[Closed] Living with a Rohloff MTB - one year in.

I fancy a 'hoff and have a frame that would take it, but am frightened by (Mrs RBIT finding out about) the expense.

Sell it as a long term investment, which it is really. It may take a while to pay itself back, but it will.

I had my first ride on my new rohloff equipped bike yesterday. I had to get another after regretting selling my old hoff

Any excuse to post a pic as i love it 🙂

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Firestarter - that looks amazing. Be interested to know what kind of riding you use it for and how it rides. Rohloff and dynamo for drag at both ends? 😉

and how was it firestarter?

I've had mine years but not fond of it on my mtb maybe it's the weight not sure. It now only sees service in the worst of winter. And for that it's perfect but a waste to see it unused so think it going back on the comuter bike

Keeps working though and apart from the odd cable and oil very easy to live with

One issue that has come up on the ones I know of is a slight oil weeping that covers the disc, thus contaminating the pads.

Any issues with your's?

More cash it was only the first ride out but its gonna be used for all my riding barring commute and school run. Yesterday was mainly roads with a couple of bridleways.

Drag wise tbh i didnt notice really as im so unfit after selling my bikes to buy this and waiting 3 months for it. Plus only bike i have to compare it with is a 20 year old singlespeed kona

Leffe its lovely 🙂

First thing is to put away the chain gauge, the wear is irrelevant. You only need to change it when changing the sprocket or chainring. Mine is now 8 or 9 years old, can't recall off hand but is on it's 3rd sprocket, 3rd chain and second chainring. I reverse the chain ring but not the sprocket as this would mean running a a surface exposed to the elements for a couple of years against he oil seal. Mine is an off road commuter used all year round and the drive train never gets more than a wipe and more oil put on it. I don't think it's draggy and the one proper test I saw in Human Powered Vehicle periodical or some such periodical showed it didn't differ much from a brand new perfectly clean conventional drivetrain. Mine leaks oil occasionally but if you change it once a year or 3000 miles if sooner then it's not a problem in terms of hub life. I find the 250ml bottles of oil a good option to save some money without the expense of the 1 litre bottles. For me the only downside is the weight, a lighter version would be nice but on the other hand I'd then want one on every bike!

You may say that you don't notice the drag but when I had one people who were slower than me became faster than me when I was on the Rohloff equipped bike . I didn't find it as fuss free as I expected either and didn't like having to really back off the power to make a gear change going up hill . Plenty of things that I did like about it but for me derailleurs are definitely better .

I had some fairly alarming weeping from the drive side for the first few weeks, it turned out to be a little bit of grit which had somehow got trapped under the seal. Since then it's been fine.
The disc side has always been completely dry, never seen even a hint of oil on that side.

and didn't like having to really back off the power to make a gear change going up hil

Do people actually change up the cassette under significant power going uphill though?
I know you[i] can[/i] do it, but I've always felt it's really rough and leads to chain snappage. Fair enough in a race situation maybe, but not day to day riding.

I have a Shimano Alfine 8 and whilst it has a number of annoying traits (it is draggy, the pick up is slower etc) I cannot fault it. It is on a steel 29er HT which is used as a "do everything bike" and hence I cannot fault it.

I would struggle to justify the extra expense of a rolhloff?

Do people actually change up the cassette under significant power going uphill though?

Are you aware that we are talking about an internal gear hub that does away with the need for a cassette ?

Oh and the weight distribution definitely feels different... Although I would struggle to describe whether this is a positive or a negative

Shame the drags definantly there, not just when pedaling but freewheeling also.

Ive ridden many, they all the same.

I own one. - used to run it back to back with an ss pro 2 on the same bike,in ss mode it rode quicker , smoother , quieter and nimbler in the rough stuff

Mines on my fatty - there its perfect. Fatty hides the drag well.

Its no magic bullet.

But if you want to justify it to your self crack on. I just wish i listened to singlespeedstu before i bought mine. He did try to warn me.

Also in most gear my alfine has less drag when pedaling but noticably more when freewheeling than even the rohloff.

This is my second rohloff and im happy with all its traits. Im not saying there is no drag but for me i dont notice it really as ive lost my fitness waiting for it 🙂 so when my fitness is back im still gonna be used to just riding this

Btw talking of drag on a big decent stick it in 11th gear you'll roll faster 😉

This is the shove I needed to actually fit mine ..... 🙂

It will be replacing an Alfine 8 speed which has been faultless so will be interesting to see if the drag is noticeable.

Despite having its seals checked/replaced mine weeps from the non DS and gathers at the bottom of the clickerbox. Doesn't seem to make contact with the 160mm disc so will see.

I may get a chance to fettle this evening .....

Bought a secondhand 'hoff about 7 years ago. Its been on several different frames, had several different rims laced onto it. I love it. Presently on a Fortitude Race

The only thing I'd possibly prefer is a frame-mounted gearbox, like a Pinion.

Had to send it back to the factory twice for new bearings. Each time fixed free of charge and given an overhaul and returned with a letter of apology for the failure 🙂

I had one for about 2 years and eventually the drag and the poor shifting got to me. I see it the opposite to how you see it- the weight and drag wouldn't matter on a lightweight trail bike but on an already heavy bike it compounds the issues and just makes life more difficult. Switching to 3x10 saved me something like 3lb and was just as reliable as well as being nice to ride.

Btw talking of drag on a big decent stick it in 11th gear you'll roll faster

you might be better in 9

Looking at the tables the Rohloff is around 3% less efficient than a derailleur. However they didn't test every gear on the derailleur and the Rohloff was new and not worn in. However for every minute I've been slower on a ride I've saved 5 minutes of cleaning. I reckon more riding less cleaning can only be a good thing 🙂

And the Rohloff polarises opinion as expected! I think it will always be the way.
I'm not trying to justify anything to myself, least of all the cost...compared to teh Hope/XX1 on my other bike it is a bargain. Granted, compared to Deore it is pricey.

I just wanted to give my tuppenceworth for anyone thinking about getting one.

Switching to 3x10 saved me something like 3lb

I had one a few years ago.

On a hard tail I think it's best suited. The weight factor plus no chain tensioner made a lot of sense.

Also fitted one to a Nicolai Helius with the dedicate dropouts. Have to say it added too much weight and additional complexity with the chain tensioner, chain guide etc.

I liked it overall, but hard tail only for me.

31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.

When I was looking for a new job in town, my plan was to buy an Alfine or 'hoff equipped bike for the commute. It struck me as pretty much the perfect commuting setup and would steer well away from the [fixie] single speed that most of the blood hipsters use.

I mean, god inveted brakes and gears for a reason. USE THEM!!!

And shave off that ratty beard FFS.

31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.

You were using an osmium chain, sprockets, spokes and chain tensioner with the 'hoff weren't you 🙂

31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.

The best defense of an outrageous statement is always to make a more outrageous one. 🙂

I love them....so much so I have two!

One on my fat bike which I used to tour the length of South America on dirt roads, another sat waiting for another build project.

Draggy, can't really say as I notice but as others have said thats probably masked by 8" of rubber in contact with the ground.

Having lived with one for over 18 months of extended use they are unbeatable in terms of being relatively maintenance free, rock solid in terms of shifting and never having to worry about the derailluer getting clogged up with mud.

They're not to everyone's taste, but neithers marmite.

However for every minute I've been slower on a ride I've saved 5 minutes of cleaning. I reckon more riding less cleaning can only be a good thing

This is why I went Alfine then eventually SS. lazyness / better time management.

havnt sold mine forthe winter ride aspect - quick hose off and shes good to go tomorrow.

but there are many more enjoyable ways to spend a summer ride ..... 1x9/10 certainly trumps a rohloff on a lovely dry summers day.

if i could only have one bike it would be a rohloff and id accept the drag.

but i only take it out on mingy days as it is

4lbs chuckle chuckle

http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/rohloff-setup-weight-penalty-my-calculations-251738.html

doesnt seem too outrageous as luke is probably on full XTR and dt swiss hubs and not retro to be weighing as much as 9 years ago - where as rohloff weighs still the same.

my Ti rigid was 24lb in rohloff mode and 19lb in SS mode..... but i have less gears than luke and no shifters/cables/cassete/mechs etc and my SS kit was light as **** and much smaller than the rohloff chainring- less chain.

+ves
Outperform Sturmey or Shimano gear hubs.
Very low maintenance.
German engineering
Novelty value
Very little to get bashed
Established product with decent service / factory support.

-ves
The drag definitely exists; perhaps OP disagrees with this but I'd imagine a fat bike or human powered tractor is pretty hard work anyway so maybe this is hidden. I've ridden plenty.
They leak.
The hub shells crack occasionally.
Spoke angle when built "normally" can lead to spoke failures; specially drilled Rigida Andra rims exist to alleviate this.
The shifter is Marmite.
It's loads of weight in the wrong place to have it on a mountain bike.
Costs the best part of a grand.

has anyone ever replaced the hub bearings themselves? shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.

shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.

You don't need to. Take it to your local shop. They'll send it to Ison in Cambridge. Ison send it to Rohloff. It gets fixed, they send it back.

Spoke angle when built "normally" can lead to spoke failures

shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.

You don't need to. Take it to your local shop. They'll send it to Ison in Cambridge. Ison send it to Rohloff. It gets fixed, they send it back.

that sounds loads better

UK service work is minimal, I once changed a shell but that's another story.
The turnaround time in Germany was excellent whenever I sent anything back to them and their English was great so they were easy to deal with.

It's a bit asymmetrical comparing a Rohloff to a Derailleur Chainset.

Compared to a Rohloff a derailleur setup is a very temporary and consumable piece of equipment.

[s]If they built a derailleur for the same longevity, it would be... [/s] Nah, it's not possible, it would weigh a ton, and be bulky. 🙂

I've got four of them. 😛
One on my "main" 29er, one that was on my "spare" 29er when I was doing 12 & 24 hour races, but is now destined for my 29+, one on Mrs MTG's 29er and one on our tandem.
After tens of thousands of kms riding Rohloff, my opinions on the most common myths are;

Drag. That HPV article is heavy going, so no wonder most people prefer to believe the myth rather than the evidence.
Look at the Shimano 27 speed figures. 95% efficient in 21st, 90% efficient in 24th. [i]Nobody[/i] ever claims they can feel that, yet [i]everybody[/i] claims they can feel the 2% difference between Rohloff and derailleurs.

Weight distribution. I can start a ride with 1.5kg of water near the centre of my frame and end it with none. I ride either Rohloff or SS. In either case I can notice the overall weight difference, but not any change in handling due to weight distribution.

Backing off to change gear. Do people really shift gear with derailleurs at [i]full[/i] power? Even on the tandem, I just briefly resist Mary's pedalling and shift. She notices the change in cadence, not the shift itself.

Shifting while stationary. This really is a big plus on the tandem where unscheduled stops are more common and lifting and spinning the back wheel to shift while stationary would be a lot harder.

Cost. The second hand price isn't based on age or mileage, there is no depreciation. Buy one, ride it, if you don't like it, sell it again for what you paid for it. Think of it as free hire, albeit with a big deposit.

Spoke angle. You may need to "cold set" the rim. It sounds a bit brutal, but find hex key or similar that's a snug fit in the spoke holes and bend them a bit to line up better.

I always feel there's resistance to change amongst mountain bikers.
If MTBs had evolved from CX rather than cruisers, then 29 would be normal and 26 would be the new odd size that's OK for very short people or stunt riding, but no good for "normal" riding.
If hub gears had constantly evolved from the early pre-war versions to become the standard bicycle gear, then derailleurs would be seen as a high maintenance lightweight fragile option that's OK for weight weenies, but not robust enough for "normal" use.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham - great summary...now, don't suppose you have a spare one to flog on do you? 😀

I've got three, one on a hardtail winter/commuter (longevity/reliability are foremost) one on a AM full sus - the extra weight is negligible as it is heavy anyway.
And the third is for sale, in superb condition, built into a 26" Mavic XM 321 rim - email in profile if interested.

I plan on doing a red & yellow build on my 29+. Rhusterbarb & custard. 😀
If I can find a second hand red hub before the frame arrives, I'll sell my black one.

If hub gears had constantly evolved from the early pre-war versions to become the standard bicycle gear, then derailleurs would be seen as a high maintenance lightweight fragile option that's OK for weight weenies, but not robust enough for "normal" use.

Well no, there is the (apparently, to you) small matter of £900 each, when you can buy two complete derailleur equipped bikes for that. Don't overlook that!

Not to mention FS bikes. I would quite like one on the Salsa but I re-used the drivetrain from the 5 to save money, so it's derailleur or more than double the cost of the build.

Hijack though - why do Evans have so many different models listed?

Good point. No doubt price would come down with proper mass production and more competition, but it will always be easier to stamp out sprockets and derailleur cages than to machine gears.

molgrips - Member
...Well no, there is the (apparently, to you) small matter of £900 each, when you can buy two complete derailleur equipped bikes for that. Don't overlook that!

How about we look at 10 years of bike ownership? (Bear in mind Rohloff owners often do big mileages)

How much would you have spent on derailleurs, cassettes, and chains? Rohloff owner would have bought maybe a couple of good quality cheap BMX chains and ready to buy a new rear sprocket after having flipped it, but even if he replaced the sprocket, it's not expensive.

How about we look at 10 years of bike ownership?

How about we look at actual cash outlay? If I want a Roholoff now I'll have to put a grand on a credit card.

Lots of people live month to month without large reserves of cash to blow on bikes. This makes it hard to invest in expensive items with a 10 year payback - even if that's true.

I don't love the slow pickup so much. It doesn't really trouble me too much, but it is noticeably slow.

Slow pickup? What to change gears? I don't notice mine being slow to change. One click it changes each time, every time.

As a hub gear dabbler (I had an alfine 11 for a few years before it got nicked, been keen to try rohloffs when available) I would say-

-Drag was noticeable but not bothersome depending on gears, same sort of level as changing to nobblier tyres

-Weight was not so much a of a problem but weight distribution did bother me. I'd get used to it while I was riding it but if I went back to a 'normal' bike it always felt better. This I would say is strongly dependent on how much importance you place on 'nimbleness' and it bothered me more as my riding changed.

-Cost was less of an issue than with a rohloff but just changing cheap chains and rings was great

-General lack of cleaning and looking after was wonderful

For what it's worth, a friend who has been a long time rohloff user on a mile eating hardtail has decided that he'd like to swap it out for gears, pretty much for the weight and handling reasons I suggested above, so it's not just me! He's had the hub longer than I've known him (8 years) and it's on the second frame I'm aware of.

Even before the cost, it's very much a case of try it and see if the pros outweigh the cons for you as far as I'm concerned.

How about we look at actual cash outlay? If I want a Roholoff now I'll have to put a grand on a credit card.

Lots of people live month to month without large reserves of cash to blow on bikes. This makes it hard to invest in expensive items with a 10 year payback - even if that's true.

All about what you value though isn't it. Plenty of people spend a lot more than that on credit on a car (or TV! etc.). If you bike is your primary (or only) mode of transport then suddenly the picture looks a bit different.

Well no, there is the (apparently, to you) small matter of £900 each

That's only slightly more than an XTR transmission groupset, or comparable to a Dura Ace one, not to mention the silly price of some forks that people seem happy to pay for, and they dont even last as long.

I'm not saying it's cheap by any means, but it's not considerably more than other high end transmissions, and when you factor in the longevity and reduction in consumable parts it's even closer, in fact once you add in a *single* cassette change it's cheaper than the SRAM 11 speed stuff.

Comparing it to a Deore or SLX groupset and complaining it's more expensive is missing the point entirely.

Disclaimer - don't own one, cant afford one, just trying to add some balance.

[url= http://www.rohloff.de/en/company/wanted_100000/index.html ]For a bit of perspective on what you get for your money with a Rohloff[/url]

Mine is 8-9 years old now and still running on the original cables, the outers are cracked in places so water and assorted crap gets in but it still works fine. I've just emailed Ison to get a cost for getting it converted for disk brakes as I don't think I can endure another winter with a rear v brake.

not to mention the silly price of some forks that people seem happy to pay for,

Now we're in the territory of retro justification. Your bike still needs forks whether or not it's got Rohloff!

Just to clarify - I want one, but can't afford one.

I'm not saying it's cheap by any means, but it's not considerably more than other high end transmissions

Yep - I didn't say it wasn't good value, just that it's expensive. And it is. Therefore you need quite a bit of money to buy one. You can pontificate all you want, but there's a bottom line.

If you don't compare Rohloff to SLX, then what do you compare? Alfine? Alfines have significantly more problems than Rohloff by all accounts, whereas SLX works just as well as XTR, it's just a little less durable and a little heavier.

Now we're in the territory of retro justification. Your bike still needs forks whether or not it's got Rohloff!

It's not retro justification at all, it's a comparison.

you were stating the (quite correct) case that they cost a lot of money, and that you'd need to stump up a lot of cash up front it you wanted one, but of course there are cheaper alternatives that offer similar function (gears) even if not the same package.

The same is true of forks, I'm stating the same fact, top end forks, Fox, BOS, Lefty etc. also cost a lot of money, and you'd need to stump up a lot of cash up front it you wanted one, but of course there are cheaper alternatives that offer similar function (fork/suspension) even if not the same package.

It's simply a purchase choice, and I'm just pointing out to all the people complaining that they are expensive that the same is true for other things you might *want* but don't need.

Making statements about people not having 1k to blow on a hub is all well and good, but neither will they have 1k to blow on a telly, or posh forks, or their car, but that's OK, because not only is nobody forcing them to, and cheaper options exist, and as always with their own set of compromises.

If you don't compare Rohloff to SLX, then what do you compare? Alfine? Alfines have significantly more problems than Rohloff by all accounts, whereas SLX works just as well as XTR, it's just a little less durable and a little heavier.

I'd say you if you must really compare a Rohloff to a derailleur drivetrain then you should compare it to one of similar cost and see how it stacks up for your intended use.

Same is true of Alfine, if you compared an Alfine to a derailleur drivetrain of similar cost I think you'd find the comparison less favourable.

But comparing the relative merits and pitfalls of IGH to derailleur is different to comparing on cost alone.

It comes down to what your requirements are and what you're comparing

posh IGH vs cheaper IGH?
posh derailleur vs cheaper derailleur?
posh $DRIVETRAIN$ vs cheap $DRIVETRAIN$
posh IGH vs posh derailleur?
cheap IGH vs cheap derailleur?

For some uses and requirements there will be clear winners and clear losers, and overlap in the middle, but simply to complain that a Rohloff costs a lot of money is missing the point, lots of things cost a lot of money, but that't not the only factor to consider.

Damn it, edit window closed!

I was also pointing out (a little tongue-in-cheek) that for some reason people think 1k on a hub is madness, but will sped almost that on other items (even a drivetrain which is essentially the same thing!) without batting an eyelid, it's all down to why and what you value.

My rear hub cost more than my car. But i only use my car for the school run when weather is rubbish as if its not i use my bike

As a side note i have 2 bikes one a 20 year old ss kona and one a lovely rohloff shand neither have suspension forks 😉

I'd say you if you must really compare a Rohloff to a derailleur drivetrain then you should compare it to one of similar cost and see how it stacks up for your intended use.

You could, or you could compare the cost of buying decent performance in hub gears vs derailleur gears. If you accept that Rohloff is the only hub gear suitable for proper MTBing, then it doens't compare well with derailleur gears, which is why most of us don't hav ethem.

Which (I think, can't remember really) was the point 🙂

Anyway - doesn't £1k for XTR include the cranks, which you also need to buy on top of your Rohloff?

[i]I always feel there's resistance to change amongst mountain bikers.[/i]

only for stuff that doesn't have sufficient "extra" benefits to justify its high price. It's just a much much more expensive way to achieve the same thing that a £40 mech and cassette combo will.

I always feel there's resistance to change amongst mountain bikers.

I don't - we seem to lap up every new thing they come up with.

"I don't love the slow pickup so much. It doesn't really trouble me too much, but it is noticeably slow.
Slow pickup? What to change gears? I don't notice mine being slow to change. One click it changes each time, every time."

No its the fact you could post a second class letter in the time between engagement of the drive teeth, its like having a sturmey archer 3spd all over again.

I've done over 15k miles on Rohloffs over the last 8 years & its when you work out what that would have cost in chains, cassettes, chainrings mechs etc that the cost per mile for the hubgear starts to come down & the derailleur continues to rise.
I'm getting over 4 times the mileage out from a £8 PC1 chain compared to >£20 for the chain on my XT equipped HT

[i]I've done over 15k miles on Rohloffs over the last 8 years & its when you work out what that would have cost in chains, cassettes, chainrings mechs etc that the cost per mile for the hubgear starts to come down & the derailleur continues to rise.[/i]

I've not done that sort of mileage off road, but I've easily done 10k on a road bike on the same chain cassette and chain-rings.

Weight was not so much a of a problem but weight distribution did bother me.

The back end generally felt heavier, less nimble and generally just a bit dead. As I said, I'd get used to it and compensate but going back I pretty much always felt the difference. If it doesn't bother you, that's great- it didn't bother me for quite a long time too, but once it did, it really did!

For another comparison, riding single speed achieves the same effect over a geared bike for me, but I'm not fit/committed/mad enough to ride that all the time.

Just an observation.

If a wheel feels dead, check the spoke tension.

felt like i was riding with my panniers on tbh.....

rear end would hang up on everything - compared to same bike with SS

so i put my rohloff on a fat bike where the difference is not noticable.

[i]If a wheel feels dead, check the spoke tension.[/i]

Or, make sure that you've not gone straight from a wheel with a cassette to one that's got 'comparatively' more weight built into it...like a hub gear 😉

Interesting. Riding my fully rigid bike at Swinley at any kind of speed requires some accurate handling on the jumps. Even for the small amount of air you have to carefully position the bike for the landing otherwise you get your wrists broken (or it feels like it). I reckon a big weight on the rear wheel might make that a little harder to do.

Over thinking things a bit there molgrips....

The difference between a Rohloff and a good quality derailleur, hub, and cassette is about 1 kg, so maybe spend some more money and get carbon rims and go tubeless. 🙂

The weight difference as a percentage of me 95kg+13kg bike plus kit is about 1% - not sure I'd notice that.

but I've easily done 10k on a road bike on the same chain cassette and chain-rings.

Irrelevant then 🙄

so what we have discovered this week.

some people own them and love them

some people own them and dont love them

some people who dont own them love them

some people who dont own them hate them.

and those are the only things we can take away from this thread. not very conclusive.

Yes, the spokes were fine! Why the determination that it's not the hub? As I said, I appreciated the advantages but over a few years of riding came to find the disadvantages outweighed them for me. If they don't for you, then fine!

not very conclusive.

No. I'm only arguing cos it bugs me when owners of some niche kit think they are the enlightened few, and everyone else is using the inferior stuff because they're brainwashed/too conservative/stupid/following the herd.

See also Moulton bikes.

you will always get that .... like the owners of toyotas and Vws who think they are the most reliable cars on the planet.

as i said earlier i actually have a rohloff ive used it on many of my bikes.... i think its shit in comparison to deraileur gears for general use.

its good on a winter bike though.

I'm Ro-curious for sure. Especially now I have a bike that can be fitted with Rohloff-specific dropouts.

if you were closer you could have tried mine.....

its on a 47mm trials rim so probably not gonna fit many bikes either mind... it used to be on a stans arch 29er.

I'm Ro-curious for sure. Especially now I have a bike that can be fitted with Rohloff-specific dropouts.

Why not buy one secondhand, try it, if you don't like it sell on for similar to what you paid?

The back end generally felt heavier, less nimble and generally just a bit dead. As I said, I'd get used to it and compensate but going back I pretty much always felt the difference. If it doesn't bother you, that's great- it didn't bother me for quite a long time too, but once it did, it really did!

I'm a big fan of Rohloff hubs - have ridden little else on my mtb's or commuters for the last 10 years - but I'd agree with this. On a hardtail it actually takes the weight distribution closer to a rigid than a bike with sus forks and even on a sus bike where it gives more of a rearward balance it's easy to adjust for - drop offs and bunny hops are fine.

However, swapping from a Rohloff equipped Nicolai Helius AC to one with a centrally mounted Pinion gearbox the improvement is noticeable. Livelier is probably the right description - it's not that it corners or descends any better but just feels a bit more fun I suppose. Currently riding 1x11 on a 29er hardtail and whilst the weight loss is great I miss the advantages of internal gearing.