"Light" trail bikes

I think the cheaper Transition Spurs come in around that weight - and maybe the standard carbon Stumpjumper (not Evo) might be in that category you’re thinking.

Would a Niner JET be suitable - get your tickets 😉

You'd be looking at moving from a long or mid-travel trail bike to a downcountry or short-travel trail bike.

You probably need to elaborate on what "bike park/jumps" means to you.

Trail centres? Perfect for short-travel shred sleds.

Dyfi bike park? Not so much.

Not sure that bike weight comes into it for jumping

My Banshee Spitfire comes in at 15.2kg as my "big bike" 160/135 27.5

and my carbon Top Fuel comes in at 14.2kg as a downcountry/trail bike.. .could shave a kg with a few upgrades most likely... But it seems to jump better than the big bike, I put it down to the suspension more than anything, not weight... that being said... I feel much more confident on the big bike attempting bigger jumps. The Top Fuel is easier to get off the ground, but in a bike park situation getting off the ground isn't so much of an issue IMHO.

if I'm going to a bike park I'm taking the big bike, but Top Fuel is definitely solidly built but the geo and suspension doesn't really lend itself to any get out of trouble moments as the bigger, slacker and arguably more burlier bike

It sounds like your bike is right for you. You could look at weight savings on every component but it would be £££s.

Heavy bikes jump ok anyway. Fwiw I did do a short period of time riding my xc bike (100/120mm) at Rogate. It got down and over stuff, but was scary on the steep stuff and really noodley when pushing hard through corners or landing badly. The 32mm sid wasn't helping, nor were the thin/light xc rims.  Yeah a world cup rider with skills would be fine, but I am a clumsy punter. A heavier trail bike is much better.

It's probably quicker cheaper and easier to lose a few kilo from you, rather than the bike. I agree bikes have got more weighty, but 29er wheels are heavier, longer forks are heavier, dropper posts are heavier, good tyres are heavier.. It all adds up, and I think I'd rather have all those thing work properly than make them light weight and perhaps not be as reliable.

I put the Epic (even the Evo version) firmly in the XC category personally, I'm sure it'll take a hammering, but it's not really for bike park and jumps riding, more your longer distance-as-fast-as-you-can sort of riding.

Thinking about it you want that inbetween sort of build kit - if I were going frame only but still wanted something tough enough for hard trail but not DH heavy I’d probably go for:

Fox 34 / RS Pike sort of weight forks. 140mm travel probably.

Frame with 130mm ish rear travel - either light alloy or carbon.

DT Swiss XM481 sort of weight / strength wheels.

Trail casing tyres - this is where a lot of weight / rolling resistance can sneak in.

Thinking about it a Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon might do the job - or even the mullet 5010.

Bird Aether 9c

I think the Canyon Neuron comes in around 13kgs on the lighter builds.

My 160mm travel trail/enduro bike weighs 13.5 kg in a set up I would have no issues racing hard on, Ive ridden it at Golfie etc. no issues. Maybe some heavier tyres would add 500g if I wanted super burly.

So yeah its perfectly doable. You just need a light chassis and to choose your parts wisely.

My Jeffsy is around 12kg but it is a very blingy spec and I think the new ones are heavier anyway. Still at the lighter end of things.

Thinking about it a Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon might do the job – or even the mullet 5010.

I’ve a fairly top spec Tallboy and despite the short travel, I wouldn’t call it light. Few trail bikes are these days with weight really creeping up over the years. Longer forks with increased leverage on the frame means more material and weight of course. However, I suspect the majority of bikes are seriously overbuilt to minimise warranty claims.

I really miss having a light bike and am tempted by a modern XC machine.

My 160mm travel trail/enduro bike (which I suspect is the same as @benpinnick 's) is a touch over 14kg. Bird Aeris AM Carbon. XT, Codes, Lyrik, DT XM 1700, Schwalbe Supertrail rubber. It rides light, climbs well, brilliant on the downs. I'd happily pedal it all day. I'd possibly have a second lighter wheelset with lighter/faster tyres for just riding along tyres.

As per @joebristol, , that spec matches most of my recent bikes.

Current gen Fox 34 is plenty stiff and strong enough (much more than the older versions). Pike is similar too, so limit yourself to 140mm front travel and this is bob on. XM4181 rims or 20mm carbon if you have the money.

SC Tallboy, Orange Stage Evo are two great choices. I have raced botn Enduro races and XC Marathons on both my Stage Evo and my current Carbon bold Linkin, both weighed under 13kilo in their lighter guise. Very ridable over long distances but easily strong enough.

I've never felt the need to run anything more than EXO casing tyres either (and I do run low at 19/22ish psi too) and this also makes a huge difference as per above.

My bikes have slowly dropped in weight and travel over the years but seemingly remained just as capable. Currently on a Five Evo with what I'd class as sensibly lightweight bits (Hope/Stans wheels, XTR/XT groupset/Fox 34s/carbon bars etc). Feels far more nimble on the trail as any other bike I've ever had - really is a joy to ride.

My 160mm travel trail/enduro bike weighs 13.5 kg

Don't be shy. Give us the detail, let us critique your choices.

You just need a light chassis and to choose your parts wisely.

This, plus a bike with a lively pedal response.

Possibly more important than light weight (but it's reductive to play them off - aim for both).

Don’t be shy. Give us the detail, let us critique your choices.

Bird Aeris AM Size ML

MY24 Lyrik Ultimate 160mm
MY24 Super Deluxe Ultimate
Hope Pro5 hubs with Stans Flow Carbon rims
NNic 2.3 Super Trail rear, MM 2.4 Super Trail front *
Shimano XT 10-45 drive with GS mech
RF Era Cranks 165mm
Enduro Maxhit BB
Formula Cura 2 brakes w/ 203/180 rotors
RF Turbine Stem, 35mm
RF Next R Bars, 780mm 20R
200mm Dropper w/Shimano XTR Remote
Ergon saddle
Bird Headset/Seatclamp/Axle

*Could have been Maxxis Forekaster 2s when I weighed it.

@nickc

The bike Ben is probably referring to is the Bird Aeris AM - the new carbon one.

IIRC we did one with XXSL transmission which was 13kg on the nose but similar otherwise.

As a confirmed fan of short travel bikes, they are great fun, but if you build them light, they do have their limitations in terms of of reliability, if you are riding tougher & bigger stuff.

We have had 2 bikes that sit right in the ‘downcountry’ genre which is kind of what you seem to want as you have quoted the Epic Evo as an example which have both suffered terminal failures (Spur & Element) so have moved on to slightly heavier built short travel bikes (Top Fuel & V5 Tallboy) which, mostly depending on wheels & tyres are anywhere between 12 & 13kg.

Still great fun & I do most of my riding on one, hopefully just a bit more reliable 😆

My Liteville 301 comes in at 13.2kg, has 160 travel and Mallet DH pedals. Crucially though it's ten years old and runs a 27.5 and 26" wheel combo. Actually it probably weighs a bit more now that I've replaced the ten speed XTR stuff with XT and the Reverb with something reliable.

My Jeffsy is around 12kg but it is a very blingy spec and I think the new ones are heavier anyway. Still at the lighter end of things.

I'd love to see that on some scales, given most modern 120mm XC bikes don't weigh much less in reality.

But back to the OP, when you consider what the bikes like the new Epic Evo 8 are designed to do, and what top level XC racers do on them I'd be surprised if you'd have any issues with one.

There’s an 11.3 Kg Scott spark in the classifieds 😝 Stick a 120mm fork on it for the use case described and it’d be a hoot.

If your current bike feels cumbersome jumping then I'd say open the rebound damping up a little.

Subjectively not as much fun but certainly much cheaper than a new bike!

What exactly feels cumbersome on jumping?

I get the 'want a new bike' thing, I live pretty much in that state of mind at all times, but most of us are kidding ourselves if we think a new bike will fix issues that are more likely to be setup or technique related. Knocking a couple of kilos off your bike isn't going to make you suddenly fly better - how much really is that as a percentage of your overall bike & rider weight?

I’d love to see that on some scales

With pedals and a Garmin out front mount. I think the XT 12-speed I just fitted is a tad heavier than the XX1 11-speed that it originally had. It's marginally lighter than my buddy's 'money is no object' build on a Spur, which surprised both of us.

Something of interest to me too. I'm currently on a 15kg light-as-I-can-get-away-with RocketMax. Whilst its a beast descending, its a slug working its way back up. I'm 65kg so its not much less than 25% of my bodyweight.

This was a replacement for a 26" Rocket (so same travel) which was a 13.75kg bike for a very similar spec. But frame tubes are longer, wheels are bigger and its just so damn fast through rocks, you need to run heavier tyres & rims to avoid constant damage. (The first wheels I put on the RMax lasted a couple of rides before they were knackered)

I'd "like" a sub 13kg ish thing, but that can still run a 150mm+ fork (my hardtail has 140mm on it). I find my current 35mm Helm2 fork on the flexy side, and I doubt I'd be able to drop much weight out of wheels and tyres as I spend most of my time smashing through rocks. I don't really care how much travel the back end has, but do want nicely slack geo. The rest of the build kit would be (give or take) the same as its all sensibly light, sensibly strong, sensibly not-cheap

I was a bit disappointed to see a Dangerholm full bling weightweenie build based on a Scott Genius was still 13.6kg, and thats starting with one of the lightest frames in class. It feels like its just not possible to do real world thrashable trail bikes that are sub-13.5 unless you live somewhere thats pretty gentle on wheels & tyres.

I was a bit disappointed to see a Dangerholm full bling weightweenie build based on a Scott Genius was still 13.6kg, and thats starting with one of the lightest frames in class. It feels like its just not possible to do real world thrashable trail bikes that are sub-13.5 unless you live somewhere thats pretty gentle on wheels & tyres.

This...............

I don't think you need a light bike to jump.  You ride up the ramp and your momentum is what carries you and the bike through the air, regardless of how heavy it is.  As above, you might just have too much rebound damping on.

If you go with a lighter bike and you do big jumps you are much more likely to break it. They are heavy for a reason.

My trail bike is 16.4kg in light mode.

There is nothing I'd want to go lighter on.

I've been trying to shift some weight and have managed 3kg from my middle, slaps (92kg) belly!

I cannot imagine getting to 13.4kg on a bike I'm happy to smash about on.

I had Cannondale scalpel with lefty, full xtr and 26" wheels. It was light fast and.... Broke a linkage. I was never happy getting the wheels off the ground after that and sold it.

I'd suggest riding more or losing some weight from you. It's a load cheaper, but doesn't have that new bike feeling.

I'm still wondering about that 185/55 tyre on the back of the OP's bike. That must weigh a ton. Swap it for a 2.4 and he'll be good.

yeah cumbersome when jumping means either the bike is set up wrong or you're doing it wrong. The best jumping bikes I own are my DJ bike and my DH bike, both of which weigh north of 40lbs. My 25lb xc whippit on the other hand is rubbish (and my plastic TT bike its probably significantly worse)

I think I need to borrow some scales from other forum users, some of these bikes are remarkably light 🤔

Just weighed my aeris am 160 with coil shock and 170 lyriks, SRAM AXS, slx brakes, brand x dropper, xm1700 wheels and super trail magic Mary/Hans damp, carbon bars

16.4kg

Size large

I’d suggest riding more or losing some weight from you. It’s a load cheaper, but doesn’t have that new bike feeling.

Do both for double pleasure

It feels like its just not possible to do real world thrashable trail bikes that are sub-13.5 unless you live somewhere thats pretty gentle on wheels & tyres.

Yep, this. The point where the bike gets to contact the ground is where feathery light stuff becomes a limiter. I'm sure you could build decently light, very expensive, carbon-rimmed wheels, but as soon as you stick correspondingly gossamer-light tyres on you're in for a world of fragility.

A long time ago I built a sub-21lb Maverick ML7 for 24-hour racing. It was fine for all that smooth Malvern, Midlands singletrack, grassiness and endless mud, but if i rode it in that spec on my local Peak District trails, it killed tyres and broke spokes for fun. Or not fun basically. I can imagine that something faster with longer travel would be even worse, as per @JonEdwards above. I guess you can simply back off, but what's the point of that?

I figure that if you ride anywhere remotely hard on tyres and wheels, they're the limiting factor. My compromise is to run tough-ish, but fast-rolling rubber with a sensible sort of wheelset and not worry about exploding my wheels and tyres every time I steam into a rock garden. If I were stinking rich I'd probably upgrade the wheels to some spangly carbon set, but I'm not and not particularly convinced either.

I know this arguably a different use case to someone who simply wants a lighter bike for jumping, but unless you're ET, you're going to spend at least some time with your wheels on the ground.

I had a YT Izzo to which I fitted Fox 36 in 140mm. It was still close to 13kgs and was a brilliant trail bike. I sold it as HT works better for me but my Big Al is not lighter.

Jumping ability has nothing to do with the weight of your bike.

My Aether 9 is 15.7kg. Seems on the high side but I struggle to see where weight could easily be dropped, other than swapping the coil shock for air and fitting less robust tyres. I'd like it lighter but not at the expense of reliability.

Ok just out of interest I weighed my trail bike for the first time.

It's 17kg dead. And that's with my lighter wheels, fast tyres and no inserts. It does have a coil shock which I'm not willing to lose.

It doesn't even flinch on jumps.

I think I need to borrow some scales from other forum users, some of these bikes are remarkably light 🤔

Measuring 15kg with a decent degree of accuracy isn't very difficult.

I think I need to borrow some scales from other forum users, some of these bikes are remarkably light 🤔

Measuring 15kg with a decent degree of accuracy isn’t very difficult

Agreed, but measuring 12kg does seem to be 😁🤣🤩

Interesting feedback, appreciated. I don't need to lose any weight thanks, I'm 81kgs and 6:2ft. The issue it not really getting airborne, more that the bike just feels heavy and cumbersome when flicking the rear whilst in the air and not a very lively bike sometimes, this is definitely due to weight, dropping to a 12-13kgs bike would be very noticeable. I rode a Giant Anthem 27.5 recently and whilst a million miles away from being a trail bike it felt really lively and playful, this reminded me of how much more fun light and nimble bikes are. I can't see much that can easily/cheaply be upgraded to save much weight. I have raised the "flip chip" and played around a bit with the dampening (increasing the rebound), will report back. TBF the bike is only 6 rides in from new and may not be set up correctly. It'd this Giant Trance:

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/trance-x-29-2-2021

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

- Carbon fibre frame

-Fox 34 (130-140mm)

- Light wheel set around 1,600-1,700gms

-11speed

when flicking the rear whilst in the air

Are you trying to do big whips on your 29er trail bike?

The smaller wheels will make the Anthem more flickable, but then it won't be as rollable over lumps.

I want a Specialized Epic Evo 8.... looks an awesome light trail bike, it's only 130mm up front (Fox 34) so may be a bit limited on bigger stuff. I do think some of the modern "down country"/"trail light" look really fun bikes. May be my next bike in a year or two.

My Spur with Fox 34 Factory SC, XX1 cranks, Roval Control wheels comes in at about 11.5kg. Its probably no good for a heavy rider doing jumps but I'm only 58kg so don't often brake parts but do notice a light bike.

It's an interesting conundrum. Maybe it's as much size as much as weight. As a tall chap you must be on a large I'm assuming. Bike have got longer for their size too. And 29er wheels are 29ers no matter how light you build them.

TBH a 'downcountry' bike built to fit you....beyond being a bit lighter are they actually any more lively - I don't know. Are they just not an XC bike built to get from A to B quickly but built a bit burlier, slightly longer and slacker than an XC to cope with rolling over/through rougher stuff......but still built to get from A to B fast rather than with more smiles. And at 6'2" it's going to be a physically big bike.

Could this not be an n+1 moment. Keep the current bike with the few tweaks already made and build up a jump bike with a different set of compromises - maybe a bit shorter, maybe smaller wheels purely for dicking about (well, it's all dicking about really).

Hi Convert -  I'm on a XL @ 6:2ft. I just weighted my Giant Trance at 15.2kgs, so a bit lighter than I thought and certainly towards the lighter end of current trail bikes (150mm+ front suspension). I'm hoping some of the tweeking with rebound settings and shock pressure should liven the bike up some. I also raised the bike using the "flip chip", so will be interested to see the effect. I do think there is may be a good middle ground and that's the new down country bikes in the 130-140mm range. I don't do Alpine riding, my riding is UK mixed woodland trails, Bike Park Wales, 417 Flyup, Sustrans routes, Glentress & Innerleithen type riding. I may be better suited to a shorter travel/lighter down country bike.

Ok. If nothing else certainly a reason to test ride a few if you can.

On the link you put up further up for your current bike I looked on the size guide for what they are worth and 6'2" is firmly in size large territory. Back in the day (so maybe an outdated philosophy) when buying a bike you sized up for charge through everything ability and sized down for playfulness. Maybe it's worth making sure the next bike is on the smaller side of the Goldilocks compromise if flickability/playfulness is your priority over ploughing through everything and anything. Save a smidge if weight too. And maybe go for something with short chainstays.....not that yours currently are long.

You are correct about the Giant size chart putting me on a "large". However, their size charts are way off. I fond Giant Trance frames run on the small size and the bike feels perfect size wise (6:2ft - XL). They have the XL starting at 6:4ft, which is way off IMO. I tried a few smaller "large" size bikes but they were all too small, in particular the Nukeproof Reactor which I was keen on. I don't think this is a size issue, more I may be slightly over biked.

My large Spur on 2.4inch winter tyres with X0 AXS and Tech 4 E4s  is 11.1kg (without pedals).  Pedals are 250g.  Calibrated digital scales, bike held by the saddle nose.

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On summer tyres it saves around 250g and with a lighter dropper, brakes, groupset, etc, you'd be able to get another 500g off it fairly easily.  So, low 10s for a 120mm trail bike is easily possible.  I'm also using King hubs, standard spokes etc, so not the lightest.

The current carbon Stumpjumper meets your requirements perfectly. It often gets overlooked as it’s not as fancy/cool as the Evo version, but it’s fair bit more capable than the Epic platform. It’s a proper ordinary trail bike with 130mm rear, and although they ship with a 140mm fork they can take a 150mm. The weights are good - the cheapest comp model (which I have) starts at around 30ib for a size s4. Sub 13kg easily achievable for a more blingy build. Good trail geometry - 65 HA and 77HA, decent reach etc.

Edit to add as it sounds like I’m being too much of a fanboy. It is flex stay single pivot which some people won’t like - it’s not as supple as an fsr model. I’m not very rich so mine has to be a ‘one bike rules all’ build - I’m considering adding a burlier 150mm fork to mine and adding slightly burlier tyres to increase its remit a bit further. But if I had more spare money I’d go the other way with it - lighten the wheels and tyres, keep it at 140mm and then have a bigger 160-170mm bike alongside it.

That transition...I do love a 'seat stay' that aligns perfectly with a top tube. And the tope tube/fork angle of near 90 degrees also pleases me! It looks lovely standing still.

On summer tyres it saves around 250g and with a lighter dropper, brakes, groupset, etc, you’d be able to get another 500g off it fairly easily.  So, low 10s for a 120mm trail bike is easily possible.

Yep, which is fine if you are riding blues & reds at trail centres, but from experience, the SID’s on other half’s Spur lasted a matter of weeks before they got bushing play, the damping cartridge was consistently leaking & the shock went back repeatedly for leaking & knocking. As many a suspension service centre has said, they just don’t belong on a bike like that.

I appreciate my idea of ‘trail riding’ might be different to others, but experience has taught me to accept a weight penalty for reliability & it seems to be around 13kg with suitable parts is that point.

If I want to go & ride my (very) local trail centre, I have a lovely set of very light wheels with Fast Tracks on & the bike is nearly 12kg, but it its not going anywhere near the off piste, as I don’t want to be walking home with a hole the size of my hand in a tyre 😆

What is this 120mm trail bike of which you speak?

This thread is making me feel really bad about my latest build! I managed to get my Genesis Tarn under 12kg (just) by chucking a rigid carbon fork on it - granted I haven't spent a lot of money getting the weight down, and really other than wheels and cassette I don't know what else I could lose any serious weight off.

What I will say, is that doing weighlifting will massively help with this issue you're having with the bike feeling heavy. My ebike is 26kg and I used to hate it, but after going to the gym properly for a year it's way more manageable and feels a lot more playful even at that scale-smashing weight! (Added bonus that I'm in much better shape)

Yep, which is fine if you are riding blues & reds at trail centres, but from experience, the SID’s on other half’s Spur lasted a matter of weeks before they got bushing play, the damping cartridge was consistently leaking & the shock went back repeatedly for leaking & knocking. As many a suspension service centre has said, they just don’t belong on a bike like that.

I appreciate my idea of ‘trail riding’ might be different to others, but experience has taught me to accept a weight penalty for reliability & it seems to be around 13kg with suitable parts is that point.

If I want to go & ride my (very) local trail centre, I have a lovely set of very light wheels with Fast Tracks on & the bike is nearly 12kg, but it its not going anywhere near the off piste, as I don’t want to be walking home with a hole the size of my hand in a tyre 😆

Fine, but a 34 Stepcast is almost the same weight and perhaps more reliable and for summer tyres, I always run higher pressures anyway.  I've only damaged one tyre in 3-4 years of riding and that was on the Quantocks going waay faster than I should've been as I could't really slow down.

thegeneralistFree Member
What is this 120mm trail bike of which you speak?

What would you define as a trail bike?  I've had 150mm Ibis and Yeti Bikes before this and whilst there is less travel, the Transition seems to make batter use of less travel.

My large Spur on 2.4inch winter tyres with X0 AXS and Tech 4 E4s  is 11.1kg (without pedals).

Do you choose the components based on weight or on the performance you desire?

I'm not judging, but I think this weight weenie approach is fading out and most riders are choosing the parts they need (or can afford) and the overall bike weight just "is what it is".

And XR4s would be a summer tyre for me, not a winter option. So perhaps we're using our short-travel bikes for different riding anyway.

Fine, but a 34 Stepcast is almost the same weight and perhaps more reliable and for summer tyres, I always run higher pressures anyway.  I’ve only damaged one tyre in 3-4 years of riding and that was on the Quantocks going waay faster than I should’ve been as I could’t really slow down.

I wouldn’t run one of those either to be fair, but as I said we all have a different view of what trail riding is, which is why bikes like these & various specs exist - to suit what you do.

As to what a trail bike is these days, given quite a lot of XC bikes are up to 120mm travel now, I think it’s generally more than that, with geometry thats designed not to have you sat there in Lycra, chewing the stem off for hours at a time.

There are bikes like the Epic Evo, which is right at the XC end of the spectrum, with the Spur & Element not far behind, then I think something like the current Top Fuel & then the shorter travel stuff thats more capable and can take the abuse, like the Tallboy & Spectral.

They all have their place & they are all great bikes, just a case of picking the one that suits what you do best.

Interesting thread. It's served to remind me why I don't own and must never own bike scales!

I’ve got an idea… ride my Raaw Madonna with coil front & rear then get back on your bike. It’ll feel like yours has instantly lost 10kg.

I don’t own bike scales, but I’m guessing it weighs marginally less than my car. I don’t have any issues with jumping or popping off trail features. Now hills… that’s another story 😂