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Hi
So Junior RRR is overdue for an upgrade to a 20” bike. He’s been riding a fully rigid ridgeback Mx16 which is reasonably light. We’ve started to ride some actual trail centre tracks together, some of which that are reasonably rocky.
Are modern 20” bikes’ suspension forks still just heavy and pointless like they used to be? For reference we’re looking at something like an Orbea MX20 .
Thanks
The Hellion 20 is epic, my seven year old daughter loves it, does lots of steep rooty stuff and pretty decent jumps. Great tyres too and simple to set up tubeless! 🙂 The suspension certainly appears to work well and she cannons down rough trails at speeds that feel a bit lively on my adult bike :O
^^ sounds great. I suspect the forks on your daughters bike must be a lot better than those on the £300 - £350 bikes I’m looking at?!
I was sort of wondering whether there’s anyway at all I could get him on a 24” bike but he’s not even 7 yet so I know the answer really...
My eldest is just growing out of his Saracen Mantra 2.0, which I've been very impressed with. It has an adjustable air fork, which has made all the difference as he has the physique of a racing sardine. I suspect a coil fork, like the ones that seem to come with the majority of 20" bikes would have been a weighty hinderance.
The biggest issue seems to be getting hold of anything decent at all , as everything is out of stock at the moment.
I was sort of wondering whether there’s anyway at all I could get him on a 24” bike but he’s not even 7 yet so I know the answer really…
Mine was on a 24" before his 6th birthday... he still had room on the 20" but we wanted disk brakes and forks.
I've been put off cheap suspension forks for small bikes as the extra weight is hideous. My daughter got on great with a Cannondlae Cujo 20 which has 2.6" tyres and set at 10-12psi give a reasonable amount of cushioning. We've tackled a few blue trails and she's not a downhill demon so it suited her very well.
Just moving her up to a Commencal 24" rigid (in stock!) with the same 2.6" tyres, but may switch in a suspension fork in time - if I can find anything that's a decent price/weight.
+1 for Early Rider, we have a 20" belter trail 3S and it's been fantastic, wee man was about the same ages as yours when he started riding it.
He's grown out of it and we have a 24" rig on order for him so it's been pased down to my 6-year old daughter who needs the seat slammed right down but is already ripping round on it.
Two best upgrades I can recomend are decent pedals and sticky shoes, makes a huge difference to thier confidence, the kids 5:10's can be picked up 2nd hand for sensible money.
Mine was on a 24″ before his 6th birthday… he still had room on the 20″ but we wanted disk brakes and forks.
Did you not find he struggled with manoeuvring it? Junior RRR loves razzing around the BMX track as well as MTB trails - worried he’d be perched up on a 24”? 🤔
Did you not find he struggled with manoeuvring it? Junior RRR loves razzing around the BMX track as well as MTB trails – worried he’d be perched up on a 24”?
Not really ... as in at that age every different bike seems to be a new experience... and it was quite a small 24". He played with it on the indoor pump track at 417 and at the other end rode GBU (without the drops) at FOD.
We did keep the 20" and he never went back on it (must actually sell it).... whereas when he got the full suss 24 later he went back and forwards with the HT and then after we sold the 24" HT (to his mate) he used the 24" FS for a while on jumps over his 27.5 with 26" wheels... The 20" was the only one he never wanted to ride again. [even when it may have been better]
He was mainly just happy with the increased rollover on trails and the 60mm of suspension on the RST F1rst air over rigid.
The main differences were he got a proper groupset and I had to make decent length cranks... (which I'm still doing at 11)
Another Early Rider vote here. Based on comments from others, I was a bit uncertain about weight vs benefit at this size, but after watching him thrash down trails in the Alps over the summer I'm very happy we went for it.
The forks are decent enough, but fairly basic. Internally, they're just greased rather than oil bath, and the -ve spring is a fixed coil spring which is a bit too strong for running lower pressures suitable for a 5yo.
Proud dad holiday photo excuse?
Spawn bikes but not sure if they are available in the UK (I'm in Canada)
Whilst suspension is good I still think the tires and gears make the most difference.
What are those 20" Maxxis pdw? Sweajnr runs out of traction quite often.
Depending on size and budget you might be able to get him on a 24" Vpace as they claim to size small.
https://www.vpace.de/produkt/max24-kinderbike/
Early riders are awesome, but alot of money for something that may only fit for a year.
We picked up a specialized riprock, wee fat bike at the right price. I took the bouncy forks off & put some onza rigid ones on. That saved 2kg. Then swapped the fat tyres & tubes for a set of 1.95 Schwalbe ones & saved another 3kg, so it was now approaching early rider weight.
9 months later, and now riding forestry trail centre reds, the fat tyres went back on, buying a little more time before upgrade time.
Probably the best money spent though, was on a set of Clarks hydro discs. The original tektro mechanical discs are just no good for little hands (too much effort to pull).
If anybody is looking to move on a decent 20" wheel bike between now and Christmas, let me know as my lad is ready to move up.
As others have said, trying to find anything new that's in stock or available on-line is proving impossible.
I was particularly looking for a Cannondale Cujo or similar for the low stand over height.
What are those 20″ Maxxis pdw?
MaxxDaddy in 1.85"
If its any help to anyone, I have a set of new, unused Suntour 20" forks (these ones: https://www.tredz.co.uk/.SR-Suntour-XCT-JR-40mm-Travel-20-Suspension-Fork_89704.htm) sitting doing nothing. Bought at the start of lockdown for mini-DBW #00002 but his Islabike is a 1" steerer and I stupidly didn't even think to check. By the time I'd got around to trying them it had been too long to send them back so they're in the garage.
Paid about £60 for them I think, brand spankers, new uncut 1.125" steerer. Would take a couple of bottles of nice wine and/or a few craft beers for them as they're just in the way.
Just get one of these: Carbon XS
... or not.
The suspension my kids have had on their 20 and 24 bikes has been a total waste of time. It adds more weight than it's worth.
Fat tyres with the right pressure are great though. YMMV.
My daughter is riding a rigid Team MX20 with the stock Small Block 8s, plenty for pootling round blue at Glentress at low pressure.
I'd sooner go fat than suspended at that size, the weight penalty compared to effectiveness must be terrible, I know not all kids are equal but they would have to be thrashing them to get anything out of most forks.
Manitou do have the J-Unit forks, seen them on a few BMX setups.
Based on the 24 forks I would avoid suntour forks. The 24 xcr sir is pretty heavy with pretty average performance.
No suspension forks but my son is on a Cujo 24, he’s 8 but tall for his age (142cm)
Really happy with it, pretty light for what it is and the huge tyres and low standover make it pretty planted.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Hmmm, so it seems suspension forks probably aren’t worth it unless I’m spending ££££ on a bike for the boy?
Next question is whether he’ll safely fit on a 24”? I don’t reeeeally want to take him to a bike shop to test as it was going to be a surprise. Hmm
how tall is he?
biggest issue we found on a 24" is that to get the saddle low enough to get on/off then the leg extension for pedaling is really poor. my son could climb better on his 20" than on a 24", cutting the cranks right down to 125 helped and its getting better as he grows.
downhill is way faster.
My lad was around 135 ish cm when he started on the Cujo24, saddle as low as possible, this was about a year ago. Like I said he’s 140 now (growing fast!) and it’s pretty much perfect for him now.
I've taken a different route; a friend very (very) kindly gave me two pairs of Fox Floats for our two. I stripped one pair down and used the push pin on the air shaft plus spacers to drop the travel down to about 60-ish mm for the eldest's Orbea MX 24, which gave the same a-c with sag as the rigid forks on there. The downside to this is that (if your kid's bike is the rim brake version) you'll need to buy at least a front disc brake and a front wheel capable of taking a disc. On the positive, as they get bigger and move up to 26" wheels they can take the forks with them to the new bike.
Ropey Reign Rider how tall is your son?
My 7 1/2 year old daughter has just moved from a 20" Orbea MX20 Disk to a 24" H20 Laufey 24 - these are in very short supply at the moment and if you don't get one of the few in the UK the next batch is due in Feb 2021.
My daughter is 129cm and is able to ride the Laufey 24 just fine, the dropper post at full extension is a little too tall for her just now but she has already figured out how to set it at the correct ride height.
For the forks to be effective for kids IMO they have to be air. The Laufey has SR Suntour air forks and they seem to be working well. She is able to get some benifit from them over rocks and roots, bumping down kerbs and little drops. We tried a Commencal with coil forks and she was not able to get them to move more than 5 -10 mm. Another friend has a Nukeproof Scout with the Manitou J-Unit forks and they work well too.
Erm, I’m not actually sure how tall the boy is .. I should probably check!😃
What makes the Orbea Laufeys betterer than the standard MX range, are they just better alloy/lighter?
i started a thread on this but no response, apologies for the hijack...what decent 24" mtb tyre are around? I dont feel my lad needs a susension forks at all, but an upgrade to his stock 2.0 wide rubbish tyres would help a great deal
I'd love to get my Daughter a Hellion 20, I saw one at FOD a few weeks ago, but I can't spare £1200 at the moment.
I've been trying to hunt down a Orbea MX 20 Team, there was one on eBay a few weeks ago that went for about the same money as the standard one, it was collection only in London... I wish I bought it now and just wrote off a day to get it.
Schwalbe do the Hans Dampf and the Rocket Ron in 24" that's what I'll be putting on the nipper's Ripcord when it arrives.
The stock Minions will be saved for when (if!) we ever get to the Alps or BPW).
Best solution I've seen to suspension for kids is this - the big 20x2.6/24x2.6 tyres work better than any of the forks I've seen, lighter too, plus grip. And what child won't love tyres with "SEND IT" on the sidewall?
cheers for the tyre suggestions. those Vee ones on the commencal look amazing, but 810gm!
For 2021 the Mx 20 trail bike and Mx 24 trail have moved over to the Laufey range. If you are looking for a kids bike with disks and an air fork then you need to look at the Laufey range rather than the MX range.
I’d love to get my Daughter a Hellion 20, I saw one at FOD a few weeks ago, but I can’t spare £1200 at the moment.
Yeah that's getting silly. I paid half that for a new but end-of-line 20HT, including the upgrade to hydro brakes.
If you're interested in ER, it's worth scouring Facebook both marketplace and the dedicated ER buy/sell group. The suspension bikes are like hen's teeth, but often well-priced and in good nick when they do come up.
"cheers for the tyre suggestions. those Vee ones on the commencal look amazing, but 810gm"
Indeed. Some of these are shuttle only tires in my opinion especially as they don't appear to be tubeless.
In terms of if a fork is useful for a 20" bike sweajnr does get full travel out of his air fork. But if it's more effective than a big low pressure plus tire is debatable.
Making sure the pressures are low enough is also a challenge. Sweajnr is running 9psi....
Early Rider Seeker 20" (and no doubt the 24") have great trail geo and tyre clearance....our 6 year old has 2.4 Veetire flow snaps which are like a kids Maxxis Minion DHF....set up tubeless and running 12-15 psi they are a great alternative to the added weight of a fork. As I think you've realised, you have to spend big money to get a kid specific/tuned air fork that will actually begin to work for their minimum relative weight! Here's the bike and a sample of it in action with pilot Charlie on the lower part of "Lower Cliffs" at Cannock Chase.
20" Earlyrider Seeker in "Beast" Mode!
230gm total weight increase over the stock 2.25 Veetire Crown Gems and worth every gram....they've also made tech climbing much better due to the phenomenal traction.
As I think you’ve realised, you have to spend big money to get a kid specific/tuned air fork that will actually begin to work for their minimum relative weight!
Depends if £170 or so is "big money" .. seems cheap compared to most forks
https://www.bike24.com/brands/rst?cohort=children
Another vote for Early Rider. We picked up a 20HT for about £500. It's worth giving them a call as they occasionally have shop seconds at reduced prices but don't advertise them. A couple of mates have picked up ones this way and the only thing wrong was some marks in the powdercoating.
Depends if £170 or so is “big money” .. seems cheap compared to most forks
https://www.bike24.com/brands/rst?cohort=children
/blockquote>That did look promising....but....out of stock....9-10 weeks delivery on that link. Quick look and there seem to be none available on the planet. Suspect as a 1 1/8th it’s end of line as the high end kids forks have all gone tapered. Think that’s why it’s so cheap... it’s possibly out of production and definitely unavailable!
That did look promising….but….out of stock….9-10 weeks delivery on that link. Quick look and there seem to be none available on the planet. Suspect as a 1 1/8th it’s end of line as the high end kids forks have all gone tapered. Think that’s why it’s so cheap… it’s possibly out of production and definitely unavailable!
They aren't cheap now from a UK PoV, the Euro price has been the same for the last 5 yrs.
They get them in batches ... same with the other German sites. (They will all get them more or less at once)
They are all switchable steerers ... and steerers are really cheap though you can just run a crown race conversion. It's not like a kids weight will make this an issue.
However for us this is last chance to buy ... I doubt there will be another delivery cycle before the end of December... and I would expect its not going to be worthwhile for the German companies to continue supply to the UK.
Thanks all, budget wise I’m afraid we’re looking at £300 ish rather than £800 (I’m a poor mature student , woe is me etc)
Junior RRR is about 126cm so it looks like he might just be able to fit a 24” bike ok? I measured the stand over height of some in the local lbs and they look ok compared to his old bike.
So, what 24” rigid kids bike that’s available and exists, for about £300?! 😃
I’m a poor mature student , woe is me etc
So, what 24” rigid kids bike that’s available and exists, for about £300?!
My last new bike was 1986 or so... my kid has never had a "new" bike even back when I had a 'good job'.
Get looking through classifieds... check FB groups for kids (Little Rippers recycled for one).
Many don't come up nationally so join local groups and as a bonus many of these will have had the rubbish parts in that price bracket replaced already.
If you look after it then it will sell for what you paid more or less.
Stevextc
Yep will do. Both my boys have never had new bikes but I thought I might try to get junior RRR a new one if at all possible as it *should* last him a fair while if he fits a 24” .
I’m definitely on the look out for secondhand too though
Commencal have the Ramones 24, that's what I have just got for my daughter, but it comes in a little over £400 by the time it's in the UK. The 2021 models are apparently on pre-order for early November but mine turned up about a week after ordering so suspect that's just to try and shift the 2020 models. Maybe have that in reserve...
Ideally I was going to get a Cujo 24 but think that there aren't going to be any in the country until Feb.