[Closed] Lets see your race CX bikes please (also canti vs disc for racing question)

UCI have banned discs from next season but I dont know if thats just for top level racing or across the board

Wasn't that an April 1st story...?

Yeah it was an April 1st joke, bloody funny one though, well written.

edit:
Canti's all the way, don't know of any team mates switching to disks, but do know of two are are moving back to cantis after trying them for a season.
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Ah well I fell for it then !It would fit in with many of the daft rule changes made by them over the years Graeme O`bree had fun with them in the days of his hour record attempts

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only white because they were cheaper!

race mode

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canti's absolutely fine for racing.

It would fit in with many of the daft rule changes made by them over the years

Indeed. You're not the only one who found it perfectly credible 🙂

Recently retired this and its twin sister. Waiting for new plastic frames to arrive for the coming season. I won't be switching to discs for a long time.

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[URL= http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx252/leeshunburne/Cross%20bike%20Jan%202013/20130119_093817_zps9370c4e3.jp g" target="_blank">http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx252/leeshunburne/Cross%20bike%20Jan%202013/20130119_093817_zps9370c4e3.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Nice. Is that a Ti frame with a Kinesis fork? Headtube looks very long but it's probably the skinny tubes.

What's braking like on carbon rims in CX race conditions?

Yes, Ti and Kinesis Pure forks. Braking's fine, well, as good as you need it to be. Shorty Ultimates are the best cantis I've used and they're very tunable, in that you can set them up exactly how you like them.

The headtube's long, 22cm, as that's what I asked for. I'm tall and don't like spacers!

What's braking like on carbon rims in CX race conditions?

Really good! i've got yellow swiss top and personally think they are better than alloy rims in the dry.. wet is fine too

then again.. i'm running V brakes with travel adjusts

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Any opinions on mini v's? Most people seem to go canti so assume they aren't that great.

Mini Vs work well, much better than cantis (I've got them on my training bike) but there's next to no mud clearance so I wouldn't want to race on them.

before discs, I used standard v-brakes with travel agents which worked really well. Same power as discs just maybe a bit less modulation and obviously still rim wear. Most CX race courses probably don't need that much braking, mind.

Old bike had cantis, then mini-v with Travel Agents; current bike is cantis; next bike will be plastic and have discs. I tend to focus my cross racing/training on 3 Peaks though so power, modulation and durability are important - went through a complete set of v pads on last year's event and ended up braking by suicidal riding in to the verges on the way down Pen-y-Ghent Lane and then had to unclip and drag my feet to get back in to Helwith Bridge and the finish...

ended up braking by suicidal riding in to the verges on the way down Pen-y-Ghent Lane and then had to unclip and drag my feet

😯 😀

ended up braking by suicidal riding in to the verges on the way down Pen-y-Ghent Lane and then had to unclip and drag my feet

😉

Budget racer ebay special.
Weigh frame, ITM forks, Campag 1x10, Shimano CX50 brakes.
[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8484/8170625391_b0a964063b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8484/8170625391_b0a964063b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikes_and_stuff/8170625391/ ]cross[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikes_and_stuff/ ]bmclynskey1[/url], on Flickr[/img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8468/8128752302_e20f5ce613.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8468/8128752302_e20f5ce613.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikes_and_stuff/8128752302/ ]rc[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikes_and_stuff/ ]bmclynskey1[/url], on Flickr

Still undecided on canti v disc. Won't be doing any epic races so thinking canti.

Any Chinese CX frame builds out there?

Hopefully getting one of these, will possibly enter a race if I think I'll have the time to get fit enough. Cranks are wrong in the pic, it will have SRAM force 22 groupset. As for brakes? If you want to go faster you don't need brakes 😀 I can see why commuter/nodders would like disks but for cross they are not essential

[img] [/img]

Any Chinese CX frame builds out there?

ask clubber.. think he's got one on order

Not a racer but curious: are there any actual [i]disadvantages[/i] to disc brakes, other than the style/purist element?

Is the difference in weight or aero performance that much of an issue in CX races?

well, they're heavier and there's probably less choice of frame out there.

Also, in some particular muddy conditions, discs have been eating pads to the point of no braking - more so than cantis - though a solution is apparently to use discs without holes drilled in them (though this adds more weight) but again, there aren't many available yet.

Also, in some particular muddy conditions, discs have been eating pads to the point of no braking - more so than cantis - though a solution is apparently to use discs without holes drilled in them (though this adds more weight) but again, there aren't many available yet.

Curious how this would be different to a muddy XC race. Is it just the quality of brakes available or something to do with power/modulation being not as good hence more dragging?

Clubber, you got a Chinese CX bike? Would be great to see photos.

Chinese CX - yes, I have one - I got an MC098 from Miracle/Icann via Alibaba.

It's fantastic BUT and this is quite a big but, it has a crack in it. I'm 99% sure (because of location and the lack of further growth after the initial ride, not to mention that the bike still rides fine and it's done some pretty bumpy rides now) it's just a filler crack (so cosmetic only) but it is there and I'd have preferred that it wasn't.

It's basically a [url= http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/altamira_cx_13 ]Fuji Altamira Disc[/url] ([url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/cyclo-cross/product/review-fuji-altamira-cx-13-46777 ]review[/url])

[url= http://images.everytrail.com/pics/original/6087680-pic_54.jp g" target="_blank">http://images.everytrail.com/pics/original/6087680-pic_54.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
click for full size

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click for full size

Curious how this would be different to a muddy XC race

I don't know. Maybe it's just BS but there have definitely been races in the US (where disc uptake is higher than Europe) where the bikes with discs had real problems while those without didn't.

EDIT: http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/bright-future-for-disc-brakes-fades-briefly-under-a-coating-of-verona-mud_271112

It's possibly just an issue with using non-sintered pads. I know that at Mountain Mayhem, some people have had similar ish problems.

Shame its a matt finish clubber, that would have been easy enough to tart up if it was gloss.

I specifically asked for (and paid about £20 more for!) matt - a shiny CX bike would look crap very quickly was my thinking.

Besides, I'll soon (once I'm happy that it's definitely not getting any bigger) be putting a sticker over it 🙂 Problem solved!

And you would be correct, cracks aside 😉

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I use swisstop race pro yellows and have never found myself wanting for more stopping power.

The discs vs cantis is a tough one. I fancy discs for my next cross bike, one because I also use it as a commuter and I think they'll work better for this, and two I like the security that better brakes give.

Having said that, there are some many reasons to stay with cantis. My wheels are all cantis and having a lot of spare wheels is very helpful. I don't feel my brakes are holding me back in races(if you get what I mean).

If top euro guys are staying with cantis and you can be sure they've tested both and won't be fussed about fasion if they're faster with discs.

MM what's the TCX like? Lbs does them and I'd quite like to get something from them.

MM what's the TCX like?

I love it and it's very light. Mine is the 2nd tier with carbon forks. It has a different stem, seatpost, saddle and wheels now as the standard ones are heavy.

If you're about on the 13th June for the Newbury CX then pop along and have a look/ go on it.

Thanks, I may well do. Is it the Alu one? Did you buy it as a frame only?

It's the Alu one with carbon fork. I bought it as a whole bike but have changed a few things. Groupset is Sram Rival.

SS and canti's 🙂

It's basically a Fuji Altamira Disc (review)

Sorry for your problems but I wouldnt touch anything from FUJI as they are bobbins, I hope your bike isnt as bad as the ones my mate has to put up with as part of the NetApp-Endura team.

they are shocking, the worst frames we have ever seen, just weak bendy junk.

Well as I said it rides nicely so I've got no issue there.

Perhaps you are just used to riding weak bendy junk? 😉

Could be. I find though that any bendiness quickly makes itself apparent to a gentleman of my erm... strength 🙂

Don't have a picture to hand but mine is a Kinesis Pro6. Definitely not an all out racing fram as it has rack and bottle mounts. Fast though, I really like it.

As for the cantis vs. discs. arguement I've run discs, vees and cantis. I replaced the vees after a few muddy races where they balled up and jammed the wheel. Cantis were fine for racing and passable for general riding. I wanted a new frame and decided to go with discs. Love them, much prefer them, don't need them for racing but it isn't just about need. Although they did help massively on the three peaks.

If I wanted a pair of all out race bikes I think I would go cantis for the weight of the brakes and frame but also the massive choice and better prices.

Heres mine. Ridley X-Ride.
I did not want the disk option .. its a race bike after all.

That said. The canti brake pads do dissolve pretty quickly .. 2-3 wet rides.

But a race is only an hour .. so no probs
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Now with hope hydraulic brakes Slr saddle. I love this bike!!

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8391/8570858247_852aeee011.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8391/8570858247_852aeee011.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbosussexmtb/8570858247/ ]Kinesis Five T[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jimbosussexmtb/ ]South Downs MTB Skills[/url], on Flickr

I've just swapped the cantis out for mini v's and it is much better, front brake judder has been eradicated at last.

My Kona Major Jake - great bike, not used for races but weapon of choice for cheeky expeditions along the coastal path on Gower!!

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8255/8635684702_f9a39fbef9_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8255/8635684702_f9a39fbef9_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/82598458@N05/8635684702/ ]james 025[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/82598458@N05/ ]jamesanderson2010[/url], on Flickr

For racing canti's are fine. For more extreme days out discs are better. See, you need two cx bikes now!
[IMG] [/IMG]

Felt F6x for me...

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8471/8110292706_232ba3a92d_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8471/8110292706_232ba3a92d_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/simondbarnes/8110292706/ ]Muddy Cross[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/simondbarnes/ ]simondbarnes[/url], on Flickr

Mine, well I only own 1 CX bike so it's for racing, commuting and general road riding. I can't see how the pads would wear any quicker than they would on an MTB race, if anything the discs are further away from the mud than they would be on 26er..

Ok no good if you want a bike with snob value, but its very nice to ride.

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I'm still on my first set of pads. Done one CX sesason, the 3 peaks and probably a few hundred miles of road and bridleway.

See, you need two cx bikes now!

N+1 always holds true!

Thanks all. Loads of nice bikes there. Most likely go cantis based on what I've read here and elsewhere. And as it so happens by LBS have a Giant TCX in my size that they are kindly building up for me to "have a look at" but not buy. Most definitely absolutely positively not to buy. Hmm though it would go nicely with my TCR 🙂

Edit: Nice Crosslights too. High up on my list.

Any Spesh Crux's out there...? Seems like a nice racey bike.

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/8956707023_43f0b031f4_m.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/8956707023_43f0b031f4_m.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

This is one of Helen Wymans old bikes so it's been well raced (she's currently ranked 4th in the world), see http://www.helenwyman.com/

Currently in it's hacking around the woods mode. I find that canti's are OK if you are mechanically minded enough to set them up properly, otherwise I'd definitely go for disc brakes.

I can't see how the pads would wear any quicker than they would on an MTB race

The theory is that cable discs work differently from hydralic discs. They only move one pad and they don't self adjust. The pads are also apparently thinner because of this.
I have no idea of this is true or not.

Yes, only one pad moves, to press the disc into the other.
They are, however, the same thickness as hydro (Often the same actual pad)

DrP

Pads are the same on bb7 as one of the other avid brakes.

I have a theory...

There is now a bit in the 3 peaks about disk brakes and the ability to maintain them on the course. I wonder if people are using them and the pads are wearing and they are trying to adjust them using the barrel adjusters. On bb7s I've found this to be insufficient as one side wears much faster. While most of the time it works occasionally you need to wind in one side or both. I thought I'd nearly worn out my pads on the 3 peaks as I was adjusting them with the barrel on the move. Got to the bottom and the finish expecting to be nearly at the metal but there was loads of pad left. Wound them in and they are fine. They don't self centre like people are used to with hydraulics.

TBH I suspect that it's more because CX races are more commonly muddly than mtb races - not so much here because it's always muddy here but more in the US and Europe. As such, they're just seeing what we often see in the UK (eg non-sintered pads killed by 1 wet/muddy/sandy ride) but aren't used to it.

Yes, only one pad moves, to press the disc into the other.

Anyone know [i]why[/i] they work like that? Surely it'd be pretty simple to make a cable-pull calliper where both pads move? Like.. err.. rim brakes for instance?

There is now a bit in the 3 peaks about disk brakes and the ability to maintain them on the course. I wonder if people are using them and the pads are wearing and they are trying to adjust them using the barrel adjusters. On bb7s I've found this to be insufficient as one side wears much faster. While most of the time it works occasionally you need to wind in one side or both. I thought I'd nearly worn out my pads on the 3 peaks as I was adjusting them with the barrel on the move. Got to the bottom and the finish expecting to be nearly at the metal but there was loads of pad left. Wound them in and they are fine. They don't self centre like people are used to with hydraulics.

Which is why I'll be going for a V-Twin set up on my new bike. Note though, that they never previously said anything about being able to maintain rim brakes and mine were destroyed last year...

Anyone know why they work like that? Surely it'd be pretty simple to make a cable-pull calliper where both pads move?

There are a few options out there, but most people wont look beyond BB7's

Why is because it's simpler and in the real world it works well enough. Given that mechanical systems don't self adjust, there's less benefit to having two moving pads.

That said, the new Tektro Spyre is mechanical and has two moving 'pistons'.

My old disco...

[IMG] [/IMG]

... forget that... probably better to start another thread!

Why is because it's simpler and in the real world it works well enough.

Yeah, my BB7s work really well, I like em, but I do get the occasional "skiff" from the rotor brushing the un-retracted pad.

not enough to make any impact at all on speed - just enough to make me wonder about the design reasoning.