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I've got a new Lyrik ultimate fork on order with tf tuned, it comes with the latest c1 sping on it. Having read various opinions it does seem as though more people prefer the b1 for being more sensitive/supple. Just after some more opinions really. I spoke to tf tuned who said they'd recommend the b1 over the c1 and that they'll change it over for me foc before sending it out, but then later said they were out of stock and that rockshox have discontinued it.
It'll be my first 'top end' fork, I'm still pretty new to bike setup, will I notice much difference (well, not difference as I won't have anything to compare it to, but will I be missing out?). Is it worth tracking a b1 down, and if so does anyone know where they can be got (need a 150)
tia
Give it a try with the C1 first, I'd suggest.
I went from a Lyrik RC2 (B1) to Lyrik Ultimate (C1), broadly the same fork except for a revised range of compression adjustment and that airspring.
Personally I much prefer the enhanced support provided by the C1 spring, and I didn't notice any downsides at all.
I went from an older lyrik upgraded to the b1 airspring to a newer fork which came with the c1, this was due to change of bikes, but fork wise I have not noticed any differences, similar to you I read too much about it before hand and was considering bringing the older forks over to the new bike, just rode it and its been fine!
Ebike came with a 150mm B1 spring. Initial travel was really plush but unweighted the bike sat at 15% sag. Riding it always felt like it was sitting pretty far in travel. Changed to a 160mm C1 spring and it was the opposite. Fork sat up nicely in travel but was more difficult to get full travel, not as plush either in initial travel. Have now put B1 seal and foot nut on the 160mm spring and it’s much better. Nice and plush while still sitting up a bit more.
All that said, it’d be difficult to tell the difference if you’ve not ridden the other one.
I much prefer the C1, way too much sag, and pressures had to be run really high.
I don't think you sacrifice much if any comfort with the C1, but maintaining a good dynamic ride height and head angle is great if you ride steep.
I’d just ride it and see how it goes. If you find it reluctant to go through the travel or it’s too harsh and it’s not damping related maybe try to track down a b1.
I’ve had a Lyrik with a 140mm b1 and have a new 140mm travel pike ultimate rc2 which I assume is C1 and I prefer the Pike. Just fitted a 150mm C1 to the Lyrik but not tried it yet.
Righto. I'll give it a go then. Probably over thinking it as a result of too much online searching. It does seem to divide opinion though. Hopefully the advantage of going with someone like tf tuned is that they can set it up nicely and do things to it that I don't have a clue to!
Be interested to see how you go with the c1 swap Joe.
If I remember I’ll come back to this after the weekend. Will prob ride the full suss this Sunday as I think my front wheel on the hardtail already needs some attention. The front hub is making a clicking / cracking noise as it spins. Assuming even though it was quite expensive it was fitted with poor bearings or has awful sealing 🤷♂️
I upgraded my Lyrik Select from B1 to C1
It felt horrible at first, took a lot of setting up to get it to feel anything like as good as it was originally.
I have bad arthritis in one shoulder so small bump sensitivity is my priority, and IMO the B1 does that better
B1 for me, have a perfect setup with it. Swapping to the C1, fork felt harsh and struggled to use anywhere full travel. Back to what I knew with the B1.
IMO the C1 is a warranty fix, as people complaining forks arn't showing the correct amount of stanchion, should of made the airshaft 5mm longer and got rid of the stupid markings on the stanchion. Someone at Rockshox ballsed up the calcs and validation.
See, this is what's got me thinking, people seem pretty opinionated on it. Last thing I want to do it spend over £800 on a fork for it to feel harsh!
Anyone know where you can get a b1 spring? Cursory internet browse not fruitful..
One man's harsh is another man's supportive. Or woman, I suppose. The point is that some people like different things.
From my limited reading, it sounds like the C1 rides higher / is more supportive. This probably means it'll be faster. On the other hand, it might lose small-bump compliance. This means it won't feel as good in the car park.
At any rate, it's not a big difference by all accounts.
Last thing I want to do it spend over £800 on a fork for it to feel harsh!
No, the last thing you want to do is buy a new fork and think it's no good because it feels harsh in a car park drop test that has very little relationship with how it'll perform on the trail.
Sidenote: brand new forks always feel a bit harsh until they're bedded in a bit.
It’ll be my first ‘top end’ fork, I’m still pretty new to bike setup, will I notice much difference
No. You're overthinking this. I often obsess about purchases too, but honestly? Get it, ride it, enjoy it and stop reading internet forums.
Like it or not, B1 springs aren't a current part and stock is drying up.
Learning to optimise the C1 needs a few changes.
C1 rides higher. Your bar position is higher. Stack is higher. Reach is shorter. You need to make cockpit adjustments to make a C1 feel close to a B1.
In terms of the air chambers, C1 is barely any different to B1. Yes, the negative is marginally smaller. Yes, there is marginal extra volume in the lowers. The key word is marginal. Seriously, it's marginal. It is the same air shaft. It is the same positive chamber. If you set the same pressure, you get the same support (except marginally (for two marginal reasons)). It feels different (mostly) because the fork lowers are held in a different position relative to the piston and the proximity of the top out stop.
Mostly the comments about support are because we all (individually) suffer pavlovian conditioning regarding sag setup.
The lowers on a B1 fork look to be "deeper in the travel" (compared to where the piston is sitting). So...
...some people pump B1 up harder and get more support 'cos they want less sag
...some people lessen pressure with C1 'cos they want more sag
...you can bottom out a C1 easier (because you put less pressure in it to hit an arbitrary sag expectation)
...you perceive support from the C1, because it is just offset higher in its travel by the longer footnut
Potentially, some of the feel of the B1 is because it has a softer (pneumatic) topout.
Truth is, we're all appalling witnesses and the collective hive mind is a bumbling village idiot. Two little bits of metal (alike, but not entirely the same as the prior bits of metal) have us pondering our navels and contemplating the metaphysical.
Disclosure of my current collection:
Lyrik 170 Solo Air RCT3 (2016), light rebound tune charger 1
Lyrik 160 Solo Air RCT3 (2018) Charger 2
...podiums in 2019 as a 160 B1
...tested as a 160 C1
...now testing as a 170 B1
Lyrik 170 B1 Ultimate (2020) - eMTB - plan is to transfer the C1 kit to this fork
Now there's a lot to chew on!
I accept I may be overthinking this but when putting a significant lump down on something I want to feel like I'm making the right decision.
Just spoke to jtech, they like the b1, no stock of it but say theres an aftermarket product due for release soon to help make the c1 more supple..
No. You’re overthinking this. I often obsess about purchases too, but honestly? Get it, ride it, enjoy it and stop reading internet forums.
I have to agree with this, just ride it and see how you like it.
It is strange that some really don't like it, I can only assume it's accidentally messed up their overall set-up, and that it accidentally improved mine.
But you're coming to it fresh, so my money says you'll have no complaints.
My Lyrik is C1. I'm tempted to try the B1. Although as above, there's not too much difference between them. I just feel that I was a bit more sensitivity on the small stuff.
What's more likely to make a difference on new forks is a lack of oil in the lowers and overly tight bushes. No idea if J-Tech deal with these issues beforehand or not.
If the air spring really isn't supple enough then the only step change difference is a coil spring.
I've used both B1 & C1 air springs in the same forks and I noticed a tiny reduction in small bump sensitivity with the C1, but the the increase in ride height was a greater benefit for me when riding steeper trails.
It's a very good fork whichever air spring is fitted to be honest so not worth losing any sleep over.
Cheers andy and onza. I'm just going to stick with the c1 I think. Getting it from tf tuned actually and they strip them down before sending out apparently so should have the correct oil amount in there.
This is the problem when you have to wait for things, too much time to think!
Just spoke to jtech, they like the b1, no stock of it but say theres an aftermarket product due for release soon to help make the c1 more supple..
Ride the fork with the C1 and when the after market comes out install at 50,100 or 150 hour lower leg service or 200 hour lower leg and charger service, install yourself or get your LBS/mechanic to do it.
2020 Pike Ultimate 130mm 29er,....I absolute hated the C1 upgrade, utter pish, so harsh and could not get a anything like a good set up.
Switched back to the B1 and its a much better fork, if a couple of mm sagged into travel bothers you...get a longer airshaft.
I’ve a lyrik ultimate on my enduro bike, started off with b1 160mm, then had to change the travel so bought the c1 170mm. Both are great, my fork feel nice but it’s the last thing I think about when riding. The forks will feel great I imagine!
If anyone is really desperate I have a b1 160mm shaft spare!
Yeah sure thing @onzadog collectors item now so add a couple zeros 😂😂
Will message you if I can work out how!
Great post from Peaslaker - reflects my views on the matter generally.
I've always overpressured RS forks compared to their pressure chart because they were too divey with the original debonair.
If you do that with the C1 you certainly know about it. My pressures pretty much match what RS advise now.
Point is, run at a 'lower' pressure, the C1 feels pretty much as compliant, but does hold its composure better because it holds its travel better.
Despite having a couple of b1s sat in my spares box, my latest Pike ultimate will be keeping its C1 because, Meh.