[Closed] LBS Ramblings,

Im a decent mechanic, precisely because of the sort of thing you describe. I've experienced woeful service and work over the years and have done my own for years now.

[quote=xyeti ]I'm finding it increasingly difficult to locate a decent bike mechanic. The guys that left aren't dead. Find out where they went?

The guys that left aren't dead.

Or are they? Makes you think.

The guys that left aren't dead

It would be cheaper to put them under a patio than pay out redundancy I guess 😉

Your right, I located the guy yesterday afternoon, so all is not lost,

I just need to get comms with him.

So you were treated well by staff who had a happy work environment.
You were then treated badly by staff who had a poor work environment.

What do you think the deciding factor might have been?

What happened to the bloke who ordered the bikes and fluffed that up,
Oh he's still here,

Could that be the owner?

Nail head from piedifromaggio.
To be fair I have been experimenting the other side of the LBS for the past three and half years and the level of incompetance is sometimes very scary.

Stato, unfortunately there wasn't a sign on the door stating "Beware" disgruntled staff within.

I didn't know what expect but based on my previous experiences I was happy to saunter in, drop off the bike pick it up and leave a few gestures of good will, receive helpful advice and pass pleasantrys.

I can see for myself what might have caused this problem but overall it's not very helpful is it.

I don't know whether or not the owner had caused the problem, that was my first thought but why would he let go staff who are keen, knowledgable and competent and retain staff who are capable of handing over lunch breaks seamlessly and turn away customers?

Slightly off topic, there's a new little cafe/shop near work that opened - they were looking for a mechanic for ages, couldn't recruit one, the other shop near home has, or is just about to lose there's - he off to his old industry for the money - another one I go has a permanent card in the window looking for one. So it seems they're in demand, but if you dig about and see what they're offering for wages it's near as dammit minimum wage. Something is amiss with the supply and demand of Bike Mechanics.

Is it just the fact that shops can't convince customers to pay enough to be able to pay offer decent wages?

[quote=P-Jay ]shops can't convince customers to pay enough to be able to pay offer decent wagesBasically, that.

Bike shops seem to charge at least £60 per hour labour but pay mechanics less than a tenner? Can it really cost them the equivalent of £50 per hour for workshop space/rent?

well one of the problem is that more an more LBS are focusing on the trade of whole bikes. To be able to compet you need to work in the correct column and therefore make rather hefty forecast.
So there is little money left for clothes accessories and obviously staff. Had in the mix tons of new standard and most of the times very bad sales rep who can't do their job for shit and here goes the result.

Best regards

Is it just the fact that shops can't convince customers to pay enough to be able to pay offer decent wages?

I think it may be. There are 2 broad types of customers - those that can't see how you could spend more than £100 on a bike, and fittingly can't understand how they cost anything to fix, and those that have been riding a while.
The former are a lost cause (speaking from experience working in a small LBS), even if they put the bike in to fix they'll only ever have moans about the cost (when this was quoted to them when they dropped it off) and how good it doesn't make their bike in the end.
The majority of the latter will be able to do a lot of their own work. In my case I was into bikes from a young age, and having a lot of free time but not much money meant doing my own work, along with buying tools (which I'd use several times) for about the same cost as paying for the job to be completed and learning how to look after my bikes myself. I now do my own work as it generally doesn't take as long as taking the bike in to a shop, and I trust my own work more than I would an unknown mechanic (there are some I would trust, but they work as part of a team at the shop so I wouldn't know they were doing the work.).
The only thing I have taken to a shop recently was a frame to check the alignment.

P-Jay, admittedly there are some folk who don't want to pay for anything, moan about leaving a tip in a restaurant, moan about the cost of servicing a car moan about everything, I'm not one of them, of course it's easy for me say that but I'm sure if there was a mechanic locally to me that charged an above average rate for an above average service then I know that people would pay.

Continued custom would be the crux, because like most things if you do too good a job you slow down repeat business.

Bike shops seem to charge at least £60 per hour labour but pay mechanics less than a tenner? Can it really cost them the equivalent of £50 per hour for workshop space/rent?

Well my LBS doesn't charge anything like that, but it's quite possible a busy workshop could be subsidising a shop that's not selling many new bikes.

speaking to a friend recently who manages a large bike shop in London that is part of a rapidly growing chain of stores backed by a larger chain of stores

they cannot find mechanics in London and its really affecting their expansion plans, then he mentioned they offer £10 per hour....

I had my wheels built at LMNH and the lad in there was from Yorkshire, not sure how much he was paid but he seemed quite content. Enthusiastic about working in that shop and enjoying what he was doing.

He managed to up sell me from H Plus Son to Pacentis and then dared to show me the HED Belgium+, good salesman, well done, Oh have I forgot to mention Guiness cake 😯

I have three LBS's (four if you include the one a little bit further away who I don't much like but were the only ones who had the bike I wanted last year).

One is Evans. They are always very nice and helpful when I go in, but useless if you want to - say - browse bars to see which ones look and feel best. LIke all shops the stock is pitiful.

Second is a proper budget little bike shop with VERY miserable staff. But they seem to be good mechanics, very cheap for horrid jobs (seized BB for example), are the closest to my home and can be OK for lubricant, chains etc.

Third is a proper local shop that sells proper road and MTBs. But despite that they are not really any better than the other two in any meaningful way.

Evans I use from time to time but I prefer to support small independents.

I am happy to use the basic little shop for what it is good at.

It is the 'good independent' that I struggle with. I try to use them where I can, but lack of stock, lack of Sunday opening, expensive repairs, slow time-frames because they're busy and the odd comment really put me off. Last time I went in I bought some lubricant for 50% more than it would have cost online only to be told that the reason that they didn't have my usual brand was "because we get such a good deal on this brand". They followed that up with a sly dig at people who exploit their knowledge then buy online when I asked about the best tyres for mud and then thanked them and said I'd be buying in the autumn (having got through the winter with some tyres not great for mud I might as well weight until Sept / Oct to buy some mud-specific ones).

I don't know what I'm saying really, apart from the fact that I understand that people like me (shop around, build our own bikes) are not their dream customers... but we do need to use bike shops from time to time, we like that they're there and we try to support them where we can... but it is damn hard.

I just need to get comms with him.

There's your problem. You don't speak English.

There are 2 LBS's near me. One is a large-ish chain and is set on selling lots of high-end kit and bikes. The mechanics there are all kids on minimum wage with limited capability.

The other is a small independent in a side street. Has a few bikes for sale, plus a handful of second hand ones, and stocks only very basic stuff. Basically gets by on fixing punctures. However, the owner is a keen cyclist and knows pretty much all there is to know about bikes having spent a lifetime fettling them. He's also a very good wheelbuilder. And has trade accounts which allow him access to decent and exotic kit, which He'll order on request.

As far as I can see, this set-up is the only way you'll get consistently good servicing in the bike trade. And thats where my money goes.

Blatant plug - Perfect Balance Cycles in Totton, Hants 😀

Nico
What language is it then?

Assuming this thread will attract a few bike mechanics - have you seen the [i]Professional Bicycle Mechanics Association[/i] page on Facebook?

[Aside] - one of my favourite things about captialism is bow business owners love to talk about how great free market economics is, yet when they find themselves unable to find staff their response tends to be "there's a shortage of bike mechanics" not "if I am unable to secure the services of a good reliable mechanic for £10 per hour then clearly I need to keep upping the price I am offering until someone is prepared to supply their labour to me".

In my field there is a constant talk of a shortage of valuers. No there isn't, there are loads of valuers, just not many willing to do certain types of work which are high risk and low reward. Offer more cash and guess what, you'll find good staff. Or train people, always a thought?

I have a couple of LBS.

One, I simply don't trust any more.

The other one is a Giant branded store, but they have always done good work and am happy to use them.

There is a desperate shortage of bike mechanics in London - the trade cannot pay enough to attract or retain them.

Who wants to try and live in London on £16k a year and spend 40% of your income on rent?

This has the longer term effect of shrinking the labour pool; even the apprentice route could be considered a dead end with earnings of £3.32 per hour until "qualified" and then the opportunity to earn minimum wage.

The quality lbs have ramped up their pay but this has just cherrypicked the best mechanic's and left the other lbs and chain retailers to fight over the remaining mechanic's.

When Evans closed LCW at bermondsey, the mechanics were all quickly hired by competitors.

If you watch bikebiz, there are constant adverts for mechanics with many chain stores and lbs failing to fill the posts.

It is very interesting to see tha things are a bit different in the UK but not so much.
Bike industry ususally pay shit, I know that because I will stop working for the subdivisary of the bigest Wheel manufacturer in a couple of weeks.
Part of it is indeed money. Same job in any other field (sales admin) will pay 10-15% more.
Same goes for the lads downstairs in the workshop. Need specific trainning for high end wheels and Suspension, but are on minimum wage.
I have a very decent network of local and not so local bike shop but they have all gone throught very difficult time (due to online business) at the moment they are doing ok thanks to the e-bike trend very big here but I can clearly see a ned to it in a couple of years.
A good bike shop will have a 7-15 day waiting list for workshop space.
A very bad one will have trouble keeping its client. And after 4 year takling to lots of LBS I have saddly to admit that there is not a lot of very good ones.

Out of work mechanic here, started in 1999, made redundant back end of last year. I don't drive and there's nothing going within cycling distance. Looking on Bikebiz there are generally positions available in the south east, but moving down there for 16-17k a year is just not viable. I'm Cytech 3 qualified, have 16 years experience and have a good reputation/feel I am good at my job, is decent pay too much to ask for? I want to stick with it, I genuinely love bikes, but it looks like the dream has finally died. 😥

jabbi - Member
Out of work mechanic here, started in 1999, made redundant back end of last year...

Head up to rural Scotland. It's cheaper to live and the riding is fantastic and unlimited.

jabbi - Member
Out of work mechanic here, started in 1999, made redundant back end of last year...

Work from your shed ,get people to pay 50% up front for parts .

 

Jabbi, where abouts are you located?

Do you have your own home and have you access to an outside garage? Just thinking is it possible to set up something from home where people come in and drop bikes off, not much different to dropping off at a shop except they have insurance if the inevitable theft occurs.

I don't know maybe drop off in the morning pick up evening so your not left with a bike overnight?

There's plenty of people I know buy on line and then can't fit it as they don't know how and haven't got the relevant know how, just trying to think that's all as I'm sure you want to put your skills to good use and I'd certainly like to see more enthused people working with bikes,

£10 to £20/hour inc a bit of parts mark up (cables, pads etc), no overheads, starts to look alright eh.

Free website & Google ads, you're away.

for 16-17k a year is just not viable

Same here really, used to be a mechanic, living in north Yorks, no way can you live or even want the lifestyle a bike mechanic pay gets you

For those running shops I have great sympathy a would dearly love to see more however I do wonder if those complaining ( can't say I blame you ) realise that the reason that people won't pay decent money for repairs is that they just don't think its worth it. Bikes are piss easy to fix. Anyone with a bit of brain can and so many do. There goes much of the market. Computers are harder to fix thus more market.
Common sense really.
Bikes still are regarded as cheap by a sizeable proportion of riders and why spend say 50 on having it fixed when you buy a new ne for twice that? Sad but true.
Actually it amazes me that so many LBS still exist in this day and age.

@mattsccm

its a fair point, the wider population often see bikes as a cheap spend at £150, but think nothing of spending £650 on a flatscreen TV

whilst "bikes are piss easy to fix"; being able to put through a high amount of work during the working day, whilst maintaining a high quality of work, and having the breadth of knowledge/experience to deal with anything that comes into the workshop is what separates a professional bike mechanic and a home wrench.

Like watching a professional chef in the kitchen, if you watch an experienced time served bike mechanic at work, there is a fluidity to their action and tool handling you won't see from a home wrench.

Many of the customers I have dealt with have neither the time, the technical knowledge, or the toolset/ workspace to repair or service their bike. They'd rather hand it over to someone who knows what they are doing and can do the work professionally.

As one customer put it to me recently, when you've spent a huge chunk on a race bike, spent 100's of hours training and then spent a small fortune attending overseas events, paying £150 for a service and some new parts is money well spent. Having a bike break down during a race is not good.

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In the quality bike shops I've worked in, I've never had customers complain about the pricing (its always discussed prior to starting work), people seem happy to pay good money for good quality work.

Sadly, this does not reflect the typical LBS

Thanks for the suggestions. Things to think about!
I have been getting by doing the odd repair/service/wheel build for friends/family and old customers who have tracked me down. My problem is space, in that I don't have any! Premises are expensive and obviously mean overheads and the added stress meeting those costs brings. I also have zero capital to start with, making things even more difficult.
I'm really not sure what to do really? I could sack it all off and go and work in Lidl, but then I'd feel like I'm wasting the skills I have built up.

Mattsccm, I understand what you are saying, I've recently bought some ENVE forks 70% discount from CRC, phoned a bike shop......

"Hello, Iv'e got a bike, I've just bought some forks, I'm a bit concerned that I'll fudge up the measuring and most importantly cut it wrong, they are carbon, oh you don't / can't cut cut carbon? Oh ok then give me the number of the bike shop that can"

To discover that he hasn't got the right guide, wrong saw blade, can't breath in carbon dust Oooooohhh ENVE I'm not sure I want to get that wrong they're expensive!

So I did it myself, to be honest after looking on ENVE's own web site on the how to cut a steerer down, I took one look at him and thought if he's capable then I'm definitely over qualified for this job, the bloke looked like he'd never handled a saw in his life.

Literally a piece of cake, same goes for Bottom Bracket woes, a new one and park spanner, sorted myself.

I know what you are saying re cheap bikes, but at the other end there's plenty who haven't a clue, myself included. In still not convinced WTF goes on when fitting a rear mech and how TF you set the stops and make it do what it does, I thought it was that you got taught if you joined the masons or danced round a dead chicken every second Wednesday on a leap year when the moon was in its final phase, and for that I'd gladly pay £20 an hour, trust me that's cheaper than buying a 2nd rear mech. Don't ask me how I know this but it also took out 6 spokes and the hanger.

I haven't got the time and I've certainly not got the patience to be faffing about with something which goes clickety clack half way up a climb and skips about like a jumping bean.

There's no just me, most of the people I speak to pretend they don't have the time but in all honesty they don't know what they are doing either.

It boils down to this for me, Cycling is my Escape I don't drink and I don't smoke, when I go out on my bike I seek peace and solitude, I don't want to be angered because my gears don't work or my head set is loose or my bottom bracket is creaking,
If you're sat at home reading this wondering what to do, go visit your local club, go ride with them and tell them you are keen to service their bikes, not for minimum wage but for a realistic price, give them a guarantee if it works loose or the cables stretch just bring it back and I will fix it for free. Tell them if they want to buy their own bits cheap you will fit them, that way you don't even have to warranty the bits you fit.

Good luck,

Where abouts are you ?

The wilds of East Northamptonshire.

Are there any cycling cafes nearby?

Go drop off some cards or put an add in their window, speak to the owners occupiers, it might be that they are thinking of joining up the dots and they may well be looking for a mechanic or know some one who is.

What trails have you got near by and what's the road scene like?

Something like this guy (who lives near me) is doing may work for you? [url= http://cyclepro-uk.com/ ]http://cyclepro-uk.com/[/url]

as someone who does a little spannering for mates for beer there are some serious concerns for the home mechanic setup.

income - declarations/tax etc
insurance - a) against theft of someone elses property while in my possession and b) against legal action when i slip up
planning permission - change of use, residential dwelling for business use

there is no mark-up on parts, nobody would pay it when they can place that same order online, but they will want you to order it, which puts you in the "seller" position for anything "warranty/returns" short of drawing up a contract

advice is free, mistakes are costly and that risk sits with the mechanic, and, in any customer service environment "the customer is always [s]right[/s] likely to complain and return to bite you in the ass"

so add that little lot together and come up with a suitable hourly rate?

EDIT - from the link above "•Gear Tune Up £20.00", so whats that £60/hr

I wish I could find a mobile bike mechanic near me. I've got a box of bits from CRC and I'd happily pay £20/hour or more for somebody to turn up at my house and save me the hassle of fitting everything myself. Given how portable bike tools are I'm surprised you don't see more bike mechanics working out of vans. It has to be the future once all the LBS have closed.

Steve do you live near Northants?

No, Switzerland unfortunately.

Whatever people say about service attitude cake and coffee
It all boils down to price.
The industry is overcharging for the products.
The online retailers have circumvented the traditional retail model.
And that is the end of the lbs.
Just a matter of time.
Closed mine after 15 years and it's amazing being a customer again.
You just can't beat the online guys.
I am not sure what the future of cycle retail will be.
But I hazard a guess it will be like the car trade. Where you buy on lease and are then tied to the brand as their products will become less compatible with other companies.

@sancho

That is where I find Giant interesting?

Brand stores offer finance directly through Giant UK, bike shipped to store. Comprehensive click and collect on all giant goods. Servicing packages being offered with sale to tie customer to the store. In store bike fitting systems. Consignment stock I.e. 150 bikes on display, owned by Giant UK with no risk to retailer. All other stock pulled next day from warehouse. Imagine the financial muscle needed to put that many bikes into 20+ brand stores with no upfront cost to retailer?

A Taiwanese business man told me whilst talking about China and Taiwan, "we are Chinese with faster calculators". He told me think and plan in the long term, unlike the West.

Long term plans may include taking a short term hit to knock out competitors, for long term gain. Who knows?