Kenevo SL. Anyone bought one then wished they'd got a Levo?

I think there a few who have bought a Lev SL and regretted it. Try the KSL. See if the power available meets your needs/expectations. 35nm max is not a lot compared to the non-SL versions.

@iainC on here went from a FF Levo to a Levo SL, just to buck the trend.
There been rumors the SL motor would be uprated with more power on a replacment model which has been due for over a year or two now...
Worth searching/posting on Emtb forums too

I've had a quick go on the KSL in a car park but I'm struggling to find anywhere that'll let me demo one properly. It felt ok in the carpark but obviously not enough of a blast to give me a good idea...

Bought a KSL and never looked back?

👋 Me. Went from a Rail to a KSL and don't regret it one little bit. The KSL is a far better bike downhill, which is what it's all about for me. I recently took the Rail out for a change and uphill was hilarious; just so much power it's silly.

At non-eBike pace on winch and plummet days I can easily do 50+ KM and 1800m climbing over 2 days on 1 battery and the RE and I'm a lazy fat knacker.

May be worth bearing in mind all ebikes tend to break down now and again.
If this will be your only bike then that could leave you out of action when the inevitable happens.

Spesh warranty is great, but I'm sure the turn around isnt instant.
Personally speaking I'd be annoyed if I lost riding time, and if my eeb was my only bike then yes...I would have lost riding time.

Spesh warranty is great, but I’m sure the turn around isn't instant.

Depends entirely on the dealer. I was at Raceco for a replacement pivot bolt and they noticed the motor had too much play in the cranks so swapped it out on the spot.

I'm down the road from Raceco, I'll be buying from them!

z1ppy
Free Member
@iainC on here went from a FF Levo to a Levo SL, just to buck the trend.
There been rumors the SL motor would be uprated with more power on a replacment model which has been due for over a year or two now…
Worth searching/posting on Emtb forums too

Posted 1 hour ago

almost, I went Orbea Wild to Levo SL. As a reasonably fit rider, for me the SL is a better bike. It has more than enough power to help me on steep climbs (I have some heart problems), yet is light enough to feel pretty much the same as a regular Stumpy on the flats and downs. Plus it is ok to lift over gates, into car etc.

It had a few small issues in first year, all sorted under warranty at local dealer. It is now 2.5 yrs old and I replaced the motor last month as the bearings were starting to hang up a little.

Specialized did it at 40% discount and I sold on the original motor for repair so net cost to me was about £300.

I have upgraded a lot over the couple of years, fork to a Fox 36 with 160mm travel, bars, stem, and have AXS shifting and dropper on it.

You could be me.
Been riding a 130mm S6 stumpjumper for a while and want to get back to going in the peak district often. But no where near as fit as some years ago.
After thinking about it for about a year the current price drop on an KSL expert and 0% finance persuaded me.
I spent some time comparing geometry and it depends on you current bike size.
As I ride an s6 stumpjumper the biggest levo SL was 2" shorter. The S5 KSL is only 18mm shorter reach and similar in other areas.

When I got the bike I had one ride and had a fairly substantial pedal strike after that it was set up to steepest and highest BB settings. Oh and follow the suspension set up on specialized web site, seems fairly accurate

Am currently loving it but not used to E assist e.g. turbo mode feels weird with the difference between effort and speed, I start a ride on Eco then switch to trail at the first climb.

Get a mud hugger (the new one with the extension) and trim the extension so it fits past the chainstay and it will stop a lot of mud from the rear wheel getting near the low shock, eventually I will get some shorter cranks though.

I’m predominantly a normally aspirated rider, went from a Rail to a Levo to a KSL which I got very bored of very quickly and back on a Rail.

I’m quite happy doing a 2000m day on the leg bike, & the KSL didn’t actually make riding much quicker, unless I rode it in Turbo & that would flatten the battery so quickly, it was pointless. I couldn’t really use it for lunchtime power laps & it couldn’t even get close to a FF range. Appreciate everyone is different, but for me an ebike is to be sufficiently different to my normal bikes & well, it wasn’t.

The Rail is a better bike overall for me. It gives up a few % going down, but it’s better everywhere else, and in reality, was only a couple of kilos more in weight by the time you put a decent set of wheels & tyres on the KSL.

That said I don’t rate the back end on the new Levo, that was one of the shorted owned bikes I’ve ever had.

For me e-bikes are all about smashing the laps out quickly, or when I’m so cooked from riding the normal bike, I want them to do the work so it’s a full power one for me 🙂

We’re all different however.

I think I'm pretty close to HobNob.

I've got a Decoy and a Levo SL. I bought the Levo because I thought the Decoy was too heavy and I didn't need the power it offered and I planned to sell the Decoy soon after. This isn't as flash as it sounds, I bought the Decoy in C2W and the Levo was second hand.

The Levo SL is much better overall in that the weight is close to my Sentinel, and it's really nice to ride but it's not sufficiently different to mechanical and I often and easily put out enough power on the climbs that the motor doesn't top up with much extra.

I think they are both compromised, one on weight, and one on power. The newer stuff coming out, around 40lb and 60Nm is where I think the sweet spot is. I'll be getting rid of both for a new Orbea Wild when I can get around to selling them and can get a Wild as a replacement - or maybe the new Transition Relay when it comes out.

That said, for the last month or two I haven't ridden the bike at all and I've really enjoyed riding the normal bike again, albeit annoyed that the bike has robbed me of the top end power I definitely had before I got lazy... After a few great years on an e-bike, I think I could easily return to a normal bike for a while - I've missed the lightness.

Thanks all, really good comments. It's interesting how different people's opinions are but I guess it does all boil down to personal preference.

The more I think about it, as much as I wouldn't mind the extra torque, the £1k cheaper price of the KSL is a bit of a deal breaker.

E bikes for me should have the full grunt when you want it.

I've got a 1st Gen full fat Kenevo - weighs 25kgs, but there's only the odd occassion you notice the heft. I probably spend 90% of the time in eco @ 25% assist. Sometimes on a steep climb I'll go to trail @ 50%. But when you really need a dig to get you through something, the full turbo is ace. Also good if you've done a ride and have a dull slog home - whack it on full beans and get back. Just as happy eating some road miles up as it is smashing down a rock garden. As for the DH - it's quicker for me than my Capra was

They’ll take my Stumpy in PX and give me a healthy discount off the tag of a new bike. They’ve currently got in a KSL comp at £5600 and the Levo Carbon Comp at £6600

I hope that isnt with the PX, as currently spesh have the KSL comp at £5425
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-kenevo-sl-comp/p/199105?color=318000-199105

Maybe best test riding then buy direct. Keep your analogue bike.

Probably a thread drift, but I hired a Rail a few days ago....the motor packed in halfway round the trail (Swinley) about the furthest point from the start....

It was perfectly rideable without assist, but it's really put me off TBH. It felt alright when it did work, but not the revelation I was expecting.

My mate on a Levo SL was way behind when my motor worked and reasonably matched when mine was dead.

Think I'll just stick to my triggers broom of a FS....

I hired a Rail a few days ago….the motor packed in halfway round the trail (Swinley) about the furthest point from the start….

It was perfectly rideable without assist, but it’s really put me off TBH. It felt alright when it did work, but not the revelation I was expecting.

I rode my Shan HT bike round Swinley last summer. A couple of weeks later I rode my Kenevo round Swinley - the Kenevo was so much more fun

I will try again soon, I've got a free re-hire after my experience....

Full power kenevo owner here.
I don't own a kenevo sl but have tried a couple of them.

My take is though the sl was lighter it wasn't light enough for the little power it had.
It didn't really give anything that my pedal powered bikes don't.
Personally I'll stick with either riding a leg powered bike or a full powered bike as I do at the moment.
The sl just seems to be stuck in a no mans land. It either needs to be lighter or have more power.

KSL here, came from a full fat Scott Ransom. Found the scott to be a heffalump, good in a straight line and that was about it, didn't go round corners all that well, I liked that I could ride with my mates on their eeeb, but detested riding it, when it shit itself, test rode a KSL and didn't look back.

For me the KSL means you can go further in a day and put more climbing in. Most I've had out of it in a day is 9000ft, one main battery and three range extenders, the lads on the big eebs were struggling with upper body fatigue by the end of the day, my legs were shot to pieces instead!

KSL goes downhill very well, not quite as good as my G1, but pretty damn close. Its a little bit shorter overall, if they did an S4.5 with a 455mm back end it would be perfect for me.

Never ride the bike in turbo and as a result have altered the 3 modes quite a bit. The latest software update seemed to make quite a difference in the level of assistance and a bit more range.
Eco is 35/45
Trail 50/60
Turbo 70/80

Can get around 4000ft out of the main battery in trail, still feels like a good leg workout and pushing hard in 'turbo' can get a bit less, but 2000ft an hour. If you try and hurry the KSL, it will drain the battery quickly, but if you ride somehere between a full fat and an NA bike up the hills, its pretty economical.

But the range and power of the Levo is a draw… the Levo is almost a grand more mind you.

Range? I've not yet ridden with a full-fat that had the range I've got (combination of fitness, battery and lack of power), regularly do 7000ft of elevation (with the extender).

I bought a KSL after renting one from the Bike Shop in Innerleithen (Alpine at Glentress also hire them). Best £85 I've spent in a long while.

I then bought an Expert (£800 more than the Comp in the Black Friday sales but better components plus more importantly a top-spec Fox 38). I'm fit but old and found that I was struggling with 3-4 rides a week on my normal bikes, the KSL helps fill the energy gap.

I wanted the geometry as per my analogue Cotic, luckily in the Tweed Valley so lots of steep off-piste.

It's not got the power of a full-fat, but I don't want a motorbike - it will though get up/down anything I want to do, and rides just like a normal bike really (sub 19kg with pedals/cage etc and Michelin Wild Enduro's).

One thing to be aware of, if you hold the handlebar + button the bike drops into a +/-10% mode where each press up/down moves the power by 10% - I use this every time as it's easier to 'trim' the power to need rather than the big steps of Eco/Trail/Turbo.

I've had it 3.5 months and done nearly 800 miles - first motor went at <500 miles, replaced within the week.

My usual advice to anyone buying a new bike is go try and demo, if you can't demo then spending <£100 to establish that something costing +£5k isn't what you want is reasonable value.

Sams Bikes is a no nonsense place to start. Has pretty much all the combinations your looking for.

last two comments by SirHC and intheborders are music to my ears, thanks for contributing.

I'm sold on the KSL.

Now to decide on spec, whether Comp or Expert level. On paper the extra £1k for the expert gets you quite a bit more with the bigger forks, better rear shock and slightly better wheels... I'd have likely upgraded the forks on the cheaper comp version pretty early on to a set of Factory 38s so maybe cancel that idea and just stump for the Expert off the bat. I just wish I liked the colours, I'm not that buzzed on the expert offerings. The Peach in comp spec is very nice though, and the gloss black / raw carbon would be easy to live with.

First world problems I guess!

Didn't fancy the peach, all my bikes are black or dark colours! I would of changed quite a bit on the expert, so wen't with the comp, if the sworks frame was in the dark green, would of gone frame only.

certini have some big discounts(40%) on ex-demo KSL's

Now to decide on spec, whether Comp or Expert level.

I had the same dilemma. As I had forks, shock, wheels and AXS gears waiting to go on I decided on the Comp in Smoke. Without those parts I would have chosen the Expert.

Originally I was going to buy the cheaper version and swap out the 36 for my Lyric Ultimate, that's when the Comp's were £7.5k and Expert's £9.5k. But at the discounted price, bu99er it and leave the Lyric on my Cotic.

I did decide early on whichever version I bought I'd be replacing the brakes as I just don't get on with SRAM's, swapped to Saints and Galfer rotors - very happy with it.

Already stretched one chain, and the 2nd is at 0.5 so will be replaced this week along with the tyres as they are now pretty sha99ed.

I've got nothing!

All my nice parts will be going with the Stumpy, unfortunately. In the trade I will see if I can negotiate me keeping my AXS bits but sadly the Fox 38s I have won't easily transfer over to a KSL, otherwise I'd happily get the Comp. Looks like I'll be looking down the back of the sofa for some extra change for the Expert model :/

I've got the comp KSL and it's extra weight actually makes the fork work better than I thought it would.
The fact it's not full heavyweight makes it stable but still pretty agile

As for the power at 70kg and pretty fit but feeling all my 53years. The eco will do for most climbs, the trail is good for fast climbs will give 1000m but importantly allow it to be done in half the time (either because its a bit quicker but also no need to stop at the top) turbo only for a few ridiculous steep bits, which wouldn't be feasible more than once in a non-e.
I love it and since getting it probably 50:50 it and my hardtail pace. Lots of tweed valley steepness.

gavinnn

sadly the Fox 38s I have won’t easily transfer over to a KSL,

Why not?

I don't own either of the bikes you're looking at but thought I'd stick my oar in anyway as an Orbea Rise owner.

Not to try and sway you to a Rise, but slightly objectively on the low power/low weight thing.

My Rise is just over 20kg now and I have it set to Eco/22nM Trail/42nM and Boost/60nM.

It's somewhere between slightly heavier and moderately heavier than the KSL, depending on which model you compare it to.

I find 42nM is actually more than I feel like I need most of the time but 22nM in Eco isn't enough so the KSL at 30 on paper sounds perfect. Particularly if I could magically lose another 2kg I'd the bike!

With 22nM in Eco, the bike feels the same as my hardtail in terms of how much effort it needs to pedal it along/ up things. HT is an Orange Crush built up on the light side that weighs considerably less than the Rise.

I rarely use boost but when I do its because either I'm knackered on the way back to car or because of the extra momentum that it gives rather than all out power. There's another option in the setup that Orbea (or Shimano?) refer to as 'Assistance Characteristic'. I don't know whether the KSL has something similar? To me, This is a much more useful option to fiddle with as it makes it easier (or harder) to achieve the maximum power. With it set to a low value, you have to work much, much harder to get the assistance whereas setting a high number means the assistance is available easier.

I reckon with a high assistance value, 30nM would probably be a good level of power for a light bike with a fit and enthusiastic rider on board.

The reason I went for the Rise was because I didn't want an 'E Bike', I wanted an MTB with a bit of assistance which is what I've found in the Rise. The KSL sounds very similar, just with less weight and less power (and more money which was what ruled it out for me).

If you treat the KSL as you probably would any other bike and stick some lighter wheels on there, more efficient tyres, lighter cassette etc, the gains from those will be the same as they would on a normal bike. Less effort for you, more range from the battery which is only going to improve things.

Yes it's nice knowing I've got extra power in reserve if and when I need it but if I was stuck with my 42nM and had nothing more, I doubt I'd think I needed it.

If you've got 30nM and that's all you've got, you'll adjust your riding style to suit that. You'll have to attack the hills a bit harder than on a full power bike but it won't really be any different from riding a normal bike.

I had a KSL, and before that had a whyte e150 full fat. I recently sold it though - mainly as I’m not riding much at the moment and when I do ride I need the exercise so back to a normal bike.

If you’re riding proper enduro trails fast, the KSL is a hell of a bike. The back end is fantastic. And the power is perfect for giving a bit of help without being OTT like a full fat bike is. The lack of weight (relatively) makes it handle way better than the whyte.

Two things - the seatpost insertion is crap, and on my S4 at 180cm I could only run a 150mm dropper (I’ve got relatively short legs). That annoyed me. The second thing isn’t a problem with the bike, but it is a super capable 170mm travel weapon, and for a lot of my riding it was just too much bike, engine or not. I prefer shorter travel bikes with proper geo unless I’m riding somewhere really rough and fast.

I've got a full fat ebike (orbea wild fs - ~24kg) and a lightweight ebike (trek fuel exe - ~19kg). These days I mostly only ride the trek, because I prefer the lower weight.

If you're only going to be riding on your own then I'd say you wont miss the full fat ebike, but if you were going to be riding with others on full fat bikes a lot then you might find a lightweight ebike a bit undergunned, but it all depends how the other riders ride their full fats, and how fit you are.

Before I bought the trek I deliberated long and hard about getting a KSL instead (they look decent value with the discounts) , but I had a couple of concerns about the KSL. Firstly, they've been around a while now and the motor is lower powered compared to the competition, and its rumoured there will be a more powerful version announced soon (hence the discounts) . Secondly when I tested one it felt a little too low on power, plus the motor whine is horrendous (IMO).

#participateinmyfreemarketresearchwarning

Sorry to hijack the thread but I was interested to know from the riders of the mid spec engines what power outputs they had their engines set to. Are you just tweaking the torque but leaving the power at max, or are you tweaking the power too? If so what power max are you settling for in each setting?

The reason I went for the Rise was because I didn’t want an ‘E Bike’, I wanted an MTB with a bit of assistance which is what I’ve found in the Rise. The KSL sounds very similar, just with less weight and less power (and more money which was what ruled it out for me).

I did have a 2-day demo of a Rise (and also a full-fat Cube). I liked the Rise and with the alloy bike having a bigger battery plus the extender it was an option, but, too much of a trail bike style geometry. Fine for most stuff but it was a bit out of its depth on rougher trails here. The Trek Fuel EXE was an option, but mega-money for the spec.

The full-fat Cube was fine while riding, but just too heavy/cumbersome for everything else - workshop, car etc.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I was interested to know from the riders of the mid spec engines what power outputs they had their engines set to. Are you just tweaking the torque but leaving the power at max, or are you tweaking the power too? If so what power max are you settling for in each setting?

with the trek fuel exe you cant set torque, you just get the following parameters in each mode ( 3 modes in total)

- Assist % - How much power the motor will produce as a percentage of what you are generating with your legs ,is configurable in a range from something like 20% up to 200%, so if you're putting in 200w, and this is set to 100%, then the motor will add another 200w (asumming that the max power - see below- is not set lower)
- max power - a power output limit that the motor will not exceed (max 300w)
- pedal response - how quickly the motor ramps up to the desired assist power

I tend to vary the settings depending on whether I think i'm going to be depleting the battery to zero on any given ride.

trying to eke out max range I use the following

mode 1 : assist 40%, max power 180w
mode 2 : assist 125%, max power 180w
mode 3 : assist 150%, max power 300w

and I will ride mainly in mode 1, my average speed on these kinds of rides will be about 8.5 - 9.5mph

If I know I wont have a problem with range

mode 1 : assist 40%, max power 300w
mode 2 : assist 125%, max power 300w
mode 3 : assist 170%, max power 300w

and I will ride mainly in mode 2 or 3,my average speed on these kind of rides will be about 11mph

Sorry to hijack the thread but I was interested to know from the riders of the mid spec engines what power outputs they had their engines set to. Are you just tweaking the torque but leaving the power at max, or are you tweaking the power too? If so what power max are you settling for in each setting?

I've tweaked mine from stock:
Eco is 35/45
Trail 50/60
Turbo 70/80

Explanation here: https://support.specialized.com/home/missioncontrol/en/using-mission-control/tune-your-bike

Sorry to hijack the thread but I was interested to know from the riders of the mid spec engines what power outputs they had their engines set to. Are you just tweaking the torque but leaving the power at max, or are you tweaking the power too? If so what power max are you settling for in each setting?

I initially tweaked them using the app but then settled on using just using the +/- 10% approach.

Hold down the handlebar '+' button until mode changes, then move up '+'/down '-' as needed, from 0% through to 100%. It means rather than having the large jumps between the 3 modes (eco/trail/turbo) you can just have a bit more or a bit less, or if needed go straight from 10% to 90% say. Really helps with range.

benpinnick

#participateinmyfreemarketresearchwarning

Sorry to hijack the thread but I was interested to know from the riders of the mid spec engines what power outputs they had their engines set to. Are you just tweaking the torque but leaving the power at max, or are you tweaking the power too? If so what power max are you settling for in each setting?

Any progress on Ethic, Ben? Was really interested in some of the plans you had talked about, can only imagine the challenges in rolling them out

Any progress on Ethic, Ben? Was really interested in some of the plans you had talked about, can only imagine the challenges in rolling them out

The full fat one is paused while we contemplate the challenges of warranty and support. We're also working on a lightweight one, hence the interest in what people are running.

Cool... am waiting with interest. The warranty side must be a huge challenge, given the reliability of them in general, but great that you're trying to do something better.

The full fat one is paused while we contemplate the challenges of warranty and support. We’re also working on a lightweight one, hence the interest in what people are running.

Will be interesting to see how the EP801 is compared to the EP800, had a couple of mates who have been plagued with EP800 motors failing relatively quickly, ridden once a week, never jet washed and the motor just stops.

I do wonder how the EP800 faired in the Orbea Rise's, being lower power, did they see the same issues.

Spesh seems to have it ticked as far as the support goes, yes their motors fail, but the turnaround from what I have seen an experienced is pretty good. I would buy another spesh eeb on the support alone.

Just to helpfully(?) comment that although the KSL has 'only' 35Nm, it's not as far away as you might think to a full 85Nm in terms of how/when it gives its power. Nm numbers aren't the whole story. I'd have a KSL before I'd have a 50Nm TQ ebike, for example.

I do wonder how the EP800 faired in the Orbea Rise’s, being lower power, did they see the same issues.

I have a mate whos on his 4th ep8 in his rise - its just packed up again, so soon to be 5th motor. No jetwashing, but ridden in all conditions all year round - has probably covered a total of 1200-1500 miles.

Just to helpfully(?) comment that although the KSL has ‘only’ 35Nm, it’s not as far away as you might think to a full 85Nm in terms of how/when it gives its power. Nm numbers aren’t the whole story. I’d have a KSL before I’d have a 50Nm TQ ebike, for example.

There was a test with a levo sl and a load of other bikes, think it was MBR and the results were surprising, see if I can find it.

ALso found this: https://www.mtbr.com/threads/trek-fuel-ex-e-vs-specialized-levo-sl-vs-santa-cruz-blur-xc-climb-speed-test-with-constant-rider-power.1214639/

No, but did buy a Levo which I sold after 6 rides and got a Kenevo SL. Super happy with the SL

– max power – a power output limit that the motor will not exceed (max 300w)

This show the joke that the the current ebike regs are. 35nm gives a power in excess of the alleged limit. A common FF ebike is 85nm and at 90rm that's 800W

FWIW I was out yesterday with a pal on his new Canyon (the 900 battery) and my KSL.

He dialed his power down and we rode at a pace that suited me and although I was putting in more effort (backed up by comparing our HRM afterwards), if he hadn't he wouldn't have had the range that me & my bike have - even though he's twice the battery capacity.

Did over 6000ft and nearly 40 miles with a good 80-90% offroad, lot's of it soft and muddy and had plenty of battery range left.

On the full power side
Yesterdays ride was 5250 ft/1600 meters all offroad in two hours fifteen and I still had 50% battery left.

No turning any settings down but did stay in eco until half way up the last climb when I treated myself to a couple of minutes of trail mode.
My HR was fairly close to a similar ride on my leg powered bike that took around double the time.
I've not ridden with anyone on a SL that can get near that. Including a mate who has the new Forestal who's a stronger rider than me.

Other peoples ranges are pointless as they're not the same.😉

I’ve not ridden with anyone on a SL that can get near that. Including a mate who has the new Forestal who’s a stronger rider than me.

Agree. I couldn’t even get close to my 625wH Bosch climbing record, and was even further away from a 700wH Gen3 Levo that was turned down.

I tried to do some big days out on the KSL & had it turned right down (15% assistance) and the most I could get out of it was 1750m which wasn’t pleasant and that’s with a range extender, in fact I would say it was probably harder than a normal bike. I’m about 85kg and fit enough to do a 2000m vert day on a leg bike in less than 5 hours, so I don’t think fitness was the issue…

I can get 2700m out of a Bosch bike & 3K+ out of a Levo for comparison.

I tried to do some big days out on the KSL & had it turned right down (15% assistance) and the most I could get out of it was 1750m which wasn’t pleasant and that’s with a range extender, in fact I would say it was probably harder than a normal bike. I’m about 85kg and fit enough to do a 2000m vert day on a leg bike in less than 5 hours, so I don’t think fitness was the issue…

You must be doing something different (wrong?) to me then, cadence too low maybe, especially if you can do over 1000ft per hour on an analogue bike. Yesterday I used everything from 10% to 100% and all settings in-between with 40-50% for most of the climbing. And 80kg plus new Michelin Wild Enduro's.

Not doing anything any different on this bike than any others. Comfortable climbing pace on the naturally aspirated bike is ~400m an hour & I can push at 500m if I’m less fussed about being fresh for the downhills. Tyre choice will play a small part as I ran DH22/34’s on it, but still running them on the Rail anyway.

I would say my experience is I get more range out of a KSL from everyone else I know who rides them, or has ridden them locally.

Ultimately, the above is basically why it didn’t really work for me.

I’ve found that riding with the full fat eeebs, the climbing speed is what knackers the lightweights range and battery. I’ll climb at a pace I can maintain all day and at the end of the day it makes very little difference, as it’s just less time spent at the bottom of the hill and a a bit more time on the pedalling.

Fresh motor and battery in mine, so range and power is back where it should be!

Levo SL owner on eco 85% of the time its ideal, despite what the reviews say I find it handles
Well on off piste / steep runs. There is a new SL coming out soon so could be worth hanging on for a little while.

The full fat one is paused while we contemplate the challenges of warranty and support. We’re also working on a lightweight one, hence the interest in what people are running.

I saw one of your Ethic protos out on the trails last week and had a chat with the rider (nice bloke btw) who said as much about the project being paused.  I’m not generally a fan of how e-bikes look, but to be honest it looked a lot better than most I’ve seen. Are you considering other motor brands too?

Rise owner here and AFAIR, I run mine with the following torque; Eco, around low to mid 20´s, Trail 34 or 38Nm, Boost 60Nm. For context, I’m just old enough to have a bus pass, relatively fit for my age, ride in the Tweed Valley all year round (Typical ride is sub 3 hours with less than 900m climbing). Also tend to spin at a cadence around 90-100rpm.

As far as Rise vs Kenevo SL goes, I’d agree with previous replies - the Rise is quite definitely a trail bike that can dabble in steeper ‘enduro race type’ terrain (mine has 150mm forks and a high rise bar, which helps a bit).

Last week I spent a few hours on a Kenevo SL and, power wise, I was pleasantly surprised by the level of support in Trail mode. It was in default settings, so I gather this enables access to full 35Nm in Trail. Boost was ok, but unsurprisingly not as strong as on the Rise (I also ride analog bikes, so never really feel the need for Boost, apart from when I’m feeling unwell, weather unexpectedly turns awful).

I think if you ride on your own a lot and are reasonably fit the SL’s are spot on. I really liked the Kenevo SL for its capabilities on steep and rough trails, but to me it felt like it needs terrain like that to come alive - on more moderate descents it felt a very dull and muted compared to the Rise, or even my previous Trek Rail. I think the KSL would be fantastic for the trails at The Golfie and Innerleithen TC, but as an ‘all round’ trail bike….hmmm, maybe not? Oh, and stick a range extender on it, and it’s creeping closer to the weight of some full power eebs.

Motors wise, the power delivery and drag of the SL motor felt very similar to the way I have my Rise set up. The SL was noisier on the climbs (like a whistling kettle sound), but quieter on the descents.

I’ve just had the EP8 motor on my Rise replaced after only 700km, which involved a few weeks wait. FWIW, the Bosch perfCX in my Trek had done 3500miles and was still going strong when I sold the bike, and that had been used in all weathers, and washed regularly.

I also demo’d a full fat Levo and, for me, it wasn’t what I was looking for. However, it’s geometry felt a great halfway house between the Rise and KSL and IMO, the power delivery was way better than the Bosch. Nice quite motor and the bike felt very agile and poppy for its weight.

Anyway, I’ll stop blethering now:)

HTH

Are you considering other motor brands too?

yes we're also working on a lightweight option with a different motor. Thats all I can say right now other than I was surprised how heavy all these 'SL' bikes are when I checked. Is it that they run eBike parts still (Like rims etc.). For me the biggest advantage of dropping the weight/Nm is that you don't trash your parts, meaning you can run 'normal' parts and keep the weight down.

Is it that they run eBike parts still (Like rims etc.)

I dont think most of the "SL" type ebike do use ebike parts, think they're on normal bike parts mostly. What does your average modern trail or enduro bike weigh these days - 14kg to 16kg depending on tyres? so add 4kg of motor + battery and you're at 18kg -20kg. The new transition "lightweight" bike is a bit on the heavy side though , think its more than 20kg.

My fuel exe is 19.2kg without pedals, but this is using an ebike specific fox 36 fork (300g heavier than standard fox 36) and ebike wheels (because its what I had spare), it'd be down to around 18.5kg with a normal fox 36 and a set of lighter wheels. Think this is similar to what a high end (ie s works) kenevo sl comes in at.

Think this is similar to what a high end (ie s works) kenevo sl comes in at.

Seems like you are paying a lot of money to get the genuinely 'light' bikes. 4KG all in for the battery/motor/mods to the frame etc. is what I would budget which does tally with the specialized weights - they certainly have that dialled on the high end stuff.

We have both the Levo SL and Turbo Levos. We don't run E specific parts on any of them and can swap out parts both ways if needed with the Enduros and Stumpys.

Seems like you are paying a lot of money to get the genuinely ‘light’ bikes

yeah, prices are nuts *, the list price of the high end bike is way more than the retail cost of the parts + base model bike combined. Thats why I bought the bottom of the range fuel exe and upgraded it with parts I mostly already had, so end up with a highend build at minimal cost.

Think the fuel exe 9.5 list price is now £6400 (although I paid £5750) , weight is 19.9kg out of the box, and has really poor components on it (really low quality given the price) , by using bits I already had and buying a couple of things I ended up with a high end build for not high end prices.

* the exception is orbea with the rise, that does seem pretty good value and quite light too.

Thats all I can say right now other than I was surprised how heavy all these ‘SL’ bikes are when I checked. Is it that they run eBike parts still (Like rims etc.). For me the biggest advantage of dropping the weight/Nm is that you don’t trash your parts, meaning you can run ‘normal’ parts and keep the weight down.

Run the same parts on my G1 as I do on the KSL, I could get both bikes lighter with exo tyres and lighter wheels, but not by much and then there would be the misery of punctures and tyres that dont work.
G1 is 16kg/35.5lbs
KSL is 20kg/44lbs

I found with the full fats, they'd chew through drivetrains and rear wheels pretty quick. But you are doing double the amount of riding on a given day if you are using them properly, we'd frequently be well over 7000ft on two batteries!!

Yes, the Rise comes with normal suspension and wheels rather than eeb specific. I have factory suspension and low-mid spec components on my Rise, with EXO+ tyres, and it’s just under 19kg. My wife’s Rise is noticeably lighter than mine (same size frame) as she prefers less technical trails (her Rise has Fox 34 forks, Hunt trail wide wheels and Schwalbe ´trail’ tyres, there are some light components on there, but drivetrain is predominantly Deore with a lighter cassette - weight wise it’s just under 18kg with pedals).

The KSL I demo’d was boggo ‘comp’ model. It’d got a Rhythm 36 fork and I don’t think it was the eeb version, but gather the Rhythm version has thicker upper stanchions than Factory’s, so guess it may be stiffer but heavier(?). The wheels were not eeb specific, but my guess is there was a lot of weight in them - looked like plain gauge spokes & chunky hubs.

Forgot to mention earlier, while my Rise was in the shop for a new motor, the guys there leant me a top of range new Pivot Shuttle LT full fat - now that was a very fine handling bike for its weight, very ‘hop & pop’. I guess the LT was around the 22kg mark, as it was built up for enduro-ing and had got a 38 on the front. I didn’t notice the weight until loading into my van! The new Shimano EP801 on the bike was noticeably quieter and less rattley than my EP8. It’d be interesting to try the SL version of the Pivot, as I think it uses a different motor(?).

The SL Pivot has a Fazua 60, which might be what Ethic/Bird would be using on their SL.

I've managed to find one (KSL) to demo so I'll be popping over to Ludlow tomorrow for a razz around on one for a couple of hours.

I've been all over the place this week, from deciding on a KSL to a Levo and back again, I've also thought about forgetting the whole thing and just sticking with my Stumpy Evo. The more I look at that bike the more I think I'm being silly about getting an e-mtb, it's close to perfect with all the nice bits I've put on it (Fox 38s, AXS, etc). Trading it in for an e-bike, albeit a very nice one, will be a tough pill to swallow.

In any case we'll know for sure tomorrow what the verdict is on the KSL and whether it's a goer!

Be interested to hear how you get on with the KSL, as I’ve also got a ‘22 Stumpy Evo (that I think is a superb all rounder). I guess you’re already aware that there’s an SL version of the ‘Stevo’ in the pipeline(?). Allegedly, Spesh delayed its release because of the arrival of the Fuel EXe.

just sticking with my Stumpy Evo. The more I look at that bike the more I think I’m being silly about getting an e-mtb, it’s close to perfect with all the nice bits I’ve put on it (Fox 38s, AXS, etc).

I’ve got Fox36s and full AXS on my carbon Levo SL. A Stumpy with a light motor….

Out of interest, has any one raced their SL e-bikes against regular ones? How did you get on? Asking a a bellend chap I know has entered his KSL and thinks that as most e-bikers a fat old biffers (his words) he, a 41yo streak of piss, will clean up. My heart would sing if he got his arse handed to him. It’s the hamsterley trail bike TT next weekend, so there is a 150m flat/slight uphill sprint in the middle, which could have an effect. He already claims it takes more effort to ride than a regular bike on account of the weight. It’s maybe a kilo heavier than the (not e)bike I’ll be racing.

Out of interest, has any one raced their SL e-bikes against regular ones? How did you get on?

Not formally raced, but assuming the course is a loop with significant hills and not predominantly downhill, your mate won't stand a chance. A full fat ebike puts out 600+watts on top of whatever the rider can muster, a kenevo SL puts out 240w on top of whatever the rider can muster, so your mate will have a 360w
deficit to make up with his legs.

If it's just a downhill race (or predominantly downhill) then he might be ok.

Edit just looked up the hamsterly TT, seems to be a mostly DH event, he'll probably be fine.

It’s technically a DH race. Only the ‘down’ is timed, but is a trail centre red, with an uphill ish bit in the middle.

Depends how steep the uphill bit is, if your average ebiker can hit 16mph up it using less than 240w of motor power then your mate will be at no disadvantage on his ksl ,but if it's steep enough that an ebike can't hit the speed limiter even with 600w plus the riders legs then your mate is going to be at a disadvantage.

Nah it’s fairly flat. My thought would be the lack of torque vs the big bikes out of the corners?

So, I return from an afternoon spent ripping around Hopton woods on a rather fetching Peach coloured Kenevo SL comp.

Overall I think it's an incredible machine and it was a blast to ride, I've never ridden an e-mtb other than a quick whip around a car park so it was all very much new to me but I did really enjoy the experience.

I rode it mostly in trail with a stint of turbo for the last 20 minutes or so. I found Eco to be pointless in my scenario, for someone of my size I might as well have switched the motor off, lighter riders might feel some benefit but for me trail was a perfect balance of physical work + motor assist.

It's definitely not a monster on some of the steeper climbs and at times you really need to put some effort in. However what it lacks in climbing grunt I found it made up for on the downhills, point it down through any Rooty or rocky sections and it felt just like my Stumpy, albeit with a bit more squish. I could pop it, unweight the back, move it around easily and generally treat it like a regular bike. I really liked this element.

Two things bothered me, the motor isn't quiet and it could be an annoyance. I'm someone who really likes to listen to the natural sounds in the woods & my tyres on the ground. I found the constant whine of the motor to be a little at-odds with it's surroundings. But I also understand you can't have everything.

The other thing is the motor lag / limiter at around 15mph (there's probably a better name for this). On a relatively flat section of fire road I was whizzing along smiling from ear to ear and it suddenly felt like I'd put the brakes on. I know this isn't exclusive to this bike but it did feel really jarring and it was enough to make me question giving up my pedal bike for a moment.... until I turned back up into the woods in turbo and it all made sense again.

On the whole I think the KSL is a bit of a masterpiece and after my test ride I'm convinced that it's the natural progression for a someone like me on a stumpy evo looking for a medium assisted e-mtb. The motor whine and 15mph motor lag limiter thing are bothersome but I think the pros far outweigh the cons.

For anyone interested I'm 95kg, I did 13km with 500m of climbing - 75% Trail /. 25% Turbo - and I finished my ride with 70% battery remaining.

The motor whine and 15mph motor lag limiter thing are bothersome but I think the pros far outweigh the cons.

The motor that the ksl and levo sl use is a noisy bugger and one reason I went for the trek fuel exe instead ( it's virtually silent), but the 15mph cut out is a legal thing and applies to all ebikes,so they're all the same in that regard

This thread is very dangerous for my wallet and my marriage...

Spesh Enduro owner, little bit more time constrained then I once was so not as bike fit as I'd want. Always been ebike curious, but rode a friends poorly maintained one couple of years back and it felt horrible, the weight of the bike felt really high up and the bike was quite ratty in general. Always liked the look of the KSL since launch, however few months ago got to swing a leg over a levo SL and Whyte E160 when on a group ride. The Levo SL didnt feel good going up as the owner had customised the power outputs down so he could ride with his buddies and was so so going down. The Whyte shocked me with the pace at which it shot up the climb and just how good it actually descended. This thread and that ride on the Whyte have me more curious to swing a leg over a KSL but thankfully cant demo one at the moment!

I will keep reading this thread with interest...

the 15mph cut out is a legal thing and applies to all ebikes,so they’re all the same in that regard

Not all bikes feel the same though when when pedalling through it.

I'd suggest gavinnn needs to demo/hire now a full-fat and one of the mid-fat bikes - I found the full-fat very difficult to pedal through, whereas the Rise and KSL were far easier.

Have you demo'd a full fat eeb OP?

Must admit I'm ebike curious. The Whyte, as above, was great to have a go on. Just trying to work out if the middle weight ones have any point. They don't go as far and the whyte felt on part with a normal bike on the descents.

I'd probably keep the normal bike for days out with mates, but for solo riding I'd just use the ebike in boost i reckon.

Not all bikes feel the same though when when pedalling through it.

This is indeed true. Been riding a motor recently where the only indication you went over 15mph was the small change in noise. It tapers the power in and out at 15mph really well so its very hard to tell.

Two things bothered me, the motor isn’t quiet and it could be an annoyance. I’m someone who really likes to listen to the natural sounds in the woods & my tyres on the ground. I found the constant whine of the motor to be a little at-odds with it’s surroundings. But I also understand you can’t have everything.

The only e-bike I've ridden is an older Levo with the Brose motor, which has a reputation for being one of the quietest options out there. In Eco mode, it's barely noticeable, to the point where most people don't realise that it's an e-bike. Less so in Trail or Turbo, when I find it quite obtrusive and it's also audible to other people on the trail, which feels like an imposition and slightly rdue. I guess it's quite a personal thing and neuroplasticity might mean your brain can eventually filter it out like a fridge noise or similar, but I don't like it. Oddly it's not mentioned often when people talk about ebikes, so I guess most riders simply don't care.