[Closed] Large 4x4 reversing over my bike

I do not have bike insurance or BC membership. Or house insurance.

Hmmm no mercy from me.

I'd claim for a whole new bike from his insurance company.

I wouldn't ring him first nor would I take any 'out-of-court' type of deal. Better safe than sorry/out-of-pocket.

PS: I've had no similar experience - thankfully.

Apart from his apparently nasty attitude, then I think he's right. Bad news for you though, I'd be gutted.

I stopped reading after you deemed his 4x4 unnecessary

I fail to see how it can be "right" to disclaim responsibility for running something over because you could not see it..
Go for it OP.

Overall clearly he will have to sort it out and pay

you cannot hit a stationary object whilst you are moving and then blame the stationary inanimate object for the accident on the gorunds you did not see it!!

they may reduce the pay out as your bike should not have been on the floor - contributory negligence ??? not certain as IANAL

Await reply then decide whether no won no fee is required or you can sort it yourself

I think you'll find it hard to claim for hypothetical damage.

Conflicted tbh. Yes you absolutely shouldn't be reversing over things, you put your car where you know it's safe. But, at the same time, my bike doesn't get left where it's going to get reversed over, personally I would feel partly responsible. People seem to forget they're in a car park at bike places, stuff spread about everywhere, you wouldn't do it at tesco.

"don't leave your f* bike in the road"

I'll be interested to see how your claim goes - good luck. Did you take a photo of the position of the bike ?

@ trail_rat, prejudice removed

Sounds a bit 50:50 to me. Although he maybe should have seen the bike (I can't see what right behind my rear wheel on my car) you def shouldn't have left your bike lying on the ground where it could be run over [quite easily it seems].
That said he should probably contribute something - post a pic so we can see what the damage is.

you cannot hit a stationary object whilst you are moving and then blame the stationary inanimate object for the accident on the gorunds you did not see it!!

post a pic so we can [s]see what the damage is[/s] intake breath through teeth.

So it's OK for someone to put [object x] behind your rear wheel and then claim when you run over it? How do you know he was not in the car before the bike was put there and when he got in the car he had no obstacle behind?

Things/people move, it's still the drivers responsibility to avoid these things. Something I'm acutely aware of when reversing the van around (solid bulkhead with no camera, radar, beeper, etc)

Edit: this doesn't mean you shouldn't try to avoid leaving kit somewhere there's a chance of it being damaged

criminal damage? if you had put a conrete block behind his car temporarily and he had reversed into the ****er do think he would have driven off saying he couldnt see it

Thing is, you'd expect people to be milling around by the back of a vehicle in a place like that. You'd expect bikes (or people) to be in that area, since that's where they get loaded back in (or people are faffing). In that scenario, surely you'd reverse straight back until you could turn into an area you could see? No idea what to do know, but I'd get some quotes in and contact him. If he won't play ball at all you might have to go for small claims court?

As far as the frame is concerned.

I had my bike in the boot of my car and was rear ended, writing the car off.

I took the bike to the LBS to get it checked out and was told there was no way they could guarantee the strength of the frame and was given a statement declaring the bike a total loss which was then included in the claim for the car.

TBH the bike seemed fine apart from having to slightly ease the fork legs apart to get the front wheel in.

In the end I accepted a no questions asked cheque for £500 to cover the cost of some new forks - could have pursued it further but was happy with that and almost 4 years on I'm riding the same bike and havent died due to catastrophic frame failure.

Basically I doubt you'll find any LBS who will tell you (in writing) your frame is o.k.

Given that its not a public highway, youay struggle to obtain details of insurer, do you have independent witnesses? Small claims may be your route

Sharkbait, the way I'm reading it the bike was not behind the 4x4 but behind the van. Completely agree that if you've put something behind another vehicle then it is your fault, and at best there's some shared responsibility.

the way I'm reading it the bike was not behind the 4x4 but behind the van.

edhornby - Member

Given that its not a public highway, youay struggle to obtain details of insurer, do you have independent witnesses?

Aren't public car parks considered to be essentially public roads?

Edhornby publicly accessible space so RTA applies.

Sounds a bit 50:50 to me

Clearly you're out of your mind. If you hit something that's stationary, it's your fault. End.

Given that its not a public highway, youay struggle to obtain details of insurer, do you have independent witnesses?

Nope that's not true.

I'd say his fault. As the driver of a vehicle you are obliged to check that everything is clear and it's safe to proceed. He must have been aware that there was activity around the back of your van and would have certainly felt that he ran over something, so to just drive away makes it even worse IMHO.

Couple of suggestions:

1. Draw a top-down diagram of where everything was, showing the parked 4x4 and the angle he turned at to hit the bike. Your description isn't clear, a simple sketch would clarify what happened.

2. Did the 4x4 driver walk past you before getting into the car and driving off? Clearly if he walked past the bike before driving off he has absolutely no excuse for not seeing it.

3. As others have said, LBS to assess whether the frame can be trusted or written off.

Good luck.

Thanks for your responses.

Unfortunately no photo of where the bike was as somebody moved it just after it happened, but we did all see the position it was in. Neither do I have a photo of the damage at the time - it was absolutely p*ssing it down and in my aggravated state unfortunately I wasn't thinking about photos.

The bike had been there for a good 10-15 mins before it happened.

Until I have initiated a claim and talked to my witnesses I don't want to post any diagrams on the internet. The bike was not directly behind his car and there is no reason why he should not have seen it at least from his mirrors.

For the matter of a claim: he was moving, your bike was inanimate and not moving. So it is *his* fault.
From my point of view, daft thing to do leaving any bike lying in a carpark. Mine are always upright and off the car park it at all possible.
I do have house insurance that covers such things as well, worth thinking about if you have £00's of worth of bikes/outdoor kit/stuff away from home.

To clarify, I wasn't asking to see a diagram I was simply saying that one would be useful in convincing whomever you need to convince that the bike wasn't lying in a unreasonable position relative to the 4x4.

Clearly you're out of your mind.

Could you give us more details about the 4x4. I need to know the make, to more accurately gauge the level of sneering to deploy

You left a bike lying on the ground in a car park for 10-15 mins? It does sound like he should have seen it though never assume that this is the case. It does sound like you have a claim, but little sympathy from me.

Neither do I have a photo of the damage at the time - it was absolutely p*ssing it down and in my aggravated state unfortunately I wasn't thinking about photos.

I'd try and go through his insurance but I think you may have problems, being private land and they fact he will more or less day you put the bike behind his vehicle, you will probably have a real fight on.

By the way I'd have told you were to go if you started being all pretentious and spouting about the "dear kids".

I once reversed into a big rock in Llandegla car park. Luckily I didn't appear to do any damage to it, so their was no need to get my insurance involved, or post a thread about it on here. But if you are the owner of a rock in Llandegla car park, I'm sorry.

Public car park = public highway as defined in theRoad Traffic Act.

As PP says, moving vehicle hits stationary, inanimate object = driver's fault.

OP, contact his insurers direct - if he didn't give the info then you can find it on [url= http://www.ask-mid.com ]Ask MID[/url]

What were you driving at the time Binners?

I think we all realise it was not the best place to leave a bike.
Nonetheless the moving vehicle hit an inanimate object that was always there- its really not hard to work out blame.
As for private land imagine this if your car was stolen from it would you expect your insurance to pay.
Could I drive round Tesco car park pissed out my mind ?
Basically if the public can access it then the laws apply

Do you need to ask? This is Singletrack. A Skoda Octavia vRS estate. Obviously* 🙂

* I'm not even joking

Agree probably the drivers fault, but whats with people leaving their bikes lying around trail centre car parks ???
I was at Cwmcarn and had to reverse tightly out of my spot to get out. Like the op someone had left their bike lying on the ground behind their car. He seemed to think it was a massive bother to move it so I could go home.

A moving vehicle hitting an inanimate object is not the drivers fault if the inanimate object was placed irresponsibly.

I always walk around my van before getting in and driving off.
I did so, got in buckled up, checked mirrors. Reverse, BANG.
Whilst I was buckling up a stupid woman in an tiny electric car pulled behind me right up to my bumper to try to squeeze half the lengh of her car in the parking bay I was occupying.

As her car was tiny and right behind me I could not see it In my mirrors.
She tried the old it could not possibly be her fault as her car was stationary.

But the insurance judgement went in my favour as it was ruled she had parked irresponsibly.

And your small child argument does not wash either, if I was reversing out checking my mirrors and hit your child it would be your fault for not keeping him under your protection.
And if you were aware of your bikes position did you not think to move it the moment your heard the driver fire up his engine, just in case.

so, your dim enough to leave your bike on the ground in a busy car park where other vehicles are passing and it get damaged and that someone elses fault - i think he / his insurnce co will run circles around you.

For what it's worth I didn't use 'the small child' argument with him, and wouldn't use it in a claim because it is peripheral to the situation - I just mentioned it here to help explain my point.

What relevance is the "large 4x4"?

I have a large 4x4, but it's just a car to me. So can we stop trying to get all the tree huggers on your side?

Every time that I leave my bike at the back of my car, I always make sure that nobody can run over it, I have even moved it on occasions when I have heard/seen the car next to mine want to reverse.

As a driver of a "large 4x4" or any other car, you do not normally reverse with the steering turned so sharply that you would hit either of your wings on vehicles parked next to your own car. So I find it hard to believe that the car's owner drove in such an irresponsible manner. I know that now feel angry but surely some of this is your own fault and you know it.

Without photos, accurate measurements, etc, what is your proof? The word of a few mates?

Legally, there are so many ways that any judgement against the car driver can be declined that it is just not worth the trouble. You will be lucky with the £20 offering. Sounds crap, but that's the way it is,but a very good learning point for everybody following this post.

Personally, I would suck it up and put it down to experience and be more careful in the future.

Going back to your small child example.
Whilst packing up you told a small child to sit in the position where you left your bike.
The car next to you reverses out over said child. And you then posted that on a forum claiming it to be the drivers fault.

Do you think you get much sympathy, more Likely people threatening you with a lynching.
You were careless and due to a misfortunate series of events your bike got damaged.

As said, suck it up,move on.

I once left a rock at Llandegla cos I'd been late walking back to my VAG wagon

When I eventually got back I found some idiot had ridden an orange 5 over it

It was ruined

Legally, there are so many ways that any judgement against the car driver can be declined that it is just not worth the trouble.

No there is not I am sure all the witnesses will say bike wa sin x place for x time person got into vehicle reversed over it told the to **** off and drove off. The best they could hope for was contributory negligence as you cannot reverse in to stationary objects just because someone parked it poorly!! You are moving it is not the only way to crash is for the moving thing to hit the stationary thing which was ALWAYS there. Only on STW would you even need to "debate" this.

so, your dim enough to leave your bike on the ground in a busy car park where other vehicles are passing and it get damaged and that someone elses fault - i think he / his insurnce co will run circles around you

Going back to your small child example.
Whilst packing up you told a small child to sit in the position where you left your bike.
The car next to you reverses out over said child. And you then posted that on a forum claiming it to be the drivers fault.

You are a QC I assume

I think in this day n age, when insurance companies will look for any loop hole in order to avoid paying out for a claim, you are going to need all the luck you can get, at most 50 - 50 i would say, i hope im wrong for your sake op,but i would be amazed if they pay up, good luck, you will need it lol.

Junkyard, You seem to have a lot of experience in these issues.

What exactly are your transport legislation / experience in these matters?

When I drop my nipper off at nursery, standard procedure would be park, remove buggy from boot, leave buggy behind car, remove and insert child, walk away. I would be [i]surprised[/i] if someone ran over either my buggy or me and my child and claimed it to be my fault! Where else am I meant to go?

He left his bike where it was not safe and it got run over, get over it.

A friend left his £800 air rifle on the ground at the back of his car in the car park of a HFT shoot.
Another friend ran it over I identical circumstances.
But the owner had the good grace to realise despite being upset if he had not been a **** and left it there it would not have been run over.

It even occurred to him what happened could happen when he placed it there but decided the risk was tiny as it would only be there momentarily.

Stop trying to blame someone else if he had put his bike safely out of harms way instead of leaving it in the way expecting others to avoid it .

How did this car turn quick enough to run a bike over left behind a van - none of my 4x4s will do that.

Or by behind the van do you mean in the vacinity but actuallyin the middle of the road ?

He reverse out of a space, instead of reversing in and driving forwards out as per basic common sense & the Highway Code. Bell end of the highest order, and his being a bell end caused damage to your bike. Simple.

park, remove buggy from boot, leave buggy behind car, ... Where else am I meant to go?

BOLLARDS, thats what you want, lots of them to create a safe and sterile area round your bike.

or a bike forcefield,will warn off errant motorists by sounding a message,and a strobeing light available from www.bikeforcefields.con

TuckerUK - Member
He reverse out of a space, instead of reversing in and driving forwards out as per basic common sense & the Highway Code. Bell end of the highest order, and his being a bell end caused damage to your bike. Simple.

Look at any supermarket car park and look at all the "bell end" car Parker's you complete muppet!

Bloody hell... He was at a trailcentre, you park nose in because you want easy access to the boot. Same reason everyone parks nose in at supermarkets. Get a grip.

Bloody hell... He was at a trailcentre, you park nose in because you want easy access to the boot. Same reason everyone parks nose in at supermarkets. Get a grip.

I drive a van with rear doors and always reverse into spaces, no problem for me getting in the back, the housekeeper usually unloads the trolley into the van.

How big a van? I have a choice, either park nose in and be able to open the boot, or park rear in and not (well, or park rear in and sticking out into traffic, but that's not so good).

actually getting a trolley to the boot can be impossible in a busy carpark too, unless you park nose-in.

Northwind - Member
Bloody hell... He was at a trailcentre, you park nose in because you want easy access to the boot. Same reason everyone parks nose in at supermarkets. Get a grip.

project - Member
Bloody hell... He was at a trailcentre, you park nose in because you want easy access to the boot. Same reason everyone parks nose in at supermarkets. Get a grip.
I drive a van with rear doors and always reverse into spaces, no problem for me getting in the back, the housekeeper usually unloads the trolley

So......are there any signs in place to say that you 'must' reverse park?

I doubt it.

 

In my eyes this is difficult. Putting your pride and joy on the floor in a busy car park and not keeping an eye on it is perhaps a little silly. Take responsibility for your own belongings. If you put it out of the way you wouldn't get it run over. Would you put a baby in a carry chair by the back of a van on the floor and turn your back on it??

Driver should have looked where he was going - but also had a point.

He reverse out of a space, instead of reversing in and driving forwards out as per basic common sense & the Highway Code. Bell end of the highest order, and his being a bell end etc etc etc.

Because I'm not a "bellend" when I park my van at Trail Centres, I always reverse in.

Then I get in the back of the van by climbing over the seats
Get my tools out and take the two bikes to bits.
And pass the bits of the bikes over the front seat to my missus through the window.
We then reassemble them in a safe place where nobody can reverse into us.
When we have done our ride, we do all the above (in reverse)

We can then drive out safely, forwards.

All because I don't want someone in the internet to call me a bellend.

(Sometimes I'm not sure its worth it ?)

No different from reversing into someone else's badly parked car in the supermarket car park. its still the drivers responsibility, and their insurance company are going to have to settle it.

citizens advice, letter before action to their solicitors and small claims if they don't settle

What exactly are your transport legislation / experience in these matters?

park, remove buggy from boot, leave buggy behind car, ... Where else am I meant to go?
Pavement ? Why would you obstruct the road ?

There is no pavement because I'm in the middle of a car park. Similar scenario to the OP really. When I'm reversing in the same car park, I wouldn't be swinging the back end into an area that I couldn't see first.

Did you get any pics of the 4x4 after it reversed into the bike, for insurance company etc? that pic would be very valuable.

No offence OP, but I think you need to wise up. The man was in a 4x4, that means he doesn't have to pay much/any attention whilst driving, and I bet he's got his additional "4x4c*nt" licence, which means he can just shout and swear at you before speeding away.

Ive never seen a reverse-parked car in a trail centre car park, presumably for the boot access reasons given. I'm a police driver and we are taught to reverse park to be able to make rapid safe deployments but it is unrealistic at trail centres as illustrated by the faff described above in passing parts through. I also NEVER leave my bike lying on the ground in a car park either, it gets put somewhere out of harms way (eg propped up between front of my car and fence/wall/hedge).

Like others I can't see how someone can reverse out of a parking space and hit something tight behind your neighbouring car (esp a big 4x4), you must have left the bike much further away from rear of yours, and exposed to danger, than you imply.

The driver sounds a knob and in his position I'd feel responsible and offer to sort something out, but I don't have much sympathy with the OP because leaving a bike lying around and getting it run over is like leaving your car/house unlocked and getting it screwed- your negligence/laziness is a contributing factor in it being able to happen.

Damage is likely to be less than his insurance excess so he may choose to settle with you than risk you making a successful insurance claim which will impact on his NCB etc without any benefit?

davidtaylforth - Member
No offence OP, but I think you need to wise up. The man was in a 4x4, that means he doesn't have to pay much/any attention whilst driving, and I bet he's got his additional "4x4c*nt" licence, which means he can just shout and swear at you before speeding away.

......and that's my point!

The hatred of 4x4 drivers in this mad world. We are all tarred with the same brush, and yet, some of us also ride MTB like the rest of you.

Junkyard, You seem to have a lot of experience in these issues.

What exactly are your transport legislation / experience in these matters?

What does it matter? His posts in this thread are based on obvious common sense and a basic understanding of the application of law In relation to a moving vehicle striking a stationary object.

The hatred of 4x4 drivers in this mad world. We are all tarred with the same brush, and yet, some of us also ride MTB like the rest of you.

Does being a 4X4 driver make you irritable and defensive?

fervouredimage - Member
Junkyard, You seem to have a lot of experience in these issues.
What exactly are your transport legislation / experience in these matters?
What does it matter? His posts in this thread are based on obvious common sense and a basic understanding of the application of law In relation to a moving vehicle striking a stationary object.

.....and common sense is always law?

Reading through this thread makes me realise what a bunch of t0ss-pots most of you lot really are.

Nipper99 - Member

so, your dim enough to leave your bike on the ground in a busy car park where other vehicles are passing and it get damaged and that someone elses fault - i think he / his insurnce co will run circles around you.

Cheers bud.

Case in point

I don't have much sympathy with the OP because leaving a bike lying around and getting it run over is like leaving your car/house unlocked and getting it screwed- your negligence/laziness is a contributing factor in it being able to happen.

So in your professional capacity you'd let off a scrote who stole stuff from an unlocked house or car because it was the owner's fault?

tizzzzle - Member
Nipper99 - Member
so, your dim enough to leave your bike on the ground in a busy car park where other vehicles are passing and it get damaged and that someone elses fault - i think he / his insurnce co will run circles around you.

Cheers bud.

Case in point

What is your case tizzzzle?

aracer - Member
I don't have much sympathy with the OP because leaving a bike lying around and getting it run over is like leaving your car/house unlocked and getting it screwed- your negligence/laziness is a contributing factor in it being able to happen.
So in your professional capacity you'd let off a scrote who stole stuff from an unlocked house or car because it was the owner's fault?

The sad fact is that some judges would actually let 'scrotes' off for this reason 🙄

I read a bit of page 1 got bored and then cut straight to page 3, and its sank right to the level i thought, gawd bless you STW 😆

The hatred of 4x4 drivers in this mad world. We are all tarred with the same brush, and yet, some of us also ride MTB like the rest of you.

It's the classic stereotype, although I guess it exists for a reason!

Living in the lakes, I get to see some terrible 4x4 drivers. Alot of them probably local, and alot of them nodders in chelsea tractors who've just come to the lakes for a weekend away, with their awful kids.

They're still a bit unecessary though!

What is your case tizzzzle?

I guess if you have to ask then your viewpoint is different to mine. Which is fine.

They're still a bit unecessary though!

Is the ownership of any car with an engine capable of propelling the laden vehicle at more than 70mph not just as 'unnecessary' though?