[Closed] Longtail cargo bikes: Kona Ute vs Yuba Kombi

Having had a Ute I’d opt for something else. Ute was squirrely, flexy and yes high-loading. Didn’t make sense to me once I’d tried it. Was ignorant of practical cargo-requirements/ design-characteristics before buying. Hindsight is 20/20. Bear in mind to read that others get along with them, but I really can’t see how! Not in anger. I did much better with a (used) Batavus Personal for a 7th of the price, with all security and dynamo lighting extras in the build.

If I was choosing long-tail for rough-roads again, I’d first look at a Yuba Mundo V5. If my carriage requirements were all urban likely would choose something like a Gazelle Cabby or a used bakfiets of some type.

Circe helios?

https://www.circecycles.com/the-school-run-1/

Might be over budget, but you end up wit hhte best bike tha tyou can all ride. The 406 wheels will make it low and stable.

I've got a Mk1 Yuba Mundo and my brother has a current generation Mundo, both great to be honest. He's been carrying his twins on it for 2 years (they are 8 now and still fit on it) he bought the monkey bars,deck,footboards and deck cushion, at the time it came to £1300 or so but it was called the Mundo Classic so I think was on offer (didnt have disc brakes). Its longer than the Kimbo though as its a proper longtail.
There are some cargo bikes on Ebay now and again so might be worth a look.

I had a Yuba Mundo for my three boys, it was fab. Yes, the high centre sometimes required a little thought, but when used to it, there was no real issue. The seats i used were great, and yes expensive. But if you do get a Mundo, let me know, as i no have no need for the two seats currently sitting in the shed, Make me an offer. They're a little dusty and the bum pad will no doubt be goosed, but the seats work very well to clamp onto the rack of the Mundo and probably most other 'in built cargo racks'

I’m looking into this for,my next c2w. From my research so far via c2w options appear to be a KONA ute, surly big dummy or tern node cargo

in fact.... these are the seats i have.

pollisport bilby

silly image linking.... tsk tsk

Keep an eye on eBay and gumtree, you can pick up a used bike with all the accessories, and within budget

My advice is to do it, I have a Big Dummy and it’s ace! Sometimes come up in budget

I bought a kona minute which is a shorter ute. There was a company on Etsy iirc doing accessories for it. My 5 yr old sits on the deck feet on some bmx stunt pegs that bolt on to a couple of places and she holds onto A cut down mtb bar on a stem attached to the seatpost. My 1 yr old goes in a thule chariot behind. The minute has smaller panniers that still fit in this config.

Without the chariot it’s great for popping to work or to the shops and in the summer I pick up the 5 yr old from school on it. I would feel more comfortable with the monkey bars but I tend to stay off the roads on it.

Edinburgh to Copenhagen in 6 days. Mad...

http://theadventuresyndicate.com/blog/2020/1/16/resolution-race?fbclid=IwAR2E2kYvZyp6lJ8yPI0xUqMNOCQcYtc9SII08HNSKY2nHm3aRWRJ7rO2YgI

(they are 8 now and still fit on it

Admirable, but mine were pedalling the kiddyback tandem at 4yo and the eldest completed London to Oxford at 6yo. I’d be buying something where they can provide propulsion as they get older, personally. The circe is a great option which wasn’t available when I bought my Dawes.

My kiddyback provides the most smiles per mile of any bike I’ve owned.

Thanks for replies all.

Cargo bike eg the bakfiets or a gazelle caddy isn't really an option for me as I don't think I could get one around the side entrance to my back yard, plus they are about 40kg which is going to hurt on the hill up to work after kiddie drop off.

Helios is an interesting option, perhaps price dependent. Hadn't come across it at all..

Yuba Kombi looking most likely new option. A bit put off by the complete lack of any kind of review for the Kombi with it being a new model. Mundo classic is being discontinued, but can get a frameset for £999. Or the whole bike for a Mundo Lux for £1800, but then into well over £2k territory when accessories added. @Lardman I will message you in the event I buy one.

Currently getting by walking the eldest and wheeling my CX bike along with the wee 'un in the rear seat so may just continue that and monitor Ebay/gumtree for a while. There is a Big Dummy not too far from me..

I have a Kona minute. It has been the best bike for generally everything I have ever had. To the point that a lot of other bikes have come and gone in th3 7 years I have had it. It’s set up with a single hamax on the rear rack that slides on and off when needed to move a child. I use a tubus Tara front rack to carry stuff when moving kids about and a rack top pack when the seat is off. I use it everyday. Light and nimble.

Tern Cargo Node Xtracycle (fully kitted-out with hub generator and cargo bags) reduced here link

From here it seems a steal for the spec. Just add some (used?) Yepp seats. Plus, smaller wheels make infinitely more sense for urban cargo and kid-carriage.

I'm a big fan of my Kona Ute..in fact, it's probably my mostest favourite bike purely for 'all it encompasses'!
Yeah, i get it's a bit noodly at times, but when it's just ME on it, i appreciate the 700c wheels for their speed and rolling.

Use it for carrying all sorts..kids, shopping, boxes etc etc!
I made some wheel skirts, and STILL need to sort out foot pegs..

Here I am carrying 2 9 years olds and a 5 year old...one of them DID fall off the back, but hey ho!

And taking both my kids bikes from one place to another!

DrP

I have a bakfiets type bike which i made, my twins are now three and id say the perfect age for longtail bike.
Ive heard good things about yuba bikes and xtracycle.
If you’re anywhere near Plymouth you’re welcome to try mine to check options

I had a Ute and loved the cargo ability but for transporting children there are better options - big dummy or the xtracycle

I'm also watching this. Currently do the school run using a Burley trailer. Not sure to do when daughter is too big for it.

It's only one mile and all downhill (I don't do the pickup) so I don't want to spend a fortune.
I would like a solution that can also carry/tow her bike for long family rides.

Mick

I haven’t ridden the ute or Yuba but love my big dummy - a true utility bike for life. We also have a Bakfeits but the BD is a proper bike.

No.2 has been riding on a Yepp on the handlebars but it is difficult to get your leg over the cross bar with front and rear seats. Hardly used Yepps come up on flea bay half rrp all the time and bolt straight on to the deck( there are 2 versions make sure you get the right one).I have started looking but No.1 likes sitting on the deck so may buy a ludicrously expensive Surly Dec pad instead.

We also have a Bakfeits but the BD is a proper bike.

Surely they’re both ‘proper’ bikes, but the BD is more of a mountain bike with a long tail on it... so a jack of all off-road load-lugging (albeit minus an electric motor) yet no ‘master’ of anything urban/city?

There are better ‘proper’ urban utility bikes by far, including ones that allow you to mount and dismount effortlessly when fully loaded 😉

MR you are of course correct. When I say proper bike, I meant one that I could load up with camping gear and go on an adventure with daughter No. 1 rather than the reality of looking after two kids whilst i pop to screwfix! Could your proper urban utility bike cope with 2 x 25kg bags of tile adhesive?

Could your proper urban utility bike cope with 2 x 25kg bags of tile adhesive?

Pfffft, you bring the cement, I’ll bring the wall 😉

(Seriously, your feat is impressive! Would your bakfiets handle 50kg?)

The bakfiets could easily - I couldn't ! I think this is the reason I don't regard the bakfiets as a proper bike, I wouldn't enjoy an all day bike ride on it (despite its many advantages). The BD (even with a trailer) no probs and have done many times (slow but so much fun with the kids). I think it may be the range of gearing or lack of, An e conversion would probably be the game changer.

I think it may be the range of gearing or lack of, An e conversion would probably be the game changer.

Gearing has a lot do do with it. For urban riding especially for utility I much prefer the easy-gliding ride and frame-design of my Batavus Personal than the longtail (Ute) I sold. I did have to change the sprocket and chainring to get up these hills. Now can winch a shedload or as much as my legs can manage. All day riding in town and towpaths is remarkably easy, if leisurely-paced.

Offroad would be a different story and I think the BD makes sense there. In town if I instead needed the extra capacity of a heavy duty longtail for whatever reason I’d probably go with an 8freight. Money no object - then a GSD!

Think I've had 50kg on the back of my dummy. Both children come in at around 40kg plus the silly heavy locks I carry. It's rated to 90kg I think.

@Jaminb your yepp seat looks really high in those pictures. Are you using an adaptor bolted to the deck? Mine is much lower than that (xtracycle deck).

Those thinking about it other than cost a long tail is a great choice for hauling kids (and cargo often as well). Mine fortunately is cost neutral now as without it I'd need a city centre parking permit at £1200 per year! Both daughters love going on it. It's also great for dragging them and their bikes to a safer place to ride at the weekends.

despite really wanting a surly I will prob end up with a ute due to c2w lkmits. it seems there are lots of negative comments about them bring flexy. any ridden a 2020 with 650 wheels?

those with monkey bars what age are your kids using them instead of a proper seat? and anyone know what ones fit a ute? do the adjustable yuba ones fit?

^

Not ridden one, but 650b shouldn’t make too much difference especially if you run a higher volume tire it would be negligible or even the same. The design is poorly thought-out for cargo compared to so many others, ie Yuba, Edgerunner, Tern Node Cargo Xtracycle etc. There are also no options on the Ute for siderails/Xtracycle monkey-bars etc gubbins to help kids feel safe nor support side-luggage from below. The Kona bags flapped side to side, and when loaded heavily they just hang and can foul the gears as they hang at hub-height and lower when loaded/bulging.

Then the rear frame-flex and front-wheel shimmy made it more interesting. It blows my mind that Kona simply switched to 650b rather than make a sensible design change and make a 20/26 or similar. The Trek Transport+ makes a similar mistake (seems they copied the Ute to a degree) but at least Trek specced 26” with some decent-looking fold-down racks.

Here’s a Kona Ute user trying to ‘fix’ their bike by to carry kids lower-down, by making it a 26er - the comments are darkly amusing, but I genuinely feel sorry for them:

https://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cycling/1054562-concerned-about-safety-55lbs-babies-kona-ute.html

Appreciate that other’s Ute mileage may vary, but my disappointment was costly to me so I let it be known straight!

Go compare:

Proper cargo bike

Silly cargo-a-like

I’d instead be looking at a Tern Node Cargo Xtracycle for C2W?, especially at discounted price as mentioned upthread. tbh I really felt sucked in by Kona (as a mountain biker who knew nothing about cargo-/utility-biking, so I suppose I chose what looked like a 29er/mountain bike with a skate deck on the back, cool! Still, I only lost a few hundred quid selling it on 🙄)

Also maybe look at converting an old bike for cargo with an Xtracycle longtail kit? Check compatibility for the dropouts first, as I got caught out after buying the kit and couldn’t make it fit!

thanks for your views on the kona.

there seem to be several warning threads online about the tern frame snapping which has put me off alot.

xtracycle kit does not appear to be for sale in the uk. unless you know where? I'm not up for faffing about with importing and charges especially with gbp on its knees.

so that leaves a surly....but they are 2.5k 🙁 way over budget and the accessories are bloody expensive too

Hi
Do small wheels really aid stability?
The BB is the same height on all bikes within reason so that sets the bar and seat height?
Is the point that if the kids are loaded over the rear wheel then their CofG is lower? If so, then of course small wheels will aid loaded stability.
Like the old small front wheel bakers bike I guess. Nice those.

Interesting thread. Always liked cargo bikes like the “Long John”?
Neil

there seem to be several warning threads online about the tern frame snapping which has put me off alot.

Yikes. Count me out of Tern folders too.

Can’t you get anything Yuba?

DT78 you maybe able to get a frame set for a lot less than that, and on c2w. Accessories do come do second hand. You just need to be a little lucky. 26" bits to build up are cheap. There is nothing fancy about the OEM full bike kit, I'd have gone frame only if I'd had the time and would have ended up with a better bike for less.

Yuba have a European website and there is a company in Dorset that sells them, kids and family cycles I think they are called. They quoted me for the kombi.

That’s useful info, https://kidsandfamilycycles.co.uk/Yuba-Mundo-Classic.html localish to me too down in Christchurch.

No mention of c2w though.

Nixie, possibly frameset is am option. I’ll have a donor 26 it will be replacing. Limiting factor will be finding someone who will take a Halfords c2w voucher for a surly frameset. Then it looks like the accessories required will add another 600.

For young kids I'd just get a Burley trailer. My kids loved it.

No mention of c2w though.

Not an endorsement, but a Google of C2W and Yuba and this place came up

https://www.leftfieldbikes.com/shop/recreation/yuba-kombi/

We had a Ute till the boys outgrew it.
It is the one bike I really regret selling. I never found it overly flexy, even giving the Wife’s girl friends drunken backies around the park.
If it’s for ferrying kids to Nursery or School it’s perfect. Some of these cargo bikes are great if you want a true car replacement (& the de-rigeur trip to the tip), but try getting a bakfiets on the train..,!!!
If you just need something for commuting it’s great.

@Jaminb your yepp seat looks really high in those pictures. Are you using an adaptor bolted to the deck? Mine is much lower than that (xtracycle deck).

Nixie I just bolted the yepp base plate to the deck plate - it looks similar to those in MR's example of a silly cargo bike. Could you post a pic of yours so I can see if I have ballsed up.

MR i have to agree that does look a very sensible set up for carry kids

 

To pimp the bakfiets option again, the basket on the gazelle folds up to get it through narrow gaps, but it really isnt that wide, goes through the pedestrian door at the back of my garage unfolded with room to spare. I lug a 1+3 year old combo on mine and a bakfiets cargo bike really is the best tool for the job. With the rain cover on (I leave it on sept to April) they stay warm and dry the whole time, with a selection of toys and books in the basket to keep them occupied on longer rides.

Yes its slow, the brakes aren't great, but for the money I cant think of a better option

@jaminb It's the different deck I'm using. I don't have a side on picture with the seat fitted however found this one that shows the deck. The seat fits into the deck without the bolt on adaptor plate which means it sits lower. I spotted it as the foot rests on mine are much further into the pannier bags.

[img] [/img]

As someone said above, anyone considering the Cargo Node might want to have a read of the last 100 or so posts of this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/1061112-expanded-tern-recall-14.html

TiRed "Admirable, but mine were pedalling the kiddyback tandem at 4yo and the eldest completed London to Oxford at 6yo"

Sorry TiRed I thought the OP wanted advice and experience about cargo bikes, but it's obviously a oneupmanship exercise in who's children can ride the furthest at the youngest age. Hey Ho whatever floats your boat I suppose.

I've seen somewhere a tandem converted to cargo use, might be worth a look as you'll be able to convert it back and pull a trailer with it?

(edited to add quote)

had an Urban arrow, which was amazing, but the OH wouldn't ride it. It was quite the yacht.

replaced it with a second hand Yuba El mundo which is great.
Its a heavy thing, but with the electric assist it whips along, and its not so heavy your stuffed if you get a flat battery.
Bit annoying to have to have pannier to use it as a shopping trolley. The UA you could just throw bags for life in it and go. I would get a Bullit next i think. Backfiets, but much less of a tank than the UA

I’ve seen somewhere a tandem converted to cargo use, might be worth a look as you’ll be able to convert it back and pull a trailer with it?

Yes I linked to it - Circe. My point was why limit yourself to a cargo bike, when a tandem will provide a better long-term investment with which you can enjoy cycling with your children as they grow. I bought a kiddyback as soon as my eldest was 4. It's still in use in the family 18 years later to travel with my nieces.

If you are travelling by bike with 8 year olds, a cargo bike is not the solution.

I think your passive agresive statement speaks for itself. If you have children who are both able and like cycliung then yes maybe a tandem is the best solution. If that's not the case then a cargo bike makes a lot of sense, I've not told you why my nieces are on the cargo bike at that age and you didn't ask before telling me how wonderful your own children are at cycling in comparison. The OP also has no idea whether his children will enjoy cycling in the future.
Personally I think a cargo bike is a great idea (and a tandem later on) as it has a multitude of use's.

I think your passive agresive statement speaks for itself. If you have children who are both able and like cycliung then yes maybe a tandem is the best solution.

Wasn't meant as such. BTW are you familiar with Charlotte's Tandems? You don't have to be able or like cycling. If the Circe was available when mine were born, I'd have bought it in a heartbeat. The conversion from cargo to tandem is excellent. But from age 4 onwards children can ride a kiddyback tandem and there are some great options available now. We started with a baby seat on the back of the tandem, and then added a tagalong when the youngest grew. It's still in use on the school run.

Ah fair enough TiRed, I'm having a shit day ( humans are quite annoying) and its not your fault 🙂 (unless your one of the humans thats been in to annoy me today)
I have a mate who's used Charlotte's Tandems in the past. I have a Tandem of my own so it's not something we've looked into other than on his behalf.
I think my brothers plan is to try a triplet at some point and see how that goes, as it is the cargo bike gets used daily and the twins love it (and my brother gets more exercise as he works from home)

^ wow had forgotten all about the Circe Helios. Superb and well-designed looking bike

I think my brothers plan is to try a triplet at some point

I did consider the Thorn triplet, but decided that ultimately a tag-along plus kiddyback was a better option (I had the Burley rack mount one). This proved more flexible as the kids grew up. the older one wanted to ride his own bike more. I rode the Anythony Nolan Cotswold ride a few times on the tandem/tagalong. Oh my god it was hard on the hills! Mine are three years apart. For twins, I think the triplet make more sense (you can make the Circe a triplet or go Bike Friday)

If you like the Helios, then you'll like the Morpheus 🙂 . I always wanted a Bilenky Counterpoint Opus, lighter and faster than a Haze Pino, but I think Circe really have nailed it with kid transport.

I'm not anti-cargo btw, I love the Bakfiets for example, but I think that people often hesitate on the bike purchase and then time passes and the "window of justification" closes. My advice is just buy it - it will become the most ridden bike with young kids. Bakfiets or Circe from about three months and go from there.

yeah that Circe is lovely, I also saw a converted "conventional" tandem, longer rack and big bags type of thing, dunno if it would be strong enough to carry two child seats though, i'll see if I can dig it up

Take your pick

My youngest (just turned 7) has cerebal palsy and goes along fine on a Burley Tag Along. I quite fancy a tandem to drag him and his older brother (9 but not massive keen on cycling) on some epic rides!

EDIT my youngest has mild to moderate CP and is pretty able and active, just weaker on his left side.

My original plan was a Tern GSD, just looks like a super practical bike. But they’re expensive, and while I was mulling it over a Big Dummy came up that and I’ve always wanted one. So that’s now what I have

I don’t have the big cage/frame around the top as having to lift the kids over that, or them having to climb over it, didn’t sound appealing

I have the Xtracycle rear deck, plus the panniers (which are excellent), plus stoker bars for rear passengers. I have the a baby seat ready to fit on for my youngest (actually have two, but both slightly different) but my older two just sit there. They LOVE it, annoyingly they’ve named the bike Colin, so Colin now takes us on all our local errands. They’ve also dropped their friends home from local things. I’ve had tons of interesting conversations with strangers about the bike, generates lots of interest

The accessories are important - mudguards, proper double leg stand, steering stabiliser to stop the flop when parked on the stand, panniers, lights etc. I use it instead of a 2nd car. Does kids runs and shopping. Did a big charity shop run on Saturday. It’s ace!

Have had a Kona Ute for years and used it mostly for shopping and as a child carrier. I sold the single long pannier and bought a pair of big sling over panniers as these fit easily in a shopping trolley and can be fitted quickly, even with a child on board. It's currently set up with a stoker bar, padded seat with backrest for a child up to about 5' tall / age 10, complete with BMX stunt pegs. Could carry both children no bother when they were younger. I live in a new town with lots of shared use paths and really enjoyed the social aspect of tootling along together.

Took it on Center Parcs type holidays a few times as well. Fits fine on an Avenir Roma tandem rack and even with various child carrying mods, still weighs under 50lbs. 700 x 47mm trekking tyres are fine for forestry roads too. Also used it when doing Pedal for Scotland in case the wife (a non-cyclist) bailed and needed a backie to Edinburgh.

Plus points. It's just a LWB hybrid so parts are standard except for the longer rear cables and chain. Cheaper to buy and run than most cargo bikes. The riding position is dead comfy and controls are entirely normal. Kids are tucked in behind you out of the weather. It's very light for a cargo bike and rides like any other hybrid when unladen. Fits through kissing gates on Sustrans / NCN routes. Easy to store in a narrow hut or standard bike rack. Steering stabiliser to stop flip flopping.

Minus Points. It is tall and narrow! Care is needed when moving off with passengers due to the height they are sitting at. Fine once moving (and it does put their vital organs well above bumper height if the worst happens!) but it isn't as stable as a bakfiets design at very slow speed. The centre stand is also quite narrow, you need to keep hold of the bike when loading a child! It gets noodly when stamping on the pedals (cruises well though). Avid BB5 brakes are fine on the flat but wouldn't cope on a long downhill with dad +2 kids on board.

It's been great fun but the 'weans' are 17 & 13 (both 5' 9") now so it is gathering dust!

Would recommend a cargo bike to anyone who has the storage space and safe infrastructure to use it.

benp1 makes a good point about the cage. Even with the big double kickstand its not stable enough for the kids to climb in themselves. I have to lift them in. Not so bad for the 3yo at 15kg but the 8yo is hard work.

Just remember, the reason your kids don't like going on the bike with you may not be what you think...

I forgot to mention something that I really value, U tubes (or whatever they're called). They a parallel to the ground and plug into the sides to create footboards. It makes it a helluva lot easier for the kids to get on and off, and they also then have somewhere to put their feet. It makes it wider but it just fits through the chicane style gate on the cut through near me, allows me to ride a safer, quieter through the park with the kids. The other benefit is being able to get those steel tubes to carry the weight of the shopping etc, get the weight lower down and then the extracycle panniers stop the stuff from falling off

I can get a whole shallow shopping trolley in the panniers alone allowing me to take a passenger (with their feet placed delicately around the shopping). I could get a deep one on if I had a way of rigging box on the top but CBA. Personal best is 3 children home from a playdate, could barely hear over the laughter, giggles and screams of joy. Will cherish those memories!

Another one I forgot about... I can carry someone and "bag and drag" one (or two I suppose) bikes. I went to the London Freecycle and was able to help my daughter get around when she got tired.

Is it obvious that I'm a huge advocate? The main downside is weight, it's blooming heavy (and mine has a draggy hub gear). Planning to electrify mine at some point, plus is 7 ft long so takes up a lot of space in the garage