[Closed] managing cramp during longer races, one for the sweaty folk

I suffered badly at the mayhem we don't talk about and other longer rides too. I did Mayhem 2014 solo and was using hi5 energy drink and after about 8 laps I was cramping. I swapped to Hi5 plain tabs ( not caffeine ones) and was fine for the 8 more laps I managed. I use them all the time now and problem hasnt reoccurred. I found SIS didn't sit well at all when I used it. Gels gave me bad stomach cramps and sh*$s.

Any tips or hints from people that have suffered and beaten race ending cramps?

torsoinalake

Get fitter.

What a nob. Please feel free to share you're amazing training routine and results.

Cramping is not just about fitness.

I started suffering with cramps on some longer rides, especially in hot weather, over the last few months.

I've been using Skratch Labs hydration drinks and I've not had any problems since. I was using them when I was out in the Canary Islands a couple of months back and it was hot in the hills but no cramp issues using the Scratch drinks.

Cramping is not just about fitness.

Yes it is. There is a lot more to fitness than just CV capacity as well.

Diazepam actually works well for cramp as it relaxes the muscles.

I suffer from cramp too. I'm a very sweaty bugger, which I'm sure contributes as I loose salt. On this year's dyfi, I drank a litre of tonic water before the start as apparently the quinine helps. I also have leg cramp tablets I got off Amazon. I didn't get cramp on the dyfi, so possibly it helped.
I think it would probably help getting used to the distances beforehand, but sometimes that's a little inconvenient. Not sure fitness helps as much as people say, as I would say I'm pretty fit and have always suffered. I exercise 6-8 times a week.

What a nob

How tight are your shoes?
When on the road bike and have felt my calves cramping I've loosened off the straps on my shoes a bit and wiggled my toes to try and get more bloodflow down there. This does seem to give me a bit more time to get home before total seizure.
Haven't tried it on the mountain bike as I haven't cramped on it since getting new shoes I can loosen...

I doubt lotions potions and snake oil will help. The science I've read suggests it is down to fitness and, as above, not just CV.

Look at setup. If using spds can you adjust you cleat position. I find having mine further back takes pressure off my calves and allows me to use bigger muscles such as quads.

In long races stretching out is important. On the road you can stand up to stretch out, harder on the mtb but still possible. Also adjusting position or dropping heels on easy descents?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't care what the science you've read says. I know for a fact that particularly in hot weather if I don't make sure I get enough salts in I cramp up. If I do get enough salts in I don't. My fitness hasn't changed. I used to get cramps every ride but I very rarely get them now as I've nailed down what my body needs during exercise.

Get fitter

I speak as a fellow sweater, I used to get horrible cramp at around 3 hours, tried electrolyte tabs, Elete water, carbs, tonic water (contains Quinine, this is good apparently). The only thing that stopped them was getting fitter and getting my body used to the duration and intensity of the exercise.

I still use electrolyte tabs as I like the flavour in the water, I also make sure I'm very well hydrated before going out for longer riders but this is all window dressing, the thing that fixed it was riding more and getting fitter.

Not the answer you're hoping for I know.

[i]Cramping is not just about fitness.[/i]

It mostly is. Cramp is probably you trying to work at a rate your muscles can't sustain.

Thanks for the advice, could always be fitter, this is rather pointedly hammered home every time one of the Torq riders passes you in a race. 😯

I'm fit-ish, (14th out of 34 in the Bonty, sort of mid pack standard as a point of reference), it's difficult finding time to ride more with work and a toddler/baby combo. Maybe I have to get a bloody turbo.. 😥

I ride flats on the MTB, pain when heel dropping one of the first hints it's coming. I keep forgetting to stretch, that's a good reminder. I think having a mental note to always 'standing climb' a particular climb might help.

I'll order those drinks mentioned, stick some pork scratchings in my beard and drink a litre of gin and tonic before I set off.

Another heavy sweater and frequent cramper here.

My experience is that hydration, salts and electrolyte potions can help delay symptoms however the key is to train the body to operate beyond the normal point where cramps sets in.

Learning how to stretch on the bike and varying your riding position can also help.

EDIT: slight numbness in the foot/lower leg is my "tell" that the cramp is coming. Once it sets in, I can get it anywhere in the body.

nickc - Member

Cramping is not just about fitness.

It mostly is. Cramp is probably you trying to work at a rate your muscles can't sustain.

hence the word "just". I know a marathon runner that sometimes suffers from cramp in the middle of the night (no, not after hard runs). I started having cramp issues a couple of years ago, half way through a ride that I'm happy using as a warm-up for other rides - whilst at the fittest i'd been in ages.

Fitness obviously has a major part to play, bit it doesn't sound like it's what's killing the OP in this case

For those that think cramp is predominately about electrolytes:

1. Sweat is mostly water (durrr) 😀 so electrolyte concentration in your bloodstream will either rise, or stay mostly the same
2. Not all your muscles cramp. (when people really do have an electrolyte imbalance they spasm uncontrollably all over)
3. If it's about salt loss; then stretching shouldn't help
4. Why are the muscles working hardest the ones that are cramping?

In a race, it's probably because you're working a lot harder than you would even in training.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2011/06/nutrition-and-muscle-cramps-%E2%80%93-what-does-the-science-say/

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/05/cramping-in-cycling/

Cyclingtips has some good articles. There are more on there about this and everything else.

There were some kicking around with the references to various peer reviewed journals but I don't have links.

Maybe best not to think about it as fitness but conditioning. A bit harsh in my original comments, make sure you are taking on the right food and water but it won't help if that is not the cause.

This:

http://www.torqfitness.co.uk/nutrition/torq-raw

Ribose, its a sort of magic and has worked wonders for this sweaty bugger. Ask Matt at Torq was a bit of a revelation when I first used it in a 12hr event. It also helps me to use an electrolyte drink, however I avoid those that contain anything other than minerals and salts I'm sweating out. Use a High5 zero unflavoured.

1. Sweat is mostly water (durrr) so electrolyte concentration in your bloodstream will either rise, or stay mostly the same
2. Not all your muscles cramp. (when people really do have an electrolyte imbalance they spasm uncontrollably all over)
3. If it's about salt loss; then stretching shouldn't help
4. Why are the muscles working hardest the ones that are cramping?

It's pretty compelling put like that but with regard to point 1, if I'm taking pure water in at the same rate it's coming with out with salts diluted in it then this can't be true. After 4 hours my helmet straps were coated in salts, it was extraordinary.

Stretching only relieves the pain, not the causes.

I'll get fitter and stop complaining. 8)

There are a lot of studies about at the moment saying cramp isn't due to electrolyte issues, and a ton of anecdotal evidence to suggest taking an electrolyte drink & staying hydrated will lessen/prevent it.

I'm about as far away from an elite racer as you can get. These things helped me reduce cramps effects (or even stopping it happening for the first few hours):
Getting fitter
Loading up electrolytes in the week beforehand, magnesium apparently being one of the better ones.

[i]I'll get fitter and stop complaining[/i]

You're clearly fit already, it's maybe pacing yourself?

Do you use a HRM, They can be very useful for learning your zones with regards to aerobic and Thresholds, which are good indicators for long distance events

I suffer cramp so badly that following one race they had to call me an ambulance as every muscle group from my waist down cramped simultaneously. Luckily there was a consultant anaesthetist in the same event who sorted me out within 10 mins. The 'cure'? A cup of VERY strong salt water. So strong it was not much thinner than a paste!
After that experience I spent some time and money trying various different 'sports' solutions, until finally finding the answer: nuun tablets. Regardless of what posters above are claiming about fitness etc, these tablets just work. I never ride anywhere without a bottle containing nuun now. I've recommended nuun to everyone I've come across with the same problem since, and they've a 100% success rate so far. And that list runs into dozens of people. If you suffer as badly as I do, and then you find something that works, then it's like finding the fountain of youth!! Buy some, they just work.

+1 for Torq, although I use Torq's natural energy drink. I use the neutral flavour and just flavour with cordial. I used to get cramp quite bad but since using this for the last 4 or 5 years I've not had a problem. I my opinion its about fuelling the muscles and staying hydrated. Torq's natural energy does both. I've done 2 24hr solos using this stuff and no cramp. I also use a countdown timer on my watch to remind me to eat every 20 mins or so.

Have been given advice by a seasoned endurance athlete and Doctor, and while fitness is definitely the key element, try upping the tablet dosage. I now use min 2 tabs per bottle and have since avoided crippling cramp.

which Nunn tablets are the least foul?

I'm not a sweaty.....unless it's stupid hot...and I get cramp...sometimes you can work though it...other times you have to stop and stretch it out

I find also taking electrolyte tabs give me headaches...maybe because I'm not sweating out the salts??

Magnesium tablets are suppose to work

While I'm pretty convinced that it's 'mostly' about fitness (or as jonba said better; conditioning) there's also lots of reasons to stay properly hydrated, and there's no doubting that electrolyte tabs can help with that.

SA's experience sounds horrible, and that he's found a way to sort it out is brilliant. There's loads of tablets and mixes out there, there may be one that will sort you out?

James..
I used to cramp really badly in the 4 hr brass monkey races.
I found drinking plenty, and 'keeping just below my threshold' meant I didn't cramp in the later races. I found I placed much better, and cramped less (or none) as I got fitter as the series went on..

I'm sure the series this winter Will probably be a similar picture... Die in the first race, then improve..

So really I think fitness does play a key role, but as does drinking enough.

And the chap who claims sweat is mostly water...well, that's technically true, but in order to move the water from in to out, our bodies move salt, and the water follows. Hence you DO lose salt when you sweat...

DrP. NOT a doctor of philosophy 😉

Interesting reading, I have always suffered with cramp, so much so that I sometimes wake up in the night with a hamstring or calf cramp and end up bouncing around the room trying to stretch it out while knocking things over and waking the wife.

Mostly this is after exercise but I have been known to get it after an all day session on the beer.

Nuun tabs seem to help when cycling, not tried it when on the beer all day 😉

I am sweaty and suffer cramps during or after long, hot races. Someone told me that magnesium is good and one of my pre-race drinks is a Barocca, I think it helps. Someone else told me that I am taking out more than what's there plus what I put in. Kinda makes sense. Changing position helps, so does backing off. I resolve to drink more electrolytes if I can carry enough or there are enough water points and I bet that I'm not well enough hydrated every time it hits.

For those that think cramp is predominately about electrolytes:

1. Sweat is mostly water (durrr) so electrolyte concentration in your bloodstream will either rise, or stay mostly the same
2. Not all your muscles cramp. (when people really do have an electrolyte imbalance they spasm uncontrollably all over)
3. If it's about salt loss; then stretching shouldn't help
4. Why are the muscles working hardest the ones that are cramping?

In a race, it's probably because you're working a lot harder than you would even in training.

nickc has it absolutely spot-on. The reason that our sweat is so salty is because we consume way too much salt in our diets and it's the body's way of getting rid of the excess along with in our urine (just ask Chris Froome!)

It's been shown in reasearch that even in extreme deprivation situations the body will excrete excess salt until it reaches an equilibrium level for its needs and then stop. Packing a load more salt down in energy drinks justs continues the process and makes the body work harder to get rid of the excess.

nickc's last point is the really telling one that you should all ask yourselves.

I used to cramp quite badly on long sportives and tried almost every remedy going including most of the ones suggested on this thread. Then I discovered "Waterlogged" by Dr Tim Noakes and no longer bother with any electrolytes on any ride. I still occasionally get cramp but manage that with a bit of stretching and making sure I am adequately hydrated.

I can understand people using Zero tabs because they prefer the taste to plain water but honestly, you don't need the electrolytes they contain.

Tumms every 2 hours!! sorted!!!

Most people say their calves cramp, it's my thighs that are the problem!
My right thigh goes first, then the left on really long rides...
Have had the same issue when playing squash(after a game or in bed)
I've tried all the "remedies" over the years but it either happens or it doesn't!?....

Probably already mentioned in the above but as a suggestion, could a good warmup routine prevent cramping?

there's a whole load of stuff on the www about cramp (I've read a moderate amount as I get cramp in the soles of my feet, usually overnight and not at all associated with how much I've exercised - I'm flat-footed and I reckon that's somehow involved. Haven't really found a cure though)

[url= http://sportsscientists.com/2007/11/muscle-cramps-part-i/ ]These geezers[/url] may be talking shite, but it's plausible and apparently well-referenced shite and that's good enough for me

They echo the points above that sweat is generally hypotonic, so sweating doesn't deplete your electrolyte concentrations and in fact would have the opposite effect ([b][u]IF[/u][/b] you don't rehydrate - with a lot of plain water, that is)

They run through the popular hypotheses and pick them apart a bit and end up offering possible prevention strategies, I think

I have suffered thigh cramp on long events like Polaris and hot road rides but I find that electrolyte tabs do the trick.

Cramp in bed is horrible and I find that sticking my head under the bedclothes and re-breathing my own CO2 gets rid fast; my cycling buddy is a physician and reckons that might create carbonic acid and acidify the blood.

Elete water for me when racing, added to High5.

Nuun/Zym etc are all good, but I found I ran out of energy. High5 works well for me, and adding a few drops of Elete always works for me.

Stretches at any stopping points for a snack etc, touch toes, heel to ass, and cross feet and lean forward like touching toes. If I don't stretch throughout long rides i'll get cramp.

it's difficult finding time to ride more with work and a toddler/baby combo

and there is your answer. Not as fit, but still thinking you are.

With small kids unless you are incredibly selfish towards your partner you are not going to be as fit, plus tiredness will play a major factor, plus your probably not eating quite like you used to prior to kids?

People have far too much salt in their diet, and you wont get to salt deprivation in a 24hr race.

Buy a turbo and stretch more.... and give up racing until kids are old enough for it not to be painful 🙂

I think FunkyDunc has it.
I used to cramp terribly but a combination of High5 tabs and getting fitter/not pushing as hard has basically rid me of cramps. If I do get them now I know I've been pushing too hard and have to back right off and stretch them out. With two young'uns I don't have as much time to be out so I'm not as fit and if I go for it I can feel the cramp coming on quicker, I don't think that's a coincidence.

Cramp in bed is horrible and I find that sticking my head under the bedclothes and re-breathing my own CO2 gets rid fast; my cycling buddy is a physician and reckons that might create carbonic acid and acidify the blood.

People have far too much salt in their diet, and you wont get to salt deprivation in a 24hr race.

+1 nuun (Grape is lovely)
+1 move cleats back
+1 HRM / pacing for the duration
+1 conditioning
Also are you taking calf tension into the race? If i foam-roll for 20 minutes the night before i notice looser calves.

My experience comes from the odd 6hr MTB race and a few marathons but mainly dozens of 5/6 hour adventure races (run 20km, MTB 45km) and some 12hr, 24hr, 48hr non stop adventure races. I will only get cramp where i'm pushing the intensity further than my current fitness level.

I used to suffer really badly with cramp in races.

Since I started using 1 scoop of Torq electrolyte (any of the flavoured ones are electrolyte) and 10-15 drops of Elete water in a 750ml bottle, no more cramp.

This even worked for a 90 mile 11.5hr race in the Alps in 35 degree heat with no shade. Elete is a "cure" for me!

And no, I'm not sponsored by either of these companies and yes, Elete is bloody expensive for what it is.

Loads of advice, thanks all. Being of a scientific bent and working in an evidence based field I can't ignore the facts that no-one has actually linked electrolyte loss to cramping.

However.

I am an impressionable scamp so I've ordered some Nunn tablets and it's the excuse I needed to stick a Garmin on the credit card.

I'm off on the DrP gnarmac and grimacing ride on Sunday so I'll mix these up with some strategic stretching and keeping an eye on my heart rate.

Cheers

James

A lot of this has already been covered but a few points coming from experience of having been both very fit and very unfit.

- Sweating has little to do with fitness. Some people sweat more than others. I sweat the same regardless of fitness.

- I sweat lots but never have cramping problems. I don't believe that they're directly connected

- I have raced with people who were very fit and who regularly got cramp. Again, fitness and cramping aren't directly connected.

I learned that my leg cramps were the result of muscle fatigue, not salt shortages. I've successfully extended my range and endurance by eating during the ride more frequently than I thought would be necessary. Every 45minutes!

I used to suffer similar cramp during long rides, and also I regularly got cramp in feet and calves during the night.
I started taking Magnesium each morning in the form of 'Floradax' liquid from Holland and Barrat. I very rarely get any cramp now.

I think the key here is to find what works for you.

It doesn't matter what the "science" or anybody else says, if it works for you then do it.

Electrolytes and fluids are the key. When I was regularly training in 40 plus degrees in UAE, I would suffer more frequently than when riding in the temperate UK. It wasn't a fitness thing.
I'd go through 10 litres of water and adding electrolytes made it possible to ride.

My experience of cramp from running and its prevention is all in the build up to the race. I was trying to manage it by using Xero tablets in my drink during the run and would still end up with cramps during the run. I then started to put the Xero tablets in water as weak mix (I don't add salts to any of my food) during the week commencing. I found that I got no cramps at all. I was also using a foam roller during the week too. Don't think the later had anything to do with preventing the cramps but worth mentioning. During the race I switched from using Xero tablets to Power Bar IsoMax powder mix as I couldn't stomach energy gels.