[Closed] Like a kinesis 4s...(racey winter bike)

Cannondale Optimo?

Cannondale Optimo?

Great bits of Kit.

Love mine..a £650 bargain.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4451/24171217218_f772d1d463_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4451/24171217218_f772d1d463_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/CPVNLs ]BA418114-B23A-4631-B3FF-7BC27050DB59[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/137744496@N02/ ]Nick Wallis[/url], on Flickr

Cannondale Optimo

That actually looks really good for a training bike with decent race geo. Shame they don't do frame only. And if I'm being picky I'd also like clean Di2 routing.

The 4S is brilliant (rim brake owner).

I'm looking for the same sort of thing too and I'd like a Mason Definition. It's a chunk of change but a lovely looking bike.

I'm only after a frameset as I already have a di2/hydro brakeset and the di2 off my other bike to drop on it.

Not enough reach on the Mason.

Got my medium mason definition set up with almost same position as my medium propel. Tt is 4mm shorter

Enough reach for me on the correctly sized one to compare to my Sworks Tarmac or C60.

Fair enough. Geo charts would suggest that it’s a good 15mm more stack for similar reach.

That cannondale optimo certainly looks nice, and good value for money.
If it had been around a year ago - and I may have just not noticed it - when I built my Kinesis 4S disc, I'd probably have dismissed it. The things that put me off are the Press-fit bottom bracket (the killer for just about every other bike that was remotely interesting to me), the lack of flat mount caliper compatibility, the strange mix of internal/external cable routing not being available as a frameset and the riding position being too racy for my 'ahem' powerful physique.

I can highly recommend the Kinesis, if you can put together a build within your budget - very comfortable on a 100 mile route, and very responsive when you put the power down.

I love my saracen Avro.

Full Carbon f&f. Full mudguards. Di2 compatible. Threaded BB. Bolt thru wheels.

They don't do a frame only but you can pick up the bottom of the range model (same f&f) pretty cheap and sell the parts on you don't want.

It was a recommendation from mboy originally.

I also have a propel and have a Kinesis Aithein for winter and love it. Would highly recommend one.

Kinesis Aithein

What's that like for guards though? Doesn't look like it has mounts or decent clearance.

Thanks for the suggestions all. Optimo looks great. Everyone else must think so because there is no stock available locally!!

Aithein doesn't have mounts but you could probably fit some SKS race longs or whatever they're called.

I'd just go for a 4S though, if the objective is primarily a winter bike and then the "racey" bit.

Forgot to mention the Fairlight Strael...

http://fairlightcycles.com/strael/

Bit over budget for 105 but has had some very good reviews.

Go custom and build a bike that you will actually "want" to ride during the winter and fits exactly what you want. I just got mine last week and I am absolutely loving it. Based the geometry on my Trek Emonda but added in tyre clearance for 34mm tyres, mudguards mounts, screw in BB and disk brakes.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Nice that Richard. Who by and how much if you don't mind me asking?

Nice that custom build. Fantastic being able to use nice carbon wheels in winter as you have rotors to brake on rather than rims.

Custom is never going to be cheap but it gives the freedom of allowing you to build exactly what you want. This frame was build by a good friend who is starting to build custom frames under the name "kemponents".

I have found that similar steel frame makers usually charge in the region of £700 - £1000 depending on what you want.

The frame was then painted by a company called 7potcustom in Bristol.

This build purposely isn't cheap as I was fed up with heavy and slow feeling winter bikes, I ride roughly 300 miles a week commuting to and from work and training for MTB XC so it made sense to really splash out on something I really wanted.

Bike weights 20lbs as pictured or 22 by the time it has my saddle bag and lights fitted.

"kemponents".

Just checking out their facebook page. Nice stuff.

Agreed that winter training it grim enough without having to ride crap bikes. Which is why I have Di2 and nice wheels with soft rubber on my training bike. Frame is an old Trek that I brought from a mate but it really is a pretty good ride and fits well so really can't justify spending a hundreds on changing for no real reason other than having new stuff 🙂

Though will admit to being rather tempted by a Skinnymalinky...

[img] [/img]

1500 quid for frameset though, which is well into custom money 😕

Well I hope these Saracen Avros are as good as suggested above rather than being a bit "soggy" as described in one review I read, cos I might just have been tenpted!...

Do they still do the Avro? Doesn't look like it from the web site.

Carbon road bikes that take 'guards:

Giant Defy Advanced (needs Giant mudguards)
Cube Attain GTC (needs their own CubeGuards aren't available yet I think)
Whyte Wessex/Cornwall/Stowe (takes standard ones)

I don't think they have "race" geometry though.

Still Avro's for sale but not a current model

The Fairlight Strael is lovely. I really like mine. Comfy, great clearance, flat mounts, zippy. Out of stock until Jan though. The Strael 2 will be bolt through, not that it needs it.

The Strael 2 will be bolt through, not that it needs it.

Oooh. Request decent Di2 routing as well please 🙂

Carbon road bikes that take 'guards:

Giant Defy Advanced (needs Giant mudguards)
Cube Attain GTC (needs their own CubeGuards aren't available yet I think)
Whyte Wessex/Cornwall/Stowe (takes standard ones)

I don't think they have "race" geometry though.

Can someone quantify "lovely"??? As in, for me, any road orientated bike with drop bars that has weighed over 20lbs has just felt downright sluggish and like a real dog.

I know it's winter and steadier riding is the order of the day, but do these posher steel frames really ride nicely enough to negate the weight aspect?

I quite like the heavier slower bike for getting the miles in, especially when it's dark and damp. My race bike just begs to be ridden hard all the time, which isn't always helpful 🙂

No idea how much mine weighs but with guards and lights and saddle pack it must be a fair bit over 20lbs.

Can someone quantify "lovely"??? As in, for me, any road orientated bike with drop bars that has weighed over 20lbs has just felt downright sluggish and like a real dog.

Yeh, some bikes are sluggish, I don't think it's down to the weight though. Probably tyres/geometry/flexy components - these are the bits that give you "feedback" afterall. Weight doesn't really matter, especially when it's flat. I bet if I strapped a couple of bags of sugar to my Canyon it wouldn't make much difference. Possibly also a psychological thing as I tend to go slower on a heavier bike. But yeh, heavy bikes are not as good!

Teetosugars - What width tyres have you got fitted and what make are the mudguards?

For the optimo owners....does the 54cm fit as it should, not sillily big or small?
I'll check the geo charts against each other when I get chance. Usually a 54 but you never know...! 54cm seems to be the only size I can find in stock anywhere.

CAAD's usually have a fairly horizontal top tube which can make them seem large to some people.

105 Optimo ordered.....hoping the brakes are better than the other cable discs I have used!
Also ordered some reflective bluemels, so looking forward to my blood pressure going through the roof trying to fit them from the reviews I have read!
Also got some 28mm pro ones to replace the stock luganos.

Teetosugars - What width tyres have you got fitted and what make are the mudguards?

They’re (now) 25mm Conti GP4000s, along with a Bontrager Guards.

Boardman CX has similar geometry. Mine is set up almost the same as my Propel(s) and Defy. They have slackened the head angle a little since mine (non disc).

I've raced it at Hillingdon, so it's not slow 😉

Tired, did have a quick look when in Halfords last. I can't remember exact price but with the BC 10% it wouldn't have been *that* much cheaper as I recall...

Just had a quick look, it has hydraulic brakes...too late now! I'm a Shimano man over Sram anyway...

I wouldn't worry - mine's got canti's - hence I raced it. The BB is a little higher than the Propel, and the new one has a 72 degree head angle. Mine has 73 degrees parallel and is a very nice handling road bike. Of course I bought the frame for cross, then built it up with old Ultegra, and discovered that it was just such a nice bike to ride. I've added carbon mudguards now.

Geometry above all else is what makes a bike handle well. The Propel's geometry in medium is actually very old school 73 degrees parallel and a 56 cm TT. Any decent 22.5" steel race bike from the 70's will feel the same - as does my Kona Paddy Wagon 🙂

I've also returned my old Propel from my sister's, and am wrestling it from Son2, who rather likes riding it to school!

I wouldn't let my son leave my worst bike at his school...fairly sure it woulndt be there by lunchtime!!
And I sure you could do fairly well on a 70s bike TiRed...!

It's here....well a big bike box is in the garage anyway, I guess that's what's inside...! Just had mudguaeds despatch email, so no doubt it will be sunny for a while now...
Working nights this weekend with CX Sunday so not sure when I will actually be able to build it...!

After getting drawn in on this thread, I got myself an Avro at a very good price

And I have realised I have no idea how to link the photo on Android 🙁

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wUlHv9QRM1fkmoB33

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U-qAEL4EIkgD4goSlMhPIznTXvSRg8fLQC28v5TzWLVsTJ1w599tGT7uzuVA3NYsE0uUd04bEqq1Upp2PaF5_mP7MhOrqH2gjOOCWHo-HpxSuA0McQ9qtEnJjU55QXVxh-rVIQMUvg [/img]

Mtbtomo. I hope you like it. I use mine all year round. Great bike.

If you don't like it, you can blame mboy because he recommended it to me.

Yeah, I read a review that said it was flexy under power but so far its felt the best of a few disc bikes I've previously tried.

I just need to see if I can change the freestroke on the brakes.

Got it for less than half rrp, so I'm very happy so far!

Fast. Light. Comfy. Tough.

[img] [/img]

Sadly not sold any more. 🙁

Fast. Light. Comfy. Tough.

Racey? 😉

Fast. Light. Comfy. Tough.

😀

Reeling them in! 😉

And this was going to be my winter bike until I found the Avro...

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kO9DPlGTsZgFYadBmkaotiGAf95SlozgVi2MF7xNbEx1lKuGDRILqFIOy80upnrymGnyq6gar2qnFqzpaMxnK5GdvSXPSZKbxlpn70koFpIEKOg5wlZav1ZAKJrlQ4aZvOzMiXGIvw [/img]

I dropped the bike into Halfords (I know....) as I didn't have patience to do the front mudguard.
They have called to say the bluemel doesn't fit on the front with the 28mm tyre fitted due to limited space at the top of the fork.
Is anybody running a similar set up...? Pretty sure it should Just fit.

It looks like there's space

[img] [/img]

Although it's often recommended that a certain amount of space is left between the tyre and the guard to prevent stones from getting stuck. I always ignore this, but perhaps Halfords aren't prepared to?

Blimey, your definition of 'space for a mudguard' and mine are somewhat different!

Thought the Optimo was designed to take mudguards. Don't think there's much more space on my Saracen

Blimey, your definition of 'space for a mudguard' and mine are somewhat different!

There's either space, or there's not. Looking at that image, there's space.

Unless you're the sort of chump who fits a guard like this.

[img] [/img]

Would never trust a shop to do a good job TBH.

For mine they were saying the bolt that goes through the fork crown doesn't go low enough on the brace. I suggested they file it down so it would sit slightly higher but they weren't interested/able to do so.

Unless you're the sort of chump who fits a guard like this.

Doesn't look too dissimilar to my efforts 😉

(That is pretty poor effort though, especially for a fancy photo.)

For mine they were saying the bolt that goes through the fork crown doesn't go low enough on the brace. I suggested they file it down so it would sit slightly higher but they weren't interested/able to do so.

Sounds about right, probably one of the trickiest mechanic-ing jobs to properly on a bike.

Doesn't look too dissimilar to my efforts

😀 TBF it can take a few hours to fit them properly.

Seven hours later.....

[img] [/img]

For mine they were saying the bolt that goes through the fork crown doesn't go low enough on the brace. I suggested they file it down so it would sit slightly higher but they weren't interested/able to do so.

For the SKS they should definitely do two versions (or have an adapter). One for normal brakes and another for long drop, with the normal one having a bracket that somehow goes over the top of the calliper so you can make use of all the space under the calliper. Though TBH it's not hard to dremel the current mount to fit.

That's the plan, I'm short on power tools but have sourced a dremel for the weekend, I think. Failing that I'll dig the files out...!

I run 25mm schwalbe one tyres with mudguards on mine with plenty of space. My lbs set up an Avro with 28mm schwalbe one tyres on wide rims with mudguards. It's tight but works fine.

The mudguards needed a bit of engineering to fit snuggly but that's the service you get when you go to a quality lbs. Halfords is not a quality lbs imho. Can't you take it somewhere else If you don't have the time yourself?

28mm tyres and mudguards on my Avro just fine. Needed a bit of modification to the mounting clips on the guards due to the close proximity of the hole in the fork crown to the frame downtube.

Doesn't look too dissimilar to my efforts

Time for some show and tell 🙂

[img] [/img]

Mine looks pretty rubbish TBH, but it's just too tight under the brake and if I try and follow the line of the wheel all the way round the guard is stuck hard against the wheel in the 12 o clock position, so you end up with a hump that no amount of dremeling will fix.

😆

you could fit a bus through there!

I know, it’s awful 🙂 Is about the only way it’ll fit though.

I do wonder if it’s possible to fit guards and 25mm tyres on a frame not made for long drop and not have it look crap.

Mine looks pretty rubbish TBH, but it's just too tight under the brake and if I try and follow the line of the wheel all the way round the guard is stuck hard against the wheel in the 12 o clock position, so you end up with a hump that no amount of dremeling will fix.

That does seem rather, well, 'blobby' 😉

Seriously, though, a combination of sliding the upper bracket forward on the guard a few millimetres, and reducing the length of the wires stays (well, moving the guard further down the stays) should improve things.

Have you tried rotating the metal struts counter-clockwise (towards the brake caliper)?

It may then catch at the 3 oclockish position, but you could just chop the end off and install a mud flap instead.

Got sent this the other day, a mates newly fitted out commuter, looks like he's having the same issues 😀

[img] [/img]

Seriously though... it doesn’t 🙂 That really is as good as it gets on that frame.

At least my front guard looks ok! Does the equilibrium not have long drops?

Edit...

Have you tried rotating the metal struts counter-clockwise (towards the brake caliper)?

Yes but with the position of the brake, the seat tube and the bridge, that’s as good as it gets.

Loosen all four bolts on the wire stays, then manipulate the guard to a shape that is (more) parallel to the wheel, then get somebody else to tighten them up while you hold the guard still.

belugabob, thanks for the advice but don’t bother, that really is as good as it gets. If I do as you advise then the guard will be hard up against the wheel.

Btw despite the evidence in that photo I’m not completely incompetent and can fit guards properly 🙂 It’s more an illustration of how some frames just don’t accommodate them that well, and throw in bigger than anticipated tyres then it ends up looking like a dogs dinner.

Yes but with the position of the brake, the seat tube and the bridge, that’s as good as it gets.

Try some different guards? Looks like it's a problem with SKS!

Does the equilibrium not have long drops?

I think he just filed the bottoms out of his Apex calipers, although it should have a bit more space I reckon. Can't remember mine looking like that when I had one.

Mine were just about ok!

[img] [/img]

Try some different guards? Looks like it's a problem with SKS!

I’m not that bothered about it as they work just fine. Though when I do eventually change the frame it will be for one that can properly accommodate decent sized tyres and guards.

Edit... thinking about it, what I probably should do is stick some spacers between the chainstay bridge and the guard so the distance between guard and tyre at the chainstay is the same as at the seatstay, allowing the curve of the wheel to be better followed, but there is little room down there and i’ve already had to make some mods. Though it’d probably fill up with road muck pretty quick. Might have a play with it next time it’s all clean.