I've moaned elsewhere on this forum about the recent developments in Bristol. But my ride in Leight Woods yesterday was so depressing that I need a whole new post to vent my frustrations.
Leigh woods used to be one of the best places around for natural singletrack. Yes, it got a bit gloopy in the winter, but there were enough trails and few enough riders that it was always enjoyable.
Yesterday the woods were heaving. The man made trails were so busy that they were unrideable. Every second corner I was held up by some numpty. And they are as dull as dishwater to ride, pedal, corner, pedal, corner, pedal, corner etc...
So, I thought I'd get back onto the old trail network for a bit of fun. But most of these trails have either been destroyed by the diggers used to build the new trails, been blocked by logs or sticks, or destroyed by overuse from the hordes of new riders. Yup, the steep tracks seem untouched, but it's hard work pushing back up.
Never again will the woods be like it was. The only positves I can see is more bike sales and some new trails for beginners.
There is no provision for more experienced riders who will now have to travel. No more quick hour rides for me, pretty much all I can regularly fit in with a young family. So effectively my riding is over! Now I really am shedding a tear.
get involved with building new trails there?
🙂
Some of the old (aguably tired) trails have been erased, but there's still plenty of cheeky stuff around. You need to look harder & rather than bitching about trail blockages, get off your bike & clear the trail.
Let's put this logically.
The more advanced riders want more challenging riding (not that most of LW ever was or ever could be). Without more basic trails there never really could be any legit work to make more challenging trails. There are now more basic trails.
You could dry your eyes and get involved in making the trails or improving them as phil said. Just a thought seeing as you're not riding.
OP - I agree with you. The natural trails have been replaced by a single-lane, super-smooth, BMX-style pump-n-berm track. I made similar disgruntled noises a while back on another thread but, apparently, these trails are what everyone wanted...
However, I'm sure that new cheeky trails will spring up in Leigh Woods much like they are starting to again in 50-Acre Wood after the recent forestry work.
Bah.
Stop moaning?
Be more tolerant?
Ride somewhere else?
Ride it faster?
Appreciate that it's now all-weather?
Appreciate that some people have put a shed-load of time and effort into doing the work?
Be thankful that it'll get more people on bikes?
I'm an experienced mountainbiker. I quite enjoyed Yer Tiz.
🙂
Stop moaning?[i] - Maybe
[/i]Be more tolerant?[i] - Maybe
[/i]Ride somewhere else?[i] - The point of my thread is that my usual place has been detstroyed.
[/i]Ride it faster?[i] - And then get held up by even more people.
[/i]Appreciate that it's now all-weather?[i] - Maybe[/i]
Be thankful that it'll get more people on bikes? [i]- More people to get in my way and overuse and destroy any new trails that do crop up.[/i]
I'm an experienced mountainbiker. I quite enjoyed Yer Tiz.[i] - Tiz boring and not mountain biking![/i]
Theres plusses and minuses as always but to be honest, the amount of time it took them to do it i was expecting something much better. Theres much more than just Leigh Woods around there too, go have a look around. If you want to build some trails, theres always the plantation that needs some work at the moment!!
LW was pretty crap once it started raining in winter (i.e. most of it), you ended up with a 1:1 ratio of riding to bike cleaning. 50acre still exists (and some other cheeky options) for those that want more natural trails. I think they could have done some things better in LW but still think it's a lot better than it used to be and more cyclists out and about is a good thing...
The more advanced riders want more challenging riding (not that most of LW ever was or ever could be).
Really, I always thought the knicker trail, and the cheeky one by the fort was pretty technical, mind you I suppose some people don't find 6ft drops or gaps technical; so you must be a riding god /swoon
The point of my thread is that my usual place has been destroyed.
What made it "your" place? Did you ever try and fix up the old trails there? Help maintain official trails so that riders wouldn't thrash the fragile unofficial ones to death? Abstain from riding in the wet? (If you're riding there now, I bet the answer to that last question is a no, seeing how we've just had the most rain in months).
I'm sure that new cheeky trails will spring up in Leigh Woods
Maybe try looking a bit further afield, rather than hammering more muddy tracks through a really popular and environmentally important bit of woodland?
When you look at the bigger picture, we've "lost" maybe two or three miles of very variable trail, and gained something that is going to get loads more people out enjoying the woods.
Yesterday the woods were heaving
Yes, how dare other people enjoy going for a bike ride...
Listen, if you can't find the old network then you don't know it as well as you think you do, and in any case, this time of year is not a good time to be riding it.
It was extremely busy yesterday. Struggled to park anywhere!
There were all types of riders on the trails, from beginners to riders who thought they owned the trail.. One nearly went into the back of me, obviously couldn't see the 20+ mountain bikers in front, hence lack of speed.
It was good to see so many riders of all abilities and all types of bikers having fun!
It's great to have a trail that can be ridden all year round, if you're after a mudfest, there are trails in other locations you can ride. Don't want to do that, then join the trail builders, I'm sure they will welcome you with opening arms, as long as you don't constantly moan. 😉
Yes, it got a bit gloopy in the winter
Bit of an understatement... I don't really mind mud but it really was getting increasingly trashed year on year as mtbing has got more popular. The local volunteers just couldn't ever keep up with the work so it needed something doing before it was just a 10ft wide mud motorway.
It strikes me that the people doing the work (eg Bristol Trail Group) to keep the trails rideable had the right to take a view on what the new solution should be (or at least be involved in the discussion) on the basis that it was only a matter of time before things got properly ruined. There was also plenty of consultation for those that got involved.
FWIW, it's new and as such, very busy. Give it a while and things will calm down. Or just time it to go at other times. As to what it is, yes, I'd prefer it a bit more natural but I can accept that what we've got is a reasonable compromise and certainly much better than the mud motorway I mentioned. It will also get rougher over time as it wears in. No it'll never be the idyllic singletrack that it was for about two weeks of some years if it dried out, in the years before it became so well known but those days were already gone IMO.
IMHO, if you're not feeling the love of Yer Tiz, ride it faster.
If you find it too busy, try ride early in the am or ride at night? I'm over there 8ish most Sundays and there's normally only one or two other people on the trail; three loops of Yer Tiz + a loop of the Nova trail should see you a good hard hours blast.
Personally, I quite like not suffering a mudfest every ride during the winter (and spring and summer and autumn!). It's awesome to see all the kids out on the new trails, which can only be a great thing - maybe we'll see the next Hart/Fairclough/Bryceland hailing from Bristol?
It was very very busy on Sunday wasn't it! First time out on that trail with my 4yo lad, he loved it but did get a bit annoyed with having to stop to let people past all the time, but then that was my fault for not getting there until 10am.
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Oh, and a big thank you to all the people who passed us, everyone was really pleasant and the nipper loves people telling him how good he is (don't we all), so it really encourages him. 🙂
Nice one Sammy, you out tonight?
Having some armoured trails in the local area to ride over winter is a Godsend. I'm hoping Lord Bath builds something similar in Longleat forest.
Seen this time and time again in various forms, it's an interesting one. An old set of trails near my old house were a haunt that only myself and a couple of other people rode - you could go one week to the next and notice only 1 or 2 other tyre prints over your last set. Was fun to clear It was a lovely loop. But highways agency (not really, but seemed like it) came along and opened it up to disabled access and other trail users where previously it required stout walking boots or a bike. Demolished, lined with gravel and utterly dull to ride. Sure it was a mud fest in the winter, sure few people used it and converting it to it's current state meant more people could use it and did use it in all weathers, but totally wrecked the route. Always happens, popularity of a spot or sport increases and people move in to make it more popular and help out but trash the existing facilities that have otherwise been coping just fine with the low traffic level.
Sam, don't you realise that unless you take your son on some horrible muddy trails that he can't ride, or keep him inside until summer, he'll never get into [b]proper [/b]mountain biking? 😉
@ransos: Unfortunately not, rare to get on a club ride these days because of looking after said nipper! 🙂
Damn! Didn't realise this Ant, and he's just put some slicks on for the new trails too! 😉
Coffeeking, you're not from round here, are you? In many places round Bristol the new trails have actually narrowed what was there before. Here's a picture taken mid-build in Ashton Court that illustrates this nicely. The muddy straight bit is the line of the old trail, the twisty gravel marks the new. Since that photo was taken, the old trail has been covered over and should revegetate over time.
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I always thought the knicker trail, and the cheeky one by the fort was pretty technical
As I said, which you quoted...
[b]most[/b] of LW
Add up all of the knicker and anything else from the picnic table down. Then add up all of the rest of the trails in LW. The 'rest of the trails' will be the larger number ergo 'most'.
I don't find the new trails very interesting or engaging, but that's just me & [i]my[/i] particular taste in singletrack. I have no problem with a beginner friendly 'blue loop' - although it's hardly going to stop people straight-lining down Picnic Bench, is it?
It [i]does[/i] bug me that the Rim/DLD trail has been sanitised and is now effectively one way - I've spent years climbing [b]up[/b]* that bit of trail, and that stretch along the bluff was always a highlight (top spot for chilling out, too). Whatever the ongoing status of stealth stuff elsewhere, that is a big loss, imo. I'm not saying this to push anybody's buttons - it's just how I view things. Also, I'm all for more people enjoying the woods, but everybody should now take extra care with their speed. It's possible to hit sections at a far greater pace than in ye olde days, and I'm willing to bet that other LW users won't always be keeping off the new trails (I've already encountered people walking up them). LW isn't an 'open' environment like AC, and they won't always see you coming.
(*I do find the notion of directional trails in woodland rather bizarre, tbh. Ever since I was a muddy snot-nosed Mendip kid, a good XC trail has been a good trail in [i]either[/i] direction - a nice descent becomes a challenging climb, and vice versa. And for me, at least, riding in woods has never been about rollers and whoops - it's about the ever-changing variables of dirt, roots (especially roots!) and tree cover. Hell, it's just about being in the woods - and away from built infrastructure of any kind. Sections in LW may have been getting bombed out, but - frankly - that pales in comparison with the upheaval of forestry clearance. I understand the concerns about heavy traffic, but sometimes I think we forget just how fast the jungle can claim things back...).
Again, I'm not trying to pish anybody off - I'm just saying, like. 🙂
Does "fun" riding means axle deep puddles and riding unpleasant gloop at 5mph? LW isn't the only spot in Bristol. I have an OS map the OP can borrow if they dont already have one. It's the green blobs with pictures of trees you want to look out for...
The only thing nearly bringing me to tears is my inability to manual those 4-in-a-row rollers in AC!
Does "fun" riding means axle deep puddles and riding unpleasant gloop at 5mph?
Some of what has gone was utterly bombed out, no question. But some of it was riding nicely right up until the day it disappeared.
Anyway, what's done is done.
everybody should now take extra care with their speed
The new trail in Leigh Woods seems to have been built quite cunningly, with choke sections and good lines of sight at crossings. Before you could just pop out across the path at full whack, not ideal.
Directional trails and waymarked trails go hand in hand. Yes it may interfere with your personal perception of what mountain biking's about, but then you're not responsible for the safety or enjoyment of the people using the trails.
Sections in LW may have been getting bombed out, but - frankly - that pales in comparison with the upheaval of forestry clearance.
Clear cutting spells complete destruction or loss for most MTB trails (although we've managed to uncover a fair bit of the trails in the Plantation already). What was happening in LW was more like a slow death, with the trails getting wetter, wider and less fun to ride with every year.
The only thing nearly bringing me to tears is my inability to manual those 4-in-a-row rollers in AC!
I think there's a definite correlation between the amount of skillz one has and your enjoyment of the new trails. Basically, if you can't pump, manual and jump (and here I hold my hand up with the lamest of you), you're not going to enjoy them to their fullest. Fortunately they're a great place to learn.
Loop it in with AC hit them hard and fast, shout at the slower riders in front to move aside for you, it makes for a fun and interesting [s]race[/s] ride.
Stop trolling, KT 😉
You got to have the right bike. I rode my mates rigid kona explosif round it and it was amazing. Pumping is the key around that course and if you hit it fast with mates it's great fun
Moi trolling? No honestly It's the way to do it.
I will admit that I find Gert Lush taxing on a SS.
"Fortunately they're a great place to learn."
That is the genius of these new trails - they are safe enough for children to roll around, but to ride them fast without braking takes real skills - more than I have. There's loads of development opportunity in there for me.
Before you could just pop out across the path at full whack
New trails = even fuller whack, mind. I do recognise the thought (and hard work) that has gone into them, especially at junctions - I guess my concern is that LW can be a pretty confusing environment (e.g. walkers crossing in the depths of the wood).
As I said, I'm not trying to push buttons. My preference would have been for a slightly different blue route, and gentle tweaking along the Rim/DLD (and leaving it as a two-way trail). I know that you & the BTG were feeling increasingly like Sisyphus, but the tweaking was appreciated. And yes, now that I'm back in Brizzle I will try and help out (esp in 50 Acre). 😀
...is the correct response. 😉
Coffeeking, you're not from round here, are you? In many places round Bristol the new trails have actually narrowed what was there before. Here's a picture taken mid-build in Ashton Court that illustrates this nicely. The muddy straight bit is the line of the old trail, the twisty gravel marks the new. Since that photo was taken, the old trail has been covered over and should revegetate over time.
No, though I have ridden around there a bit. Personally I prefer my riding a bit less "prescribed" to be honest. Anyone modifying the "natural" trails to an armour plated highway isn't my favourite person. As I say, it happens a lot and generally, though not always, someone who dislikes the status quo thinks the trail should be modified to how they want it, at the expense of others. If you want prescribed trails then go scratch build elsewhere instead of modifying existing routes.
KINGTUT - Member
Wheeze round at a comfortably pensioneresque pace, make mental note of which bike part to replace with improbably expensive novelty carbon equivalent this week, finish at the Cottage for a recovery pint or three.Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post
LOLs so true, not nowadays though.
EDIT: Although I have just bough some carbon Avids. 😳
correct response
Ha, I look forward to tweaking in the woods. I'm an archaeologist - I actually have a [i]degree[/i] in digging holes (usually for myself, on the internet). 8)
just count yourself lucky, OP and others, that you actually have some riding anywhere near where you live. could be worse!
just count yourself lucky, OP and others, that you actually have some riding anywhere near where you live. could be worse!
Indeed, half hour road ride/climb and I'm there straight from my door, absolutely fantastic.
Another reminder of what those lovely old trails used to be like. Why ruin this by armouring it, eh?
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And that is in the middle of summer...
... and what it used to look like in 2006, a smooth track through the trees:
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Actually that's in AC, the part of upper quarry that had the little rock step/lump on it but turned into a 6m wide mud slick before the rebuild.
Another reminder of what those lovely old trails used to be like. Why ruin this by armouring it, eh?
Doesn't look too bad to be honest, but it looks no better armoured.
Is that last pic the bit by the lime kiln? You know, where they used to bake limes back in the olden days 😉
Before we knew that it was a lime kiln (still had a citrusy smell y'know) and rode it lots, that was one of my fave bits of the trail. Ah, those were the days 🙂
Link all 3 trails together and you got a half decent ride,learn to ride it fast and its even beter,
looks like its gonna hold out well and its 20mins away 🙂
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Lime Kiln Trail 11th September 2004 (worra fat bastard).
Living close to good trails isnt luck, it's a matter of priorities.
I know this AC / LW stuff has been done to death, my tuppenth worth is that I was a bit disappointed to find new LW to pretty much be new AC Mk II and didnt really think that was necessary. Allows the area to cope with the anticipated growth in riders maybe, but doesnt add variety. If I want to learn to pump and manual*, I can do that in AC or Cumberland, I was hoping for slightly less of the same over the road. I dont consider either trail to be jumpy though? There does seem to be a trend in smooth, bermy, rolly blue graded type trails springing up around the country. FoD Verderers has the elevation to play with, unfortunately AC/LW doesnt benefit from this and so doesnt really do it for me (up or down).
I never got round to maintaining the old trails, so dont really feel entitled to critise what has been done. It's too muddy to check, but I presume the old steep trails are unchanged, along with Garlic trail etc?
Hopefully the natural trails will return in spring, I'll be helping by trying to ride them if they're still there. Plus I came across some good stuff in Bourton Combe, Dundry and Combe Dingle this year that adds to a longer ride.
* actually I cant, I've tried and failed miserably.
Lime Kiln Trail 11th September 2004 (worra fat bastard).
I'm talking from well before then - 95ish - it was much better - a nice little dip down and a hop up if you got your speed just right. Tricky in the wet and particularly when riding the trail uphill (it didn't have a 'direction' then...)
particularly when riding the trail uphill
I remember one ride shortly after I started riding round Bristol (must have been early 2000s) where I set off up that trail and had to turn back half way along it, it was so sh!te. Memories, misty watercolor memories. 🙂
Have to agree with AgentDagnamit that there is a bit of a dearth of challenging legit stuff round Bristol in the wake of Still closing (indeed, Still aside, there always has been) - we're planning to try and get some action on this in 2012.
Only one person (Agentdagnamit)in this entire thread has mentioned the riding potential that exists to those able to read an OS map of North Somerset! There are a shedload of challenging bridleways and singletracks, all within easy cycling of LW and AC.
The fact i rarely see another rider says it all really although tyre tracks suggest others do ride on my local trails.
nickegg
got an emailable map ?
me too
nickegg
Well I rode it last Monday in the pissing down rain and thoroughly enjoyed it. Throw in a lap or 2 of AC and maybe a bit of a slither around 50 acre and I reckon there's a decent morning's riding to be had.
In my (limited) experience of what these trails used to be like I'm quite happy with what's been done. Although not completely trashed the old stuff was getting progressively worse year on year and it was a real struggle for Ant and his band of merry trailbuilders to keep up with it.
We're blessed with so much good riding around here (and I live in Swindon), if these new trails aren't your thing then buy yourself an o/s map and go explore
Anyone modifying the "natural" trails to an armour plated highway isn't my favourite person
Miles from anywhere and I might agree. On the doorstep of a bike-promoting city centre? LW was more of a mess than not and it was getting worse every year. This is only my 3rd winter here and I can see the degredation of the natural trails in that short time.
Explore elsewhere. I've found some fun loops out North from Emersons Green that join up some nice (and some gloopy) bridleways. Only seen 2 other tyre trails in all that time.
What's worse, an armoured trail or a trashed "natural" trail? Argue amongst yourselves, forever.
agentdagnamit - Member
Living close to good trails isnt luck, it's a matter of priorities.
if only...
Is the OP really complaining that the new trails were busy the weekend after they were officially opened next door to a city that's been promoting cycling like petrol's running out?
Wait for more population growth OP.
Jeebers, we have to enters sportives at 00:01 hrs as they fill up.
Hope the trails improve as I want to move back to brizzle and close to Wales for the mtb.
Trails are to be shared.
nickegg - I'd be interested to know the trails you're talking about too. I've done loads of exploring around N Somerset and there are some great trails (and some decent cheeky ones) but IMO they tend to be a bit tame for an mtb but great on a cx bike. I'd be keen to see if I've missed anything though.
OP you really do have a selfish attitude. How dare your trails be busy with other people enjoying them and getting in your way!
You mention that you have young kids, can you not see the benefit of the new trails to your kids in a few years time and the benefit to all people who other wise would be sat at home wasting their life in front of a TV?
I admit they are a bit mind numbing but to be honest the old trails weren't much fun in the winter and I turned to the road bike for much of it. Now I'm enjoying regular night rides and when it drys up a little there are plenty of untouched trails in LW and as others have said plenty of other trails within cycling distance.
nickegg - shut up! You'll have loads of noobs on MY local trails. Then they'll get 'armoured' 😡
I like the work in LW and AC. I think they've done an ace job of making biking more sustainable in the local area. The new trail bed will be just right in a few years time. There was no way the BTG could have hoped to keep up, however committed to the cause.
It was frankly embarrassing how much of a mess MTBing had made of the woods, and was doing us no favours at all. It was fix it, or in a few years, get banned IMO. You'd have moaned then!
As ever though, peeps who go exploring discover all the juicyest bits.
Having ridden round AC and LW last night, I have to say the trails are standing up to the weather and heavy use remarkably well - I think that overall, it's a vast improvement on what we had before. If you want natural trails, there are plenty of those in the Mendips. Take a snorkel...
I rode AC/LW a lot a few years ago. I returned again last summer and I was dismayed that one of my all time favourite trails, the Quarry Trail, had been resurfaced. Initially I hated it. I used to love the rough, rocky surface and the fact it was a tough, technical trail
But, I very soon realised that it HAD to be this way. The old trails were ruined bogs and dying on their arse, and something had to be done. I rode the old trails at their best than saw them slide to their worst. Sure, I'll miss the old stuff, but this is the way of the world.
I've ridden it a fair bit now and I love it. I seriously think that the general development in the area is some of the best 'trail centre' Singletrack I've ever ridden.
Hats off and many thanks to the BTG 🙂
RIP Quarry Trail
Long live the Quarry Trail!
At risk of keeping this thread limping along, like a dying dog with a ruptured bladder full of pure tedium, I'd just like to relate an exchange a mate had in the new Leigh Woods skills area the other day:
Young lad on fancy jump bike: "These new trails are rubbish, the old natural stuff was way better."
Mate: "Why don't you go over to 50 Acre Wood and ride the trails there then?"
Young lad: "I'm not going over there, it's going to be minging!"
I do find the notion of directional trails in woodland rather bizarre, tbh.
There are building regs to consider with professionally built trails. Multi-directional trails have to be almost two metres wide in England, ie like Sustrans routes. Something to do with insurance apparently.
Mr Agreeable, that pretty much sums it up. - When's the next trail repair day?
Given that we know these trails are going to be well used, I certainly can't think of any trails so close to a large city, isn't it better that LW/AC aren't too technical? Ok, some people might be riding more slowly than others but no one's stopping to push through a difficult section, that would be more frustrating.
When's the next trail repair day?
Aiming to get them up and running again for early February, it's a bit too wet to dig up there at the moment (well, we could, but we'd probably muller the existing trail as we moved the stone).
Our website is currently mid-revamp (which I really need to get on with) but you can get news on dig days here:
https://twitter.com/BristolTrails
And I usually post on here, albeit to deafening silence.
mountain biking in the UK becoming a bit vanilla in places shocker
jhw - Member
mountain biking in the UK becoming a bit vanilla in places shocker
People don't like change shocker
Impatient people looking gift horse in mouth shocker.
[url= https://twitter.com/#!/olibeckingsale/status/156783188012834816 ]Oli Beckinsale[/url] likes them. Maybe you should enter some elite XC races OP?
If you've ever been to Whistler, you'll know that a lot of the trails there are a "bit vanilla" too. A range of stuff is good.
I'm all for hard surfaced easy grade tracks. I think what they've achieved in Ashton Court is great. Apart from spoiling the feel of the Hawthorns section by widening the track and trimming away any branches and trees that you might have formerly smacked into it's generally great fun and still has a lot of character.
I was really looking forward to Leigh Woods being a variation of the same but like the OP am pretty disappointed. It's a lot slower than Ashton Court whatever your skill level and never feels like it gets going. Too many tight corners just for the sake of it, very random and uncohesive "features". Too many completely bonkers pinch points... some places you can pop straight out onto heavily used walkers paths no slowing measures applied, others you practically have to come to a standstill unless you want to risk smacking your pedals on half a dozen huge rocks. One's even put in back to front for the direction of the trail for godsakes with the tight slowing bend on the exit form the path crossing rather than the entry.
I never rode it before the resurfacing but if it faithfully follows the line of the Ho Chi Minh trail then I think that the line is far better suited to a boggy rutted slog than a hard surfaced trail with little "flow" as I believe the phrase is and they should have left it alone and designed something for Fifty Acre Wood instead.
The word used a lot on here when Ashton Court opened was "grin". Anyone feeling that after a spin round Leigh Woods? Sorry, not feeling the love. Great idea poorly executed.
I enjoyed it for sure, yeah there's a couple of weird bits but on the whole it's an enjoyable trail and I really don't miss the old trails in LW inc. the stealth stuff. I do think some things could have been done better but there might be reasons it wasn't that I'm unaware of, not like I'm an experienced trail designer/builder. It's perfect for night riding to...
I don't think it was ever going to give the same experience of continuous riding that Ashton Court does, because it crosses so many other paths. Which of course was true of the old Ho Chi Minh too. The trade off is that you have some interesting optional sections, many of which are brand new.
We rode the new trails last night, then headed over to the Ridge trail. By comparison, it's a complete ditched out mess, and will probably stay that way until early summer, unless it freezes.
Anyone feeling that after a spin round Leigh Woods? Sorry, not feeling the love. Great idea poorly executed.
Yep, me. I like that there are sections that provide a challenge at lower speeds.
It's perfect for night riding to...
Yeah, except all the diggers seem to have scared the deer and badgers away. Lots of Owls over Ashton Court 6:30am this morning though.
