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That said he should not be preventing people riding up a legal bridleway.
If he really needs convincing give him a copy of the Definitive Map/Statement.
If you believe he is obstructing cyclists routinely the correct thing to do would be to contact the highway authority to report this. If nobody reports it then he may continue blocking cyclists unlawfully.
These reasons are exceptions – even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.
or are you just ignoring the minimising part as that’s inconvenient ?
Well I clearly comply with the 2m part.
As for minimising the time spend outside - how do you define minimise? 2hrs? 1hr? 30mins? The minimum is no exercise, but they're encouraging us to exercise.. so it's conflicting.
And that's before we discuss why I should be minimising my time outside if I am not near anyone or touching anything, which is the case on a road ride.
As for fairness - every able bodied person is also free to ride - surely this is fair?
how do you define minimise?
well patently not....
I’d point out that we’re all free to ride our bikes as far as we want
Don't waste your time. Zealots be zealing.
Got a mate who's fair smashing some roady km on his once a day outing. He's lost his business because of this and doesn't qualify for help.
I'll send Klunk to tell him he's a dreadful human because he's breaking a limit set by klunk's mind.
galileo is in the house
I'd say that everyone who is stressing over this should go and de-stress on a nice bike ride.
Go on, it'll do you good.
Which is better, one 5 hour ride a week or five 1 hour rides a week?
Which is better, one 5 hour ride a week or five 1 hour rides a week?
Based on the UCI stuff I referenced earlier in the thread, probably the latter at a sensible intensity with adequate fuelling, but I suspect that's not really what you were asking?
I'm obviously reading the wrong press and following the wrong facebook pages. I haven't seen any grizzling about cyclists cycling - except on here of course.
kelvin
Cummings is down… is it wrong to wish the worst? (I know it is, but the man really is dangerous).
Maybe it's of more value for him to realise he was part of the herd that he was so happy to see culled of its weak and vulnerable.
Hopefully his case will be severe enough that he will not be so enthusiastic about eugenics in future... 🙂
how do you define minimise?
well patently not….
I’d point out that we’re all free to ride our bikes as far as we want
I wonder what a legal expert would say?
Ah, we have one here - an ex Supreme Court judge. His view seems to be that the police enforcing made up rules and ministers' pronouncements is a bad thing - the start of a police state, no less:
I haven’t seen any grizzling about cyclists cycling – except on here of course.
Very much this. Even my regular cyclist baiting friends aren't having a pop.
Ah, we have one here – an ex Supreme Court judge
He's always worth listening to.
Don't always agree with him but always worth listening to.
Yep, that's why I linked to the full audio interview on the last page. R4 World at One, 17:05mins in.
I heard Sumption's pontificating when he was interviewed.
For an ex supreme court judge his views were lacking both in common sense and a wider appreciation of what's happening.
FWIW, I have no issues with actions taken by Derbyshire police.
I was surprised at the grief Derbyshire Police were getting, especially on here on their cycling comments. I cycle with a few members of said constabulary, and seen some good close pass reports on their social media feed. The driver who assaulted me got cautioned to my surprise. Not sure I'd class them as anti cycling.
FWIW, I have no issues with actions taken by Derbyshire police.
Or rather, you have no issues with them as long they are doing something you feel is reasonable even if it's not legal.
You and everyone else should be very careful on this particular slippery slope.
well patently not….
I’d point out that we’re all free to ride our bikes as far as we want
Not really patently. To me it looks like "minimise time spent outside UNLESS you're exercising".
But from an actual scientific point of view it makes little difference if you're doing something very low risk for a long or short time. The reason it says 'minimise time spent outside' is to reduce your chances of meeting someone and having to talk to them. But that doesn't happen at all on road rides anyway does it?
I don't want to wriggle out of the rules - if you go through my posting history you'll see I'm a stickler generally (see speeding threads) but in this case going out for 2hrs instead of 30 mins on road away from pedestrians and gates doesn't make any sense. And the rules are sufficiently poorly defined for me not to be breaking them if I do it.
To me it looks like “minimise time spent outside UNLESS you’re exercising”.
err you're just making yourself look stupid now....
even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home
just to repeat the guidance
even when doing these activities
Bruce - don't attempt to re-phrase what I posted.
If, by slippery slope, you mean civil liberties encroachment I think most of us are well able to say....enough.
The current special powers have a limited duration and, unless extended by parliament, we will the revert to policing by consent when they expire.
If you want to start a separate thread about civil liberties and policing - go ahead.
Avon and Somerset police were on the news at the weekend. They were putting fliers on cars parked at a local hotspot. Gist of it was they didn't want people to drive so we're asking people to not do it. BUT they were clear this wasn't law and they wouldn't be enforcing it. If the polite request didn't reduce the numbers they would review the policy.
Strange things humans. I always wondered about the mentality of Daily Mail readers and Sun readers. It’s obviously not just what newspaper you read it’s a human psychology issue.
The government says you can exercise outside once a day but does not specify for how long. When quizzed the cabinet minister says whatever you normally do.
Some folk on this forum think we shouldn’t exercise outside or we should keep it to an absolute minimum. May I point out that is a personal choice. They then preach about it getting annoyed when others go out and ride their bike as they normally would solo.
The human psyche is all about emotions with very little logic. In saying that I know I’m no different.
Some folk on this forum think we shouldn’t exercise outside or we should keep it to an absolute minimum. May I point out that is a personal choice. They then preach about it getting annoyed when others go out and ride their bike as they normally would solo.
Clearly, if you are still riding 'normally' then you are making absolutely no effort to comply with the spirit of the lockdown and new laws.
Do you really need some formalised maximum time allowed to exercise or a distance limit? You can't deal with outcome-based rules or rules that afford some discretion?
Wow, the hysteria is snowballing nicely here!
What montgomery posted is well worth a listen, along with the Guardian piece on the same.
A lonely voice of reason among the headlong dash for curbs on freedom.
You don’t have freedom at the moment .
On the plus side thanks. I’ll chuck the bike on the car and come over for a ride now I now I’m not breaking the law.
Directing a comment like that at a guy clearly in a high risk group, who is making a valid point without hyperventilating about it? Nice. Rule 1.
There are definitely more anti cycling comments on here than I've seen or heard anywhere since all this began, although it does seem to be the same few people sounding like a stuck record though 🥱
They definitely need to do this or learn to back away from the keyboard 😂
I’d say that everyone who is stressing over this should go and de-stress on a nice bike ride.
Go on, it’ll do you good
Keeping away from other people and not touching anything are the most important factors.
Realistically, the govt can't give an epic list of what you can and can't do so they just come up with simple rules to follow.
It's a virus, transmitted by some form of contact and will die over time, if left.
One person going into the Peaks to walk their dog is fine, 200 queuing to summit Snowdon is not.
The current special powers have a limited duration and, unless extended by parliament, we will the revert to policing by consent when they expire.
That's the issue though - the police enforcement has gone beyond the powers and there's the whole willing army of curtain twitchers as well.
And it's Lord Sumption to you.
Do you really need some formalised maximum time allowed to exercise or a distance limit? You can’t deal with outcome-based rules or rules that afford some discretion?
Well no...no one's asking for a formal time limit. The only people that need a formal time limit are the ones who are taking it upon themselves to police the behaviour of others.
Could the mods rename this "Groundhog Thread?
I pop in every day, two pages gone by, still the same stuff 😄
One person going into the Peaks to walk their dog is fine
How many of these one persons does it take before it gets to be too many?
I'd love to be told that driving even 15 miles to ride is OK, but I can't see how it is. How can you expect to be the only person to do it?
Could the mods rename this “Groundhog Thread?I pop in every day, two pages gone by, still the same stuff 😄
You think it's bad here - over on the Cycling UK forum, there's people asking if they can still do their planned LEJOG trip in May...
people asking if they can still do their planned LEJOG trip in May…
Well, if it's their one but if exercise a day.....🤦
Could the mods rename this “Groundhog Thread?
I pop in every day, two pages gone by, still the same stuff 😄
That would be a bad idea, I might go for a residency.
TomD - the emergency powers were drawn up at short notice and could not be expected to cover every eventuality so there was an expectation that people would understand the intentions and behave reasonably.
Predictably, there are people who have taken the view that if my current activity isn't explicitly banned, I'll do it; they demonstrate no understanding of the broad intentions of the emergency powers.
Faced with that - and the gov's reluctance to introduce more stringent powers - I would say that police behaviour to date has been appropriate; except for the idiot at Golders Green.
As for my reference to sumption, I'm ok with that as it's his name.
Directing a comment like that at a guy clearly in a high risk group, who is making a valid point without hyperventilating about it? Nice. Rule 1.
Come.again. are you suggesting Colin shouldn't even be out because he's high risk ?
I don't have an issue with folk out riding their bike. I've never once said I did
My issue is with people taking a cival liberty issue over containment of a virus.
Its with people who feel they must drive to another location in which to partake some exercise - there's just no need.
Special times need special measures. What part of that is hard to grasp.
Are there any similarities to be drawn here with the 2nd amendment argument from across the pond?
Feels like it
Fwiw my freedom comment wasn't directed at Colin directly if that's what your trying to infer bedmaker.
Its directed at all of us. We are in social distancing and lockdown. That is not freedom.
Going round arguing semantics about a few posters on land access at honeypot locations where people are not encouraged to travel to right now has zero winners.
You lot are arguing over the Tories inability to communciate something appropriately.
It's a lost cause in that regard.
However, people in the real world have generally been self-levelling over this issue and I've seen nothing but decent behaviour out there.
Derbyshire police have demonstrated a gross misuse of power and resources. I'd like to take a look at their risk assessment for the flight - being qualified myself... And how they overcame issues with flying in the Peak - when spying on law-abiding folk.
(I'm sure they can but it's a terrible precedent.)
You can’t deal with outcome-based rules or rules that afford some discretion?
That is EXACTLY what I have been advocating. We know the virus is spread by human interaction and by touching contaminated surfaces. So, I am using my discretion and going on long solo road rides.
I did a local spin with my daughter this afternoon, which most people would probably consider 'in the spirit' of the regulations. I passed dozens if not hundreds of people doing the same. On my road rides I go near precisely no-one.
He said that the force – which used dye to turn a blue lagoon near Buxton partly black to deter sightseers – had “shamed our policing traditions”
FFS!
Some of the hysteria on this thread is hilarious. I have spent 2 very stressful weeks making sure my old mum and dad are social distancing. The had been planning a street party, but standing further away, carrying on their walking group and meeting old friends. Finally they get it. Mum walks down to the allotment now, which is allowed. Dad went on a 4hr bike ride today. The met no one, saw no one. Not sure what argument I have for making them stay in the house longer? His escape plan is to call mum, no one outside of the household would be involved in this. I am more comfortable with this than them going to get their prescription or poping down the shops.
Was referring to your comment on Epicyclos post not Colin's TR.
His escape plan is to call mum, no one outside of the household would be involved in this
Being picky, but that only works if he's conscious.
^ My garmin sends a text if you have an accident.
I have the function turned off because every mildly technical bit I did on the MTB set it off with this insane klaxon you have to cancel before it sends the text. And that was with it in my Camelbak, not even on the bike.
Probably OK on a road ride though.
I digress...
Yep, Groundhog Day
I know teachers and parents who are using the image in the link below to help their kids cope with this situation.
Quite a few people on here would also benefit I think:
FFS!
Can I just put that in context.
It's previously been dyed in the summer to deter visitors. This is nothing new. Every year there's stories of people going up there to get a cool photo of them swimming in water that looks like it should be in a Caribbean holiday advert. Then ending up in hospital with anything from skin irritation to stomach problems and chemical burns.
It's referred to as the "Blue lagoon", which sounds lovely, but it's actually part of a disused quarry. It get's it's colour and crystal clear water from the fact that it has a pH of about 11.5 due to all the quarry waste so nothing can live in it. The bottom of the "lake" is covered in machinery, vehicles and dead animals.
It's not a "beauty spot", as the press referred to it, or at least not a natural one.
I know teachers and parents who are using the image in the link below to help their kids cope with this situation.
That's brilliant. Thanks for posting it 🙂
Can I just put that in context.
Very much this - was regularly on local TV news as another muppet had ignored warning signs and put themselves and their rescuers in serious danger.
@tinas Thank you.
Anyone received an ASBO for turbo training? Is it possible to reduce the noise and avoid conflict with neighbours?
Asking for my son!
Anyone received an ASBO for turbo training? Is it possible to reduce the noise and avoid conflict with neighbours?
You can quieten it a bit with a turbo mat and a bit more with a turbo-specific tyre if it's a wheel-on trainer, but my experience is that short of spending money on one of the quieter versions out there, there's a limit to what you can do. There's always a sort of underlying hum.
I guess you've thought of this, but non-adjoining walls if possible, a solid, concrete floor and maybe talking to the meighbours about which time(s) of day are going to be least disruptive. I used to use my cellar for this reason.
One other thought, if you think your neighbour is complaining unnecessarily, see if you can listen to the turbo from their side of the wall. It might give you an idea of how annoying it is, though if you live alone that's going to be complicated.
No idea on the ASBO front, but it seems unlikely 🙂
Use ERG mode and the smaller chainring - much, much quieter. I use 4 or 5 but this is mostly because of indexing.
Thanks BWD and, yes, realise they're never going to be silent but he's using a power meter and following a training program although he reduced his scheduled 2.1/2 hour session. Don't know whether he's had contact with his neighbours although they probably welcome the peace when he goes out on his road bike for a few hours!
There quite a variation between wheel on trainers as well.
I've got a minoura mag trainer and it's easily half the volume of the cyclops/saris one it replaced. If he's using it a lot it might be worth investigating quieter trainers.
Mines setup int he conservatory, I'm more worried about the volume of the TV. The fan drowns out the turbo, the TV drowns out the fan. And being the conservatory it's pretty much as loud outside as it is inside.
But it's only an hour, and generally after dark or raining when people will be inside (otherwise it's too warm and/or I'd be riding outside).
This is also a quote from Sumption:
He also criticised the government’s “hysterical” approach to stem the spread of the coronavirus by closing essential businesses and instructing people to stay at home, arguing that the move would wreck the economy and saddle future generations with a mountain of debt.
“Anyone who has studied history will recognise here the classic symptoms of collective hysteria,” he claimed. “Hysteria is infectious. We are working ourselves up into a lather in which we exaggerate the threat and stop asking ourselves whether the cure may be worse than the disease.”
He said it was important to recognise that hysteria can turn societies into “despotisms” and warned that some of the press coverage echoed and amplified panic.
So while his general views are newsworthy, they don't appear to be in line with the medical advice.
RichPenny
So while his general views are newsworthy, they don’t appear to be in line with the medical advice.
Medical advice will always be to prioritise saving lives, just as it should be. Whether governments should follow that advice to the letter is a matter for another debate. I personally think it is right but it is worth noting that millions of human lives are lost in this country and around the world for many other reasons that could be avoided and the govenment chooses not to risk the economy in order to save them.
I encountered a weird (imo anyway) situation today.
Cycled through a village not too far from where I live, bit more touristy, and closet to the seaside.
Anyway, on the way into the village I spotted an old man with a walky-talky, then in the middle of the village another couple of older folk with a clipboard, and then on the way out of the village another bloke with a walky-talky.
I stopped and asked what they were doing, and was told 'just keeping an eye on things'!
Seems a bit pitchforky to me 🤨
‘just keeping an eye on things’!
From a couple of metres away I hope.
Forestry commission ranger shouted over to me today while I was riding in the woods that all forests are closed to mtbers and I could only ride on fire roads.
Just for clarity, this forest is 2 miles from my door and I’d ridden there.
I stopped and asked what they were doing
Amateur. Buy a walkie-talkie of your own and switch bands until you've found the one they're on, and then listen in.
Cycled through a village not too far from where I live, bit more touristy, and closet to the seaside.
Anyway, on the way into the village I spotted an old man with a walky-talky, then in the middle of the village another couple of older folk with a clipboard, and then on the way out of the village another bloke with a walky-talky.
Sounds like that documentary, Hot Fuzz. Was Timothy Dalton anywhere around?
Forestry commission ranger shouted over to me today while I was riding in the woods that all forests are closed to mtbers and I could only ride on fire roads.
Just for clarity, this forest is 2 miles from my door and I’d ridden there.
Forestry England? They have asked people to stay away. The ranger may know more about that, did you ask? Did you take on his advice to stick to fire roads? Did he say why?
Anyway, on the way into the village I spotted an old man with a walky-talky, then in the middle of the village another couple of older folk with a clipboard, and then on the way out of the village another bloke with a walky-talky.
I stopped and asked what they were doing, and was told ‘just keeping an eye on things’!
Silly sods should be inside. So it's ok for them to meet up and be 'Citizens On Patrol'? Do you think that they sourced their own walkie talkies in advance and dished them out before this started?
Of course they bloody didn't. A couple of days ago, long after the advice that the over 70s should self isolate for three months Bob popped round to Roy's and handed him the second walkie talkie. He then popped round to Sue and Barbara and handed them a clipboard each. None of them quarantined any of it because Bob is one of us, so couldn't possibly be carrying a dirty foreign disease.
I may have made some assumptions in that narrative, but I got carried away...😉
1.5 hours on the bike today. Covered 50k (slightly less than my standard Tuesday commute) and saw 1 runner, 3 cyclists and 9 cars. That included a spell on the A46 at 17:30. Almost deserted.
Forestry England? They have asked people to stay away. The ranger may know more about that, did you ask? Did you take on his advice to stick to fire roads? Did he say why?
they have also said if you can walk/bike into the forest that is ok.
Grizedale was very quite today, as it was 6 miles to get there i decided to leave the MTB at home so apart from a climb and couple of flat sections was on the fire roads, saw a couple walking dogs in grizedale and 4 cyclists on the roads on the way there/home.
In the FofD Forestry England are still working which is far more dangerous than my pootling around the woods. If a government agency isn’t telling its own workers to stop then they have little chance of persuading the public to limit risk to zero.
Local FE woods are officially closed but a fair few locals still wandering/trundling about (mostly observing distancing 'rules'). Asked the local FE office about locals using the sites and they said if you can access them without a car then carry on. Nothing about which paths/trails you can or can't use...
FofD Forestry England are still working
Sure they're not contractors?
Probably, but they’re still under the control of FE, and therefore the government.
Either way, I cannot think of a less essential job than forestry in this time of minimising risk.
I'm still at work. Also non-essential. There are bits of work that can't be done at home, and these are the bits that (should) lead to revenue, and therefore keeping the business going, not just for me, but for other colleagues too. Do I like it? No, not really, but assuming I survive, it'd be nice to have a job on the other side of this.
Unfortunately it's a trade off the whole country is having to make.
Forestry machinery costs a lot of money. It stands idle and it costs even more. If their working area is closed to the public and they can work at distance from each other, the theory goes that it's ok.
POLICE STATE...RESIST.
They've opened up the car park at Holyrood Park in Edinburgh and removed the charges - actively encouraging people to drive there to exercise!@!@!?!!!!!!!!!!
Police chiefs have told officers that people should not be punished for driving a reasonable distance to exercise, and that blanket checks were disproportionate, in a bid to quell a row about heavy-handed enforcement of the coronavirus lockdown.
It says officers can use the road traffic act to stop vehicles for any reason, and this could lead to offences under the coronavirus act being detected.
But then adds: “Use your judgment and common sense; for example, people will want to exercise locally and may need to travel to do so, we don’t want the public sanctioned for travelling a reasonable distance to exercise. Road checks on every vehicle is equally disproportionate.
“We should reserve enforcement only for individuals who have not responded to engage, explain, and encourage, where public health is at risk,”
Good to see a more considered and proportionate position by the chief plods.
Let’s hope that quickly makes its way to the front line.
Silly sods should be inside. So it’s ok for them to meet up and be ‘Citizens On Patrol’? Do you think that they sourced their own walkie talkies in advance and dished them out before this started?
We've definitely moved from Shaun of the Dead to Hot Fuzz.
I hope they are cleaning them properly after use.
Good to see a more considered and proportionate position by the chief plods.
Let’s hope that quickly makes its way to the front line.
cue pages of semantic argument about what constitutes a 'reasonable' distance.
Either way, I cannot think of a less essential job than forestry in this time of minimising risk.
The toilet paper isle at Tesco's begs to differ. I also like oxygen it's good stuff.
Forestry England are still working which is far more dangerous than my pootling around the woods.
I recall having a conversation with one of their rangers and he mentioned that some 60% of accidents on FC land are cycling related. So statistically...
sr0093193
I recall having a conversation with one of their rangers and he mentioned that some 60% of accidents on FC land are cycling related. So statistically…
Mountain bikers occasionally take a risk, trained forestry workers tend not to.