[Closed] Knackered Headset

I got the pictures the wrong way round, plus I'm new to the forums and adding pictures.

These are the pics I missed:

Thanks

Langers

Looks like old school heavy ball races type, cartridge bearing headsets use split crowns usually, I'd get a new headset, that one is definitely EC, looks like 49mm 1.5" reducer headset. You can have EC or ZS with that 1 1/8 steerer, it's up to you.

Thanks Endomick.

Do you know if it's possible to get this type of headset with sealed bearings rather than caged?

Thanks

Or...

Would this be a suitable replacement for my split crown race?

https://www.tartybikes.co.uk/headset_spares/crewkerz_15_inch_headset_reducer_crown_race/c57p13130.html

Thanks again

Langers

What the hell - so the workshop used the wrong tool and smashed your crown race to smithereens - then tell you you need to sort it?!

Or you did that before sending it off? Hard to tell from your description!

It was the workshop, I won't name names as they are very well regarded, so I believe!

For what its worth, they used a normal race removal tool but the race cracked. The race is on the steerer pretty damn tight, its the one that came on the bike and has never been removed so its pretty stuck!

They think metal fatigue due to the age of the bike, coupled with it being stuck on there!

Have you still got to try to remove it?

I thought this might help on CRC for the headset (open in new window for full size)
[img] [/img]
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mix-match-bottom-headset-cup/rp-prod124574

But you have to then find the bearings and the top cup in separate listings, which keeps the complication level high. Cane Creek's website also has a headset finder, probably worth a look

new bike time!

I'd love a new bike, but its wishful thinking! Too many other family commitments!

I still have to remove the race myself, or take it to my LBS once the forks are returned to me (should be today).

I'd be happy if I could find a compatible race and replace just that I suppose. Or I was hoping that I'd be able to find a compatible headset that has sealed bearings rather than the caged ones it currently has. Is this possible with my setup?

I did look at the CRC link but I still find it all a bit confusing, I can't seem to get my head round it, as I'm still picking up the lingo.

I also tried the Cane Creek headset finder and they said that I'd need to contact them! So I have emailed them also.

The crown race needs to match up to the bearings it is butting up against, so to speak. It might be possible to get a replacement race for the specific model of headset you've currently got, but I understand the rule of thumb is to not mix and match crown races and headset.

I’m wondering if any of you fine gentleman can suggest what I can do to save buying a whole new headset.

First, figure out who makes your current headset and what model it is; secondly see if anyone sells spares for that model of headset -- you might get lucky, and this is the cheapest option. That tartybike linked race might be OK for your headset, but you'd ideally want to know the manufacturer and model to verify IMO.

If I have to get a new headset can someone suggest what I’d need to buy? As I find the headset jargon a bit confusing.

I fully sympathise 🙂 and went through this learning curve recently.

I found this Park Tool document about SHIS codes very useful. The codes describe the type of headset, and basically give you the information you need when shopping for a new unit:

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/standardized-headset-identification-system

To source a suitable new headset, you need to know:

1. the bore (diameter) of the top of your headtube
2. the bore of the bottom of your headtube
3. the diameter of your fork steerer tube

The Cane Creek finder tool is very helpful once you have the above information -- just plug the figures in and it'll spit out a SHIS code for you. Then go shopping 🙂

I would be surprised if you couldn't get a headset with sealed bearings to work with that steerer tube, but once you have your measurements you can figure it out reasonably easily. Manufacturers like Hope and Superstar do good "mix and match" headsets where you can pick the cups to suit your requirements.

I'm thinking you'll need a proper crownrace remover [url= https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/s?q=x-tools+pro+crown+race+remover+tool&cat=product ]Eg[/url] - screwdriver technique looks like it'll leave bits of the race behind that you'll then never get off. Bike shop workshops have the right tool obviously.

As tomparkin says, the crownrace has to match the bearings or you'll not get them sat flush - any movement is no good.

That Nukeproof diagram - I apologise for posting that. Probably more confusing than anything. They show a reducer for the bottom cup (hardly ever needed), but none for the top cup!
You obviously need a reducer for both, if I read rightly - 1 1/8th straight steerer?
How about -
https://www.evanscycles.com/fsa-the-big-fat-pig-reducer-headset-00120016

Hi DezB

I did see that one one Evans, it has caged bearings though. If thats my only real option then it seems good. Should I really be trying to go for one with sealed bearings? Will I notice the difference? I am a bit gutted really as I could have just left the race in situ and just replaced the caged bearings!

The workshop the forks went to, used a proper Park Tools crown race removal tool, so it wasn't a botch job with a screwdriver. Just unlucky I guess!

Thanks

Langers

How annoying, I should read more carefully. Presumes it was sealed bearings like the Orbit II.
Jeez, how hard is it find one! I'll have another look later!

If you fancy sealed bearings and don't mind spending some cash this should fit.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/fsa-orbit-xtreme-pro-1-5-reducer-headset/rp-prod51071

Christ!

It's a big jump up! 🙁

Thanks for looking though peeps!

https://www.merlincycles.com/chris-king-devolution-nothreadset-headset-1-1-2-to-1-1-8-131267.html
Bargain!

Bish wins, I love a bit of CK 😍😍

Hi langers, sorry for the delayed response, the pic you showed was for a cartridge bearing and won't work with ball races, also a cracked crown race will damage the bearings as they roll over it, your best bet is to remove old fashioned crown race and change headset to cartridge (sealed) bearings type, most are these days, I have an unused superstar red upper one for you, zero stack, can send for a tenner, although you only need a lower cup, the lower needed is ZS49-30-B6 that's zero stack nukeproof from CRC, or EX49-40-B7 with reducer crown, that's external cup but needs reducer for 1 1/8, that option will future proof for tapered forks. A Hope lower will be type D.

Sorry made a slight correction, it's right now.

Bish wins indeed! Headset will outlive the frame 🙂
Annoying cos I looked on Merlin earlier and there was hardly anything on the website.

@endomick - we've covered most of that - he's looking to replace upper and lower headset bearings with sealed.

Excuse me dezb but I'm helping not confusing, I know what I'm talking about,and how does bish win at that price. Langers,
you could even contact your headset manufacturer to see if they've got spares, but you'll be going back to square one, struggling to take it off again in the future, the nukeproof ones are quality, and cheap too £13 or £13 +£2 for reducer.
If you need upper its zs49-28.6 T3 a bit dearer though.
Ps dezb, those NP cups come with bearings, numpty.

Can someone explain, in layman's terms, (as I'm a total noob).

What's the difference between ZS and EC? I was under impression that EC was external cup? Is this the same as when some website shows them as 'EX'? Is ZS still an actual press-fit cup? Just not as deep, taking up less steerer length?

The Chris King does look sweet, but it still stings that I have to pay that for a headset when it wasn't me that cracked the race. That said, I would probably have messed it up even more if I had a go at removing it.

I was looking at these - https://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/uk-made-headset-complete.htm

I can't see an option for EC49. So would I need a ZS49 (type 4) for the top and ZS49/30 (type D) for the bottom? (I think Endomick has coveres this already).

Also, Are these Superstar headsets any good?

I've also found this - https://www.bike24.com/p2263340.html - if this would work and is better than the Superstar one???

Thanks again everyone for all the help...as you can tell I'm new to this side of biking. Also, sorry if I'm crossing over different replies, just trying to take it all in and get it clear in my head.

Thanks

Langers

I assume if I end up with a ZS top and bottom cup, more of my steerer will be exposed and I'll need more spacers or have to cut it down?

tbh, i'd just put it back together and see how you get on before you spend money on a new headset.

If you do and and just use it till it begins to feel rough, there's no harm done, you'll just need to replace the headset anyhow. So it won't break anything.

the bearing surfaces look fine, so it will work mechnically, although, might get a bit dirty after time, but well.. they all do that anyhow.

I wouldn't say the headset is knackered, just not optimal! 😆

Correct Langers, zero stack press in just like external, they are just internal with a 3mm ish lip showing, but the upper has the extra top piece, head angle steepens slightly with a ZS lower, less than half a degree though, ZS upper is the way to go, EC upper would be pointless. You're getting it though 40mm refers to 1.5 steerer, 30mm refers to 1 1/8 lower and 28.6mm 1 1/8 upper. I can send you my older version ZS red upper if you pay postage, saves you a bit, I only used the lower.
Just to verify, the bearings sit inside the cups inside the headtube with zero stack and I can recommend nukeproof.

Endomick,

Is your red ZS upper the Superstar one? If I were to buy yours in red I'd like the bottom to be red too? I know recommend the Nukeproof, but if I got the Superstar bottom ZS49/30 in red, how much of the actual red cup is visible?

What would you be looking for posting?

Cheers again, you've all been really helpful.

Langers

Just when I thought you were getting the hang of it, oh well, there will be about 3mm showing if you get a zero stack bottom.
I've just noticed the achtung sticker, are you in Germany or UK.
I've worked out I can pack it thinner, so £2 if you're in the UK.
Send your address in private message then you can PayPal me when you get it.

@Endomick - I'm in the UK mate.
Do you have any pics of the upper? Did you say its unused, and does it include the bearing and any other bits for the top assembly?

Thanks
Langers