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I'm an LBS mechanic myself, pretty new to the game (Under 2 years) and as such I do odd servicing jobs for friends etc, as you do....
There's one thing that gets to me, big time, about bike shops, and that's bullshit and poor service. I don't claim to know everything but the reason I'm doing what I do is because I love it, and because in the first place I was bullshitted to and overcharged. That's THE reason I started doing my own mechanising some 20-odd years ago.
I've been on the customer side for a long time, and as such I have this odd thing - A conscience. I simply cannot sell someone a part or a service they don't need, and I do not bodge. I always ask myself what I would do to my own bike, because I treat my own bikes very well indeed. That's how I proceed, that's how I operate.
Anyway, to the point... One of my mates has a couple of Giants, and a certain LBS supplied and (I believe) at some point serviced them. They've had plenty of money off him. Thousands, certainly.
Last year their mechanic too him he needed a new FIT cartridge in his forks.
[i]His forks are not FIT forks[/i], just normal Floats.
He came back to me last night for a service on his XTC 29er. He'd been having some trouble putting new pads in his Elixirs, it's the normal over-filled Avid issue..... Apparently the mechanic had told him that the brakes needed to be bled (fair enough, maybe) and that because they were feeling a bit soft at the lever that they needed a seal kit fitting.
There's nothing wrong with them. I popped the new pads in and let a bit of fluid out of the calliper. Sorted. OK, maybe charge for a bleed, I get that, I really do, but FFS don't try to scare someone into spending more money. They must be ****ing desperate for trade is all I can imagine.
I've got absolutely no qualms at all naming the store - It's the Giant Store in Guildford.
If anyone knows their mechanic, please tell him that there's a bloke not far away doing him out of business because his customers don't believe his bullshit.
Rant over.
Didn't Avid have an issue with seals swelling at some point? Someone on here posted a pic of an almost solid 'bladder' that had expanded.
Maybe he'd seen it before and wasn't prepared to bleed a set of avids, not cure the problem, have ot replace the seals, tell the customer it was going to cost more, potentialy just be told to 'stuff it I can get deore for £30 an end on CRC they're not worth fixing', and bleed them again? Or just tell the cutomer upfront the worst case.
That and I hate bleeding avids, I'd have told him they'd been contaminated by depleted unobtanium from the ranges and had to be destroyed.
Last year their mechanic too him he needed a new FIT cartridge in his forks.
Less defendable, but maybe an 'MUST' have the FIT cartrige for the performance, rather than 'your old ones buggered', and your friend missunderstood him.
Nahh. No misunderstanding at all.*
That and I hate bleeding avids,
It's a faff, but I can do it blindfold now. That's my job.
*EDIT,
Actually, forgive me, re-reading it, it looks like they told him his fork was knackered and that a FIT upgrade was the best fix at £300. It was a while back....!
Which was BS as I find 'em with a simple service
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/foix-fit-damper-service-as-hard-as-it-looks
Trying to rip people off. No getting away from it.
A lot of shops will do a quick analysis and without really knowing your bike's quirks or even knowing the symptoms as people just say "service it", they will just dive into an assumption, "oh you need XYZ". It's just a quick solution and an easy charge.
Bleeding brakes for just about anything at all is one. Personally I hold the view that the majority of brakes actually don't need bleeding and there is another issue or just a simple case of calibrating pistons.
It's the same with cars though. I don't trust half the things I'm told by garages about "you need XYZ doing". At least with bikes I've got to the point where I understand pretty much everything on my bikes, know when it feels right and not, and over time learnt what actually needs doing to deal with whatever issue I have. I'm a bit OCD about getting it right and will double and triple check the manual for the component and make sure I use the exact amount of oil/fluid/whatever as specified, torqued to the exact spec, etc. I think a lot of shops just do it to whatever they're used to for "a brake", "a fork", etc and forget torque, it's just gorilla handed or finger tight and that will do.
You sound like a wonderful person . If only other bikeshops could get people of your caliber , and a conscience as well , that's virtually unheard of , and don't bodge either I'm in awe .
One of my friends needed a new chainring, he won't do it himself and lives to far away for me to do it.
He took it into his new LBS as he'd moved recently and they told him he needed to replace his cassette and chain, which had been fitted 3 weeks before by his old LBS and that he needed to replace the other two rings as well.
He declined and he's still using the same kit over a year later, safe to say he hasn't been back since!
Yes but surely people are capable of conversing with the mechanic in the shop . That conversation would normally go something along the lines of " if I fit a new chainring it may not work with your other transmission components and we won't know until we test ride it" at which point the customer would normally say " I'm pretty sure it will be OK the chain was only fitted 3 weeks ago " At which point the mechanic will say " OK I'll just put the new chainring on for you and all should be good ".
Its the way of the world if people can make money out of shafting others they will.My advice is to learn more about what you ride.No different in the motorcycle industry or cars.Not always possible I know.Know off some right cons over the years to do with Motorcycles.
Someone had an Honda XR250 years back and they charged them £100 for an oil change and oil filter.Parts at the time £10.Some shops are great.I always go to the small ones which are ACE.
Yes Neil every single person who takes a bike into a shop knows exactly everything about it and how to fix it why else would it be in the shop in the hands of the mechanic?
The same is true of everything else where you ask an expert to do something...you know as much as they do it is just that you cannot be arsed to do it.
I dont always agree with PP on stuff on here but he knows his Bike stuff, has done some handy guides and he talks sense on this issue and shows he is both honest and wise. 2- 0 v you then
Yes but surely people are capable of conversing with the mechanic in the shop
That would be lovely. People vary a lot - I see a full range from people who know as much as me about bike mechanicing to people who need several goes to tell me how many wheels it's got.
I use their sister shop near Woking and by contrast their mechanic is a top bloke, I'll pop in on Saturday and have a word - the manager does both stores so the message will get back
I continually get bollocked by my boss for saving customers money by doing the right thing by them instead of fleecing them blind.
Some people just see labour/repairs as an easy way to claw back margin they have 'lost' by having to discount.
When i was a mechanic, if i was presented a bike with avid brakes and if there was any hint of corrosion around the pistons or sluggishness/stickiness in said pistons accompanied with a request from the customer to "bleed the brakes because they're not right", i'd immediately ring customer and suggest that without a rebuild with new seals, the brakes would never function right, therefore costing more in workshop time faffing trying to get them to work ok rather than just doing a rebuild which would get them spot on first time.
Went through the rigour of unsuccessfully reviving avid brakes without a rebuild too many times to ever bother again.
When we were trained by sram tech we were even told the seals are only expected to last a year or so due to the dot fluid.
Your friends brakes might be really new and in really good condition, what i said above could be rubbish in this instance.
Though, "overfilled" is that really a thing? Unless the brakes have been bled previously without the pistons fully retracted, more fluid can't jump in there during use, it'll be air, therefore needing a bleed.
If you aren't able to service a bike yourself, you deserve ripping off. It's really very simple stuff.
If you aren't able to service a bike yourself, you deserve ripping off. It's really very simple stuff.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Servicing a bike takes one of two things - Time or money. If you have the time, it costs little money. If you have the money, you can buy someone else's time.
I'm taking one of my bikes in to the LBS for a service on Saturday. I also have a fully equipped workshop at home, and can happily fix it all myself. So, why pay for someone else to do it? I'm busy. Oh, and I know I'm not being ripped off. So, stick that in your pipe, etc.
to people who need several goes to tell me how many wheels it's got
LOL
So, why pay for someone else to do it?
Well, given the amount you bang on about your LBS, I can only assume you have a crush on the mechanic 8)
😀 I do like a bit of ginge now and again. 😀
people who need several goes to tell me how many wheels it's got.
Fixing no voters bikes again 😉
Well played Jamie
I do like a bit of ginge now and again.
I always wondered what the 'special grease' was for...
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When we were trained by sram tech we were even told the seals are only expected to last a year or so due to the dot fluid.
My Juicys are 6 years old, never bled and are fine.
Though, "overfilled" is that really a thing? Unless the brakes have been bled previously without the pistons fully retracted, more fluid can't jump in there during use, it'll be air, therefore needing a bleed.
Same Juicys were a little over filled, I had to let a little out when I first replaced the pads.
Glad you're not my mechanic!
Glad you're not mine!
Overfilled 😀
You kids make me chuckle.
Servicing a bike takes one of two things - Time or money. If you have the time, it costs little money. If you have the money, you can buy someone else's time.
Three things, cos you need knowledge as well. I have no time, no money and no knowledge either. I do know PP though 🙂
And I have been in my LBS to get brakes (Avid) adjusted and been informed that the pads (£17) needed changing so we did them, when I know full well they didn't need changing. These days I have Shimano and it's all so simple. Make that 4 things CFH - easily fettled components!
Three things, cos you need knowledge as well
I had that filed under "Time" as in if you have the time to learn, you can. But otherwise, yes!
Grease, Jamie? Luxury.
deanfbm - MemberThough, "overfilled" is that really a thing? Unless the brakes have been bled previously without the pistons fully retracted, more fluid can't jump in there during use, it'll be air, therefore needing a bleed.
DOT fluid absorbs water from the air.
Grease, Jamie? Luxury..
Poor mechanic does not even get Lube
DOT fluid absorbs water from the air.
[img]
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Poor mechanic does not even get Lube
Another victim to friction.
DAMN YOU PHYSICS!
*shakes fist at the sky*
From a rough knowledge of where you live I guessed the shop immediately. They do have a problem.
The thing is that you don't need to BS customers to get extra sales. Good knowledge backed up with honesty will get customers coming back again and again. Making things more expensive for no reason is just wrong.
I think it's unfair to expect everyone to fix their own bikes - cars are easier to fix and they require less specialist tools for the common service jobs but not many people fix their own cars.
Cars are not easier to fix than bikes. That's crazy.
They are heavy, far more complicated, filthy, rusty and it's a pain in the ass to reach anything.
It's a shame, but not surprising that this sort of thing happens. I used to own an expensive (well it cost me a small fortune anyway) sports car and I lost track of the number of times the main stealer tried to rip me off at service time;
1) you need new brake pads, they're getting low (no they weren't)
2) Your disks are corroded, they need replacing (they were still fine at MOT time 12 months later)
3) You need new rear tyres and we can't get the same ones anymore, so we'd better replace all 4 even though the front ones are only 25% worn (suitable tyres found within one phone call to a local tyre co.)
4) Oh and my particular favourite... your tracking is out, so we are going to need to use our expensive laser 4 wheel alignment thingamajig
.............Kerching..
I only survived the experience with my wallet (semi) intact, because I got myself educated, so that I could sniff out the bullshite. I'd hate to think how many folks with more money than sense got absolutely shafted by this sort of thing over the years.
Good service is all about not leaving a nasty taste in somebody's mouth. (ooer) If they are happy, they'll come back again and again and will consider buying a particular brand as they know they'll get good service with it. It's amazing how many folk think that making a fast buck at the expense of customer satisfaction is acceptable business practice though.
Cars are not easier to fix than bikes. That's crazy.
They are heavy, far more complicated, filthy, rusty and it's a pain in the ass to reach anything.
But they don't really have compatability problems, most of them is quite low quality engineering so you can hit it with hammers or bodge it where it's unseen, and modern cars aren't really "fixed", they just have parts swapped out.
I've fixed cars quite a bit - I pefer fixing bikes, but they're different to work on, not harder or easier.
Met one of the blokes from sister shop on a ride last night - was asked if it was that "stumpy little **** with the holes in his ears kicking off again"
LOL, guess you guys have previous ??
After a broken Cam belt earlier this year I think I can say with some confidence "bikes are a piece of piss"
"cars are easier to fix and they require less specialist tools for the common service jobs but not many people fix their own cars."
cars are a necessity for most folk and they like to pay for the reliability of having it garage serviced and repaired....
i guess by service jobs you mean - changing oil , fluids adn filters and maybe changing the brake pads.......in which case - havnt worked on many modern cars have you ..... some want a computer to wind back the hand brake - even 15 years ago some needed a special tool to wind them back.....
i like my drum brakes - easy as pie 😀
Met one of the blokes from sister shop on a ride last night - was asked if it was that "stumpy little **** with the holes in his ears kicking off again"
LOL, guess you guys have previous ??
I bet that they wouldn't dare say that to my brother (peterpoddy) face to face.
People just don't like their dishonesty being revealed, do they?
People just don't like their dishonesty being revealed, do they?
Didn't your brother already backtrack from the accusations made in the OP, tho?
i.e The forks situation didn't go down exactly as stated.
Also, others have stated that the remedy for the brakes, while maybe OTT/Pricey, is not unheard of.
What biscuits for defamation?
These probably.
[img] 
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I have had an appalling experience from the Giant Guildford store. Had to go to the sister shop in Knaphill, who were very good. I will never use them and encourage all my mates to avoid as well.
i was thinking about this a bit more actually ....
this thread is very unprofessional.
.
.
I agree. You absolutely nailed it.
I imagine quite a few 'LBS's staff have targets or are incentive-driven.
A certain bike chain also prompted me into doing my own mechanics after a couple of comments by them made me question what they were saying- then the penny dropped. I was new to the sport/hobby and I thought 'I'm being had for sales'.
They aren't hubs of the community- ALL are businesses there to make money and survive on sales.
ALL are businesses there to make money and survive on sales.
Well yes, but as with everything, rule one should be applied and that [b] is not [/b] in reference to any other businesses mentioned in this thread.
Possibly dense question, but what is rule one?
never wear a hat on a Tuesday
Rule one?
I always thought it was "Don't be a dick".
Rule 1. don't be a dick 😉
The hat thing may hold true too 😀
Even fairly recently a bikeshop owner mentioned my rear mech was worn out and needed replacing ideally. Even though it was just cosmetically marked.
Rule one?I always thought it was "Don't be a dick".
Ah. I assume, as I am a bit of a dick, that's why I didn't know that.
😆
if its still than 90s XTR then he has a point hora 😉
was asked if it was that "stumpy little **** with the holes in his ears kicking off again"
I see the customer service training went well
Can't agree about hats. The world would be a far better place if more people wore proper hats. Every day of the week.
FWIW, they quoted me >£250 for work that Nirvana did for £60. Happy to give any LBS one shot, but......
The world would be a far better place if more people wore proper hats. Every day of the week.
+ 1 I like wearing hats as well.
Problem is folk think you are an eccentric character if you wear one these days
[img] 
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The only hat you should ever need.
I like my hat, but small children think I'm Indiana Jones.
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4122/4922461421_c999a27f1d_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4122/4922461421_c999a27f1d_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/8uYUhv ]ROF Bishopton 322[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/10954782@N00/ ]Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr
was that "stumpy little **** with the holes in his ears kicking off again"
LOL, guess you guys have previous ??
Yeah that's me.
But not that I know of, to be 100% truthful.
Hora, yes, I have targets to meet and I'm bang on track to hit the top one. I do it with honesty and integrity, I know ripping people off won't get them coming back to me. That matters to me more than a quick buck. I'm now just starting to see the fruits of what I've put into my job, returning customers, the odd recommendedation. That sort of thing. If I want to stay where I am and continue hitting my targets, that's whats gotta happen, right? There's not a never ending supply of new customers. 🙂
They aren't hubs of the community- ALL are businesses there to make money and survive on sales.
While the latter part of this is undeniably true, it doesn't follow that you can't achieve those aims while being ethical and not trying to rip your customers off.
And the first part can also be true - I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive.
In fact not ripping people off makes better business sense long-term as this thread shows.
I like my hat, but small children think I'm Indiana Jones.
The perspective seems a little off in that pic, Ben.
[img] 
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Pfft you usually photoshop them....is disapoint
As for this 'Avid thing', well, the bikes still sitting in my garage right now, waiting for a BB to arrive from CRC. There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with the brakes. And I've worked on enough Avids in my time to know when they're buggered! The absolute limit of what they needed was a bleed.
Pretty unprofessional post to be honest - 'aren't I great, aren't my competitors duff'. Poor show.
At least it's just my post that's unprofessional. Not my work. I can live with that. 🙂
good job its not some kind of professional outfit then.
some stores would have you out of a job for this kind of behaviour 😉
Every time we get a halfords bashing thread on this forum I always think, well OK, lots of them are incompetent but I've never actually had a halfords try to steal from me, which has been the case with almost half of the LBSs I've ever used. I'd rather have incompetent than dishonest if I've got to choose.
But it's like car garages, there's loads of great ones out there, you find them and then never let them go. But sadly the dishonest ones can get away with it and will make enough from stealing from the unwary that they won't mind losing your business.
Junkyard - lazarus
Yes Neil every single person who takes a bike into a shop knows exactly everything about it and how to fix it why else would it be in the shop in the hands of the mechanic?
The same is true of everything else where you ask an expert to do something...you know as much as they do it is just that you cannot be arsed to do it.
I dont always agree with PP on stuff on here but he knows his Bike stuff, has done some handy guides and he talks sense on this issue and shows he is both honest and wise. 2- 0 v you then
POSTED 16 HOURS AGO #
You can actually get basic information from people if you ask and the owner of a bike doesn't need to be Einstein just to know if it has had certain jobs done to it .
Pfft you usually photoshop them....is disapoint
I just sat and watched that carefully for 30 seconds.
Anyhow, it's a wide angle lens.
You can actually get basic information from people if you ask and the owner of a bike doesn't need to be Einstein just to know if it has had certain jobs done to it .
Depends. I had one person bring a recumbent tricycle back to be because he'd spotted one broken M5 bolt on the wishbone. That's all he noticed, that's all he thought needed fixing.
What only came out later was that he'd crashed into a lamppost at speed, the impact had forced the kingpin back and hence the wishbone, it had bent the wishbone, popped the anti-roll bar out of it's fittings, and put a big crack and crease in the head tube on that side. It needed a new frame and some other parts, total repair cost around £1000.
Neil your full quote
Yes but surely people are capable of conversing with the mechanic in the shop . That conversation would normally go something along the lines of " if I fit a new chainring it may not work with your other transmission components and we won't know until we test ride it" at which point the customer would normally say " I'm pretty sure it will be OK the chain was only fitted 3 weeks ago " At which point the mechanic will say " OK I'll just put the new chainring on for you and all should be good ".
I still disagree and I dont get what that reply means in relation to your initial post.
As ben notes and most would agree we tend to take things for repairs where we lack the skill to do it ourselves. IME most customers dont know
PeterPoddy - MemberAt least it's just my post that's unprofessional. Not my work....
might want to mention to your boss that it's a bit unprofessional posting offers in big splash that are already expired
[i]Get your bike ready for the harsher autumn weather and SAVE 20% off a Level 1, 2 or 3 service*.
*Servicing Offer valid until 31st October 2014[/i]
If you still work at MB that is 😉
Neil your full quoteYes but surely people are capable of conversing with the mechanic in the shop . That conversation would normally go something along the lines of " if I fit a new chainring it may not work with your other transmission components and we won't know until we test ride it" at which point the customer would normally say " I'm pretty sure it will be OK the chain was only fitted 3 weeks ago " At which point the mechanic will say " OK I'll just put the new chainring on for you and all should be good ".
I still disagree and I dont get what that reply means in relation to your initial post.
As ben notes and most would agree we tend to take things for repairs where we lack the skill to do it ourselves. IME most customers dont know
Must just be my natural charm that gets basic information from customers then 😀
If I went to the dentist with toothache I wouldn't be able to cure it myself but by me telling him the problem and him looking for and then fixing the problem I would hopefully be cured . Thats roughly how the process usually works in a bikeshop . I know there are customers who will walk into the shop and lie , worst are the parents of kids who have broken something and told their parents they were just pottering along on the flat when their wheel exploded or something similar . We once had a lad came into the shop and complained that while just riding along on his BMX his forks had failed and his parents were pretty hostile . Anyway later that day some of his mates came into the shop and told us to look at the YouTube video of him crashing into a wall at high speed .