[Closed] LBS couldn't fit crown race..

I wouldn't be paying them for a shoddy job like that.

I was told it would seat itself after a few rides so might need adjusting.

Hmm. If they just pushed it on by hand, maybe, but then why not fit it fully? If they hammered it on and that's as far as it went, it won't go any further with riding, but they really should have taken a crown race cutter to it first.

I take a cutter to all forks before fitting anyway.

What?
So your bearings are going to hammer up and down till its in place????
Don't think so.

Did the crown race come with the headset? 😉

I'd be very sceptical that it'll seat itself down. Especially if they couldnt set it right with the correct tool.
Some crown race fork combinations are a nightmare. If the race is realy tight I just cut it, never had a problem doing this.

I don't think it was installed by hand. Is there a specialist tool which should have been used? The fork is a couple years old so might have become misshaped slightly.

Assuming it was hammered on and wouldn't go any further, is there anything to worry about re it not being fully seated? Was a FSA headset btw.

Just to add, I did catch him hammering the headset with a wooden brush handle and hammer to get the headset "seated" before using the press. Apparently it would go on due to too much paint on head tube.

Not sure how much I can trust this LBS..?

If the race is realy tight I just cut it, never had a problem doing this.

The proper way is to cut the crown race seat on the fork - cutting the race alters its diameter which could cause problems*.

It amazes me how many bike shops don't have frame prep tools, though.

*I realise this is a controversial opinion on here, so in advance I'd like to say that you're all wrong 😉

Apparently it would go on due to too much paint on head tube.

Which is why you use a head tube facing and reaming tool first too.

Sounds like an amateur to me.

Assuming it was hammered on and wouldn't go any further, is there anything to worry about re it not being fully seated?

Yes, without it fully seated onto a flat crown seat, you've got no guarantee that it's straight.

Should I be concerned about this?

Yes! the jobs not done and their "advice" sounds shite...

Name and shame.

hmm, thanks. Thats what I expected BC.

Yes the crown came with the headset. I would have thought that cutting the crown would have compromised the seating with headset?

I've got a file and "eased" the internal diameter of a race before now and didn't die AFAIK - only Bruce Willis can know for sure though

did they consider that the crown race might 'settle' down the steerer unevenly so you end up with the fork going into the frame at an odd angle and putting unusual side loads on the bearings, headtube etc?

I'd be getting it sorted properly. Either by them or someone who could do it right.

I inspected the crown and it did look like its completely level. Will take another look when home tonight.

Is it worth trying to get the thing seated myself? If so, how would I go about doing that?

Only problem I've had with having the crown race seat cut is that a crown race from a different headset might be to loose. But it is the correct way to do it though.
Loads of lbs don't have the tools or the staff with the training to use them.

I'd be having a very good look at the headtube to make sure it hasn't been damaged too.

I did catch him hammering the headset with a wooden brush handle and hammer to get the headset "seated" before using the press.

Hmmm...Amateur.. I use a frying pan.

Is it worth trying to get the thing seated myself? If so, how would I go about doing that?

Piece of plastic drain pipe over the steerer and wallop down on it - plastic so you don't damage the race.

But I'll doubt you can move it - the diameter of the steerer is probably a fraction larger than optimal, and they didn't have a cutter to sort it. Or it's hung up on a burr of aluminium.

I'd be getting it sorted properly. [s]Either [/s]by [s]them or[/s] someone who could do it right.

defo name and shame

it was that tight a gentle wet and dry to polish up would prob have done the trick

if your in croydon area i could take a look for you?

Amateurs. Tell them to naff off, don't pay them since they haven't done the job you asked.

It should fit, no bodges. The whole point about paying a professional is to avoid bodges.

Fairly close to Croydon (30min drive). Thanks for the offer, I will get back to you once I have taken a proper look at it tonight.

Ben, assuming it cant be moved it and that its completely level, can you see any reasons to not ride it?

Ben, assuming it cant be moved it and that its completely level, can you see any reasons to not ride it?

Just don't. If nothing else the geomotry will be wrong. If it does seat, the headset will go loose.

Dont ride it until its fixed properly.

Ben, assuming it cant be moved it and that its completely level, can you see any reasons to not ride it?

Not really - worst case your headset will loosen up. Just check for stiff points when you rotate the forks, to make sure the bearings aren't being squeezed.

It's a bodge job, but not a dangerous bodge job...

Remove crown race. Pop crown race in cup of boiling water. Refit crown race.(Quickly) (If it's still too tight, as has been advised forks will need attention)

Meh - just ride the thing - the crown race will settle in pretty quickly. As above - it's not the best job, but it's reasonably adequate.

Ok, great. Thanks for the advice chaps. Will see what a ride round Swinley will do to it!

I entirely disagree with any suggestion that this is O.k. A headset or crown race fitted just a tiny, invisible bit of perfectly straight will kill the bearings in short order, get it properly fixed.

Have done this myself when the hoover pipe wasn't quite enough - settled within a fews days and a tighten of the headset, no probs.

A self-seating crown race, eh? Any shop that can't fit one and suggests this is okay, doesn't deserve your custom. How difficult is it to hit a piece of soft tube with a big mallet? Even I can do it. 🙄

Just spoke with LBS, they said they used a crown race slider tool which apparently was on the max limit. I'm assuming my fork was damaged from use on my old frame.

Again they advised to ride it in for a few weeks and tighten when necessary.

Will get some pictures up tonight.

[i]they said they used a crown race slider tool which apparently was on the max limit[/i]

do you have a very long steerer on your fork?

It really does sound like they did half a job and gave up.

Yes, the steerer is very long as its come from an XL frame with a long headtube.

The guy seems honest and willing to help which leads to believe it was a difficult job. Am i being too kind?

montarius - Member

Yes, the steerer is very long as its come from an XL frame with a long headtube.

The guy seems honest and willing to help which leads to believe it was a difficult job. Am i being too kind?

I'm finding this thread hard to follow although I'm a complete amateur so what do I know, but how the hell does a LBS not have a facing tool for levelling off the headtube to take the new headset, come to that, how can they not seat the crown race? regardless of the length of the steering tube?

I'm surprised they didn't just hammer the steering tube onto the headtube with a few nails.

BTW - yes, you are being too kind

yes. its an easy job with the correct tools. he might be honest. he might be jesus christ himself but it doesn't sound like he has done it correctly. like ben says it isn't dangerous, but it lacks a bit in the competency stakes.

sounds like they used something like this which wasn't long enough to fully seat the race as it hit the top of the steerer first;

[img] [/img]

Good call on the long steerer. I've never come across this but then there is long and there is looooooong and by design the tool will only fit steerers up to a certain length. The LBS' lack of 'thinking outside the box' is strong though. They do have the adapter that fits on the race to stop it getting damaged which is really all you 'need'. BITD before I had all the tools, I'd just set an adjustable spanner so the jaws fitted on top of the flat parts of the race, with the handle at 90 degrees to the steerer, and then just whack the spanner with a hammer! Using a plastic pipe was way too pro 😉

i use a park one that is very similar to that and never ever have i found a steerer that is too long. even new uncut steerers.*

edit *which i appreciate could just mean ive not encountered a longer one, not that they dont exist. 😀

toppers3933 - Member

i use a park one that is very similar to that and never ever have i found a steerer that is too long. even new uncut steerers.

indeed.

Only ones I've found the Park one too short for are things like Moultons, 8Freights, stuff like that. For them, I bodge.

cutting the race alters its diameter which could cause problems*.

Ok, well I will take a detailed look tonight, see how truth the LBS was speaking.

Might give a bodge a go with adjustable spanner and hammer if my ride over weekend doesn't settle things.

[i]it compresses the "crown-race" back together[/i]

but because cutting it actually removes a slice of metal the width of the saw blade it could have a slightly smaller diameter when compressed now than it had before?

I would assume the width lost would be made back from the extra width in the steerer. (Assuming it didn't fit as the steerer was slightly wider at the base for some reason).

possibly, or you could end up with a gap larger than the width of metal removed and thus a larger diameter than required?

or you could end up with a gap larger than the width of metal removed and thus a larger diameter than required

If I get this right:

they haven't used a head tube reamer
they haven't used a crown race seat cutter

and what you've paid* for is an amateur** job.

* or maybe you haven't paid yet
** I should know, I am an amateur.

[i]In which case the lower bearing race will push it back together. [/i]

but not if the crown on the fork is slightly oversized and this is what was stopping the thing fitting properly in the first place?

mrmonkfinger - I have paid. It was £15 for the headset and crown to be "fitted". That included a spare spacer so I thought that was reasonable (until I started this thread..)

Being an amateur mechanic, I didn't know what half of these tools were until I opened this thread!

The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug but advised I should try a few rides to bed it in naturally. If that doesnt work, they will take another look at it.

They sound a bit pants for an LBS. mine charged £5 for the same and did a proper job even facing both the head tube top and bottom and the crown.

I now do it myself with a hammer and block of wood, and use Hope split crown races.

This is why I never take my bike to a LBS for any work. Why pay someone to bodge it when you can bodge it yourself?

The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug

A file should not go anywhere near any part of the thing. It needs a proper crown seat cutter used on the fork, then the crown race will fit properly.

Its a bit annoying really as I built the whole bike myself apart from the headset which I thought I would leave to the "professionals" as I didn't have a headset press or facing tool.

This is actually the first time I have used a LBS for any of my bikes..

The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug

ok, thanks for the heads up. Will take it to a different LBS if it doesn't seat itself.

using a hammer and a drift, working on one side then the opposite and carefully tapping it down

that's how I do it. you need to be careful with some crown races that have a seal in them (Cane Creek for example) as you can squish them, but even that's possible with care.

Instead of boiling water use a decent heat gun or blow lamp - 20s is all it takes and the race will drop straight down 😉

you'll need a special tool to pick up the hot race though.
Park do one, part number PCRHT-19.

Hmmm what pipe tube width would I need if I wanted to try the hot water bodge?

bencooper - Member

A file should not go anywhere near any part of the thing. It needs a proper crown seat cutter used on the fork, then the crown race will fit properly.

Unless it's the headset "race" which is out of spec- which seems perfectly likely, since it's a used fork that's had a headset on it before, no?

then checking it with a crown cutter would take nothing off it. in which case yes, the problem would likely be the crown race itself. in which case this needs replacing, not filing.

montarius - Member

ok, thanks for the heads up. Will take it to a different LBS if it doesn't seat itself.

hopefully the crown race isn't damaged (and more importantly the headset) so think of it not as losing £15 but that its cost you £15 to find out how bad this LBS is

Assuming a lot of force has been used to get the crown race into its current place, what would be the easiest way of removing it? (so that I can heat it).

montarius - Member

Assuming a lot of force has been used to get the crown race into its current place, what would be the easiest way of removing it? (so that I can heat it).

Or take it to another LBS and ask them to do it for you? You could spend another £15 to find out if they are rubbish too 😀

This sounds fishy. Reaming and facing a headtube is simple if you have the right tool. Preparing a fork crown is simple if you have the right tool. Fitting a crown race to a fork crown is simple if you have the right tool and the race and fork are the right diameter. Many of those tools aren't cheap but a half-decent LBS should have them.

Is it a 1.5" crown? A 1.125" (1 1/8") crown race may fit down a tapered steerer just far enough to reassemble a headset, but it will never "seat itself" properly! Or perhaps the LBS doesn't have more modern sized tools yet...

If you're half an hour north-east of Croydon, give me a shout. I'm in SE15 and I'll sort it out for you free of charge, providing everything's the right size. Email in profile.

Btw, thing to get the old crown race off:
[img] [/img]
...big heavy tool to do a very simple job, properly.

😉

Can't even post in right thread ... Doh!

I wouldn't be blaming the LBS yet, if you read my [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/problem-with-x-fusion-forks ]THREAD HERE[/url] you will see I had a not to dissimilar problem, the forks got sent back, were looked at & sent back to my LBS with a crownrace fitted & a note telling them how to fit a headset 😯
So I took my headset to the LBS & it clearly didn't fit (it has been on many a fork, but never a Fusion fork), but strangely some others do. To my mind some manufactures build in some "tolerance" into their product to make up for the shortcomings of theirs & others products. As I said in my thread the steerer was quite a bit bigger then it should of been, my solution was to buy a new headset, something to my mind I shouldn't of had to do!

PS, this is the first time I have heard of a crown cutting tool.

Cheers.

Just had a closer inspection of the work done. Looks very messy but as you can see its no quite flush.

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Err - isn't that just the upraised lip of the race you're seeing. Looks to me like the centre portion is resting on the crown.

Mind you, it also looks like someone has been filing away at the steerer....

I wouldnt be riding them forks looking at the steerer just above the crown race !!

Yes, he had to file the steerer slightly to get it straight.

Im clueless as to if that's seated properly or not as this is new territory to me so you tell me. Is the lip meant to be that raised?

[quote=montarius ]Yes, he had to file the steerer slightly to get it straight.
Im clueless as to if that's seated properly or not as this is new territory to me so you tell me. Is the lip meant to be that raised?
Looks fine to me (from those photos). However there is a big groove above the race that seems to go right round the steerer. Was that caused by a previous race/headset?

😐

I think those marks are from the old crown race which were fairly large and a nightmare to remove (apparently). Im not sure I would call them un-rideable..

That groove must have taken a fair percentage of the steerer away and I'd think weakened it a bit....

Pretty sure that 'groove' is actually just the transition from 1-1/8 to whatever diameter it is that the race fits on. Just more noticeable as the guy has cleaned off the surface at that area.

As others say, its fitted flush, just the lip looks higher, wont move from there.

For a new crown race, looks like its had the living crap beaten out of it.The lip isn't straight for starters. I'd be asking for a new race from them but would be going elsewhere to fit it. If you are near Newbury I have a crown race tool to fit it.