Give me a reason to buy this over a Chameleon. It's a touch heavier, and I don't see frame compliance being anything once fatter tyres are in there... but that black is puuuuurdy...
Which is a better all rounder (as in trail, XC .. have a tripster for camping) would the collective say?
from my uni days, aluminium spends 95% of its life in fatigue... **** that! 😂
do you want a bike that was designed to be ridden in California or the uk?
Looks great. I’d buy one.
I'm looking at this or a P7 29er frame. P7 is a bit cheaper and has the right size seat tube for my dropper! Solaris frame is 4.9 pounds, but I can't find the weight for the P7 frame. Anyone know?
I considered the P7 too, but it's more expensive once you pick the colour want, it's made from Reynolds 525 and the geometry is pretty conservative (also measured unsagged). Plus no frame weight. I'll be selling my dropper to get the right size too, but it's a good excuse to get a 150-170mm seatpost and take advantage of that low seat tube/standover height.
For me it came down to the Solaris or the Chameleon...
The Chameleon is a little lighter, and reviewers say it is not harsh riding. It has adjustable dropouts for changing the chainstay length or running singlespeed. It uses a 'drop in' type headset, which I'm not a big fan of.
The Solaris comes in three colours, includes a seatpost clamp (and chainstay protector?), and has a slightly slacker head angle.
I prefer the colour options of the Solaris. I've always wanted a Cotic, whereas SC have been a bit more hit and miss. The company and the guys behind it sound cool. So in the end I've ordered a Solaris.
Heres some thoughts on the Solaris Max and the Chameleon. I’ve had both. I know the new Long Shot version is longer geo and has a tougher down tube but I’m guessing it will feel very similar to the 2017 Solaris Max.
Having ridden both bikes I can say that they are both great and you wouldn’t be disappointed in either. The new Long Shot geo looks very similar to the Chameleons. I rode a large Solaris Max with a 60mm stem and now have a XL Chameleon with a 35mm stem. The Chameleon is still a bit longer but Cy is right about the 35mm stem improving the handling.
Both bikes feel quite similar on the trail, the solaris feels slightly softer but has more zing in its spring. If you drop the hammer on dry trails it just takes off like a rocket. The Chameleon is very forgiving and you could almost forget it is an aluminium frame. However, the lateral stiffness is better than the cotics which feels more stable overall but slightly less alive. On balance I prefered the feel of the cotic with 29er wheels and the SC with 27.5+. I rode both frames with the two different wheel sizes.
Another thing worth thinking about if you are choosing between these two bikes is the type of riding you like to do. If you keep your wheels on the ground and don’t do a lot of drop offs then the Solaris could be a good choice and It also climbs the best.
Where as, the Chameleon is easier to jump off stuff on because it has a shorter rear end. I noticed this a lot when I switched from a Sonder Transmitter with shortish stays to the Solaris with longer ones. The usual jumps and drop offs of my local trails felt different and less controlled with the longer Cotic. Moving to the Chameleon, with short stays again, made negotiating the same trail features feel more controlled.
I remember riding the flat twisty, bermy bit in the middle of Swinley on the Solaris and it felt vague. I did the same section 4 weeks latter on the Chameleon with the same exact parts except for a 35mm stem not a 60mm. I was amazed at how the Chameleon railed through the corners and how much control I had.
I don’t think I could recommend one frame over the other, they are both excellent. For my style of riding and my body shape the Chameleon is better for me but its not a better bike. Hope that makes some sort of sense.
@ TheGhost great insight into both bikes, nice to hear real life experience over a one sided opinion
@metalheart - did you get a heads-up yet on shipping day for the first batch of frames? Cotic site mentions they ship on a Thursday for Friday delivery, was wondering if they got dispatched yesterday.
great insight into both bikes, nice to hear real life experience over a one sided opinion
But, of course, neither of those bikes are the NEW SolarisMAX in question… the changes aren't just new pretty paint jobs! I've not ridden the new one yet… dying to have a go… change in handling on the new BFe, Rocket and FlareMAX is pretty major… looking forward to seeing what this new beasty is like.
@nearabighill: Bit of a snafu with mine so its not shipping until today. I was gutted when I found out.
presume the others went ok though.
@theghost: The new SolarisMAX better be different! There are a couple of things that I expect to be improved: Handling and climbing. The proof of the pudding however.... next week, next week....
@TheGhost, helpful - I thin the new Max is going beyond the Chameleon geo though, which is where my debate is - 90% I'm a chlk downs and singletrack type rider and I'm not sure which sits better - it is looking like the new Solaris may have reversed your overall conclusion though with the changes, so the Cham may be more XC than the cotic now.
Don't think I'd be wrong with either, and had the lower weight shading it for the Chameleon - now I'm seeing several posts about cracks around the swapouts on Facebook, same issue with one for sale on EBay etc.
I’m a chalk downs and singletrack kind of guy too. I own a Solaris in chubby mode. It’s an amazing bike.
i also test rode a new flaremax. The new geo is amazing. To the point where I think I may just swap out the the components on my existing Solaris to the new Solaris Max. Possibly the perfect hardtail. I want a flaremax too but annoyingly bought a new fs bike last year for the first time in a decade. May have to squeeze more than 12 months out of it before upgrading.
i wouldn’t be concerned about the slightly heavier weight of the Solaris over the SC. Some of my fastest climb times are on the Solaris which is 3lbs heavier than my race HT.
Geo is size dependant. The xl Chameleon reach is still longer than the large Solaris. These two are closer than comparing xl to xl due to the SC being crazy low. As these are the size frames that fit me I’ve only really looked at their numbers other sizes might differ. The new Solaris has a 1.5 degree slacker head angle. As I am running 140mm forks, the Chameleon feels slack enough but I’d love to see what it would be like 1.5 degrees slacker. My Sonder transmitter had a 65 degree head angle and it felt a bit floppy at low speeds. It was good downhill at speed.
SC have a lifetime warranty on the frames so if the dropouts crack hopefully they will honour it. I saw one on the web that had cracked because the bolts hadn’t been tightened correctly. Hope it’s not a thing.
I’m loving the sparkly black Solaris frame, if only they had made the stays shorter then I’d be keen. As I understand it, you have to add even considerable weight to a steel frame if you bend the seat tube to make room for shorter stays. So its a trade off, handling vs weight.
I’ll probably still buy one but it will be the next version with the super boost back end. 🙂
I really like the dark metal , would look lovely with hope orange bits but I still get drawn to the Stanton Sherpa in green. For me everything will be on hold till wife sorted with her spine. Or take the plunge and hang a frame in the shed? Decisions ??
I’ll have a green Sherpa in large going spare shortly...
Is it the next gen, as in anticipation of things improving at home I grabbed a set of Fox boost forks and a nice set of Hope orange boost hubs ( just for the parts bin as you do 😀)
Is it the next gen
yup. 142 rear. always found it a bit short (hence the LS SMAX)
I thought the next gen was boost 148x12
I'm bang average, so would be medium on either - already have some Boost Fox 34s for the front @ 130mm so just worried the Solaris might be too slack - theres maybe 1 or 2 routes around here I'd call steep. I'm edging in Solaris direction though, as I've loved every Soul / Solaris I've seen or begged a test on. Do like that Cosmic Black too.
Mccraque, yeah fair point on weight, but its one of those things its easy to get hung up about when pondering rather than riding.
Theghost
Who told you bent seat tubes add lots of weight? Mandrel bending an externally butted tube is perfectly feasible, and most of the tube makers offer a few pre-bent butted tubes.
I'm happy with a 27.2 post, so bend plain gauge 28.6 tubes which work out pretty much the same weight as oversize butted anyway.
Actually bending some tubes tomorrow - had a slightly surreal shop today buying bentonite clay kitty litter and a £10 food blender - making home brew foundry sand to pack tube with when bending 🙂
Cy has been pretty up front about preferring the longer stays to balance the longer front end. As he says, if you want a shorter rear, there are plenty of other manufacturers offering that.
I think it's the chainstay yoke required for tyre clearance that would usually add weight on a steel frame with short stays. There isn't space for tubes, and plate is heavy.
In my head I like short stays, but my Scandal has 440mm stays and that's lovely, so I really am very keen to get my leg over a Solaris.
Arse, just realised, it’s a bank holiday weekend. That means no Monday deliveries.
Now I understands cy’s delivery next week sometime comment....
bugger!
It was Cy himself who mentioned the extra weight on the PinkBike comments section after someone else asked why the long stays.
I’ve had 4 Cotics over the years and they have all been brilliant. I loved the last Solaris Max and the new one looks even better. I wouldn’t mind trading extra weight for easier cornering.
I’ve had a Mk1 (the ex-demo one Cy convinced me to try when I was demoing a 26in Rocket), the last gen I bought for my daughter but I’ve ridden it loads more, and I’m having one of the new ones.
My last one was a ‘M’ which was a bit small for me at 5ft11 but that didn’t stop me having loads of fun, mostly in the local woods on two hour summer evening rides. I’m very excited about the longshot- a L one of those with my Fox 34s 130 and borrowing the 42mm rimmed chubby tyres is going to be fab. Then I’ll run it 29 with some chunky rubber for winter.
What’s the deal with the head tube? Is that fat enough for tapered and the external headset bottom makes it all fit?
have gas lots of straight 1 1/8 abdxa few tapered headlines, not seen this setup before?
I wish they would be put up some more realistic photos on the website. They all look a bit filtered/ photoshopped.
Agree some of those nice 360 degree rotational pics that you can zoom in on each part of the bike for a better view would be nice
Well, it’s arrived.
just got to build it now.
pity I won’t get access to a bike stand until the weekend 😬
How does this compare to a Stooge? Unsure whether to upgrade to a mk3 stooge with a bouncy fork from my current rigid mk2 or one of these.
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Once again, Cotic quoting sagged geometry whilst almost everyone else quotes static geometry, is causing confusion.
The reach on the SolarisMAX is about the same, size for size, as the Chameleon. The head angle is getting on for three degrees slacker - a HUGE difference. And the chainstays are about 15mm longer.
I think they look great - much nicer than the current Soul. Would love to know how they ride. Think Cosmic Black and Dark Metal look stunning.
Yes Metalheart! Looks awesome.
Love the colour even more. Glad I went for it. Cotic need to get some natural shots.
Orange bits and other upgrades have started arriving. It’s going to be a long wait.
Whats your build?
Something i’m not clear on is whether they have ISCG tabs. All three colours on the site show them, but no mention of it in the description and can’t see it in MH’s photos.
That is making me feel more confident in my own choice of colour... 🙂
Did you say ISCG tabs?
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1730/42437465511_13d31228ca_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1730/42437465511_13d31228ca_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/27E46ZR ]Large dark metal SolarisMAX Mk4[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr
Love it.
It doesn't come with bottle cage bolts then.
Came with 4 bottle cage bolts, 2 sets of them cable U clips and some bottle mount bolt cable guides. Along with the chain stay protector in a separate bag.
cotic believe in ‘everything you need is included’ iirc.
That's what I initially thought, so thanks for the confirmation.
Getting excited already, but have 3 more weeks to wait!
aaaaaaaaaand I'm spent. My last feeble objection is that the seat stays might not be thin enough (my eldest has a small Duster that just looks like the perfect steel hardtail) but more photos have shown that to be incorrect.
Cosmic black it is then(with some gold thrown into the component mix), but that dark metal looks dirty. Am I correct in assuming the stem should be slammed for function rather than fashion? Likely to pick up the Cotic stem and bars as I'm starting from scratch again unless anyone has a better pair for similar pricing?
“Am I correct in assuming the stem should be slammed for function rather than fashion?“
Depends on how long your legs are and how upright you like to have your back. I’ve found I ride better with my bars relatively high, even though I get quite low because my legs are long so my hip hinge point is fairly high.
All good points, but was just wondering if overall stack height was important to getting the right feel on longshot geo / other stretched & slack bikes... wouldn't like to stick 3 spacers 'just in case' if its missing the point 🙂
I run 20mm of spacers undr a 23mm rise bar on a Geometron, so not necessarily. It's personal taste, once you have enough weight on the front tyre that you're cornering OK
Put the spacers on, move 'em about to see what works best. Keep enough steerer to allow this… you can always cut again later, once you're sure of your setup.
That 'dark metal' finish looks a lot better in Metalheart's photos than it does on the website.
Keep the photos coming Mr Metalheart.
Also rather excited by the Dark metal as I have just committed myself to one 🙂
Whilst I'm gathering bits up, anyone know what ISCG mount it is? Assuming ISCG 05, inline with their other frames.
Thinking of getting a OneUp chainguide.
ISCG05, yes.
I'll add that info to the product page, thanks.
As for photos… yeah, current "studio" ones on product page were a bit rushed. Some outdoor photos are needed really, aren't they. Hopefully we'll get a chance to update them at some point. All three colours look amazing in the metal… still haven't decided which to have myself.
Do you get to have one of each bike, kelvin? For "research"?
Photographing metal(lic) paint finishes is a difficult task.
im happy with (Richards?) studio shots, they convey accurately enough the colour of mine anyway. It changes with the light intensity, so it’s not static.
some ‘in the wild’ photos would be a welcome addition to the website though.
for the record, mine are also processed before posting...
good news: I picked up a bike stand from that there scotroutes. He’s a good sort (for a short feller....🤣 )
bad news: yeller warning for rain tomorrow and Saturday... and I won’t get to a steerer cutter/sfn insertion tool until Saturday neither.
I have a hacksaw and a SFN tool but not good enough for you, eh?
I have <i>some</i> standards...
sandy has a park steerer cutting guide so thought I might as well do it properly for a change. Which means that that won’t get done until tomorrow.
plus, thought you were working this weekend.
Right, I had a bit of a mare with the build. It’s been knocking on 6 years since I last built a bike (the mk1green Solaris as it happens) so I was more than a little rusty. Cant recall if I’ve ever cut a steerer tube before but needless to say it took me about 30-45 minutes before I committed....
things just just took longer than expected and I ended up with the dropper post still to cable upthis morning.
and then I managed to completely knacker the front brake pistons (added an adaptor you don’t need on the mcqueens) and had an emergency visit to Bothy Bikes in Aviemore to buy a new one. Being a bit of disc brake novice I need some assistance in cutting the hose and bleeding. However Bothy Bikes were complete ****ing stars, let me use their work stand and gave me instruction and assistance. And all with me being known to them, but not really exactly what I’d call a customer. So above and beyond the call of duty and saved the day. Thanks guys!
so it was after three before I managed to venture out.
i can’t really give much of a write up as a) I was a bit frazzled after the build and b) the forks need the H & C settings sorted (in fact, they need set up properly period). This somewhat jaundiced my experience, and I only managed out for a couple of hours and didn’t really put it (or me!) under pressure.
anyway, my thoughts: it’s definite improvement on the mk3. No vagueness of steering, much better position for climbing, HA inspires confidence. And it was definitely a lot faster than the Sherpa with 2.8” B+ HR/DHR Maxxis rubber.
no pics, just didn’t have the time, as soon as it was finished and operational I was out on it. Might get some back garden weed shots done if I get the time.
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I loved the demo of the previous version. Would love a go on this but fear I’d be writing a cheque* shortly after
*no not really a cheque but you get the idea
Lovely build Metalheart. Certainly worth the effort and faf. How long and slack does that look. It just looks right ! Long gone are the days of toe overlap on 29ers.
Hopefully a two week wait to go..
Did you spray anything in the frame to protect it? Or are Cotic pre-treated?
One last question to THE owner (Metalheart) - have the seat stays got a brace? Looking back through the piccies on the Cotic site the green one seems to have a brace, the others not - I'd rather not have it but could you clarify?
It looks mint that build. And has me hoping they never release a Ti version ...
(I would ask Cotic again but have already embarrassed myself by asking what the rear disk mount was, only to find a perfectly good picture 2 minutes later :-D)
@cokie I believe they're coated internally from the factory from some searching i was doing the other day.
Wishbone seatstays... Definitely no bridge. There is a brace at the dropout, which Cotic have used for a long time.
I know what you mean in the pics brassneck.
I'm wondering if that is on the size Small frame only?
I think the green one (small?) has a small brace between the stays cos the they appear to join straight onto the seat tube rather than the little stubby tube that forms the top of the wishbone.
Aah, hadn't noticed that. Size specific details like that are the sign of good design.
Size specific - that makes sense, good spot.
@brassneck: Definitely no brace on mine (large). I also thought it was small size only.
@cokie: no idea. I’ve had, er, a few cotics over the years and never had any bother with corrosion (mind you I don’t run mine through salt). Even the mk1 Solaris which I trashed the headtube paint with cairngorm grit on my first bikepacking trip hasn’t been that affected. Im planning on putting on some frame pro, but to protect from chips etc., and because I’ll probably run with a frame bag as now I’m used to one and it keeps shit off your back.
Does anybody know how to set up a roughcut McQueen HLR fork?
some hints/tips would help..😭
Just put everything in the middle settings and ride the bloody thing!
Just put everything in the middle settings and ride the bloody thing!
thats exactly what I tried. Then all on, then all off, then on/off then off on... didn’t seem to make any difference.... 😬
How tall are you @Metalheart?
I'm 6'2" and used to ride a large mk2 and I'm not sure whether to go for a large or an XL. The XL is *hewuge* compared to the old L - the reach is best part of 8cm longer.
I run an XL nomad atm, and the reach on the XL Solaris is ~5.5cm longer, but if the stem is 35mm then maybe knock a CM off that and just accept that bikes are about 4.5 cm longer nowadays. Doesn't sound like much, but I'm aiming to run the Solaris as my long-distance/bikepacking 29er, and put the Nomad away for the big rocky action.
So much indecision 🙁
@chevychase: I’m six foot (give or take a couple mm). I was in a quandary over whether to medium or large. I was advised to speak to Paul who said the new frames were designed to run 35mm stems and large was the one for me. I was a little wary of how it would feel. My mk1 medium was way short (in retrospect), my mk3 (60mm stem) is pretty much there for all day bikepacking (which is what it was built up for). The new bike doesn't feel any different reach wise (the mk3 large got longer before even longer still). So I’ll give you the answer I always give: give Cotic a call and chat it through. I’ve actually taken my own advice 🤣
eta: I could’ve fitted a 170mm dropper post, there’s plenty of clearance. A medium would’ve been too small....
K. Ta. I'll be giving them a bell. 🙂
Wonder why they don't offer 170mm droppers as standard (IIRC they offer 150's) - always good to have more rather than less IMO.
Need to figure out a system to bikepack with a dropper now too. Can't see my alpkit koala doing a dropper post much good.
With Cotic you can get (within reason) what you want. With my previous SolarisMAX I wanted a set up (2x boost) that wasn’t on the ‘customise’ menu. Cy sorted me out (then as my bike was the first B+ build out the door stuck a photo of it on the their news page highlighting it was non-standard saying ‘we can do this....’)
whilst I’m, to an extent, a known quantity to Cy it’s not sufficient to warrant ‘special treatment’. If you want a 170 and you are speaking to them about size, ask. Worst is they no... 🤣
Revelate have just taken out a dropper post rear harness thing. Drop Andy at backcountry.scot an email he’ll fill you in (warning, it ain’t going to be cheap though). Backcountry are the uk agent/importer and they just took delivery of a revelate batch last week (picked up a front harness and stuff on Saturday).
@ chevychase this article any interest to you:
http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/bikepacking-with-a-dropper-post/
Back to the topic of the Solaris everyone 😀
@metalheart more pics please including close ups of the colour in natural light please, I fancy that colour as a future build.
Cheers
Ordered, M in COsmic Black - going for a JPS build :-D.
Missed the boat on a Tripster last time I bought and spent 9 months waiting for the frame to chug across, not doing that again.
Any idea what frame weight these are coming in at for a Large?
