I know a few Levo SL owners who wax lyrical about them. I get the concept totally, I've had a brief go on an Orbea Rise which was very impressive if not as fully integrated as I would like (and rear tyre clearance was poor IMO, and I really don't need 60Nm ever). But despite those who get the lightweight eBike thing really loving them, they seem to sit on shop floors for ages and are the one eBike that shop owners tell me they really struggle to get rid of...
So anybody actually bought one and regretted it?
A tiny bit of background for my question... I've had a pretty shit 18 months health wise, various things have happened, I have an ongoing knee problem which means I can't see me riding an unassisted MTB for anything other than very light duties for the forseeable future (eBike on ECO is fine on climbs, I just can't put any real pressure through my knee, but can sit and spin @ 80-100rpm for as long as I need to), but I also had a minor stroke 15 months ago and despite there supposedly being no evidence of it at all (ostensibly, I am the same person I was previously, there is no lasting damage), the one thing I have noticed is I simply can't "get in the zone" on a trail like I used to (not that I was ever a brilliant rider, but I could hold my own at the front of my regular riding groups) be able to. As such, on both my eBike (full power, 170mm travel, 25kg) and my Enduro bike I simply feel like a passenger on the trails most of the time now and have to back off to the extent it's pointless riding such capable bikes, I might as well get something lighter and more useful on the tamer trails I can still enjoy these days, and am thinking of selling my current eBike and my Enduro bike and replacing with something like a Levo SL...
Geometry wise I know they're a little conservative now, but actually the geo isn't too dissimilar (albeit I'd need a large, not the medium I had in these bikes) from both the Evil Offering and Whyte S-150, bikes I have owned in the past and loved for the type of riding I do. Yes, I am acutely aware of the Kenevo SL and impressive as it is, I know that I won't be able to do the bike justice and for what I ride, 150mm is more than enough travel and 170mm is overkill (as I've proved on my current eBike a number of times).
So... The negatives to a Levo SL...? I'm not looking for enough power to keep up with people on full fat eBikes, I'm looking for something I can enjoy riding with my regular riding mates on my normal trails, albeit with enough assistance that I don't damage my knee by pushing on the pedals uphill rather than just sitting and spinning.
We have one, along with normal mtbs and Turbo Levos. It feels and rides more like a Stumpjumper than a Turbo Levo.
Depending on what we are doing depends on which bike we ride.
To be honest we only wanted a frame and motor but that wasn't available so swapped out everything else with what we had spare in the garage and sold the rest on.
No regrets
It feels and rides more like a Stumpjumper than a Turbo Levo.
That's kinda what my mates say, and what I want I think I want to be honest. Part of where I'm at right now is I am struggling to throw a 25kg eBike about on the trails, it controls me more than I do it. So thinking a 17-18kg bike will be much more manageable.
To be honest we only wanted a frame and motor but that wasn’t available so swapped out everything else with what we had spare in the garage and sold the rest on.
Same, but it is what it is eh... 🤷🏻♂️ I'm not concerned for the build kits, it would all get swapped/upgraded with my existing kit anyway.
No regrets
Good to know 👍🏻
Not sure on what deal you could get but Evans were selling 2021 Experts in large with £2550 off earlier today
Negatives?
The price?
Personally I'd wait for more 2022 bikes to be announced, there must be more lightweight ebikes in the works.
It's a huge gap in the market for people who don't want a 50lb behemoth or the extra power that comes with them but want a little bit of assistance with a little bit of extra weight, either those coping with lack of fitness, or for big multi day trips in the mountains, or who want to get out for an hour and make the most of the time rather than spending 90% of it climbing.
I don't see any downsides at all, apart from the lack of choice at the moment.
Personally I’d wait for more 2022 bikes to be announced, there must be more lightweight ebikes in the works.
mboy - I think you're an Evil fan and they've teased a new ebike recently. No idea if it's full monty or a lighter version though.
Not sure on what deal you could get but Evans were selling 2021 Experts in large with £2550 off earlier today
I saw... 👍🏻
Not sure what deal I could get elsewhere either, but know of a number of Comp models in stock in a number of shops, all got quite a bit of dust on them.
The price?
Bikes are expensive... Specialized bikes often more so! However, I'm not looking at S Works level here, just whatever I could get cheapest so that I have the frame/motor/battery to do custom build on. More than likely the stock parts would end up straight on the classifieds anyway, and would be selling 2 bikes and quite a few parts to go down to one anyway. So not really a concern.
Personally I’d wait for more 2022 bikes to be announced, there must be more lightweight ebikes in the works.
You do realise the global parts shortages have put back some new bike launches by 2 years right...? I know of at least a handful of bike manufacturers without an eBike in their range that have had prototypes for a couple of years, but can't launch them yet due to availability of parts!
Besides... I could wait even longer... But I can't ride my Enduro bike other than to pootle it along the road (knee problems), I can ride my current eBike but being a 25kg 170mm travel monster I can't get the most out of it any more (if I ever could!). I'm OK riding my Gravel Bike locally as long as there's no climbs of more than a few % gradient but it's not what I want to be doing. There's always something new coming out, if we continued to wait we'd never buy anything!
mboy – I think you’re an Evil fan and they’ve teased a new ebike recently. No idea if it’s full monty or a lighter version though.
The spy shots I've seen of it, it's basically an eWreckoning... It'll be immense I'm sure, an EP8 motor and 630Wh battery, 170mm of travel etc... But I had a Wreckoning when I was more able to put it through its paces, and honestly, it was too much bike. The Offering (140 rear, 150 front) was Goldilocks in that respect. Arguably had the most fun on the V1 Following before the others arrived though!
I have the alloy version, pimped beyond recognition, and its great. However its not gonna spin you up any decent gradient without a fair bit of pedal pressure. I'm 16.5 stone with a dodgy knee, but not so bad that I can't put the power in when needed, and for me its been ace. The only way you'll know is to ride one.
However its not gonna spin you up any decent gradient without a fair bit of pedal pressure. I’m 16.5 stone with a dodgy knee, but not so bad that I can’t put the power in when needed
OK cheers
14.5st here (and trying to do something about it!) and been riding my eBike in eco only last few times, Shimano E7000 motor which is only 60Nm peak torque anyway, but I am led to believe more like 20Nm or so in eco and I'm managing fine with that up moderate gradients currently. I am expecting to undergo a course of physio over the coming months on my knee, but also I'm not the kind of rider to go out seeking the extreme climbs anyway. But noted thank you.
I had a ride on a Levo SL and a Whyte E-160 or 150 early last year, the full fat Whyte was honestly a bit too much and it wasn't in the top power mode, climbing with the thing was very very different from a non emtb, whereas the SL was just perfect imo, enough to take the edge off but not too much that it watered down the experience.
To be clear, my only objection to the levo and kenevo SL bikes are the poor specs on the lower end models, Vs the Rise, which with the alloy model is frankly cracking value.
Doesn't stop me lusting over a kenevo sl s-works frameset though... 🤣
If I don't get my fitness up to the level I want it at in the next 2 years I can see a lightweight emtb replacing my jeffsy.
Having a look around, there are a few lightweight emtbs from smaller brands but I'd be sticking to an established brand in case of warranty issues.
Not ridden a Levo SL but waiting to demo a rise soon. Current focus jam2 owner with 378 battery so used to smaller battery and running lower torque eco mostly.
I can’t see the attraction of the levo sl against the rise.
The rise - cheaper. Better spec for the money. Approx same weight. Larger battery. More torque (there if you need it but tune settings for less if you want a more levo sl like ride).
I can’t see what the levo sl gives you to justify over the rise.
A desktop perspective admitted. Interested to see what the rise rides like.
Sounds like you'd be just fine with the power then. Feels just 'normal' to ride, I tried the full fat version and to me it just felt like a motocross bike weight wise without the braaaaap, plus I didn't think the extra weight was gonna do my dodgy shoulder much good. Oh and you can lift it over gates just fine!!
As for the value, I think the Spesh service at a good LBS outweighs Vagicoated parts any day.
I've switched from a Rail to a Kenevo SL very recently and I love it. It's exactly what I want from an eeb. Sure, the Rail is better up the climbs but I'm enjoying the extra effort required and even climbing unassisted occasionally on the KSL. Downhill it's in a completely different ballpark. Happy for you to have a go at FoD sometime if you want.
I have a Kenevo SL for the reasons you define (minus the health issues). I’ve had a couple of full power ebikes & end up using them in Eco most of their lives.
I’m reasonably fit as I still like to race & can put out a 2000m vert day on my normal bike so I do not ‘need’ the assistance, but I ride a lot & doing that around a normal job and life is sometimes a bit much. I value my descending time more than my climbing, so an ebike with very similar geometry and feel to my normal bike (Dreadnought) suits me down to the ground.
I can happily ride in Eco still & even now turn down my settings from stock.
In terms of ride quality and feel, it is a very different bike from my Gen3 Levo which I was pointless me having a 700wH battery for.
With the KSL I’ve still done a 60km day & 1500m vert on the internal battery (with 18% left). For me it’s a great blend - for the days when I want assistance, yet I don’t feel like I have to re-learn to ride a bike again as there is a huge difference in feel between a full fat eeb and a normal bike.
The Levo wouldn’t be my first choice in geometry, because it doesn’t suit what I like to ride, but if I took it for what it is, a Stumpy with some assistance (ie a trail bike) it’s probably great.
There must be a new one due soon, after 3 years now. There is also Transitions version of the Rise imminent…
Pm sent
I have a 2020 carbon expert, no regrets. Fairly fit but some heart issues so need to keep out of HR peak threshold. Bike helps with this while still feeling light and fairly nimble.
Original spec was ok but I have swopped the SRAM brakes to XT, the mech and shifter to AXS and the dropper to Reverb AXS.
I have 4 other bikes, incl a Creo SL and they all get used similar amounts. The other 3 are regular bikes, one HT, one gravel and one road. Creo doesn’t come out in winter as no muddies on it, while other road bike has full guards on.
I’ve had one a few months and it’s Just Ok,
I can get about 1600m vert with a range extender,BUT if your riding with full Fat ebikes that will drop to 1100ish
Crap components and not amazing in the steeps.
Managed to get one for 3.5k so not to pricey
Got a part ex 2020 carbon comp model about a month ago and I absolutely love it. I've had the best few days out on a bike in years since I got it, unfortunately the weather hasn't been great so use has so far been limited.
A mate has just taken delivery of a carbon rise, which also looks great to be fair. But I like the integration and looks of the SL and have a really good spesh dealer 20 minutes away so that helped swing it for me.
I've ridden the levo sl and the rise, the rise would be the one I'd buy if I were after a lightweight ebike.
The shop I hired the sl from said they were having a hard time selling them
Had a full day on a Levo SL recently. I liked it more than I thought I would, but I felt like it was quite underpowered, especially compared to a full power e bike. Also worth noting, unless you get an S-Works, it will be more like 20kg, or a bit more if using range extender.
If you have deep pockets, what about a Pivot Shuttle? Full power / battery, but 20ish kg with 160/140 travel. Absolutely brilliant bike and build kit, but mega bucks. My local LBS is about to sell it's medium ex-demo though.
Just as I'd put the thought of a half fat ebike to bed along comes this thread and @hob-nob 's post, I too find myself time poor and think an ebike would help me get more out of the rides where I have hours not a day pass.
The thing that intrigued me about the half fats is the weight of the bike as I ride some steep stuff and how they feel when you're above assist speed, the large amount of YT vids I watched said the half fats are much better in these scenarios then the full fat siblings.
what about a forza powered bike if all you want is a bit of assistance on teh hill and the lightest weight? local chap has a forza lapierre and its ace. much more 'normal' than my focus jam2.
you could even go for a kinesis rise for a HT option to save more weight?
The thing that intrigued me about the half fats is the weight of the bike as I ride some steep stuff and how they feel when you’re above assist speed, the large amount of YT vids I watched said the half fats are much better in these scenarios then the full fat siblings.
Riding my Decoy, I don't notice the cut out of assist on trails. But, where I ride is steep, so I am probably not often doing over 25km/h and if I am I'm certainly not trying to pedal! The steeper it gets, the more I notice the weight. You definitely do need to manage speed a bit or it can start to feel like it's running away. They are just so much fun though. The other day, I went out in absolutely horrendous weather, did 27km / 1200m in about 1h 40. You just wouldn't / couldn't do that on the normal bike.
The thing that intrigued me about the half fats is the weight of the bike as I ride some steep stuff and how they feel when you’re above assist speed, the large amount of YT vids I watched said the half fats are much better in these scenarios then the full fat siblings.
I don't ride a huge amount of flow stuff, but it's easy to get over the limiter on quite a lot of trails. On the bigger bikes i've ridden (Bosch/Shimano/Brose) they all feel like crap when you are trying to pedal meaningfully. The Mahle motor is a significant improvement on that, but is still is no free pedalling normal bike, that's for sure.
In terms of feel on steep stuff, or trying to slow it down, I would say it's a lot more like a normal bike in terms of feel over a full fat ebike, but I haven't quantified that as yet (although I do intend to try, on my suspension setup trail I use). As always, the stopwatch will tell 🙂
When you say the Rise was 'not as integrated as you'd like' what do you mean? In terms of power there are two 'profiles' and the eco/trail/boost modes in each, which can be customised.
You can limit the torque as low as 20Nm (I *think* that's the default in P1/Eco) which compares to the maximum of 35Nm on the Levo SL. I spend nearly all my time in that mode and use a little trail or boost only when it gets to super-steep stuff that you'd not get up on an unassisted bike.
However, I can also do 'hour of power' rides with full fat riders with the Rise in profile 2 trail.
On the bigger bikes i’ve ridden (Bosch/Shimano/Brose) they all feel like crap when you are trying to pedal meaningfully
I'd agree with you no the Bosche and Brose - without power, or when they go over the limiter, it's like pedalling through thick mud. The latest Shimano is completely diffent IME - I've happily ridden the Rise with the motor off alongside riders on unassisted bikes.
Bosche and Brose – without power, or when they go over the limiter, it’s like pedalling through thick mud.
it weird how people perceive differences in resistance when pedalling over the speed limit. I cant speak for the brose, but with the bosch gen 4 - if you take the chain off, and rotate the cranks by hand with the motor off, there is negligible resistance. I suspect what people are feeling when the motor cuts out is simply the effect of a heavy bike, with heavy tyres, but no motor assisting (and also in possibly too high a gear for the speed with no motor assist).
Bosch bikes feel exactly the same as a full fat ebike (ie heavy) with the latest shimano motor. The orbea rise (with the same shimano motor - but a much lighter overall build), doesnt feel as bad because its lighter, and the difference in power between assist and no assist isnt as great .
There is also Transitions version of the Rise imminent…
Fingers crossed its aluminium and frame only.
I currently have a love/mostly hate relationship with my scott ransom eeeb. Its great to be riding with mates on their eebs, but downhill and through the corners, dont find it anywhere as engaging as my G1. Looking forward to the lighter eeebs with proper Geo, Kenevo SL is tempting, but its mega money!
A mate has bought a Rise, its a nice bike but I just cant get past the in-line 'LED THING' on the power switch cable. It just looks too much like the botched repair where I ran my mower cable over!!!
Bosch bikes feel exactly the same as a full fat ebike (ie heavy) with the latest shimano motor.
The first time I rode a shimano was on a full fat (YT) that someone had borrowed - a load of e-bikers who'd ridden Bosch and Spec had a go on it and all commented on how normal it felt with the power off. I've not tried one back to back for a while, and the main thing is not to try it after you've used it with assist on - the Rise feels broken then too.
I just cant get past the in-line ‘LED THING’
You can specify the Shimano SM-EM800 bar mounted display for the bike (extra £89), but yes the LED thing must be a bit crap
PS: I'd be going for the Rise over the Levo SL, both are compromises, but at least ppl want the Rise. When a better solution (bike) comes along, you'll be able to flog the Rise 😉
The LED thing can transmit power/battery/cadence info to a Garmin or smartphone if you like.
It's one of these https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/e-bike-e7000-series/EW-EN100.html
My 2p-
Having knee and other health issue I got an alloy SL. I bought into the SL idea as I wanted an e bike that felt as close to a regular bike as possible and one I could carry. I chose the SL as I liked the integration of the electrics, the app and support from specialist shops. I was ok with the trail geo as I wanted an all rounder not enduro monster but did size up.
The spec was not ideal but has worked fine (although I have just swapped in a Lyrik from my hardtail) reliability has been good so far, just an annoying creak which I tracked down to the spider being loose, although I use the hardtail when the weather is gopping and do avoid washing it.
I ride natural and trail centres across the south, usually on my own or with family and the SL has done what I hoped, extending the length of rides I can do before my knee packs up ( I was down to 10-15 miles on the ht, now I'm happy doing 30+ miles). I use eco mostly with turbo for longer hills and usually have about 25% battery left. I have been really happy for how it rides (as an e trail bike) on fun stuff and don't notice any motor resistance in eco going for jumps and on technical sections. Uphill even in turbo I still need to work hard (which I'm happy with) and as expected the Sl takes much more effort than my wife's Cannondale 504w/E7000.
The Sl idea works for me, although if buying again I'd be interested in the better value and extra power (for no weight penalty) of the Rise.
PS: I’d be going for the Rise over the Levo SL, both are compromises, but at least ppl want the Rise. When a better solution (bike) comes along, you’ll be able to flog the Rise
Ironically, the fact that people can't seem to flog em right now is what got me looking at them again. You perhaps won't appreciate just how much my situation has changed, but am viewing this as at least a short to mid term option in replacement of a conventional MTB due to health reasons. I "get" full fat eMTB's, but have also come to the conclusion that other than for "winch & plummet" riding, they're not really for me. I prefer something lighter, a bit shorter in travel, that I can chuck around on our usual trails and prefer to be slightly under biked than over... Remember how much fun the V1 Followings were? 🤔
Besides, a mate's Carbon Levo SL is 16.5kg ready to ride... 2.6" tyres and all! OK it's not a cheap build, but I'd say I'd be dropping below 17.5kg ready to ride on an alloy frame with my kit on it if I went that route. Alloy Rise is 20kg specced up, albeit it has bigger battery. Carbon Rise is around 18kg high spec, might dip to 17.5kg if you really compromise on tyres etc... I know it's not all about weight, but actually when you're only riding tamer trails and got underlying health issues stopping you from benefitting from a bigger/gnarlier bike then it might as well be light... 🤷🏻♂️
You can specify the Shimano SM-EM800 bar mounted display for the bike (extra £89), but yes the LED thing must be a bit crap
New Alloy Rise's seem to be coming with the bar mounted display on stock builds, which is good news at least... 👍🏻
The LED thing can transmit power/battery/cadence info to a Garmin or smartphone if you like.
It does for sure, but my experience of riding MTB with a garmin on the bars/stem is not positive unfortunately... It's an expensive piece of kit that doesn't like staying where you want it to over rough ground, and is easily lost or damaged as a result! Smart phone stays in a pocket for the very same reason...
When you say the Rise was ‘not as integrated as you’d like’ what do you mean?
I guess I mean it's still more visibly an eBike than the Levo SL... OK the EP8 RS is reduced in size compared to a normal EP8, but the visible external loop of cable outer and hoses going over the motor unit don't help either. Small things I know... Not a deal breaker, but it just looks slightly untidy to me.
Cheers to everyone for the feedback. I am putting some serious thought into the Rise too, but there's some cheap 2nd hand barely used Levo SL's creeping onto the market too right now (COVID Purchase regret seems to be building a head of steam!)... The thought of picking an alloy one up for £3-3.5k, selling all the stock components on to realise maybe £500 or so back, and building it with all my own kit and running it for the forseeable is tempting for sure... Especially with Spesh's transferable warranty and the fact the Mahle motor seems much less problematic than the Brose.
EP8 RS is the same size as the EP8.
Mahle motor has it’s quirks and is certainly not trouble free.
OK the EP8 RS is reduced in size compared to a normal EP8,
Its exactly the same motor - just a different firmware, and a different badge on the outside. You can even flash the ep8rs motor with the normal ep8 firmware and get more power - obviously voids warranties etc
Regrets: I have a Levo SL comp (ali frame) which I bought last summer. The kit on it was pretty basic and I've ended up upgrading everything apart from the saddle, stem and dropper (dropper is excellent by the way). The Sram guide brakes were particularly disappointing.
I was able to swap all the good bits off my old Cotic & I've mulleted it.
The bike still feels a bit 'dead' compared with a Cotic Rocket but it's very capable (far more capable than I am). I miss the 'alive' feeling of the Cotic's handling a lot. This isn't just down to the extra 5-6kg; it's just a not as nice a handling bike.
Mboy That is exactly what I did, found one in the lbs with upgraded brakes to Magura, reverb post and invisframed with 150km on it. Also came with range extender and cable.
Was 6 months old and 4k. I may yet sell the extender as have never ran out of charge. Despite my hefty size the internal battery goes a long way. Been round Cannock and Llandegla and had over 60% battery left, using mostly the middle setting.
Only upgrade I have made is putting 160mm Z1 bombers on from old stumpjumper. It also rides virtually the same.
Is easy to pedal with no assistance and don’t notice any drag. Did a 50km bridleway and single track ride with a friend on a normal bike and it pedalled fine with battery switched off.
Chris
I don’t think there’s significant drag from the last gen Levo when the motor is off - if there was then my cruising speed on the flat when commuting would be different between my hardtail and my Levo. But I’m sure it’s easy to notice the loss of assistance and think it’s extra drag, especially if you’re running draggy tyres.
I totally agree that chucking a full-fat ebike about takes more strength than riding the same trails at the same speed on a normal bike, so I can see the appeal of lighter ebikes if that’s a problem!
I don't have an eBike but did demo a Levo SL.
I didn't like it for probably the reason you'd like it - just seemed a compromise, still an eBike but no power.
The Spesh demo-man suggested that the bike wasn't aimed at me, but at someone less fit/able that wanted to ride with me. Sounds like what you're after.
Not sure on what deal you could get but Evans were selling 2021 Experts in large with £2550 off earlier today
Couldnt say for sure as ive not seen that Ad, but Evans have a habit of faffing about parts so its not such a good deal.
eg 2021 levo sl carbon expert.
Spesh has it specced with fox 38 performance elite and a dpx2 shock.-£8950
Same bike at evans- Fox 34 performance, dps shock. - £8500 reduced to £5995
Bit of a difference there.
A little while ago I won a Carbon Expert Levo SL in a competition. Well specced with Code and other SRAM nice stuff. It had the Mahle motor and an extender battery.
Likes:
simple switchgear and the Mission control display which was unobtrusive.
good spec on this bike with upgraded suspension
fitted well
Dislikes:
Motor feel compared to Brose and it was a noisy motor in comparison
Range potential - some big climbs here in Germany and Switzerland
Battery had to be charged in the frame. Not removable.
We have two e-fatbikes with Brose and 630 batteries and compared to these based on motor and range the SL wasn't going to cut it and I'm not afraid of doing the work. I just leave my current bike on eco mostly and get a bigger range or boost a bit on super steeps. When I collected it from Spesh they had a pallet stacked high (200) with the warrantied Mahle motors and I'm sure to a degree Brose are the same.
So, I swapped it for one and a half Turbo Levo Comp with a good/reasonable spec, Brose and 700Wh batteries. I'll get Shimano stuff changed via Pinkbike and the classifieds before they get used. Like me, people have preferences and take stuff unused off new bikes.
FWIW, check out Sams Bikes on youtube for Turbo Levo / Levo SL objective insights.
Basically, a really nice bike but wouldn't work for my circumstances.
I test rode an SL last week. The motor and amount of power was spot on but didn’t like the geo and it’s very poor bang for buck. The comp alloy is circa 19-20kg, you’ll have to spend a heap more for 17-18kg.
Just put a deposit down on a Rise H15 with Fox 36s grip2, upgraded shock and bigger rotors.
I had a brief spin on a Levo sl in the summer. Owned by a dad of one of my riding buddies (buddy is mid/late 30s, guessing pops is early 60s and not an mtber although no doubt “fit for age”)
Me, I’m a not very fit 51 year old carrying too much timber and some old injuries to knee and shoulder. Not exactly ill but def can’t keep up with the group now (could I ever?)
The levo felt like it wasn’t doing very much at all in eco on the shit bastard climb at win hill. That’s a horrid climb that I can clean on a normal bike with a large amount of effort. Sometimes give up and walk the last bit if it’s been a long one. Especially on my old 17kg gnarpoon, not so much on the lighter aether9. Needed the setting up from eco to feel it was much different to my regular bike. I don’t think that’s necessarily a problem but gives an idea.
I haven’t ridden a rise but to me they look more like what I would want should I ever succumb to temptation and get one.
There is only one regular eeb rider in my extended group of riders. If I was riding regularly with people on eebs I would have one by now I think.
I didn’t like it for probably the reason you’d like it – just seemed a compromise, still an eBike but no power.
This is what I don't get with the "POWERRRR" guys on their eBikes, obsessing over outputs and getting their bikes derestricted... I don't want to feel like I'm riding a motorbike when I'm riding a mountain bike. I've got a very powerful motorbike that I enjoy at times (KTM 1290 Superduke GT). I don't get how 1/3rd of a BHP is particularly exciting for those trying to get their power fix... I've got 175 of them on my motorbike! 🤷🏻♂️
The Spesh demo-man suggested that the bike wasn’t aimed at me, but at someone less fit/able that wanted to ride with me. Sounds like what you’re after.
It's coming down to it yes...
I have probably 3 distinct groups of MTB riding friends these days (oh god how much easier was it when all we had to worry about was the antisocial singlespeeders! 😂). They are...
-The full fat eBikers that are either very fit anyway and do a lot of riding along with those who are a bit less fit but have derestricted their eBikes and upgraded the battery capacities... I might stand a chance of keeping up on a 450 KTM basically!
-The die hard "eBikes are cheating" group who are mostly pretty fit. 18 months ago I had no problems keeping up with these guys, 3/4 years ago I'd sometimes even set the pace. For reasons stated in my first post, I need an eBike to keep up (albeit my full fat eBike in ECO is actually a bit much) at the moment.
-Those who have been MTBing for a very long time and have bought a lightweight eBike (Levo SL's mostly) and are evangelical about them, but only tend to ride on their own or with others on lightweight eBikes.
I test rode an SL last week. The motor and amount of power was spot on but didn’t like the geo and it’s very poor bang for buck. The comp alloy is circa 19-20kg, you’ll have to spend a heap more for 17-18kg.
The geo is subjective... Compared to modern LLS bikes then I agree with you totally. My 170mm travel eBike is 64/77 angles and 478mm reach and it's not that long compared to some. But it's also overkill on the trails I ride most. Also, the Levo SL geometry is very close to bikes I was riding 3-4 years ago and loving (Evil Wreckoning, Whyte S-150) geometry wise, and not actually much heavier!
Speaking of weight... Not concerned about value or the kit that comes on the bike, got everything sat waiting (Fox 36's, X01 running gear, choice of brakes and wheels, carbon bars etc.) to upgrade one already. My mates XL Comp Carbon is 16.5kg on the nose, including pedals, on 2.6" tyres, full X01, Hope V4's, carbon bars and rims, Pro4 hubs. It staggered me how light it is, I have friends with heavier unassisted Enduro bikes.
Just put a deposit down on a Rise H15 with Fox 36s grip2, upgraded shock and bigger rotors.
The H15 looks good... A GRIP2 upgrade is a no brainer. But you're up around 21kg now (might get it down under 20kg with some spendy upgrades) with lightweight casing tyres. It's nearly a full fat eBike, albeit a well thought out one with an eye on the weight watching. It'll be great I'm sure, but I can't help thinking I'd be happier on something 4kg lighter with less assistance (EP8 RS has the same 60Nm peak torque of my current E7000, which stays in ECO 99% of the time). Oh and it looks like the H15's aren't shipping til July/August from what I can glean... H10's are available imminently, but I'd immediately upgrade everything on that anyway...
Couldnt say for sure as ive not seen that Ad, but Evans have a habit of faffing about parts so its not such a good deal.
Evans, now owned by Mike Ashley remember, have a reputation of getting their listings wrong. They don't have a history of buggering about with spec on bikes from experience. Looks to me like someone who doesn't know what they were doing wrote the spec on that bike and got the spec from the 2020 bike not the 2021 (which had a fork, drivetrain and shock upgrade, but lost the carbon wheels)...
FWIW, check out Sams Bikes on youtube for Turbo Levo / Levo SL objective insights.
It was his massively enthusiastic review that got me thinking about one if I'm honest! I do find his Aussie idiosyncrasies quite amusing though, especially as he lives in Madrid! 😂
Basically, a really nice bike but wouldn’t work for my circumstances.
Fully get that. Sounds like you live somewhere a lot hillier than I do. My typical MTB ride is (or was) 25-40km with 600-1000m of climbing over a mix of terrain but with a bias of more flowing descents over super techy and mostly fire road climbs. I need something to take the sting off my right knee as I can't put much pressure through it currently, but I can spin 80-100rpm no problems.
Anyway... I just know I'm talking myself into buying one, just can't figure out whether to just pick up a cheap 2nd hand alloy one for around £3k and view it as a bike to get me through this spring/summer to help rehabilitate my knee before I punt it on again for not too much of a loss, or to put quite a bit more in and get a brand new carbon one on a deal and view it as a longer term purchase... Yes, I fully realise that there will likely be a replacement for the current bike sometime later this year, but sounds like it'll just be going longer and slacker and gaining more power if anything, not necessarily things that would make me buy one anyway...
This is what I don’t get with the “POWERRRR” guys on their eBikes, obsessing over outputs and getting their bikes derestricted… I don’t want to feel like I’m riding a motorbike when I’m riding a mountain bike.
I know dozens of MTB ebikers, none of them do this, as it destroys range, obviously.
The only folk I know who do it are commuters.
kiwicraig wrote:
Just put a deposit down on a Rise H15 with Fox 36s grip2, upgraded shock and bigger rotors
ditto (though I didn't upgrade rear shock as it is £70 for Kashima and nothing else really). Due 2nd of February all being well. Couldn't choose colour as the local shop had got their allocation of a single large Rise back in May last year!
Both the bikes on the Evans site are 2021 colours. I thought that the spec was the 2020 one. I cant see Evans swapping parts off a new bike so I would guess they have the wrong year spec in the description
At the price for the Blue grey one if it has the 2021 parts I'm not sure I would even swap the forks, shock and drivetrain out.
@welshfarmer ooo interesting to know you have a specific ETA date of the 2nd of Feb, I read Feb 2022 and assumed it would be the end of the month.
Between the 2nd and the 4th they say. I will believe it when I see it mind!!
If you go through the Orbea website, choose the model, size and colour you want and begin the reservation and buying process it lists all the shops with available delivery slots across the UK. If you are lucky you may still find one for first Feb week delivery. My preferred colour was an August delivery with my local shop but the one I have chosen is not too bad. I note that their next one in the same spec is now not due until October.
I know dozens of MTB ebikers, none of them do this, as it destroys range, obviously.
I know plenty. The one I rode last weekend cruised at nearly 30mph on the flat according to the Garmin. Out of the 6 regular ebike riders I know, 5 are derestricted. None commute on them.
At 30mph, you'll be topping out the gearing on an MTB. Those 10/12t sprockets aren't really designed to have 500+ watts put through them on a regular basis and they won't last very long.
I know plenty. The one I rode last weekend cruised at nearly 30mph on the flat according to the Garmin. Out of the 6 regular ebike riders I know, 5 are derestricted. None commute on them.
Mibbe different in the flatlands of the SE.
I personally wouldnt want to ride at 30mph. No protection, coming off its serious body damage even death.
Yeah I ummed and arrhed about shock but they only had black available so thought it might add a bit of colour. Due April 22nd (in NZ). Dealer was saying they usually fly them in but they put in such a chunky order they’re coming by ship.
All the carbon models are sold out apparently.
@welshfarmer
Do you know if Orbea “delivery” dates are when something leaves the factory or when it should arrive with the dealer (taking into account different shipping times for different countries and vagaries of post brexit deliveries from Europe to Uk)
I have no idea sorry. I am happy to ask my supplier though.
Mibbe different in the flatlands of the SE.
I was in the Midlands at Cannock.
It was slightly tongue in cheek Weeksy, but the point stands. Derestricting an ebike takes away the whole point of it for me, and I know all my mates feel the same - cutting out the uplift and as such, more descending. At the levels required to hit 30mph on one of my local climbs, you'd get one descent in.
If you live near Swinley or cannock, then I suppose battering round those beyond the limiter may be your bag.
Let's not derail this thread though with yet another ebike argument.
Let’s not derail this thread though with yet another ebike argument.
That wasn't my intention
I know, just saying before others start up, as usual.
cutting out the uplift and as such, more descending. At the levels required to hit 30mph on one of my local climbs, you’d get one descent in.
Just a point of clarity, legal ebike motors dontonly have a speed limiter, they also have a power limiter, which limits nominal output to 250w. So if you take a legal Ebike motor and put one of those devices on it that remove the speed limit, it's still limited to 250w nominal, so on a hill of any significant steepness your still not going to go up it much faster than with the speed limiter. There's hills round here that it doesn't matter if you have the speed limiter in place you can only go up it at 10 ish mph because the motor is pegged by the power limiter not the speed limiter.
Tldr: removing the speed limit does not necessarily mean 30mph uphill speeds are acheivable,because there are other limits built into the motor.
It does annoy me slightly that most reviews of these bikes are comparing them to full fat ebikes, where they should be compared to normal non ebikes.
Essentially it's me but with an extra 5kg of weight* (which tbh I'm already carrying!) and with an FTP of 400+w, not 210w.
*I know, weight on you isn't the same as weight on the bike but it makes for an easy comparison.
I know dozens of MTB ebikers, none of them do this, as it destroys range, obviously.
A weekend at BPW or FoD (cycle centre) and you can pretty much tick every single e-biker stereotype out there.
Full fat bikes, derestricted, tearing up the fire road with the saddle down, in turbo doing 45rpm.
Then riding down the trails slower than they go up 😆
Generally they have multiple batteries & swap them out.
I don’t get it, at all, but hey, we’re all different right.
Hob-Nob
Free Member
I know dozens of MTB ebikers, none of them do this, as it destroys range, obviously.A weekend at BPW or FoD (cycle centre) and you can pretty much tick every single biker stereotype out there.
Fixed that for you
Fixed that for you
Very true, but the obvious ****s charging up the busy pedal/push up at 25mph resulting in constant near misses as they overtake, tends to stick in the mind.
It’s a gateway to Siryon ownership 🤦♂️
I just know I’m talking myself into buying one, just can’t figure out whether to just pick up a cheap 2nd hand alloy one for around £3k and view it as a bike to get me through this spring/summer to help rehabilitate my knee before I punt it on again for not too much of a loss, or to put quite a bit more in and get a brand new carbon one on a deal and view it as a longer term purchase…
I guess you have two obvious factors to consider: one is the nature of your knee problem and the prognosis for full recovery. The other is whether, once your knee works again, you'll have any interest in riding the Levo SL.
I haven't touched the borrowed Turbo Levo sat in the corner of the room for around six weeks now because once I'd recovered from long covid and started riding normally again, I found I just wasn't really that interested. Tbf, no-one I ride with regularly has an e-bike, so there's no pressure on that front and I like riding normal bikes. Actucally I love riding normal bikes.
If the SL is just going to be a stop-gap before you get back to normal riding again, then why blow a load of dosh on it, probably makes more sense to get something cheap-ish and sell it on? If you're going to carry on riding it, then maybe a pimped out carbon-framed SL makes more sense. Of course you could go with option A and then upgrade later if you decide it's worth it. All of which is very obvious, but sometimes it helps to break the reasoning down and see past the emotional 'want nice stuff' reflex thing 😉
I'm kind of intrigued by the whole half-fat thing, but I find the range restriction irksome. I'm pondering a big Cut Gate / Roych loop and considered the Levo, but have little confidence that it'll make it round even with some strategic power settings.
It’s all fun, those two places are just a result of the success of biking and centres over the years.
As for the SL, I looked at them but they aren’t in that area I was looking, I went full ebike as I do like the ebike uplift stuff and suffer the extra weight on trail or play stuff, it’s just about what you want as a middle ground, there’s definitely a place for them, but you have to buy it with the ability in mind I’d say.
This is what I don’t get with the “POWERRRR” guys on their eBikes
The EP8rs is only 60nm, that's hardly POWERRRR-ful.
Simply though, if your priority is lightness, the Levo Sl wins.
It’s a gateway to Su-ron ownership
Which last about 2 minutes before they find they can't ride anywhere.
#realshame
I haven't regretted buying my 19 month old Levo SL. Reasons: Age 74 (64kgs) with increasing painful arthritis in my knees & a dodgy back injury from 30yrs ago was limiting my off road riding to 15-18 miles . I first looked at ebikes early 2019 but discounted them due to their heavy weight in lifting up & down into cellar & car.
2020 arrived with Covid & the new Levo SL. I had a demo SL over 2 days use in the Yorkshire Dales. What a revelation! I loved every minute of each ride doing 20+ miles & 2500ft elevation. Knee pain was hardly noticeable & didn't have to stop for backache. Mulled over alloy or carbon for a couple of weeks then ordered the carbon. A mate of mine rides a Trek FS and we've done a fair few rides together. He wins on the big climbs but chases me downhill. Rarely ride trail centres so mainly XC in the Dales, North York Moors, Lakes, Calderdale & my local stuff.
So far ridden over 4000 miles with only normal wear & tear drivetrain replacements. Motor fine & battery still 100%. Upgraded fork to Fox 36 160.
Superb pennine 👌🏻
Many thanks again everyone for chipping in... Quite a few things to think about.
I have had a go on a friends Levo SL now, only very quickly but was enough to tell me the motor assistance is as much as I want and will do enough to take the pressure off my knee during recovery and enable me to go out with my regular riding friends on their regular bikes whilst I recover. His bike was an XL and didn't ride it off road so can't really comment geometry wise as it was too big for me, but it was useful nonetheless.
@pennine... Great news! Glad to hear it's made such a difference. 👍🏻
@BadlyWiredDog you make some good points... The doc has said I should make a full recovery with physio and being careful with it, but it won't be soon. Maybe another 6-9 months at least (it's over 3 months since I damaged my knee). Would I wish to ride a Levo SL as my primary bike if I was 100% fit and healthy? Probably not to be honest... So I think dropping £6k on one (even if it was £9k) for a high end model is probably unwise. I have been offered a used Alloy model that has covered all of 20 miles for £3500, which would make more sense, could put my Fox 36's and wheels on it, ride it until my knee is recovered, then return it to stock and hopefully get most of my £3500 back still... Potentially! Albeit it has raised another question about what would I ride ideally if I was 100% fit and healthy right now anyway... Which brings me back to what Hob-Nob has been saying... Possibly.
With regards to range anxiety though. My mate whose I had a go on last night, he sold his range extender as he never used it! He says he regularly gets up to 30 miles and around 1500m of climbing out of it using the assist sparingly, and would only need the range extender if running it with the power turned up trying to keep up with normal eBikes.
The EP8rs is only 60nm, that’s hardly POWERRRR-ful.
That's what my E7000 has currently, and I have never used that much. Trail mode has only been used a few times, but isn't necessary. Eco is more than enough and gives me roughly 20Nm of assistance, but that's on a 25Nm full fat bike. 18 months ago I was dropping some (admittedly fat and unfit) eBikers up climbs on my XC bike in the Wyre when I guided them round... Yes I worked my bollocks off doing so, but I'm happy to work to get back there. I just need a little assistance in the meantime I think and have also realised I really don't like the effect and extra 10kg of weight has on the handling of an MTB.
May I suggest for those chasing bigger and bigger outputs from their eBike motors, to go and spend a day on a 450 KTM or similar... Seriously!
Hob-Nob will PM you in a bit, have some questions for you. Cheers.
I have been offered a used Alloy model that has covered all of 20 miles for £3500, which would make more sense, could put my Fox 36’s and wheels on it, ride it until my knee is recovered, then return it to stock and hopefully get most of my £3500 back still…
Jesus, I'd rip their hand off at that price!!
I've been pricing up the cheapest kenevo SL, there's no way I could justify keeping my 150/160mm travel jeffsy along with a kenevo sl, or even s rise, so in a couple of years when I'm ready to swap I'll look into it.
Jesus, I’d rip their hand off at that price!!
It's a private sale, and also depends what you want doesn't it... I am still working that out.
I’ve been pricing up the cheapest kenevo SL, there’s no way I could justify keeping my 150/160mm travel jeffsy along with a kenevo sl, or even s rise, so in a couple of years when I’m ready to swap I’ll look into it.
Exactly that... Wondering if a KSL isn't a better long term option, and I get rid of my Geometron G15 too... I don't want or need a 170mm travel 29er, but 5mm spacer in the rear shock will reduce it to around 155mm travel, and drop fork travel to 160mm and run the BB in the high setting along with lighter wheels and fast(er) rolling rear tyre, could be a good option for general use, then swap some heavier wheels and tyres in for heavier duty riding possibly...
I'd leave the shock and fork alone, swapping wheels out will make the biggest difference to rolling speed and handling. you could well end up buggering up the kinematics of the back end.
Nowt
Demo booked for this Saturday coming thanks to Ace cycles in Monmouth.
Sizing is a tricky one though. Swung my leg over an S5 and it felt huge, on paper should be the same size as my G1, are spesh true to their word or doing a Trek with fudging the numbers slightly ?
A little while ago I won a Carbon Expert Levo SL in a competition.
fitted well
......
So, I swapped it for one and a half Turbo Levo Comp with a good/reasonable spec,
Am I right in thinking you swapped it at Specialized themselves?
Im pretty surprised/ impressed they did that, as it's not a great look for them that someone won their high in the range e-bike and said they didn't want it even for free and swapped it for something else...
(Though I guess it probably happens quite a lot in that type of competition...)
Sizing is a tricky one though. Swung my leg over an S5 and it felt huge, on paper should be the same size as my G1, are spesh true to their word or doing a Trek with fudging the numbers slightly ?
If it's any use to you I also have a G1 in Longest and ride a Kenevo fullfat in S4.
I didn't even try the S5 as I'd not have been able to get a 180 dropper in.
The S4 does feel a tad small to me but I soon adapt to it.
I bought a new SL Expert in battleship grey last week after selling my 2014 Camber. Used the Evan's promotion to get the price down ( not to £6000 mind, but close). My mate who has a Kenevo SL Expert bought his GF the same bike through Evan's. They both have 36 Performance and DPX2.
Anyway, lovely bike, plenty of punch out of the corners, enough assistance if you spin fast and just feels like a fun bike out of the box. I need a new seat and I'll probably swap the gears to XX1 AXS next time im in Europe but for now ( having just lifted it onto my tailgate bike rack without hurting myself) I'm really chuffed with it.
