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seems a bit Darwinian that they can’t survive without input from another species
Uh-huh...
I've met a few horse riders while out riding over the last week, we have exchanged friendly hellos - and I assumed they were making the same kind of risk assessment as me before I ventured out for my Government-sanctioned exercise.
Thats patent bollocks, how do all the ones not saddle broken survive?
seems a bit Darwinian that they can’t survive without input from another species
Generally by living wild on somewhere like Dartmoor and being able to run/wander arroudn and eat fresh grass, rather than in a small 1/4 acre electric fenced pen that get's muddy and needs topping up with hay every day.
You wouldn't put a dog in a crate for 3 months and blame it for dying would you?
How about the average modern human, could you survive in your house for the next 3 months without outside assistance? I'm including things like gas water electricity and shopping as outside assistance, you're only allowed to eat and drink the contents of your garden.
(seems a bit Darwinian that they can’t survive without input from another species).
I think it's mostly that they're often too tall to get into supermarkets, plus banks are reluctant to allow them to open accounts, hence a lack of bank cards etc, which can be problematic - handling cash with a hoof is hard, I'm told. But hey, don't let the real world interfere with your prejudices 🙂
There’s been a couple of posts on my local FB page from horsey types justifying driving their horses to go for a ride.
Apparently the horses get bored in the field and need a proper ride….hmmmm, nothing at all to do with you wanting to ride out Mrs Horsey lady?
Sorry if this post came across as anti-horse/rider, wasn't meant to be, only that round me they really don't need to be driving anywhere. Loads of bridleways and roads are dead-as.
I think it’s mostly that they’re often too tall to get into supermarkets, plus banks are reluctant to allow them to open accounts, hence a lack of bank cards etc, which can be problematic – handling cash with a hoof is hard, I’m told.
Oh so thaaat explains the long faces!
Wild and feral horses would clock up around 30 miles a day, a horse in a 12' by 12' stable or an acre paddock doesn't have the opportunity to do that and needs exercised. Have you ever seen a horse come out of box rest? It feels like you are water skiing on land and the captain has baled. You can't ride if there are other horses in the field, it often ends in carnage or pornographic, and if space is limited it damages an essential food source. If you don't ride frequently the horse can develop behavioral issues, psychological problems akin to rocking in a corner staring blankly at wall. Physiologically, as with humans there are diseases associated with inactivity such as laminitis; where the pedal bone rotates an can protrude through the sole of the foot, even just short periods can have life threatening results.
What's the worst that can happen to your bike if it's in the shed for a couple of months? Mine is in the kitchen whilst I service and upgrade, I'd love to go out on it but there's more people on the local trails (it's only a short drive from town) I've started running instead, I'm knackered by the time I get to the end of my drive never mind sight of the trails.
As I quite clearly said aspects which are vital to the care of a horse fine, no issues but nobody has explained why taking dobbin for a slow walk down a BP with someone sat on it for a few is vital for its welfare and the same results can’t be achieved by exercising it in a paddock in a time of pandemic. More so given the skittiness of the things.
Feel free to educate me with some facts rather than the usual Horsey folks over reacting.
As Faerie has attempted - if it could end up as pornographic wouldn’t the horses prefer that to a slow trot?
wife rides occasionally, her granny had horses, rode to hounds etc - I prefer donkeys myself- much more intelligent creatures
Wild and feral horses would clock up around 30 miles a day, a horse in a 12′ by 12′ stable or an acre paddock doesn’t have the opportunity to do that and needs exercised. Have you ever seen a horse come out of box rest? It feels like you are water skiing on land and the captain has baled. You can’t ride if there are other horses in the field, it often ends in carnage or pornographic, and if space is limited it damages an essential food source. If you don’t ride frequently the horse can develop behavioral issues, psychological problems akin to rocking in a corner staring blankly at wall. Physiologically, as with humans there are diseases associated with inactivity such as laminitis; where the pedal bone rotates an can protrude through the sole of the foot, even just short periods can have life threatening results.
So from this am I to presume that being a horsist and a vegan (moral-reasons) are mutually exclusive?
there is zero overlap between any kind of pet owner (horsists included) and those people interested in animal welfare.So from this am I to presume that being a horsist and a vegan (moral-reasons) are mutually exclusive?
there is zero overlap between any kind of pet owner (horsists included) and those people interested in animal welfare.
You must be fun at parties.
😀
not the sort of animal parties you enjoy, no. 😂You must be fun at parties.
I’m so conflicted.
Having been well and soundly flayed for my belief that i should drive a short distance to somewhere quiet to walk the dog. I’ve had a stern word with myself, convinced myself that as 99.9% of people think I’m a dick I must be wrong, and I should just walk from the house instead
I took the dog out just now.
I had to stand aside on the path 15-20 times to avoid coming within 2m of people. Some of them seemed to make no attempt to stand aside themselves, which is odd because being one of the 99.9% that are doing the right thing I thought they’d know what to do. I did my best though, even though it’s harder with a dog on a lead trying to stand against a wall and keep the dog out of their way too. I hope no-one else touched the walls of the alleyways I have to walk down to get to the open space before me…..
And finally, stepping into a bramble patch to avoid a runner coming towards me I have now put a neat series of bramble gashes on my shin. Still, I was doing the right thing, so if they get infected I’m sure the health service will welcome me with open arms.
I feel so smug for not being a dick and driving a short distance even if it would have avoided all those hazards.
I see you're issue, the last couple of evenings I've been out on the road bike for local loops on quiet roads.
I've stuck to rural road riding, even though we have tow paths and offroad sustrans cycle routes galore on our doorstep as I know they'll be chock full of walkers/runners/dog walkers all waiting to cough on me.
The roads have been pretty quiet, with minimal traffic and when I'm rolling past the more remote woodland bits I've seen the odd single car, parked up with dogwalkers nearby clearly going/returing from a walk.
And TBH I'd say they're managing to better observe the separation/distancing request than most people plodding around the local towns and parks that I've seen.
I think the real thing here is that some people just want rigid rules, and to feel secure if they abide by them (and also use them to "shame" others to some extent) while others actually understand the principle of "social separation" and are perhaps thinking a bit more laterally about how best to achieve it given total shut-in existence isn't desirable or actually necessary.
If you have,/em> to drive keep it minimal, I can't foresee any circumstances requiring me to travel more than about 5 miles in any direction (I live in a busy SE town though).
But 40 miles to Shred Gnarr? That is some epic missing of the point. There is no form of cycling/running you could do from your doorstep?
As it is my car has sat idle on the drive for the last 10 days or so and I'm just fine with that. I have the means to get out for socially separated, outdoor or indoor exercise and don't have a dog, horse or velociraptor's welfare to worry about.
Everyone has different personal circumstances to deal with...
Seems clear to me that if you need exercise, your dog needs to be walked, your kids need to play and run around then your horse would also need exercise and stimulation.
Seems clear to me that if you need exercise, your dog needs to be walked, your kids need to play and run around then your horse would also need exercise and stimulation.
Seems clear to me riding a horse somewhere is not essential travel. Stick it in a field it'll be fine.
Seems clear to me riding a horse somewhere is not essential travel. Stick it in a field it’ll be fine.
You've literally not read ANY of the previous posts explaining why it's not fine, have you?
I think most folk are looking at the restrictions and trying their best to comply, as others have mentioned, they’re designed with the idea that you won’t get 100% compliance, but most folk will tend to do what they think is best, I think largely, most folk are managing.
Yes and I think that's where the current advice/legislation is targeted. As has been quoted previously it's Rule #1. Not that we can agree what that means!
I've seen very few horses being ridden lately. One or two on Middlewood Way and no I don't need to drive there and neither do the horse riders. I know some owners and liveries are walking theirs.
Oh I went for a run yesterday for a change, for the first time in years. This morning I'm fully aware of why I prefer the bike.
You’ve literally not read ANY of the previous posts explaining why it’s not fine, have you?
You've literally not understood that the way we debate on here is by simply shouting our opinions into a void and not listening or reacting to anyone else's except to use them to illustrate why it's different from ours and therefore they are a dick/racist/muppet.
Those of you moaning about horses, please consider that if you are continuing to ride your bike outside then others will probably be making similar judgements about you.
I don't think the comparison between bike and horse stands up to scrutiny though.
One is an inanimate object that the human can choose to use for exercise from their door, they control how it behaves and fundamentally can minimise the risks, by riding trails for exercise way below competence level.
Horses it seems from the above are kept in situations as pets that make them fundamentally unhappy/unhealthy and can't exist in their fields without exercise-intervention onto either roads or bridalways. Riding doesn't physical exercise to the human - mental well being is benefited I'm sure though. Most importantly where an innocuous interaction with other humans, cars, dogs, flies etc can (however well trained) can cause a flighty reaction and potential serious accident.
Just feels like horse riding isn't very compatible with the current guidance, but I appreciate that owners maybe don't have any choice if they want to keep their horse healthy?
If they're not creating any significant increase in the risk of spreading the virus vs. cycling, running, whatever - then what does it matter?
Being a dick about other people's hobbies just isn't helpful.
Can't believe weve gone to arguing about Horses, roll on next weeks installment
I'm not being a dick and definitely not anti-horse. I enjoy seeing people having pleasure out riding. You suggested judgements made by people about horse riders and MTBers would be similar.
I was a bit surprised that posters who seem to know about these things suggested that horses aren't happy/healthy to be left alone in their fields and therefore riding at this time is compulsory requirement.
My point was not about viral spread, but is that I'd suggest there's far more risk to the NHS workload per 1000 horse riders than 1000 experienced MTB riders on v easy rides. Accidents will still happen in both groups though - just the MTBers can reduce risks - the horse riders can't as it's a living thing.
@mehr - - eh?
MTBers can reduce risks – the horse riders can’t
They definitely can. Not jumping would be an example. Avoiding traffic would be another.
I’d suggest there’s far more risk to the NHS workload per 1000 horse riders than 1000 experienced MTB riders on v easy rides.
Is that with the horse riders on v easy rides too?
Is that with the horse riders on v easy rides too?
As I understand it, the problem is that if you fall from a horse, it's usually quite a long way down. In the same way that it's more dangerous to high-side a motorcycle where you're flicked into the air, then come slamming down into the ground with added G-force than it is to low-side (crash in a corner) even at a higher speed (depends on other stuff like street furniture, but on a race track, high-siding usually ends up worse. Same principle with horses, you tend to fall a long way.
there is zero overlap between any kind of pet owner (horsists included) and those people interested in animal welfare.
Apart from those pet owners who eat meat, or feed their pets meat, or wear leather, or eat jelly, you mean?
MTBers can reduce risks – the horse riders can’t
They definitely can. Not jumping would be an example. Avoiding traffic would be another.
Tbf, jumping traffic is fairly dangerous no matter how good your bike skills, so definitely don't try it now!
As I understand it, the problem is that if you fall from a horse, it’s usually quite a long way down.
But usually at lower speed than falling off a bike.
All the horse riders where I live are still out and about on their horses in same way I am out and about on my bike or walking around with the dogs.
Doesn't seem to be causing a problem and no risk of spreading anything as nobody is getting close to each other and nobody is touching anything.
I do live in a small village though and can't say I have noticed anything different - if feels just like it has for the last 20 years.
You’ve literally not read ANY of the previous posts explaining why it’s not fine, have you?
I have, I just know its bollocks, the thorough bred race horses I used to look after on the farm I worked on hadnt been ridden in years and they were very healthy as were the welsh cobs on our friends stud, only two or three were broken to ride, they were fine.
Now you maybe correct that horses kept cooped up in stables need exercising but that only means riding out in public if you havent the space to look after the poor nags in the first place.
Well a little bit of good news - as there is no form of exercise permitted here, I've been stuck on the turbo for two weeks, with another two - at least - to go. Rubbish.
The govt allowed self employed workers to commute to their place of work on Tuesday so with the form printed off and a receipt from my last NI payment I can at least do the 20k round trip a few times a week. Add some fat knobbies and a back pack full of laptop and books, it'll be worthwhile exercise.
I haven’t seen any horses being exercised on my usual run or bikes routes, but my dogs are making a concerted effort to wolf down any tasty horse shit that’s been left behind. Nom nom.
Seems clear to me riding a horse somewhere is not essential travel. Stick it in a field it’ll be fine.
I'm sure I've seen exercising a horse by riding on a road / bridleway as being non essential, with the advice being use the stable's facilities.
"As I understand it, the problem is that if you fall from a horse, it’s usually quite a long way down."
Yes but you the chance of falling from a horse is very low when you're not doing anything exciting (like jumping) and there are few idiot motorists about. Rather like cycling.
I have, I just know its bollocks
I wish we'd have known that at the start, it would have saved an awful lot of discussion.
Right then, I'm off out on the MTB. From the door, 2hrs max, local easy trails.
Rigid MTB too - keeps the speeds so low that I'm less likely to fall.
Rigid MTB too – keeps the speeds so low that I’m less likely to fall.
/awaits the debate on full sus giving you more control therefore less likely to fall vs permitting higher speeds therefore more likely to fall...
😅
/awaits the debate on full sus giving you more control therefore less likely to fall vs permitting higher speeds therefore more likely to fall…
Eyes debate warily. Shrugs. Walks away carefully maintaining social distancing.
🙂
It does feel a bit like the pot calling the kettle black around saying should people be riding horses, its a long way down.
I think its imagining what would happen if you ended up in A&E and the doctor asked how it happened - if you were in full knee pads etc I imagine they would think that wasn't just going out for a local daily bike ride. Same if you were 20 miles from home on a road ride.
Personally, I'm keeping things really local, within a couple of miles of home, and limiting it to going for a run and avoiding the bike. I'm influenced by hearing what its like from my other half working the wards in Newport Hospital.
This thing is killing people who are in their 20's and 30's who are in good health. It feels the right thing to do just to stay at home and not run the low risk of crashing on an easy bike ride and putting pressure on an NHS when they're on their knees.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/hospital-full-20-30-40-year-olds-coronavirus-stay-home-12493370/
It does feel a bit like the pot calling the kettle black around saying should people be riding horses, its a long way down.
That was kind of my opening post on the matter, I saw some horse riders whilst out on my bike and thought, thats a bit silly they could get hurt, then thought they are probably thinking the same about me!
awaits the debate on full sus giving you more control therefore less likely to fall vs permitting higher speeds therefore more likely to fall…
The difference in risk assessment terms between incidence and severity
Lower incidence on the full sus, higher severity if it happens
I have been flipping between stay at home and Zwifting and getting some fresh air on a sensible hour long ride carefully planned to use big roads to avoid narrower lanes or pinch points. I'd say I haven't been withing 5 meters of anyone when out riding. I have also been riding outside when the weather has been poor (wet/windy) so less people are around. Plan to Zwift over the weekend when the weather is good!
Getting a ride outside after 4 days not leaving the house has been really good for my head!
I think the risk is pretty minimal but I have easy access to quiet roads and a backup family member at home if I was to have a serious mechanical. Not sure I'd be doing the same if I was in London or Birmingham.
Thought last night about 8:45-9pm would be a safe-bet for taking some quiet exercise around local streets. Descending a steep, lit road at 25 MPH (still taking it easy) I didn’t figure in the likelihood of a ****chbackracer pulling out on me from their sidestreet - because now of course these new Beyond The Thunderdome rules roughly translate as ‘Do not look, do not check, do not give way, do not indicate nor brake at junctions - because, er, zombies’
(We missed collision by a small distance, simply because I was going 5-10mph slower than usual)
Take care out there
I am fortunate to have great road riding on quiet back roads within a mile of the house so getting out for a 25 mile loop every other day. I have noticed a real increase in the number of walkers in the immediate vicinity, before I get a bit further away from the houses. Also appears that as there are less cars, many walking groups, families in the main, spread out over the whole road as they are not expecting any vehicles !
And what is it with dog walkers, do the dogs give them immunity as they seem to gather in close groups for lengthy chats, while observation suggests that taking the dog out for 3 walks a day is quite normal and considered appropriate.
I just popped out for an hour on my usually deserted bridleways and tracks. I was having to zig zag through the walkers. 😆
Going back to my pre dawn excursions from now on. Only way to find solitude.
Doing my serious training on the turbo though. Keeping outside riding to a simple hour of peace. Away from the news, enjoying nature.
Trail conditions are so good out there at the moment it’s pretty hard to keep it reigned in and just cruise.
Super dry, no spring growth yet. Empty.
I’m almost willing it to rain again.
I just popped out for an hour on my usually deserted bridleways and tracks. I was having to zig zag through the walkers. 😆
Yeah, I've used Middlewood Way and Roman Lakes a couple of times on the CX and it's mental with walkers & horse riders now. Worst thing is the walking couple - inevitably one person goes to the left, one to the right forcing you to ride through the middle with <1m between each. If they both went to the same side, you could use the other side of the track and >2m.
Oh and they always seem to have a dog which decides at the last second it wants to be with the other person and wanders across the track.
Sticking to the road now, it's quieter and the drivers I've encountered have always given loads of room. Partly, I think that's down to the lower traffic - it's very easy for them to pull right over to the other side and get past because there's nothing coming the other way. Less traffic = safer overtakes. Who'd have thought it?!
Caught the end of question time earlier, and Matt Hancock (Health Minister) said in answer to a direct question, it was ok to travel locally for exercise on your own or with your household. But did stress locally.
So, does that clear anything up for people?!?!
And on the subject of the Police getting ahead of themselves/struggling to apply a hastily written new law (delete as appropriate).
scotroutes - it's the latter.
@frankconway - I actually had little doubt. Just covering all the bases 🙂
It's getting a bit difficult to tell who means what on here.
Taking a step back, reasonableness should be our default position.
it was ok to travel locally for exercise on your own or with your household
I might as well drive to work come Monday then. Good trails there, so could get some exercise in while I’m getting away from the house. Or take the family somewhere nice for the day at the weekend, get a walk in, use a quaint village shop, smile at the old folk living there.
might as well drive to work come Monday then. Good trails there, so could get some exercise in while I’m getting away from the house. Or take the family somewhere nice for the day at the weekend, get a walk in, use a quaint village shop, smile at the old folk living there.
I believe the standard response on here is. "Well it's not against the law "
New Zealand health minister caught mountain biking during lockdown
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/new-zealand-health-minister-caught-mountain-biking-during-lockdown?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Just back from a dawn spin on the cx. Didn't see a soul. Lovely.
Training tonight will be done on the turbo.
Doesn't seem that hard to avoid contact and enjoy our hobby if you're willing to be a bit flexible.
I might as well drive to work come Monday then. Good trails there, so could get some exercise in while I’m getting away from the house. Or take the family somewhere nice for the day at the weekend, get a walk in, use a quaint village shop, smile at the old folk living there.
Eh? That would clearly be worse.
Just heard from my sister that there are already people turning up around the Brecon area determined to have an Easter holiday. Only a few but there can only be more like them on the weekend I knew the forecast sunshine would make some people go out more than they should but people in caravans looking for a site for the week?
Hopefully these earlybirds will mean the message of STAY AT HOME will get through to the others who were thinking about it tonight and make them think again about travelling. Otherwise we'll end up with pictures everywhere of busy car parks and mountains again. The vast majority are behaving well now in supermarkets etc but it will be the hardcore minority who will force further restrictions to be necessary. I'll be getting my day's ride in early tomorrow just in case.
Eh? That would clearly be worse.
Don’t worry, we’ll all be staying at home here. Hancock’s comment will result in thousands doing otherwise.
STAY AT HOME
Don’t drive to get in a ride, or a walk, ignore Hancock if you want to stop the spread.
Weren't further restrictions predicted on here after last weekend. Didn't happen. Chill (at home, obviously).
Further restrictions haven’t happened. Doctors* are dying. No sign yet that current measures are enough.
[*apologies, I know nurses are dying as well, but for some reason the numbers aren’t forthcoming yet for medical staff other than doctors]
Further restrictions haven’t happened. Doctors* are dying. No sign yet that current measures are enough.
Now I don't want to accuse you of histrionics, but do you think there's a big correlation between marginally more severe social restrictions and frontline deaths from a disease which is already well-advanced in the population?
Don’t worry, we’ll all be staying at home here. Hancock’s comment will result in thousands doing otherwise.
Except this didn't happen the last time he said it, before he was ill.
Yes, it did. Ask anyone involved with a National Park, like a warden.
No, it didn't, it was after 'that' weekend.
Stop/slow the spread. Stay at home. Save the lives of NHS staff.
No histrionics.
No sign yet that current measures are enough.
It’ll be another week before you really start to see the effects. Even under optimal conditions, it could take 3-4weeks to make its way through a family.
And because of our lack of testing, the numbers of confirmed will continue to rise regardless of new infections. We’ll have to go on deaths which won’t start to really decline for another 10-15days.
heres what hancock said
54 mins
Except this didn’t happen the last time he said it, before he was ill.
That's if he was. WHO guidelines are 14 days isolation from the symptoms receding, Mr Hancock has been away for 6 days (not the 7 that the government advocates) making him a liar or criminally negligent.
@Frankconway it wasn't struggling to apply new law it was charging under the wrong law, false imprisonment and wrongful conviction. What a criminal waste of public money.
Anyway, looking back over the past few days on my Strava feed (a mixture of club (road) and long distance (MTB) riders) there's only a couple of rides been done over 30km and those were convoluted loops that were obviously done to stay near home.
One odd activity did pop up - someone had "done" Bealach na Ba. Now I know he lives near Preston so seemed peculiar until I noted it was "virtual". Not sure what program but he said more motorbikes passed him than when he did it for real 😂
...already well-advanced in the population?
Is it?
What was your basis for that assertion?
So far as I know we have no realistic understanding of CV19 spread amongst the population, only limited testing, mostly of Hospital admissions and healthcare staff...
So a sensible application of the precautionary principle would obviously be for everyone to still stay home and minimise travel distance/frequency.
as a nation we are going to struggle to maintain lockdown even more in the coming weeks as the weather improves and the great unwashed get a bit bored stuck at home...
But apparently we're topping the chart for new deaths so far today:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
@whitestone probably Rouvy. You can upload your own routes as well as riding all the famous ones.
Is it?
What was your basis for that assertion?
Really?
The ****ing Prime Minister has got it.
Vague friend posted a 7 hour road ride on Strava. I've unfollowed him as it just pisses me off.
Ask not what you can get away with, but rather, am I being a dick.
But apparently we’re topping the chart for new deaths so far today:
Apart from USA, Italy and France?
Mixed messages again from government
Johnson on the news saying stay at home
Hancock on QT last night saying it's ok to go for a short drive to exercise somewhere
Who is right ?
Now I don’t want to accuse you of histrionics, but do you think there’s a big correlation between marginally more severe social restrictions and frontline deaths from a disease which is already well-advanced in the population?
Chronic shortage of PPE a bigger problem in this case
Mixed messages again from government
Johnson on the news saying stay at home
Hancock on QT last night saying it’s ok to go for a short drive to exercise somewhere
Who is right ?
As I said on the other thread.
I take that to mean the beach, park, visiting relatives and friends ect ect. Not your daily excercise, work or shops if needed.