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Hi STW,
I have a recurring problem. I'm not particularly fit, but not desperately unfit either. I got back into MTB about 2 years ago. I did quite a bit of cardio in the gym (elliptical and rowing machine if it matters) and feel that cardio wise I'm not in a bad place.
I currently run a 30T chainring (oval if it matters) and 11-46 cassette. There are times when out on a big ride (or sometimes even just a smaller one) that my thigh muscles just don't seem to be there any more.
My training time is limited (kids are 3 and 18 months..) so I'm wondering what I should do for more bang for my buck as it were. Leg presses? More elliptical? Spinning? (Difficult because the cheap gym I have doesn't do video between classes). It really does feel like my thigh muscles just won't contract.
I'm good at keeping up carbohydrate and hydration, so really don't think it's that.. I'm currently thinking some leg presses might be useful, but I'm willing to listen to the collective wisdom
Best training for big rides is getting the miles in on the bike, anything else is a compromise.
How long are your big rides (in time/distance/climb) and how many hours a week do you have to ride?
I realise that - today's ride was 65k/1450m in 5 and a bit hours, but with the family, it's difficult to get such a ride in every week, so often it's a 30k/500m or something similar. But only once a week. I live in town so it's probably an hour or so on top of ride time just to get there and back. I can probably get a couple of 1-2 hours sessions in the gym per week without getting divorced.. 🙂
I did quite a bit of cardio in the gym (elliptical and rowing machine if it matters) and feel that cardio wise I'm not in a bad place.
You probably are not in a particularly good place when it comes to cycling. Many years ago I too, as a regular gym goer thought I was fit, until I started MTBing with real MTBers and I found out the hard way that the only thing that gets you fit for cycling is cycling. Even more so if you road bike.
Leg presses will do nothing for your cycling unless you are a roadie looking for sprint power. You need to get out on the bike. If you are time limited then work out how to get some interval sessions done in one to one and a half hours. If there is a will there is a way. Sorry if this seems harsh but its the truth.
OK just read your last post. Swap those gym sessions for 1-2 hour sessions on the bike plus a ride at the weekend and you will see a significant improvement. These sessions don't have to be off road. in fact they are probably more effective if you do them on road and on the road you can probably do them from your front door and maximise your time efficiency. MTB or road bike it doesn't matter.
Don't worry. I asked here, I knew what to expect 😆 Last year I did about 2000kms, so I've had ups and downs and it's not just gym fitness I'm bringing in to this - I have some yardsticks I can measure my issues against.Sorry if this seems harsh but its the truth.
It really is a leg muscle thing, I'm not (always) gasping for breath at the top of the climb, and mostly once it's flattened out I can get going again straight away. This may be a case of me not listening to the advice that I asked for (surely not ?? 🙂 ) but since I started cycling again only a couple of years ago I have fond ( 😯 ) memories of what it felt like when I was nowhere near cardio wise, and the problem I have isn't the same. It really is the legs and, more specifically, the quads that give up.
That's difficult. Not impossible, and perhaps I could try, but mostly it'd eat into work time. My gym time is on the way to work and my MTB is nowhere near by job nor would I leave it chained up at the station. Well, if I did, I probably only would once 😆Swap those gym sessions for 1-2 hour sessions on the bike
I may be able to cycle into work more easily (showers at work) in the future, so perhaps it will be possible.
Pretty much same advice to give as @uponthedowns.
Ride 3x a week, two short hard ones mid-week and a longer one at the weekend.
If you are 100% certain its a lack of leg power do one of the short hard rides as over-geared (60rpm) hill intervals at your 2min pace. Approach with caution though - risk of knee injury.
If it absolutely has to be in a gym, then do a spin class above anything else.
Thank you - I'll see what I can do with that in terms of timing.
My gym time is on the way to work and my MTB is nowhere near by job
Like I said training doesn't have to be done off road. In fact its probably more effective done on the road from your front door. Like Fifeandy says if you think your weakness is leg power close to max power then you need to get some short intense session done. Find some short climbs near to your home and do reps or replicate the same effort going hard as you can on flat intervals. Alternatively get a turbo or if your gym has a spin bike then use that.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training/off-the-bike
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/nino-schurter-xc-training-red-bull
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/rachel-atherton-shares-her-top-tips
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/rachel-atherton-off-season-training
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWaGEYPTHuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18uD4WpGxr4
I'm not particularly fit so feel free to ignore my 2p. I've got a baby at the moment so I grab cycling when I can - at best once per week for max 2 hours with an occasional longer / hillier cycle.
I've been doing some general weight training to try and tone up / burn some fat in 30 or 40 min sessions where I can fit them in. It has actually benefitted me a lot.
Considering last year I did a lot more cycling and the bike hasn't changed I'm now getting PR's almost everywhere on Strava up and downhill.
Definitely got more leg power - although only in short bursts I'd say - I need more bike time to build cycling stamina.
Leg wise I've been doing squats with a barbell for 3 x sets of 20 reps as heavy as I can manage for that sort of reps. Then been doing walking lunges up and down the garden with a 12kg kettle bell in each hand. Other leg exercises have been split leg squats with a leg behind on a bench for balance, calf raises and then bridges for a bit more glute (bum) power and core strength (I have a couple of bulged discs from an injury years ago that I need to keep supported).
Have you also checked your position? Shouldn't just be all your quads doing the work as many other muscle groups involved. Might be worth looking into.
I did 2 months of spin classes and that had a huge effect on my leg strength. Maybe try that rather than the other cardio you're doing in the gym.
It's got nothing to do with leg strength. If you can walk up the stairs, you have enough strength, the problem is doing it lots of times a minute over a long period.
The only way to improve this is to ride.
If you want to get bike fit on limited time, get a turbo trainer, sign up to trainer road, and do one of their training programs.
Another idea if you're time pressed is singlespeed. Or change that front 30 to a 34 or 36. I found that pushing a hard gear regularly is what improved my leg strength. You'll be surprised what you can get up when you've got no escape gear.
Singlespeed +1
Had great success rebuilding the legs after an accident by dropping the seat and riding everywhere standing up for a couple of months.
Even medium rides hurt like hell at first but they get strong fast!
Thanks to all - lots to think about. I'll try and get some kind of routine where I can get out on the bike more often. The place I live is god awful for cycling around, but I guess I'll just have to suck it up.
Interesting points about bike fit; I'd thought of this too, not as a silver bullet but because it did seem strangely focused on only a particular muscle.
🙂 I've just gone down from a 32 to a 30 🙂 I'm a bit sceptical that just making it harder for myself will somehow change something significantly without me changing something else (number of rides, routes, intensity etc)Or change that front 30 to a 34 or 36. I found that pushing a hard gear regularly is what improved my leg strength. You'll be surprised what you can get up when you've got no escape gear.
Would Zwift be an option?
In a word, no. Getting time at home, undisturbed is complicated. I'm not complaining, wouldn't swap it for the world, but the little guy will (or maybe both of them 🙂 ), sooner or later, and despite any form of curiosity stifling discipline, wonder what would happen if he touched the spinning wheel or something. 🙂 There's not really room either (appartment). But I can see the attraction.Would Zwift be an option?
Going to start doing a some daily reps of lunges and maybe squats and then spend a bit of time looking into the posture aspect on the bike.
I found deadlifts to have a pretty positive effect.
I've been doing 5x5 programme in the gym over the last year or so. Not for cycling performance reasons but as I'm in my 50s I'm trying to maintain muscle mass. I have to say its done nothing for my cycling other than maybe to slightly improve my sprint power by about 100W. If I raced this would be a useful gain but as I don't is entirely useless to me. However for the rest of my life the weight training has given me the results I was looking for in that I'm gaining muscle and liking what I see in the mirror.
https://cyclingtips.com/2014/02/gym-work-for-cyclists-an-interview-with-adrie-van-dieman/
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/fitness/how-to-build-your-body-like-a-professional-road-cyclist
http://www.coachmag.co.uk/exercises/sport-workouts/128/greg-minaar-mtb-workout
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mtb-strong-5-exercises-to-create-strength-2017.html
http://enduro-mtb.com/en/ride-fit-top-6-exercises-for-effective-leg-strength-training/
Could you get a cheap road bike?
Then you can ride straight from your front door.. Much easier to grab an hour when you can.
Also look at some glute strengthening exercises.. Strong glutes are key to cycling leg strength..
To improve power; plyometrics. Once a week will be fine, you'll need a few days to recover.
To improve stamina, miles. Lots and lots of miles....
I'm gaining muscle and liking what I see in the mirror.
That sounds like a cry for help.
We have a winner. I tested this theory by buying another bike* and the difference made me realise how much difference even subtle tweaks could make. I've since been making fine adjustments on both bikes (saddle height, saddle position fore/aft), and more particular tracking the changes (actually writing stuff down) and noting the perceived effect; the difference is quite substantial. I haven't suddenly got magic legs, but the work on specific muscle groups is seeming much less like the issue. There's all the other training advice on here I need to work through on the overallHave you also checked your position? Shouldn't just be all your quads doing the work as many other muscle groups involved. Might be worth looking into.
[i]*This isn't really the reason I bought another bike.[/i]