to resolve. I think the next step is to ask the shop verbally to honour the sale of goods act. But the smaller the shop are and the better you get on with them the harder this is

Ok. The bike shop contacted the manufacturer/importer with my issue and the importer/manufacturer said it is not a warranty issue. I have the letter with their reply. At this point I think they felt it was done on their side (the bike shop). I am not sure they are convinced it is a warranty issue. I said I would take it up with importer/manufacturer direct in an attempt to get it sorted without giving the shop a real headache.

So I guess it is back to the shop. Suggestions on how to approach?

If the manufacturer's literally provided a letter that says "stanchions aren't covered in the warranty", then find the actual warranty, read it line by line, if their letter contradicts that- which it probably does- then that's definitely going to be your best route imo. That takes it away from "is the wear reasonable" (which it isn't, but that's a tricker argument) to "they have broken their warranty agreement" which is just pitting text against each other.

OK, why do the importer say its not a warranty issue? What have they suggested the cause is? Does the shop agree with you or the importer?

On the assumption the answers are wear and tear or misuse and the shop agree your next step is to contact the shop in writing and ask them to confirm this things in writing, that they are aware of their obligations under the CRA and will honour those obligations if you can provide evidence of manufacturing fault, and also to return to you the costs of obtaining and providing that evidence.

Get a quote from a respected independent service centre to appraise the fork.

Send the quote it to the shop and get it confirmed they're going to pay, including shipping, if the answer is it's a fault.

Send the fork to said service centre for appraisal.

Forward on the response to the shop along with either a "sorry guv" and swallowing of pride or a copy of the bill and a quote for repair.

[edit] if the response is "stanchions aren't covered" politely word a reply telling them to get knotted. They're are intrinsic and structural part which shouldn't be subject to significant wear in normal use. If they broke in half would they be covered? Of course. If they're suggesting it's normal wear and tear then ask to return them as not fit for purpose as their working life is barely 6 months. If it's abnormal wear, what are they suggesting caused it? You're claiming defects in workmanship and materials not damage or wear.

Really it'll come down to does it look like premature wear eg the coating being polished off on one side by a crap bushing, or is it a gouge/scratch half way up a leg etc consistent with damage.

The letter states xxx class the fork stanchions as wear and tear item and the marking (their words, gouge is the correct description) could not be covered by warranty.

They seem to be classing it as wear and tear, as I assume the bike shop are. The shop passed pictures onto the the importer/manufacturer and provided the reply when they had it. Manufacturer offers to replace seals and sliders (bushings I think?) But not stanchions.

Will let the importer know I will go back to the shop, so give them a chance to fix it before I make the shops life difficult.

I will then ask the shop to honour sga. The forks are not expensive so a review and check will cost about half the fork.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Thanks all. I think I have enough to have a more robust conversation. It is not a big expenditure but it is annoying.

What caused the damage to the stanchions? Was the fork not assembled correctly? A flaw in the design?

I will then ask the shop to honour sga

Consumer Rights Act but, that aside...

A gouge is as likely as not a foreign body, have you had the lowers off at all? (maintained as per the service guides suggests that you have)
A bit of grit or something picked up at service will do that.
It could be swarf or poor finishing etc from point of manufacture of course.

Where does the gouge start - at or about wiper seal level or lower down?

Ultimately Kevin's point is the important one - what are you suggesting is responsible for gouging the stanchion which is a product fault?

gouge is the correct description

this changes things significantly. If something has damaged the stanchion rather than just wearing down the coating then things sway in favour of the manufacturer as it could well have been damaged by a foreign body. Any chance of a photo?

Gouge might be the wrong word, groove or striations. Vertical marking on the front side of the stanchion. It is the same markings in the same place on each leg. Worse on the right, presumably due to brake forces. I would say it is due to poor tolerance in the bushings? Just markings on the left leg but you can feel it with a finger nail on the right leg. Worse at the seals and reducing to the top of the fork.

I will make sure I use the correct act!

Not my fork or photo but similar to this

https://m.pinkbike.com/photo/20081476/

So I would say that:

1) Stanchions are a wear item
2) 6 months of use is clearly very premature wear
3) Something weird has happened to those forks. Perhaps the bushes were damaged, or they have been serviced wrongly / supplied without oil.
4) The 'just over' 6 months you state is important since faults reported at <3 months (or <6 months, I can't remember) are assumed to have been present at purchase whereas any later than that then the onus on you is to prove that the forks are faulty.

Overall I doubt this is a warranty issue. IMHO, the best you can hope for is to go back to the shop and explain how disappointed you are and hope they will supply some uppers at cost or something like that.

6 months of use is clearly very premature wear

I'd agree it's premature wear, but until it starts leaking oil I don't think it's a fault.. I had worn stanchions on some old z150s for about 5 years and they were fine. I wouldn't be happy with it on a 6 month old set, but if they retain oil I don't think its "not fit for purpose"

I’d agree it’s premature wear, but until it starts leaking oil I don’t think it’s a fault.

Except the stanchions are much more a bearing surface for the sliding, telescoping action of the fork. They're not significantly an air/oil seal.

Stanchions can wear but surely you would expect them to last more than a year if you follow the service/maintenance program. If the bushes are damaged or installed incorrectly that should be covered under manufacturing fault? Same with oil levels. By low use I mean low, service interval is 100hrs for opening up. 50hrs for bolt and check over. Forks have not made it to the 50hr interval yet.

If that were your 6 month old fork then to my (very much not an expert) eye, that looks like too little oil or ill fitting bushings. Certainly that would be excessive wear on a 6 month old fork.

Manufacturer offers to replace seals and sliders (bushings I think?) But not stanchions.

Seals is one thing, the bushings shouldn't need to be replaced unless there's something wrong. To my mind offering to replace them (guessing that's what sliders are) is an admission of "guilt".

Stanchion coating being wear and tear is one thing, that image isn't 6 months wear if the fork shipped with sufficient oil/grease (and no leaks) and correctly sized bushes, both those things are a manufacturing fault.

I assume the shop dropped the lowers at least to check the not visible bits?

Stanchions will be covered, they can't pick and choose what is covered in warranty, they can pick and choose length of warranty and limitations, but you will probably have to fight your case that you have maintained them against the booklet, which is pretty scary when you see 'every 30 hours', 'every 50 hours', etc, just have an argument ready.

As for raising the claim, just go through the appropriate website, they all tend to be online claims, might also be worth speaking to your credit card company if you bought through that with the added protection they offer.

Stanchion wear after 6 months? Something is clearly wrong either with the maintenance or with the part themselves. If they’ve been maintained as per the instructions, then there is a manufacturing fault.

The 200hr service interval for rockshox doesn’t mention replacing stanchions...

I had a set of forks that felt like they had a lot of friction from new. No amount of tuning them made them as supple as I expected them to be. After three months I handed them over to the local suspension guys to see if they could improve them.

Analysis of the internals showed the bushings were too tight from new. This had started to damage the stanchions although it was hard to see above the seal. They sent pics to UK distributor, and I was offered a new set of forks. Originally the offer was to replace the stanchions, but they didn't have any stock or dates for when they would have. So they upped the offer to a like for like replacement.

Appreciate this is potentially a different issue, but Sprung (who I used for tuning) sorted it all out with the Disti, and having their independent advice saved me having to going via the shop-disti route.

I would communicate with the shop and manufacturer that you will have the forks serviced by an authorised service centre, and if they are found to be faulty due to a manufacturing or assembly fault, then you expect for the forks to be replaced or repaired FOC.

The photo looks like the a lower end Suntour fork stanchion. They use a funny plastic joint upper and lower bushing arrangement that is not really up to proper MTB use IMO. My kids have them on Suntour XCR Air 24" forks. The stanchions are steel. They will last a while with little kids riding them, but the design is not up to heavy sustained use. The bushing material and fitment is relatively weak and sloppy. They use grease and not oil for lubrication.

we've not seen actual pics yet of the "wear" why the reluctance?

At more than 6 months old you have to show its a manufacturing fault ie you need a report from someone with expertise.

Warrenty is above your statutory rights

The forks are suntour 24 XCR air. They cost £139 so the whole getting an expert thing is not really viable. I just struggle to believe that they are designed wear out that fast! I brought them as we meant to be going to the Alps last year, but they clearly never happened. Quite glad we did not as I am not sure they would have been up to the job!

Would load a photo but don't see how to attach?

You can't attach a photo directly on teh website, you've got to host it elsewhere then link it. Kind of a pain, I just use Imgur because it's free and there are lots of pictures of cats.

XCRs are not the best for sealing tbh, they can be kept in good condition but you've got to really go above and beyond on the cleaning and servicing. My experience is that if you use them as directed, serviced according to directions, and use them fairly regularly in the UK then they won't last a winter without wear. And the internals are pretty weak so it's not the sort of fork that you can always recover with a service- once dirt/water gets inside they have little resistance. They perform pretty well apart from that.

So I think their response is frankly based on that- they know it's a fork with durability issues and they don't want to stand by it. It's a great option for bikes that get ridden infrequently or in dry weather ie your average entry level mountain bike but not as what you might think of as a "proper mountain bike fork".

Are they the ones with black lowers, or chrome looking? The black finish is basically cosmetic and wears like nobody's business, I think they've mostly switched these to silver just for that reason.

Right, not very often I post here any more but here goes....
Having delt directly with Grenville the Suntour distributor on many occasions I’d say that they’re one of the very best in the business and will warranty almost anything. I’ve sent a fork back recently that was in a very sorry state including worn stanchions and they serviced it FOC and sent it back working perfectly, but they didn’t replace the stanchions, pretty much stating exactly the same as this case. (It was a fork at around double the value of this)
What you’ve got there is a very low end fork designed for occasional light trail use. Give it some hammer on a regular (and winter...) basis and it’s just not going to last very long. Be a realistic about it’s capabilities!
Yes you’ve got your rights etc but it’s a wear part and it’s worn. The best thing you can do is save up and buy a better fork.... This one will carry on working long enough to sort something out.

Nice to see @PeterPoddy post. I agree with him entirely. I do understand your frustration, as you have invested money in this fork, but it is limited in it's longevity if used for regular mtbing. You could pursue it as not being fit for purpose with the shop, but the reality is it is a (very) budget fork. It is built down to a cost. My advice would be to chalk it up to experience and buy a cheap Rockshox fork in sale somewhere, or buy a s/h fork that is being upgraded of a new bike.

With a cheap Rockshox air for you can tune the spring rate, and adjust the damping a bit on Motion Control forks with the available adjustments or a slightly different weight oil if you are really keen. Seals will likely be available for some time, but I don't think the bushings are replaceable in all forks. In many, worn bushings means new lowers.

If you are still on 1&1/8" steerer and 26" wheels find a pair of Marzocchi MX Comps from 2003 and they may last forever...

They are the chrome fork. Sounds like others think I might be being unreasonable.

Suuntour have three or four more budget options for 24inch firks which they state as casual MTB use. The xcr is stated as xc fork, and at 139 is not really that budget. Sure cheap but not disposable level cheap. Also 6 months light use by a 20kg 7 year old is not really much. But if they are not up to much I guess there is not much I can do.

Especially as the bike shop I got them from is the only local one and where I have brought two bikes and take my difficult maintenance jobs to. They are good and I don't really want to make their life difficult. So I guess I might just have to let it go.

Its not so much you are being unreasonable as your case for a claim is weak - so while you might be right your chances of getting any satisfaction are low

What does the shop say about it? If you have a good relationship with them they might be able to go a bit above and beyond to help

Ahh! They ARE a 24" inch fork! I don't think you are being unreasonable if it is on a kids bike. the reason the bushings are so crap is because they can get away with that on a 20kg rider's bike. I would maybe go back to the shop and have a chat. One of the problems with kids forks is if you have one built to the "correct" tolerances, they don't have enough bodyweight to overcome the sticktion in the system.

Maybe replace the bushings if they are worn or contaminated, and the seals, and lather the internals up in a low NGLI grease. I don't think there is any danger of the stanchion structural integrity being compromised.

The bushing is something like this.

The item in the image is upside down and slides in from the top of the lower. The seal needs to be out to do it.