You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So took a ti frame, 44mm headtube, that will be fitted with truss forks to a LBS.
I explained I wanted the headcups pressed in and presented two hope headsets, new in the bags over, explained that it was two top headset to fit as it was a truss fork and needed a race down at top and bottom to work, sent the email from the owner/manufacturer explaining the setup, so need all the pieces back relating to the headset.
Got the call to collect and I was working so asked SO to collect, explained that I needed all the pieces back. She explained and was told everything was fitted.
Got home to find that the cups and bearings fitted but no race crowns X2 or spacers or top cover X 2, so asked what happened and SO explained what bike shop said, everything fitted.
Called in bike shop, spoke to the mechanic, who said everything was fitted and all parts returned. Explained again what was I was missing and how I needed the parts to fit the forks.
He opened his spares draw and produced a hope top cover, spacers and race crown, I asked if they were mine from the headset I brought in and he said yes. I asked when he was going to give them to me and he saidhe thought i did not need them. I explained my feelings and said I was missing the other pieces from them the other headset and he then proceeded to pass these over. I collected my parts spitting feathers and so on.
So should I feel aggrieve, upset and generally infuriated by this ' theft'? It seems trivial but,
The parts were mine and could have gone in my spares if I did not need them,on the rare occasions I use a Bike shop I get the parts back old and bits.
The attitude and refusal to hand over the parts seemed bizarre for something relatively minor.
Just the hassle for two people to try and get the parts adds to the aggreived feelings
I won't use a LBS again, simples will buye a proper headset press rather than my well used homemade press.
Is it any wonder bike shops are closing?
How about just using a different lbs next time, or give them a second chance? I've several shops near me that ive found helpful and friendly, not all stores are the same
A bit weird taking your own parts to a shop.
Think of it as punishment for not doing it yourself. Negative man points incarnate.
It's poor but you could have made things a lot easier by just handing over the 2 cups with the frame rather than 2 whole headsets.
not all stores are the same
Exactly, I wouldn't use that one again though. They kept YOUR parts. His spares box must be full of peoples stuff!
A bit weird taking your own parts to a shop.Think of it as punishment for not doing it yourself. Negative man points incarnate.
Rubbish, that's what bike mechanics are for.
All the gear
Anything left over from jobs usually gets zip tied to the frame / bar at my lbs.
After the pompous shop prick tried belittling me in front of his roadie mates who’d just came in, I made a decision never to darken the doors of my local shop, in Lichfield. Utter, utter prat.
Op, do likewise.
Everything always goes back to customer.
Rubbish, that's what bike mechanics are for.
Even thinking that causes a drop in testosterone levels.
This is the second chance took 6 weeks to resolve a bled and leak on hope brakes, in fairness they fitted a spare brake to the bike after 2 weeks.
My other option is a 28 mile round trip to a bike shop or if at work 70 mile round trip. Not all of us live near or in a metropolis.
They asked for all the parts so they had as much information on fitting correctly, as I did just hand them the headcups.
They were quite prepared to steal things off you even when you’d done everything to make their job as easy as possible. Even when you confronted them the bloke lied to your face multiple times until you got your bits back.
I don’t know why anyone would give them the benefit of the doubt. I’d name and shame them without a seconds thought, there is no excuse for that.
There’s so much bollocks about supporting your LBS. yes there are some that are a cut above, but many are just filled with grumpy ****ers with zero people skills and a bizarre expectation that they can treat you poorly and demand your loyalty because its a bloody velominaty rule or something like that, or because the internet is bad.
Too many times I’ve had shoddy treatment, including damaged frames met with a shrug by an lbs owner because they don’t GAF about customer service and quality.
A decent mechanic will give you old parts back to prove the job is done. This goes double for fork and shock servicing
Basically that is stealing. Plain and simple.
I've personally not use an lbs in years. If I need anything done, I just buy the tool and do it myself. Works out expensive to start with (like a proper headset press or wheel building stand), but eventually they pay for themselves. Working on a bike definately isn't hard.
Press fit bb definately reduce the payback time for the headset press.
The re-branded CycleWorld (now Giant, but still part of same chain) store on Thornhill Park Road fitted my carbon fat fork along with a new Hope headset last year, the old headset was put in a plastic bag attached to the old alloy fork.
I guess the question in the OP's case is, is keeping bits to add to their spares box the shop's standard practice, or something the mechanic was underhandedly doing themselves?
My other option is a 28 mile round trip to a bike shop or if at work 70 mile round trip. Not all of us live near or in a metropolis.
Meh, I live in the South East, but still have about a 25 mile round trip to the LBS.
Jonnyboi +100000
If it was any other shop you’d never darken their doors again - I’m surprised there are so few bike shops going out of business with the way a lot of them treat people.
That's not on considering how clear you made it. I have had a similar experience years ago but not all shops are the same. For example, Sett Valley in New Mills and Bicycle Smithy in Hazel Grove could not have done any more to help me in the past and if I needed work doing wouldn't hesitate to take it to either of them.
My advice for next time would be to take the fork in and get it fitted. That way you'll have all the parts required. In my experience, if you buy the parts from the shop they'll fit them for free. Probably work out the same as buying parts cheaper elsewhere and paying lbs to fit. Not saying you did this but if people were thinking this.
out of order. Personally I'd write to the shop explaining ( assuming the mechanic is not the owner) the issue and asking their opinion and only name and shame if the answer is unsatisfactory
The basic issue is folk are not prepared to pay enough for LBS mechanics services IMO
The basic issue is folk are not prepared to pay enough for LBS mechanics services IMO
How is that the case here? And in any similar cases? People who can’t do stuff on their own are happy to take bikes to shops to get things fitted but they too often treat you like crap, damage stuff and in this case try to steal from you. This is why a lot of people do the work themselves as they have learnt by experience that the shops can’t be trusted sometimes.
It was out of order. But I try and keep things simple for people so I don't get disappointed so often. So very much this
It's poor but you could have made things a lot easier by just handing over the 2 cups with the frame rather than 2 whole headsets.
It's poor but you could have made things a lot easier by just handing over the 2 cups with the frame rather than 2 whole headsets.
He offered to do that
Keeping stuff that belongs to a customer should be disciplinary at the very least. Sounds like a combination of a dodgy mechanic and the communication in the shop being poor.
After the pompous shop prick tried belittling me in front of his roadie mates who’d just came in, I made a decision never to darken the doors of my local shop, in Lichfield. Utter, utter prat.
I was going to take a guess at which one this is but to be honest all the shops are the same. We're desperate for a good shop around here.
It's poor but you could have made things a lot easier by just handing over the 2 cups with the frame rather than 2 whole headsets.
^^This^^
While "accidentally holding on to" bits isn't acceptable, it would have made sense to just hand over the parts you needed fitting to avoid any potential confusion...
I knew a shop owner who regards any components that are replaced on a customers bike as the property of the bike shop.
I bought set of crank arms from a customer (outside of work), we had replaced his xtr 960s with a set of xt's as it was cheaper than replacing the rings-if we could actually find some in stock.And the shop owner was adamant that I should have payed him for them not the customer 😯
After being accused of theft once for throwing away someones completely broken and unsalvageable component ,I always made a point of bagging every part that was replaced (cables and tyres too),bagging them and offering back to the customer.
Surely there shouldn't be any confusion. He handed over some parts to be fitted. Surely it's reasonable to assume he would get anything unused back. It wasn't as though the parts they kept were worthless junk.
Now if I went to a lbs to have say a bb/headset fitted and they supplied it, It might be more acceptable to keep unused bits such as small spacers.
not handing the parts back is theft no matter if they were useless or not.
I have on occasion forgotten to return bits when customer first collects there bike and have had to get them
To come
Back in or post there bits to them.
But never on purpose that’s just not on
No excuse at all for the shop mechanic , if he’s not the owner then please tell the owner as he may be getting ripped off as well
Par for the course for a LBS IME.
No wonder so many are dying. Natural selection.
I took my frame to a lbs yesterday as I wanted two headset cups pressed in. Already had the headset bits from Superstar. I always feel a bit bad going into a lbs just to get such a simple (but requires a specialist tool) job, so I make it as quick and as easy as possible. Two cups ziptied to the frame which was stripped bare.
Job done in 10 mins, cost £5 and even chucked in a new gear cable outer for me as I wanted to buy one. Winner
Customers always get everything back including old parts with the exception of cables where it's pretty clear the old rusty cable is now bright and shiny.
Mostly people look quite surprised and ask if we can dispose of them, which works well as we mainly deal in second hand bikes.
What the OP's bike shop did is theft IMO. If one of my guys did that there would be repercussions as it's too easy to loose a good reputation by this sort of thing.
Rubbish, that's what bike mechanics are for.
Even thinking that causes a drop in testosterone levels.
Could you explain why?
Just to be clear
They asked for all the parts so they had as much information on fitting correctly, as I did just hand them the headcups
I am fed up with LBS generally, from the casual sexism when my daughter's take things in, to the pistols poor service female friends get, to the belittling divots as mentioned above to the cost they charge, female friend quote £40 per hour on a job my daughter did from them free and explained how to mend the bike.
newrobdob - Member
The basic issue is folk are not prepared to pay enough for LBS mechanics services IMOHow is that the case here? And in any similar cases? People who can’t do stuff on their own are happy to take bikes to shops to get things fitted but they too often treat you like crap, damage stuff and in this case try to steal from you. This is why a lot of people do the work themselves as they have learnt by experience that the shops can’t be trusted sometimes.
If we were prepared to pay proper professional wages we would get better service. Pay peanuts get monkeys
How much is the labour charge to repair a car? £50+ an hour at a main dealer with a minimum of an hour and a bit less at a back street repair shop. How much is the labour charge for a bike shop?
People on here whinge about repairs prices all the time when they are usually under £20 an hour
Fortunately in Edinburgh we have a lot of bike shops so competition forces standards up
£40 per hour on a job
That’s pretty much standard price, to boys or girls
I need to change employment...
Poor wages are part of the problem with finding good staff.
A shop mechanic would be lucky to get a 1/4 of the £40 and hour mentioned above.
£40 an hour? what LBS charges that?
I don't think they are at all comparable. The costs to run a car garage, the tools and equipment required and training for the mechanics is far greater than that for a simple bike shop.How much is the labour charge to repair a car? £50+ an hour at a main dealer with a minimum of an hour and a bit less at a back street repair shop. How much is the labour charge for a bike shop?
It's like comparing your barbershop to your doctors surgery.
£40 an hour? what LBS charges that?
Most of them?
I don't think they are at all comparable. The costs to run a car garage, the tools and equipment required and training for the mechanics is far greater than that for a simple bike shop
Yes, but not 3 or 4 X the costs?
Many main dealers will be far more than £50 an hour. Thats what I paid for my BMW motorbike 10 years ago
Years ago I bought a Hope rear wheel from a bike shop who have a price match scheme. I pointed out that their price was well above another local competitors.
OK, I could have gone to the other place, but it bought the bike from this place so thought I'd give them the opportunity to have a bit more custom, they said they couldn't match the other places price but could do it for £10 extra.
I agreed with them to fit the wheel for me and I would pay that price as, at that time, I had no tools like cassette remover etc.
It was only when I bought a Hope Wheel for the front that I realised they had kept the extra stuff that comes with it, spare spokes, maxle convertor thingy. I didn't need them, but it annoyed me as that should have been my stuff.
They were quite prepared to steal things off you even when you’d done everything to make their job as easy as possible. Even when you confronted them the bloke lied to your face multiple times until you got your bits back.
Agreed. I'd have probably done it whist you waited, unless I was knee deep in something I do a small job like that on the spot.
pay peanuts get monkeys
Gee, thanks a bunch.....
Thats what I paid for my BMW motorbike 10 years ago
That was cheap, even then. It'd be double that now.
£40 an hour? what LBS charges that?
That's a tad on the low side. £40-60 is about right
It's mostly done on set pricing though. a £75 service should be under 2 hours work for instance.
I don't think they are at all comparable. The costs to run a car garage, the tools and equipment required and training for the mechanics is far greater than that for a simple bike shop
Rent and rates per sq ft is probably quit a bit higher for the average bike shop, though. Fundamentally, no-one in the bike industry is absolutely coining it in with repairs, so the costs can’t be that extortionate.
I always try to give back all the spare bits, as it saves me having to dispose of them. Some people want everything back, others are happy for me to pass them on to the local bike charity.
A bit weird taking your own parts to a shop.
No it isnt. We fit brought in parts all the time, we charge for fitting. We give all surplus new parts back and worn out/replaced parts are offered to the customer with the option of disposal for recycling if possible
If we were prepared to pay proper professional wages we would get better service.
That is not a given, you could just get the same service at a higher cost. It would likely be the same people...
Tired chains, cassettes, rings and tyres go straight in the bin/ scrap box. Pretty much everything else I give the customer the option of taking the stuff with them.
If a customer comes in with their own parts sourced from elsewhere we don't judge we just add a "wiggle tax".
"Par for the course for a LBS IME.
No wonder so many are dying. Natural selection".my thoughts also.
wiggle tax"
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
I collected my parts spitting feathers and so on.
Is there a cafe nearby where you could get a drink maybe ?
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
They charge more for fitting than if the customer had bought the parts from them.
Re cafeActually in the LBS, worst still I am a vegetarian.
Re quizzical face that is what I thought and still am disgruntled by the flexible charging system, currently not a LBS fan at all.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
A charge to fit the bits, I imagine...
Let's just face it guys that most bike shops suck and that the more leeway you give them, they use that to shaft you.
Miserable sods at times who should ride more and remember that money doesn't grow on trees.
Oh and that bikes aren't BLOODY GOLD FFS!
Hate going to bike shops, always have done unless they have actually completed the relatively methodical way of building a bike for me without causing grief.
Always feels like I'm being taken for a fool waiting on phone calls for updates on where the hell my item is that I ordered like two weeks ago.
To the OPer, yes do it get your own tools in and experiment, a patient but methodical step by step approach pays dividends to turning parts into a complete.
Owners that see their business venture as the next best thing since sliced bread do my head in crack heads.
Waves a certain hand gesture to all those shop owners/workers etc that I will never bother ever to pay again for what I can do better in my time off.
🙂
The hourly rate conversation always comes up.
Based on paying a tech £9 per hour, giving him 28 days holiday inc stats, paying 13.8% employer NI and loading a £10k share of the overhead on the workshop, a one tech workshop would need to charge £36 inc VAT per hour to break even (£49,921 divided by 1,380 hours), based on achieving 75% efficiency every week of the year (unlikely).
They probably got into business to make a profit though, and when they do, they'll pay 20% corporation tax on that too.
Without thinking about the numbers behind it, most people will just see the 4x markup on an estimated hourly wage and assume it's profit. It's not.
Edit: If I was an LBS, and somebody walked in with a bike not bought from me and parts to fit, also not from me, then I'd want to clear at least £20 per hour profit, so about £60 per hour total, to make sure I built up enough profit to pay myself a wage for hiring somebody, stocking a shop, taking the risk and putting my house on the line, filling the coffee machine, covering damage and loss and so on.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
Guessing that means they charge a little more for fitting the parts than they would if they were purchased from them.
I had a similar problem with one of my LBSs, had a busted cam in a RH STI, bike shop said I needed to replace both which is fair enough, they charged me for a pair. But they never gave me the 'spare' LH STI they'd taken off. Got fed up of asking in the end.
They must make a fortune from unsuspecting customers.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
Example, If a customer buys a groupset from us we charge it at retail and fit for free or as part of a service at no extra charge. If a customer walks in with a groupset for us to fit then we will charge for a full strip and a rebuild fit it.
we don't judge we just add a "wiggle tax".
Customers know you do this. Some might suck it up, but others will learn to do stuff and blow you out altogether. Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from.
I don't think anyone expects bike shops to fit parts sourced elsewhere for free, but most don't bat an eyelid when asked IME.
They're just happy to be working on nice bikes with nice bits usually.
Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from.
free if you buy it from us, £some if you buy it elsewhere doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from
I agree, however, If we charge full RRP plus a full service to fit a groupset then this really is going to bump the price up to the point where it is prohibitive when compared to the internet guys. A balance has to be made where we can stay competitive and keep the lights on at the same time.
Simple really, you bring in any part of gear system we fit it and charge for a gear service as you'll want the gears to work. Same with brakes. There is no "wiggle" tax. Buy the part from us and we don't charge you for a gear or brake service
Based on paying a tech £9 per hour
I wish...
And I'm the workshop manager.
The general mechanics are on minimum wage. They'd earn more on a checkout at Tesco. Actually, so would I. I'd probably spend less time on the Internet reading that everything I do could be done by anyone with a set of spanners and everyone in my industry should loose their jobs as well.
There are doubtless some rogues in the industry, but don't tar us all with the same brush please.
Sorry, there was wine in the numbers, I'd ran two sets and it should have read 55% on retail jobs, and 45% of your time is taking to customers, building bikes, making coffee, milling around and so on.
Even at £7.05 an hour salary, on the same stats above would come out at £30.41 per hour retail inc VAT, before profit.
My mate of mine was baulking at the £90 per hour he's just been charged on his car, whilst happily thinking the £120 per hour for his tattoos is a bargain. I know who has the bigger costs...
There are doubtless some rogues in the industry, but don't tar us all with the same brush please.
This in spades - we should do another one of those threads where we call out the good ones; Cookson cycles, Keep Pedalling (stevenson sq manchester) popup bikes, Evan's Cycles Deansgate
yep, I feel kinda bad if I bring parts and ask for fitting but then again it's usually because I'm prepared to pay to avoid risk of my hamfisted damagefree if you buy it from us, £some if you buy it elsewhere doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
As I said above - plenty of decent bike shops in Edinburgh all with slightly different niches and competition drives standards up. Poor shops will go to the wall, good ones will flourish
Does anybody on here buy from Eurocarparts with one of their many 30% off deals and walk into the local garage with a boot full of pads, disks and track rod ends for them to fit or is only the "norm" in the bike world.?
When I was working in an Edinburgh bike shop we'd often encourage folks to buy their own parts (as they could get them cheaper than we could) and then we'd simply charge for fitting. That worked for some. For others, they simply wanted to not to have to think about it and were happy to pay our prices, though that usually meant free/discounted fitting.
Does anybody on here buy from Eurocarparts with one of their many 30% off deals and walk into the local garage with a boot full of pads, disks and track rod ends for them to fit or is only the "norm" in the bike world.?
Pretty common with back street garages. But most of the ones I use get their stuff from eurocar parts and only mark up their trade discount.
I've taken my own parts into garages before. Possibly because a) I've tried to fit it and failed (rear springs) b) I've bought the part and decided it's too difficult or I need special kit c) I want a specific brand, bought it elsewhere and taken it to the garage. Never had an issue with that. They charge per hour, why should it be a problem?
Also taken stuff into bike shops to be fitted because I don't have the tools myself. Headset cups fitted, charged me £10 IIRC, no issue with that. Also had brake mounts faced on a frame I didn't buy from them because I don't own a brake mount facing tool. No problem from the shop or from me.
The garage I use for my car always lets me supply the parts. I'll drop the car in the morning, he'll check the part number need and I'll get them delivered same day direct to him. GSF regularily send me 50%+ discount codes which the garage say is about 15% cheaper than they can buy them for.
The only caveat is that if I supply a part and it fails under warranty then I have to pay for removal and replacement, which is fair enough.
Same with at least 3 LBS's that I use. I generally supply the part and they fit it. I'll normally buy anything direct from them if its discovered during a service but other than that i'll supply the parts. Even been know for one mechanic to use his own stock and I'll get the replacement part from CRC sent to him to replace his stock. I pay just the CRC cost on my order. Saves him time as he can do the work there and then whilst its in the stand, and the bike isn't sitting waiting for me to get the parts delivered. If its not in stock at CRC then i'll buy the part from the LBS if they have it.
Its the above that means I go back to them time and time again.
Nowadays there’s a fair chance the lbs won’t have the part you want fitted.
On the point about differential labour pricing I've got no issue with that.
The owner is there to make a living. He can make that from bike sales, parts and accessory sales and servicing.
Each element of that will carry a margin of profit of some sort.
Unlikely that many would have an issue if it had been expressed as you get a 'discounted' rate on fitting the XTR groupset you just bought from the shop as the owner's absorbing some of the workshop overhead through the parts margin.
If you the customer bring the parts in then the owner is risking getting grief on parts they have made no margin on (the classic reboxed OEM product with missing bolts or connectors for example) and the hassle if the user mullers something first ride out. So you charge 'full' price which reflects that potential for having to rummage through the bolts draw and that sometimes a job is a bit slower than expected. I.e. you price where you don't risk an under recovery of workshop time.
As for the OP I'd be cross too. Anyone who works in an LBS workshop ought to/would know the value of those parts and returned them.
Nowadays there’s a fair chance the lbs won’t have the part you want fitted.
But they can order it in from the disti. At a higher price than CRC sell it for. And get charged delivery. And can’t return it.
This is why the industry is ****ed
Tomhoward+1
And of course the insane number of non-standards that now exist. Only a warehouse based business can really hold the necessary diversity of parts to be fully stocked.
My biggest challenge with both my (very good) LBS is that they've adopted an out of town approach.
If I want something from them it's an hour and a half round trip. I'm not going to do that journey just for consumables.