I recently asked the Lake District National Park Authority why Moor Lane in Grizedale had been resurfaced. This is the one that comes out near the parking area near Satterthwaite. It's now a basically flat track. Previously it was a superb rocky, steppy track. Here's the reply that I got. What do you think?
"We repaired Moor Lane last year as it was becoming dangerous to use for horse-riders – and difficult to use in places for walkers. The trouble was that the original surface has gradually washed away leaving exposed bedrock which became slippy, and there were some quite big rock steps as well. This presented us with two issues – firstly, we have a duty to maintain this bridleway to the original standard as best we can, and secondly, the duty on a bridleway is to maintain the route so that it is safe for the recorded users – which are walkers, horse-riders and pedal cyclists.
The other problem was that the surfacing that did exist on the lane was washing out on to the public road after heavy storms, causing a safety issue for drivers as well.
I appreciate that mountain bikers enjoyed the challenge of a difficult route – but I am sure that you will also appreciate that our responsibilities are actually wider than that. In fact, the work we have done has made Moor Lane more usable to a greater variety of cyclists, including family cyclists and those less confident on a mountain bike.
For those mountain bikers who do like more of a challenge, then there are plenty of facilities in the area, such as the Forestry Commission’s North Face and other tracks in Grizedale Forest.
It is not our usual policy to consult user bodies when carrying out essential maintenance, as it is part of our duty rather than something discretionary.
I hope that explains why we have restored the route to its original condition, and I am sure that you will understand why we have done this."
To me that sounds like a perfectly reasonable response
Seems fair enough to me it is sad when that happens but what they say is true with exception of this bit [i]"For those mountain bikers who do like more of a challenge, then there are plenty of facilities in the area, such as the Forestry Commission’s North Face and other tracks in Grizedale Forest."[/i] the North Face track provides no challenge what so ever.
Reads the way I would have expected it to.
Same here in Calderdale, the sanitation of Bridleways usually occurs to make them passable by horse (in both directons up & down) - after all, that's why they are there. Fair enough.
Fortunately several attempts at this have evolved with the years of heavy rain into something of their former glories !
I just hope it doesn't extend to the "other" trails due to erosion from more people seeking a riding challenge.
fair doos...but shame.
Yep, perfectly fair response.
Would be a reasonable response if the NFT wasn't so rubbish. Used to love that descent. 🙁
I can see where they're coming from though I suppose.
There was a discussion on this a number of months ago where I had asked the same thing of the NP. It's a fair response but at the time Simon Barnes pointed out there was a perfectly graded track running virtually parallel to this which could have been used instead by horses and infirm.
The argument could also be turned on it's head - there are plenty of well-surfaced bridleways and tracks in the area that horses and walkers could have used instead.
Only saving grace is that one can rely on nature to do it's thing and return it to something more interesting in time!
Its a shame but we have to remember without horses there would be no bridleways in England and we would only be able to ride trail centres
And without cars there would be no roads so we could ride where we liked because we couldn't be chased.
Its a shame but we have to remember without horses there would be no bridleways in England and we would only be able to ride trail centres
....or alternatively without horses no-one would have bothered with the rather daft classification system we have in England and Wales and we'd be free to ride anywhere we wanted.
heihei - MemberIts a shame but we have to remember without horses there would be no bridleways in England and we would only be able to ride trail centres
....or alternatively without horses no-one would have bothered with the rather daft classification system we have in England and Wales and we'd be free to ride anywhere we wanted.
What I meant was without horses using the bridleways and forcing the national parks to keep them open we could soon find that MTBikes were forced into using trail centres. I dont think we have any legal right to use bridleways iirc we just arent excluded from using them but give the Lake District National Park a chance and we will all be going round in circles in a bloody pine forest
It is their responsibility so fair do's!
It was great fun before but it's not a big deal to have it sanitized IMO. There are plenty of other challenging trails, as the response pointed out, and anyway give it a few months for it to wash out (they always do) and it will be a good challenge again.
We do have to share the trails with others and have to respect that, we just need access to footpaths but thats a whole other debate...
Yeah, I think their response is regrettable but understandable. A lot of what we ride on was probably once much safer and boring when heavier used as a standard right of way before roads made them more a recreational route - Chapel Gate was a road not all that long ago for eg.
We're pretty unique in our requirements for trails to degrade and become more difficult in order for them to be interesting to us I suppose?
So long as they only do this to the odd trail here and there I guess we just choose other spots. If they do it everywhere, let's take pick axes to a few roads in the night - Honister Pass would be ace if we smashed it up a bit for eg.
[i]but I am sure that you will also appreciate that our responsibilities are actually wider than that. In fact, the work we have done has made Moor Lane more usable to a greater variety of cyclists, including family cyclists and those less confident on a mountain bike.[/i]
I think that sums it up pretty well, the more people have reasonable access to our countryside the better and it's not only gnarlmeisters who enjoy the trails.........
I heard that someone at that end of the valley has opened a pony trekking centre and has been pushing for Moor Lane to be smoothed out......so commercial gain rather than altruism could be at the heart of this work?
It hardly seems likely that families will venture down Moor Lane but if they do it's more than possible that horses will be coming towards them more often than in the past. And they will no doubt be going more slowly than most of the mtbikers posting on this site.
The smoothing out will encourage riders to go faster than previously and meeting horses at speed is a recipe for upset.
Could end in tears imo.
There is indeed a horse riding centre... I was wondering if it may be part of the forest as they seem to be riding the footpaths. Saw quite a lot of hoof prints whilst out walking my pooch up there a couple of weeks back on said footpaths.
Wonder if that means they are fair game on mountain bikes too then 😉
To me that sounds like a perfectly reasonable response
except that I'm sure that, as usual, they will have scrimped on the work and it'll be washed away in a year! YAY! Also, why have they been content to leave the exposed rock and boulder fields for the last 10 years but suddenly now they have to fulfill their responsibilities ?
Is this the one that ends in a gate? [url= 
]This gate to be exact[/url]? If so, bugger. One of my favourites, anyone got any info on similar trails in the area? Or is this the next one up?
I suppose this means that any track worth riding is up for resurfacing and we won't know about it until it's done. Like the lane (I don't know it's name) above the visitor centre in Grizedale, just past the North Face track.
I think its still a pretty damn fine piece of track anyway. I'll be going down it as fast as possible on Saturday so will report back.
Not that track Sammy, it looks like the bottom of the Lawson Park descent
Sammy
[url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=333142&y=492298&z=115&sv=333142,492298&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=723&ax=333142&ay=492298&lm=0 ]Its this one.[/url]
Seems fair enough. Three Snowdonia National Park rangers I encountered on Snowdon a while back simply couldn't understand why we wanted to ride Snowdon when "there's purpose built trails like the marin that surely present more of a challenge" nearby (!) When I pointed out that there's a perfectly decent footpath round Llyn Padarn at the foot of the mountain, they failed to see the parallels...
just make sure you drag your brakes a lot, soon be back to it's former glory...
the North Face track provides no challenge what so ever.
seems to be a general theme which leads me to believe either I can't ride for excrement or I'm trying harder!! there are loads of great rocky bits of trail that you really have to work the bike through in is easy to mince through but I always find it a good challenge to nail it for the whole of the singletrack sections. I do remember catching lots of people in it.....
sq225917 - Member
And without cars there would be no roads so we could ride where we liked because we couldn't be chased.
Actually, without bicycles there's be no metalled roads...
Furry Muff IMO
The good thing is there are plenty of other good rocky tracks around Grizedale to go at.
Have a go at the trig point track (comes out about 10 yards past the start of the 2nd single track section of the north face trail, used to have a fence across it) thats a pretty good one but its probably best to do it in the evening rather than the day since I think its actually a footpath.
Does anyone know what the wide, rocky track is called that goes from above the visitor centre (just past the second part of the North Face) to near the top of Lawson Park?
[i]Does anyone know what the wide, rocky track is called that goes from above the visitor centre (just past the second part of the North Face) to near the top of Lawson Park? [/i]
If it's the one I'm thinking of then we refer to it as the 'riverbed' for obvious reasons. Don't know if it has an official name.
It's a great trail as well, just as much fun trying to clear it as a technical climb as it is a descent.
I think the OP has a valid point,I did the Dollywagon decent into Grisedale Valley (from Helvellyn) last week,Its now a long section of rocky steps (stone pitched) from the summit all the way down to the valley.
Judging by the number of helicoptered in dumpy bags in the valley the lower sections will soon be sanitised as well! 😥
My worrys are, most riders will simply ride down the sides of the path as there seems to be no consideration for cyclists on this particular Bridleway,Indeed some walkers were finding it better to walk down the grass rather than the newly repaired path!!,taking into consideration the width of the drainage gullys and size of the rocks used,its not surprising either!
Or is it too steep and difficult for most mountainbikers anyway? and not cosidered a route? by the National Parks.
While i can understand the requirments and policys of reinstating a right of way,all user groups should be considered, especially when there is a risk of further possible erosion. 😥
Don't know if it has an official name.
Scale Green Intake
most riders will simply ride down the sides of the path as there seems to be no consideration for cyclists on this particular Bridleway,Indeed some walkers were finding it better to walk down the grass rather than the newly repaired path!!
Last time we discussed this (when TandemJeremy called me a vandal), someone said they'd asked a National Park about it, and the ranger said "Just ride down the grass" 🙂 Now the massive stoneworks have stabilised the fellside, and given the good drainage, the tough grass can stand up to the traffic.
Hope so si,although i do enjoy the challenge of the technical stuff it just seems daft to encourage people to use the sides of a path!!
If half the width of the path had flatter/shallower pitching, with bridged drainage gullys it would make this unecacery in the first place!.
it'll have been done on the cheap. give it 10 years, she'll be back.
the one that comes out near the parking area
theres the hint, go further afield to find the rocky stuff.
how many million people go to the lakes every year? and how many thousand mountain bikers? theres miles of trails in the lakes, GOI.
go further afield to find the rocky stuff.
it just so happened Moor Lane was particularly good. To date the top half still is, so now we turn R at the 2nd fire road and take the FP towards Rusland instead :o)
"Go further afield to find the rocky stuff." The point of Moor Lane and bridleways around Grizedale for me is that it's rocky and sheltered - Good bad weather riding.
The original point being made is vaild. If no one complains, then the council/NP will think it's ok to keep "upgrading" tracks. Are there any mountain bike groups in the Lakes area who give advice to the council and NP?
Rather than complain it would be better to contact the rights of way team and ask to be notified / consulted on any surfacing / upgrading works to be undertaken before they happen. Individual responces are valid but club / group responses are better - the numbers game again.
There are also a lot of different stages of enlightenment in countryside management and local authorities regarding mountain biking. Lancs does seem to be leading the field with the works in Lee Quarry and plans in and around rossendale. There's even a couple of lines in one of the rights of way strategy docs for the west pennine moors about trying to create or maintain wilder / rougher upland bridleways because some mountain bikers and horse riders prefer rougher terrain.
And the OP - diplomatic silence.
And the OP - diplomatic silence
Unlikely. I think the bloke in charge of the works actually said they don't need to consult with interested parties as their mandate to maintain rights of way is given. My experience in the past has been that even when you make contact, you are soon forgotten due to pressure of work, never mind the inevitable turnover of staff. Besides, I'm already far too busy riding and documenting rides to be bothered with futile 'consultation' :o)
Isnt there another bogtrotter you could dispatch on consultation duties? Nothing wrong with documenting and consultation can sometimes it can seem futile but the more we try the further we get all be it slowly.
Isnt there another bogtrotter you could dispatch on consultation duties?
none seem to have emerged 🙁 I did have a go some years ago but found it excruciatingly boring attending meetings 🙁 Most of the members just want to ride their bikes and drink beer...
So simon - it is better to moan about trail repair as "Sanitization" than it is to engage to do anything about it to try to get it repaired in a way that suits you? You constantly moan about the repairs to trails in the lakes.
You do seem to forget the crucial point - one persons fun rocky trail is another's eroded mess. These trails are for all - from experienced mountainbikers to ramblers to horses to inexperienced mountainbikers.
Your position is untenable.
