[Closed] Major life decision, transitioning

I got some superstar nanos as they were cheap at the time and in case I didn't like it. For the Tweed Valley steeps it totally makes sense especially having tried SPD's again recently.

I used to ride flats and clips only - then went to SPDs only - now I have a mix and even swap so one bike will have SPDs one day and flats the next. No issues at all

Never bother unclipping when I am in SPDs - I can unclip no issue should I need to dab

I rode clipless off road since just before spds were invented. About a decade ago, I thought I'd give flats a go and I've not ridden spds since.

I like the shoes and pedals as sticky as possible. Vaults and 5:10s

Common tips, run the foot further forward. Axle under the midfoot rather than the ball of the foot and drop the heels.

Were you unclipping to put a foot down? If so a flat pedal won't help with that as you'll still put a foot down.
Is it new pedals you need or more practice on manky roots?

I can't really help with either but if flats are what you think you need then go for it and enjoy the riding.

I have started using flats for bike parks or any ride where I know the focus will be on descents and jumps. And my riding is all the better for it. Still swap back to SPDs/Mallets for more distance type XC rides on my MTB and only use SPDs on the gravel bike.

Were you unclipping to put a foot down? If so a flat pedal won’t help with that as you’ll still put a foot down.
Is it new pedals you need or more practice on manky roots?

It was more that I was anticipating needing too so unclipped, which ultimately slowed me down

I also came unclipped on a jump and nobly just rode it out

I really like the GR7s, but it wouldn't be my choice as first flat shoes. They are very stiff and you'll find yourself double-checking if your feet are placed properly.

Pick something that gives more feedback, I would say 5.10s are the way to go (FRpro, regular FRs are rubbish and overpriced)

5.10s and Vaults for me. Have been using Vaults since they came out - I gather some newer pedals are similarly large and concave and grippy yet also more durable but mine have lasted well with minimal servicing. Freerider Pro are stiffer, lighter and dry out faster than normal Freeriders.

I haven't put a mass of miles on them but I really love my Unite pedals, nice big platform and supports a British company.

Have recently started experimenting on flats for biking where climbing isn't key (e-bikes and bike parks).

So far, experiment has been Freeriders and various not-so-tacky pedals. All good, especially the shoes. Don't miss the stiffness of the spd shoes as I'm not climbing!

As I've only ridden Freeriders can't really offer much of a comparative, but they fit me well and grip isn't an issue, so will happily continue with them.

Based on results so far, seriously considering permanent move to flats on the XC bike, which is >80% of my riding...

Decent shoes make more difference than pedals for maximum grip IMO, I have 5.10's and Superstar pedals, i have to lift my foot up to reposition it.

I'm mostly a clipped in rider, my biggest struggle with flats is when my feet aren't in exactly the right position as they are with clips.

I accidentally ended up at glentress on flats having ridden spd/ time for years.

I hated it! For about a third of my ride, then.

"Common tips, run the foot further forward. Axle under the midfoot rather than the ball of the foot and drop the heels."

And it was ok! The ball of the foot on the axel did not work for me at all.

Nukeproof Horizon Sam Hill Enduro with either Impact Pro or (my new fave) 2FO DH is an awesome combo. The Horizon are asymmetric and actual pit your foot position nicely forward of the axle by default.

Dunno if you can still get them but Gusset Slim Jims are ace, I've been using the same pair for the last however many years and the only time I've laid a spanner on them was to swap them over to other bikes!

You may have to resign yourself to spending a small fortune finding what works for you.

5.10 shoes aren’t perfect by a long shot so I’ve tried Shimano, Giro and Teva but always ended up back with 5.10 for the grip.  The Freerider Pro should be my favourite  as they are light and dry well but I don’t like their fit so much and prefer Impact Pros or even plain old Impacts.

I’ve been through a mountain of pedals from Superstar, Gamut, OneUp and others I can’t remember but have settled on Burgtec 4 as they suit me and haven’t needed maintenance every 5 minutes.

And for perspective I’m old and slow.  If I enter an enduro race I’m just happy to finish in one piece, I don’t even know what a podium is.  I used SPD from when they first came out until about five years ago.

I find it harder work pedalling in flats, but better for tech. As you'd expect.

I use mid-foot for tech and ball for pedalling. But then my bike is very old and has a short reach.

Good decision on trying the flats.

I was on clips for nearly a decade, then 3 and half years ago switched to flats. Best thing I ever done for me riding, enormous progression, even if a little awkward for the first months.

My first shoes were Shimano GR7s, which I now rotate with a pair of Impact Sam Hills. The GR7 don't offer maximum grip, but are effective in teaching you how to ride flats. For some time I'd avoid them on really rough tracks, but nowadays I use them pretty much everywhere as my technique improved.

The Impacts are ridiculously grippy, like SPD like grippy. You can get away with lousy technique or loose composure and stay put. I also love to climb with them as they are so stiff and grippy, super efficient. I use the GR7s mostly in the summer as they are much cooler and also look more subdued.

On the pedal department I've been on Nukeproofs Horizon Sam Hill since the beginning. The platform is nearly perfect, supper grippy, perfect size and Q factor. The seal quality however is as crappy as it gets, the seals simply don't stay in place. Super frustrating as otherwise the pedals are great

I've tried flats several times over the years and hate them just can't get on with them. Much happier on SPD's

I came to MTB from road and automatically used clipless. Being old and slow and frightened, I went to flats on MTB though I'm quite happy to use clipless on the gravel bike (less gnarr involved). Perhaps a bit of CX would help though trundling around well off the the back of the vets might not be great.

If you like a stiff sole, the 5-10 may well be best. Really grippy and really good shoes.
I've gone to the ride concepts vice mids and they are more flexible and really really comfortable. Not as grippy as the 5-10 but great shoes.
Pedals - another vote for unite co, really good size and very good quality. Had dmr before these which were very good but I'd say these are better.

I usually will ride clips in the summer around the tweed valley np. That day though or those conditions I would switch to flats. Mostly do/did that anyway every winter when I lived in Innerleithen.

If the free rider pro are anything like the regular free rider then float comes after a few months of usage.

I really dislike stiff shoes on flat pedals, it's not reassuring, much prefer to feel the pedal. Less need for stiff shoes on flat pedals as the pedal platform is much larger then it is on SPD. However it might take some time to adapt to pedaling in more flexible shoes than you're used to wearing.

i have the large platform XT. i would have bought wah-wah but none were available. i’m happy with the shimano as they’re larger than most. 5:10 freeride pro are better than the non-pro version.

more grip on the shoes would be my suggestion. while grippy 5;10 are more instinctive/natural to step off the pedal than spd.

Cool kids ride both

I rode SPDs for years, but made the transition to flats when i started focusing on enduro style stuff more than XC, i never succeeded in using flats when doing XC or trail stuff all the time, but learning certain techniques and pushing towards bigger stuff made me see flats as the only option, would feel weird being attached to the bike again, just the whole way you prep going into jumps, drops, etc.

I agree about the 5:10s though, tried a few, always back at 5:10s, noting that they are crap to walk in during winter months, you end up pushing the bike and falling all over the place due to the lack of any real mud grip, pedals wise, i do like the vaults for feel, bit of a nightmare for maintenance though for me, my favourites are RF Atlas pedals, just feel great and spin nicely, plus look great in blue!

Something else to consider, drop your saddle a bawhair when you put the flats on too.

I’ve trialled flats this year and love them for techy stuff and they make sense of a dropper post. I can’t figure out how to unclip to dab with the seat dropped.
Shame the shoes are more concerned with fashion than riding.

Been through a few pairs of flats and really haven't found a pair I dislike.
Currently on DMR V12 Mag. Super light, nice and stable. I'm going to change to shorter pins thought as they are doing unmentionable things to my shoes and shins.

I've mostly ridden SPDs since using toe clips back in the mists of time. I've had a few forays with flats over the years racing DH (very mid pack) or at the Mega but gravitated back to SPDs doing the same races in subsequent years. During the first lockdown I committed time to the Ryan Leach wheelie course and as a result have been on flats exclusively for 18 months however swapped back on a whim for a recent week in Molini and the muscle memory and instinct was all still there. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no harm in giving flats a go (except cost) and then swapping between depending on what you fancy. Loads of good pedals and shoes out there. A set of shoes that can be used for general cutting about will never be wasted.

Was a committed spd user since they came out but swapped to flats for my first Whistler trip. Swapped back and forward for a few years depending on what I was riding. After a couple of years I stopped swapping and stayed on flats.
Like DMR pedals, solidly build and spares readily available. Shoe wise I’d always stuck with 5:10 but newest pair are Specialized DH and I think I prefer them. 5:10 shape seems to have changed over the years and don’t suit me as well.

Picked up the Ryan Leech flat pedal course when it was free and it was great. Helped a lot of the technique click in place. He charges for it now but I’d say it’s worth the money.

Had spd for years right from when they first came out in 89? Then about 10 years ago swapped to flats as I thought every crash I had had was somehow to do with the pedals. First day on flats everything seemed to work. Just rember to push rather than pull.

I’m In the lakes, and being able to dab is always useful. I don’t think you’ll regret it. Superstar and 5.10 are my fave combo. Dmr are the best grip but the bearings don’t seem to last a long time, mag pedals are IMO too soft and can’t handle rock impacts.

Common tips, run the foot further forward. Axle under the midfoot rather than the ball of the foot and drop the heels.

The most important bit of advice in this thread.

Wellgo MG1 pedals are great as a reasonably priced, light, grippy enough flat pedal. They're genuinely light, I've got two pairs that have had many winters of abuse and the bearings are as smooth as silk still.

I also have a pair of Superstar nanos - they're thinner and have a bit bigger platform, but had to have a rebuild after one decent winter...

I think that your thread title is actually very disrespectful to people with actual life changing decisions to make. This is Singletrack, NOT Facebook.

5.10’s and Supersatar Nanos. I dab round the Tweed valley all the time. Nanos even come with two lengths of pins for maximum injury inducing!

FTFY

I think that your thread title is actually very disrespectful to people with actual life changing decisions to make without a sense of humour. This is Singletrack, NOT Facebook.

As a confirmed flatty I can only look with envy at the faster and more gnarr riders who are all clipped in. Are you sure this isn't a regression? If I could ride clips I'd working on my technique to stop dabs, I hardly ever dab with flats, like almost never.
However if you must come down here with the lowly flatties then Shimano flat pedal shoes are excellent. Work brilliantly with nukeproof plastic pedals or the carbon company ones.

I've thought about going back to flats, but i'm too much of a cheapskate.

I can buy a set of good clipless pedals for about the same as a good set of flats, but I hoover up all the expensive clipless shoes people wear once and decide "It's not for me" and sell off at a fraction of the new cost. Once i've worn the pedals and shoes to almost worn out i sell them cheap to someone who would like to try riding clipless but doesn't want to shell out on new stuff until they've tried it first.

@wheelsonfire1 , mate, chill, you'll live longer

I have found shoe/pedal combos can be too grippy. I like to move my foot around.

I went to flats about 10 years ago after riding down Glen Tilt and being very self conscious of being clipped it.

I have two pairs of these (Wellgo B143 Platform Pedals) and they've been faultless. Lightweight, tough, strong, c/w grease port and pretty cheap.

The only times I ride clipless now is on the road, gravel and long distance xc bike.

No regrets.

Tried flats a few years back, couple of things put me off, firstly my feet were always slightly in the wrong place each time I put my foot on the pedal, and it annoyed me, Weirdly I don't do that on my commuter bikes...go figure. And secondly, just a lack of precision and control of what the bike was doing. I'm sure I could've overcome both those issues, but I couldn't be arsed, so went back to clipless.

Another advantage of riding flat pedals over clipless is you're lower (5-10mm) on the bike.

Which is noticable on steep stuff. I even have to lower my saddle (a smidge) when swapping between clipless to flats.

My current flat shoes are Adidas Trail (with Stealth rubber soles) and Shimano GR9 (Michelin soles) Both are good.

@didnthurt curious to know what you think the differences in comfort/grip are between the 2, as those 2 treads are what I'm considering

ride what you have. 5 tens help but any flat soled trainer will do in the dry.

as above I have to lower my saddle an inch when i use flats rather than clips

you`ll get used to your feet being in a different place on teh pedal.

i find stiff soled flat shoes (adidas terrex/510 impact style) feel wierd and i cant ride properly. i cant feel the pedal and I cant tell if my foot is on properly. think its because they feel a bit like my clip shoes and my brain assumes i'm attached when i'm not. its very odd - that said I cut my teeth riding in vans so a flexy sole feels nicer and more what i`m used to - i can feel the pedal and the grip.

I jumped from SPDs to Flats in the spring and hated it for about 3 or 4 weeks until everything clicked, now I wish I had done it sooner!

I have the Ride Concepts Hellion Elite shoes and I have used DMR Vaults (unreliable due to bushings creeping out of the bodies) and HT PA03A pedals.  The HTs have about 95% of the grip the DMRs do, which i think is probably a good thing, I certainly don't want for grip.

Kelvin is right though the axle under midfoot, heels down, "heavy feet light hands" is the most important thing in this whole thread.

You might have "fun" (re)learning to bunny hop...if so this really helped me:

With flats, the pedal provides the stiffness. You don't need a stiff shoe. Stay away from too much sole thickness though.

Was SPDS from 1992-2011. Flats for preference since. Nukeproof and 5.10s for me.

With flats, the pedal provides the stiffness. You don’t need a stiff shoe

Not in my experience. I used to ride in skate shoes, the feel and control was amazing but it was much harder work. 5 10s are a trade-off, at least mine are. Don't ask me what model they are.

Shimano GR9 (Michelin soles)

This is a good all-rounder and would be a sensible choice for starting with flats again.

You could always get some Freerider Pros as your second pair of shoes later on. I have both myself and the 5:10s are better but probably more expensive.

Or treat yourself and just go straight to Freerider Pros, the normal not the Primeblue version (which has an inferior rubber compound).

Maybe try some plastic pedals for starters? I dunno what's hot ATM - maybe Nukeproof?

If a pedal is too grippy for you try taking some pins out. A former big hitter I sometimes ride with only uses 4 pins per side. I always suggest getting used to flats on smooth trails like a pumptrack. That way you can find the best position and fiddle about without worrying about losing grip. And you don't solely ride with your heels down, try riding a pumptrack like that.

 heels down, “heavy feet light hands” is the most important thing in this whole thread.

Advice applies equally to people using SPDs.

It's always an interesting debate this one, and I wonder how useful the change (from SPD to flats and vice versa) actually is. Don't think I'm having a go, or I'm sat on my high horse as I'm as guilty as the next man, I've ridden SPDs for something like 20 years, and I'm used to how they feel, and I learned how to ride with them, I tried flats (perhaps thinking that they'll lead to some MTB nirvana) but all I learned is that like anything else they need just as much learning and acclimatization as anything else, and that having spent a whole bunch of time learning how to ride SPD I wasn't really interested in starting again with flats. Most of these threads end up like that, ie

"Here's all the stuff you'll now need to re-learn to get back to the place you started from while you were on SPDs"

I wonder if actually what you need to do OP is learn to become confident with the system you have now, rather than spend a whole bunch of cash on something that you may find either doesn't result in better technique, or makes other areas worse, or not significantly better.

I had some large composite Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals, nice big platform and very grippy but not durable. Broke one of bits that goes from the end of the axle to the outside of the pedal afer about 6 months, same happened to a mate's too 🙁

Do it, dmr vault/hope pedals and trailcross for me

If your good enough to ride in the EWS series I'm surprised you need advice from us weekend warriors.

happy swinging both ways here. tend to ride clips in the summer, flats in winter.

clipping out to dab is never an issue, getting clipped back in after can be...

burgtec composites work for me.

Adidas Trail are better cosmetically so don't look daft in the pub after a ride or when on a bike packing trip. They're pretty stiff and a touch heavier than the Shimano. The GR9 are brilliant filthy weather shoes as they shed the worst of the grime and dry out pretty quick when wet through.

Pedal grip is slightly better on the Adidas but both (due to the the more aggressive tread to the front and rear of the sole) are decent for hike-a-bike or pushing up in the woods. Neither are super sticky but plenty sticky enough for me.

I like them both but tend to use them for different weather conditions. Adidas for dryer rides and the Shimano for wetter rides.

I prefer the fit of the Shimano (size 44 and normally take a 9 in a shoe), so much so that my road and off-road clipless shoes are all also Shimano.

I like the higher ankle protection inside of the Shimano. I also like the Adidas laces keeper.

Both have lasted well, the Adidas are about 3 year old and the Shimano about 2 year old.

I'd buy either again when they wear out.

Buy what fits best imo.

Used to run DMR V12's but recently switched to Burgtec penthouse flat Mk5.
Frankly they are night and day better as far as grip goes, IMHO.

I’ve tried flats several times over the years and hate them just can’t get on with them. Much happier on SPD’s

Not just me then, mainly because I know my foot will be in the same position every time I clip in. Using Mallet dh pedals and the

Axle under the midfoot rather than the ball of the foot and drop the heels

technique works just as well for me on the odd occasion I feel more confident unclipped with these pedals and Shimano me7 shoes as it does on flats. Last flats I bought were Burgtec composites, for the price I couldn't fault them in any way

Mona WahWah are ace. I use the composite. Better than any other pedal I’ve tried and I’ve tried a lot
Used to put the Crank Bros Mallet DH’s on for decent weather but the Konas are so good that habit may stop.
Of course on real rough terrain you have to “think feet” but flats are definitely more fun.

@kimbers if you fancy it, I've got a set of Nukeproof Horizon composite pedals kicking round in the shed you can have for postage. Same shape/pins as the alloy ones - were on my gravel/commuter bike until my old metal Horizons moved to the gravel bike when I fitted the new Sam Hill Enduro ones early last year.

At least gives you a decent head start as you've only got to think about shoes then 👍

Thanks Andy that's not much ce!
I've already gone & ordered some kona ones tho!

SPDs on the big bike, flats on the HT. Ultimately SPDs are quicker and can allow you to get away with stuff that I couldn’t do on flats, specifically steep, rooty, muddy corners e.g. tweed valley stuff. The trick is to train yourself not to dab, it’s really, REALLY hard at first, but persevere. 99/100 you’ll pull it off and be amazed at what the bike (and rider) can do in terms of grip etc. 1/100 you go down like a sack of shit but I reckon it’s worth it. 😉

Why Flats on the HT? I went 100% SPD and found myself becoming a bit lazy when jumping. I can can actually jump higher and I feel with more control on flats because I trust what’s going on, where with SPD there’s an element of it unclipping, and whilst that rarely happens, it must play on my mind subconsciously.

Anyway, came across this as was looking for new flat pedal recommendations. Vaults it is again…

I rode flats as a youth and bmx (can’t recall anyone riding spd’s or similar on bmx in the eighties), SPDs throughout the 90s, then I started racing bmx again in the 2000’s & went back to flats. I stopped riding BMX in about 2017 but continued on flats on MTB.

I got my new Cotic a few weeks ago & decided to try SPDs again & quickly decided they’re no longer for me. They definitely felt more efficient and on a regular route I was marginally quicker, but I just didn’t feel comfy. I could feel the pressure of the pedal shoe interface and although it didn’t hurt or anything, it just irritated me.

My flat pedal & shoe combo is burgtec penthouse & some 5.10 shoes of some sort. I also have an ageing pair of Shimano flat shoes (am5 or am7..??) with a flap over the laces & a wavey sole, which I prefer over the 5.10 but they’re knackered. I don’t particularly like my 5.10 because they’re too padded and bulky.

nobody else wears old skate shoes with their flat pedals?

i decided last year simply to experiment with flats after only using spds since they first came out decades ago.

i felt there were times when being clipped in was just not required on long remote solo rides were boggy conditions, ice and snow, or simply that cleated shoes weren't as great on big hike sections (which often happens)

now, i tend to swap my pedals around based on mood and conditions. i still love being clipped in but also love the slightly more casual feeling of thrashing around on my flats. its morphing into a pattern of spring summer - spd / autumn winter - flats. i do similar with my tyres.

the only minor issue ive had with flats (completely shoe-related) is that whilst my shimano shoes grip the flats like glue, they are terrible when hiking in mud!

both have merits and downsides, so i pick BOTH!

Well I forgot I had some 510 Impact hi tops from when I broke my ankle 10 years ago, so been riding with those on the Konas wah wahs, which are great as they match my bike!

Climbing Im really impressed not feeling any loss of power

have had to change a bit for descents, I suppose Ive got lazy using clips and have to remember to position and keep them planted on rough descents and drops

https://flic.kr/p/2mKPenj

Big feet, big flats. Shanmashi do some Kona Wah Wah clones. 120*118*21mm loads of colours. Last cheap plastic pedal I used had the pins ripped sideways on a stairset first ride. These have taken some knocks and look fine.

DMR V12s are good pedals, but when you havd big feet, and then get big pedals, you realise what you were missing.

mrdestructo
I'm quite the composite wahwah fan,
which specific Shanmashi pedal please?
120*118*21mm you say
got a link perhaps please?
thx

Nukeproof Horizon Sam Hill Enduro with either Impact Pro or (my new fave) 2FO DH is an awesome combo. The Horizon are asymmetric and actual pit your foot position nicely forward of the axle by default.

I concur. And they look nice, the pedals, can't comment on the shoes.

@mudfish

Shenmashi CVO

https://m.it.aliexpress.com/i/1005001436154620.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite

Hopefully that link works.

Might be sensible to have some threadlock handy. Mine came with the pins in a bag and no Blue on them!

mrdestructo, thanks man, in English here https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005001436154620.html (I think that’s google translate helping ;~}
- bargain, I guess they ship from China anyway
- have you tried the WahWah to compare, I have and like those?
"The allowable measurement error is +/- 1-3cm." wow that’s a hell of a tolerance!
neil

My VPN has the site in Italian still (its set to UK). Personally I buy all my bike stuff on Taobao locally.

I've always used V8s, V12s, or Wellgo MG1s. I tried a Crankbrothers Stamp clone last, but they broke in an impact. This is my second nylon pedal and its doing fine. Not used any other flat pedals for 20 years. I'm just appreciating a stable platform under my giant feet. I can ride better with them.

mate chill you’ll live longer

You say that like it's a good thing.