[Closed] Just how gnar should a gravel bike be?

Light carbon 29er hardtail might work just as well

Tyres are the thing. If you live somewhere rocky, get something with 50c/2.0 tyres. Otherwise less. A dropper will allow you to do more tech than you otherwise would, for no real disadvantage in road terms.

It also depends on if you want to feel like a road rider who can do a bit of off-road, or an off-roader who's not too bad on road.

^yep

1. Define desired/expected terrain (type and ratio/percentage/max gnar-limit)
2. ^ Identify tyre-clearance required
3. Pick bike
4. If can’t decide on max gnar-limit then a Bearclaw Beaux Jaxon is the answer 🍻

It also depends on if you want to feel like a road rider who can do a bit of off-road, or an off-roader who’s not too bad on road.

This all day. Don't neglect the bikes on road ability as that's the biggest reason for getting one over a xc or rigid mtb in my opinion.

Totally agree that the tyres are the thing with these bikes. I was surprised at how capable the SB8s at 35mm were. I think if I was considering 50mm tyres, that would put me back into MTB territory. With nothing to really base it on, I'm imagining 40-45mm being typical.

The road ability is a good comment. I kind of think of mountain biking as being a combination of feature trails and linking trails used to minimise road. But on a gravel bike, do the linking trails become feature trails and the quieter roads become the linking trails?

The Knolly Ti Cashe looks interesting, as does the Bearclaw Thunderhawk, but I do wonder if they might be too much bike.

I've got a Tripster on 40c tyres, it does everything my mountain bike does except rooty tight singletrack where a wet root would have you off before you realised what happened. In thick winter mud it's a joy as the thinner tyres cut straight through it rather than it turning into a 3mph slog.

For MTB type stuff a dropper helps, but I took mine off in the end as it was an £80 and started to find the slight side to side movement annoying as it felt like the bike was stepping out when going fast.

The WTB Venture 50c’s I had on mine are surprisingly quick on the road. Not road bike quick of course but much quicker than any mountain bike I’ve had. Tyre pressure obviously makes a big difference too. If I’m expecting more road and light off road I’ll pump them up else leave them softer for grip. Got 2.2’s on the bike now though.

Interesting question raised by the OP. To me, it comes down to if you have an XC mtb or not and what kind of terrain you'll be using the gravel bike on. I joined the gravel/all road club this summer after working from home since the start of lockdown and no longer riding to work. I used to ride to work on a singlespeed road bike, this was frustrating on the longer rides I was then doing from my front door on weekday lunch times and evenings.

As I have an XC mtb (Kona Hei Hei Race DL) I saw no point in getting a 'full gravel' 650B 50-odd mm tyre'd, dropper post 1x gravel bike. The local front door riding from me involves some A roads, lots of B roads, lanes and some bridleways. I ended up getting a Norco Search XR A1 (700C x38 mm tyres and 2x Shimano GRX gearing) which to me, sits towards the 'less gravel' end of the gravel bike scale. Its great on the roads the bridleways on my local rides, though obviously the 38 mm tyres have their limits on rougher stuff.

I did the same XC/gravel ride recently on both the XC mtb and the Norco. It had some road bits, some gravely bits and some definite mtb bits. I had more fun and was faster overall on the XC mtb than the gravel bike. To me, losing out a little on the road bits with the extra weight and tyre drag of the XC mtb but having the capability to fully enjoy the mtb bits was better than the other way round on the Norco, which was great on the road and gravely bits but quite out of its depth on the mtb bits.

I ran a Vagabond on 35s for road commute, but in woods and on tracks/back roads used 2.1 Nanos. In all honesty preferred the 2.1s on most stuff including potholed country lanes. Versatile. But that was a monstercross/ATB and a slow one on tarmac.

As of now have a 531 retro road tourer on 28c and a rigid ‘gravel’-friendly 29er MTB on 2.2” Race Kings. That neing the case, not sure N+1 gravel-bike would suit my current needs but have considered consolidating those 2 bikes into one suoer-versatile gravel/monstercross/tourer if such exists. Although I know I’d miss the retro tourer the most. So it probably wouldn’t happen - if anything the 29er would be switched for a gravel/monstercross.

Above considered, then I’d probably want 50c clearance to cover most bases. In gravel-terms I’m more an ATB bimbler/roughstuff tourer and would typically do 70/40 surfaced/unsurfaced > 50k, also bikepacking.

Again, it depends entirely on your planned terrain and surface mix. If I was a typical road-whippet looking for some occasional gritty fun then I’d probably be looking at a carbon thing such as a Cannondale Topstone with 38c

Just to suggest something different - how about a traditional touring bike ? Or a modern one > some can take fat tyres, all have a massive range of gears and ability to take racks and mudguards. They are more road and smooth track oriented, but people have been going all over the world on them and on very rough rocks since the bike was invented
I see the gravel bike as a development of the tourer. An expedition tourer with 26" mtb wheels can go anywhere.
Theres never ben so much choice, except the shops have sold out.

It really is an interesting question,
Essentially, you have to decide which parts you’re willing to compromise.
Thinner/harder tyres will be faster on road but more sketchy (or extremely exciting, depending on your point of view) off road.
2x11 probably a bit better on road, whereas 1xwhatever probably better off it.
Do you go for roadie levels of lightweight, or mtb levels of versatility/durability?
There’s no right or wrong answer really, one mans meat is another’s poison innit.

Light carbon 29er hardtail might work just as well

I wish I had a quid for every time someone asks about gravel bikes and someone responded with either this or just get a ridged 29er. No matter how light a hardtail 29er is there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride thats split between road and bridal way.

I did a review of a Fustle Causeway GR1 & loved it so much I bought a frameset. Proper mtbers gravel bike, slacker angles, long & designed for a short stem and wider bar. Plenty of tire clearance too. Don't think the mods will allow me to add a link to it though

Interesting question indeed. I have 3 gravel bikes, ranging from a burly Vagabond, with 29 x 2.1s, which is used mainly for adventures and bikepacking, through a Fugio 30, with 650x47s and a dropper, which is just so much fun on mixed terrain, to a CDF30, with 700x35s, Ultegra and 105 roadish setup and a lovely carbon fork.

They all get used a lot and for me, have minimal overlap.

I also have 2 other bikes, both e, a Spesh Levo SL and a Spesh Creo SL.

Unlikely to change any of them soon as all types of my riding are covered, and I can choose the bike to suit my planned ride, and my state of health...

I wish I had a quid for every time someone asks about gravel bikes and someone responded with either this or just get a ridged 29er.

Assuming suitable rims you could put narrow tyres on a rigid 29er. I think most people suggest a 29er is because they don’t see any sense in/don’t like drop-bars of any type.

No matter how light a hardtail 29er is there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride thats split between road and bridal way.

32c fast tyres then? < Purely for sake of argument. I’m in the ‘like drops on a 50/50 bike’ camp. I’d think gearing/geo to be more significant with MTB vs gravel as a tyre-change is usually a comparatively trivial matter given clearance.

I think if I was considering 50mm tyres, that would put me back into MTB territory.

Well there's a bit more to it than tyre size. With an MTB you are likely these days to get slacker geometry, which I think is worse on road. I have 70.5 HA on my MTB but they aren't common any more. Whereas gravel bikes seem to be on the steeper side. This has an effect when riding on road. Steep angles seem somehow 'better' but I cannot quite figure out why.

The other thing that distinguishes gravel bikes and MTBs is gears. You might not be able to fit a big chainring on an MTB, and you might be limited to boosted stuff which might restrict you to MTB groupsets, cassettes and such. You are less likely to be able to fit a front mech. But there are still 'hybrids' even between gravel and MTBs.

there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride

Then fit fast MTB tyres. They are available, you don't have to run Minion DHFs. I'm happy to do 50 miles on mixed road/off road on 2.3s Ralphs, but that's because when I get to the trails they are rough, and occasionally linked up with steep singletrack.

Like a few have said, first ask yourself the question "Is it mainly road, mainly off-rod or 50/50 mix" that you're going to be riding the bike on. Tyre choice follows on from that.

I'm about 50/50 and have found Conti Terra Speeds seem quite good. Though to be honest I haven't ridden many other cross bike tyres so don't have a lot to compare them with.

I've a HT which I use as MTB.

I decided I wanted a tarmac, forest road and estate road/mountain double track bike. I don't need the gnar, that's what my HT is for.

What I did want was comfy, faster on road, able to take a rack, tyres & rims that wouldn't wince at a few ill-timed rocks under tubby me and discs, as I couldn't be faffed with rim brakes any more.

I slowly came around to drop bars after a couple of years riding on them, I'm still not completely sold, but get why getting a bit lower helps in wind.

after a couple of years riding on them, I’m still not completely sold,

I’d definitely be looking at some different drops or even an alt bar after a two year test run and still not convinced. Maybe a loop bar or something like the Koga Denham?

When I changed the Vagabond to a Longitude the first thing I missed were the drop bars/multiple hand positions. Since buying a touring bike I still miss the drops on the Vagabond, they were just particularly comfortable. I plan to check out the geo on those Genesis bars and fit similar on the tourer (which currently has some 410mm Sakae rando bars).

Also have a Geoff loop bar on the 29er when bikepacking, which gives a small pseudo-tuck position, but they are hefty and wide.

My mate has got an All City gravel bike with 1x, pretty wide flared drop bars and some reasonably nobbly tyres - nothing stupid though and perfectly fine on the road.

I don't think he's anywhere near where he would be on his road bike in terms of road pace but not a million miles away and I was very impressed with what he could ride on a recent trip to the peak District.
There were some sections that were a bit too techy, but not many.

But on a gravel bike, do the linking trails become feature trails and the quieter roads become the linking trails?

That's how it is for my pals and I, we use quiet back roads to link up bridleway/canal/fields/light off road/etc. If the ride is more off and a little naughty the MTB comes out.

Only you will know!

I built mine with an eye on fast and light but also longer distances (relatively high bars and a suspension seatpost to look after my back).

I plot all my routes with the goal of 100% gravellable tracks, e.g. nothing gnarly steep or ridiculously rocky or slow going. I want to ride like I'm on a road bike but with the variety of surfaces and scenery that gravel riding offers.

Of course, routes in Scotland never play ball, so I've never yet ended up with a long day out that hasn't featured a sort of 45/45/10% split of tarmac, gravel and muddy/rocky/steep bits.

The good thing is, you can happily put up with a compromised bike on those bits as you know you'll make good progress on the rest of the route, they become a sort of 'crux' that makes a route work, e.g. the singletrack at the top of the Gaick Pass, the Glen Tilt gorge singletrack, the Loch Builg singletrack etc.

Gaick

Tilt

If you built the bike for those sections then the remaining 90% of the ride would be compromised instead!

On a big trip recently I did start to pine for a set of suspension forks, the last hour or so was just a plummet down Glen Tilt and should have been a blast on my bike as it is, but after 4 days my wrists were starting to protest so instead of a long scenic downhill time trial it sort of became a bit of wince and then pootle. Will be investing in a suspension stem at least but starting to see the sense of e.g. a Salsa Cutthroat or something.

It was my Trek Superfly 29er that got me into gravel, but to use that I would miss the position of the drop bars, the smoothness of the 2x drivetrain, possibly the (relative) aero and the nimble handling of the CX frameset, I'm not sure if it would be as fun tucking down and sticking the knee out as you try to hold the inside line on a fast fireroad bend if you were on a longer slacker MTB frame.

 I want to ride like I’m on a road bike but with the variety of surfaces and scenery that gravel riding offers.

This is pretty much exactly where im at. Got a Brother Kepler which used to just be my commuter now with lockdown its been changed into a gravel bike doing rides from my house. The idea of doing road fills me with dread cycle to my lbs today and got cut up twice and close passed once. I don't know how roadies do 100 odd miles on a road and enjoy it.

I don’t know how roadies do 100 odd miles on a road and enjoy it.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

If you built the bike for those sections then the remaining 90% of the ride would be compromised instead!

Yeah but for me it's a 5% compromise on two thirds of the mileage vs a 50% compromise on one third of it.

It's all about preference. I love riding my big tyres all over the place, and my riding position, stretched out with narrow high-sweep bars is great even on road. The only slight downer is the 1x11 drivetrain, which I could totally fix with 2x. But I'm saving up for 1x12 which should remove that issue. But I recognise that's just my preference. 37c tyres on my local trails *for me* would not work well.

I like speed and I like working hard, and whilst I'd be a bit faster on road I'd be much much slower on the trails and I wouldn't have the ability to ride at the level of physical exertion I want. I'd have to take too much care and end up having to curtail my exertion.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

dude, I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years im a pretty confident cyclists, But cars plus the general state of our roads I don't get why anyone would do it.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

dude, I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years im a pretty confident cyclist

That’ll do it. I dislike roads over a certain size and near a certain population. Used to commute around Birmingham and although can do it I prefer not to unless on cyclepaths and backstreets. Feel fortunate that from a rural town I can ride directly on to rural lanes that spread out 60-100+ miles in most directions. 30c tyres will deal with most of them. You have to choose your routes but it’s normally possible to avoid busy A and B roads and/or city-traffic. I see road cyclists on main roads and just wince. Was nearly wiped out (in our car) two days ago from a head-on Disco that had just overtaken a road cyclists on the approaching bend. I saw the cyclists before I saw him so luckily slowed ‘just in case’ some ****er was overtaking on the bend. He was. Still a near miss. It’s more regular theses days.

I have been trying to figure this out for a long time. A Cdf vs fugio vs vagabond for instance. The fugio got mixed reviews but I think largely down to the wheels/tyres. I saw the Cotic Escapade described as road plus whereas the fugio was mtb minus. Other than the oddly shaped chainstay the biggest difference was one was on 650 x 50 and the other 700 x 40 ish. The headtube on the fugio is a bit slacker maybe.
Once you get away from the lower stack roadie geo, towards the higher stack that is increasingly popular (the surly cross check has gone to a higher stack because commuters were putting on a lot of spacers to get more upright for riding in traffic) seems like the biggest differences are frame material, wheel/ tyre size and flared bars.

Given that I've gradually been increasing the tyre size on my road bike to make it more useful and durable (I'd go bigger but I'm maxed out) I don't know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

I don’t know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

This is so true. For years I ran 25s on an ali single speed. the bike was rapid but if i didn't see a pot hole or something in the road i felt like i was gonna snap my collar bone. Im so over racing through town now I run 38s and just take it really relaxed.

I had a cotic escapade with 700 x 40 nanos. It was a great do it all Bike but the tyre size was maxed out. I enjoyed the gravel bike / Do it all concept so much I fancied a new nice bike after 5 yrs on the cotic. I had test ridden and then bought a Bombtrack hook extc which runs 650b 50mm wtb ventures. It’s great. It’s as quick as the cotic on gravel and comfier. It’s a hoot to ride and the extra volume means going faster on the rougher bits. I don’t think I’d want wider tyres than those. I’m down south and have miles of farm tracks and gravel forest roads in west hants and east dorset linked by little back lanes and bridleways. Perfect territory for a gravel bike.

For years I ran 25s o

I have a couple of road bikes from the late 80s/early 90s - for years I ran 20s on them cos that's what they came with. Then I moved up to 23. Now one is on 25 because that's the biggest that will fit. The other is on 28s. Any difference in speed is entirely down to the engine.

Cdf vs fugio vs vagabond for instance.

As I said earlier in the thread I have all 3 of these and use them all. For me, the Vagabond is a 29er HT MTB with drops. A workhorse for adventures a yet good fun on trails that are not too techy. The CDF is used for winter road, road touring and bigger rides that involve mix of road, fireroad and easy trails. The Fugio can do a bit of everything but for me is at its best unladen and on forest path and singletrack adventures, which are often joined up by road sections.

If I look at all 3, on the 5 mile back road sections from home to local windfarm, the vagabond is maybe 2mph slower than the CDF and then on a 20 mile gravel spin round the turbines, it is 2mph faster ...

Overall the Fugio, on same run, is faster and the most fun.

I don’t know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

28 are the sweetspot for me, my gravel bike has 32mm slicks on its road wheels my current ebay special roadie has 25mm on, its a fun fast ride, as long as you look where you are going and "ride light" through rough sections its fine..

To the op, try looking at it from another angle, rather than try and buy a bike to fit your riding, buy uy a bike you want and find out what works for it. If your current riding suits a mtb and you buy a bike to suit it, you'll get a mtb! The bike could evolve your riding to suit it...bottom line is how gnar is up to you. My diverge is quite roadie but also surprisingly capable when asked.

Lots of great advice above and I think that the 'gravel' type bike now has nearly as many niche's as mountain bikes (apparently my ritchey logic road bike was designed to be able to ride gravel roads in America and that can only take 28mm tyres!).

My advice - probably mentioned a few times above - is buy a bike that best suits the terrain that you mostly plan to ride on it.

I was in a similar position earlier this year, I had a few different mountain and road bikes plus a Croix de fer. But fancied something that was as capable as the Croix de fer but lighter and faster and more fun.

I ride mostly from my front door and have lots of easy trails and small rough roads so don't need tyres any bigger that 40mm. I also fancied trying a few cross races as my kids also race cross so I built a cross bike up with 38mm treaded tyres. I love it! It's so fast and fun off-road but still decently quick on road so can do a sizable loop in a couple of hours. It does get out of its depth pretty quickly on more techy trails though but I just avoid those bits. I recently lent my cross bike to a pal for a trip up near Braemar, he also has a Croix de fer, he was really impressed with my bike and is now looking to buy something similar.

Maybe try a few different bikes out to see what you fancy?

@p7eaven that Bearclaw Beaux Jaxon looks spot on for UK conditions.

When people are talking about clearance for 50mm tyres, are they talking 700c, or 650b? I'd imagined this bike being 700c but that's something else I'm starting to question.

I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride it techy trails, but is that because I ride mountain bikes suited to that? I'm thinking that a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

It can do, but there's a world of difference between my rigid 29er and my 650x47 gravel bike off-road on anything remotely technical or steep. One is a rewarding, fun challenge. The other is a sketchy handful that is out of it's depth in the wrong element and just feels fairly pointless very quickly.

Just how “gnar” should a gravel bike be?

How 'gnar' can you ride on the drops with your weight that far forward? If the answer is not much / enough, a 29er is the answer. If the gravel bike is changed enough to make it ok in the techy stuff it'll not be much good on road/gravel and the drops will still be a disadvantage to off-road riding compared to an MTB bar / brake lever set up.

Gravel bike didn’t work for me. Found it compromised too much off road(maybe my fault) found a fully rigid 29’r way more capable and fun.

For me and the gravel and easy off road I ride not very gnar at all. I ride a 74 degree heard angle bike with 25c tyres and am very happy on it and ride everywhere I rode an MTB when I had one many years ago.

I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride is techy trails,

Lightweight XC bike on techy trails?

I’m thinking that a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

It can, but as Jameso says the novelty wears off quickly on technical trails.

kerley:

with 25c tyres and am very happy on it and ride everywhere I rode an MTB when I had one many years ago.

Mileages/terrain vary. OTOH, I have 28c tyres on the tourer and find that anything with ruts and potholes etc has me either slowing right down or trying to micro-hop everything. It’s a ‘different’ type of riding and not really like the ATB I had many years ago (1.75”/45c)

I was chatting to a guy yesterday and he was talking about recently trying gravel riding and expressed how technically difficult he found it compared to his usual road cycling. He still enjoyed it and now wants to improve his off-roading skills and asked about mountain bikes.

Seems we may have a full circle going on, roadies coming to mountain biking and mountain bikers going to road cycling, which is all good.

It would be interesting to have the same question as the OP's but on a road biased cycling forum, wonder how the responses would differ from here.

When people are talking about clearance for 50mm tyres, are they talking 700c, or 650b?

On my bike at least (Kona Sutra LTD), I’m running 700c x 50c, though as per an earlier reply, have put some 29 x 2.25’s on it to see how it goes.

jameso

If the gravel bike is changed enough to make it ok in the techy stuff it’ll not be much good on road/gravel and the drops will still be a disadvantage to off-road riding compared to an MTB bar / brake lever set up.

This.

My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.

If I want to go mountain biking, I'll take my mountain bike.

I wonder if there's something about many folk riding FS and often 'big' and very capable enduro FS - and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?

I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years

I'm not criticising your riding skills, just explaining how we do it. I have done a fair bit of London riding and I feel safer there than on many country roads. IMO safety isn't a question of traffic volume, it's about traffic speeds, road width and visibility.

If I want to go mountain biking, I’ll take my mountain bike.

But what if you want to go mountain biking and there's a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?

^^^^ I’d take my Vagabond..

But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?

That was 1990, before bikes were transported to locations via a motor-vehicle 😉

*edit (agrees with iainc, but plans that 15 miles of road instead to be 20-30 miles of minor roads and byways)

Or you just choose a bike and get on with it. To me at least, riding an MTB 15 miles on the road is fine, riding a track bike off road is fine. As long as I am riding I leave the overthinking, bike swapping, multiple bikes for slightly different uses to others and I just enjoy the actual riding.

I can see that. But also, for some of us, the thinking, questioning and planning the build is part of the fun.

However, like you say, once I'm out on it, it doesn't matter which bike it is if I'm having fun.

My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.

This is it I think - variety and accessibility of routes. I've found it interesting taking out my 29er with lighter XC-tread 2.2 tyres and a decent range of gears (vs it's normal EXO 2.4s and limited range old-school 1x off-road gearing) and riding the same areas I ride my relatively off-road capable 650B gravel bike. On most of these rides I just ride from the door, no pre-planned route. I find I stay off-road longer and go faster while off-road on the 29er, unsuprisingly. The interesting bit was realising that my 650B wasn't really the adventure bike many see them as - I tended to revert back to lanes and easy tracks for a break whereas on the 29er I was happy on lanes or steep rooty stuff with small drops etc so would just take any route that looked worth a try.
I've been to-froing between an MTB and a 'gravel' bike for almost 15 years now but what's changed in recent years is that my MTB has got more distance-orientated while my gravel bike has gained fatter tyres and more flared bars. That brings them closer together in some respects but in reality they're both better at what I want from them. On many rides the differences are more in my riding attitude/style than terrain.

Agree with the recent consensus(?) - if you have to ask the question then the answer is an XC hardtail. Gravel on 'true' gravel is fine, but if your goal is gnar fun then flat bars are infinitely more fun and just better than curly.

And as for the question of getting to the trails, I'd always felt that my Racing Ralphs rolled as well, if not better than, my 40c Nanos, which seems to be backed up by https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews and https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews - the best XC tyres measure quicker than gravel tyres, in fact gravel tyres are surprisingly slow.

That leaves bars - well I ended up in a trail-sparse area during lockdown so got some https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMKB/on-one-mickey-handlebar which gave me some extra bar positions. I roll along at 18-20mph on the flat where I roll at 20-22 on a road bike. Oh, and I put a 38T on the front with an 11s 11-42 on the back which was fine for me and is quite a gravelly range really.

I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride it techy trails, but is that because I ride mountain bikes suited to that?

Like I said buy a gravel bike and see where it takes you rather than many on here who buy a gravel bike and then sell it and moan because it isnt good on mtb trails. The type you buy can be determined by other bikes you have, if you had say a roadie and a gnar full sus, get a gravel bike at the more xc mtb end of spectrum, if you have an xc mtb but no road bike get one at the roadish end of spectrum. Diversify your bikes and let the riding follow.

Matt

This.

My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.

If I want to go mountain biking, I’ll take my mountain bike.

I wonder if there’s something about many folk riding FS and often ‘big’ and very capable enduro FS – and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?

Molgrips

But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?

MTB ... because of what you want to ride.

I had the same decision this week twice and I could have taken my road/hybrid thing that's on the Turbo... (technically I was dropping off and picking up the car buy near Swinley and the weather was nice and 80% "gravel" / 20% road split) .. obviously the option existed for 100% road which is probably 5 miles less.

I could easily ride Swinley on the "hyb-grav-3x8" thing ... especially in the dry but don't really think I'd enjoy it so much. (TBH you could probably ride it on a TT Tri bike and I've ridden it on the hybrid thing before (loaning a MTB to my bro) but it gets old fast)

Same the other way ... I can ride to Surrey Hills numerous ways from the door mainly way off road 25 miles or on road 20 miles. I've never really considered the road to Surrey Hills it seems so pointless like I'd get there, get a coffee and sit near some people wearing lycra and state longingly at the MTB's before turning round and coming home.

My Komoot would probably get called "road ride to Peaslake and back" not "Surrey Hills day out" and shallow as that might sound it would be an honest title just leaving out the word "boring" that if shared publicly could be substituted with "training".

This is because for me I'm riding Surrey Hills and getting there is incidental. If I wanted a socially distanced coffee I can ride 2 miles to a garden centre 95% off road or another 1/2m 95% off road.

edit: Matt

I wonder if there’s something about many folk riding FS and often ‘big’ and very capable enduro FS – and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?

Partly ... I'll take my 100mm HT down most stuff albeit much slower and maybe hitting some bypasses on bigger drops.

Now I'm in edit... I guess there is the GMBN Blake Gravel episode at Windhill.
Blake (quite understandably IMHO) refuses a small drop into a berm (Feed em to the Lions) that is trivial even on a XC or DJ. It's just a small drop... something I've done on my kids 24" with 100mm (locked) and *I* can't even imagine doing it on a gravel... but more significant is Blake "ask me if I can ride this down that I don't mind getting hurt" Samson straight up declined.

But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?

This makes me realise how spoiled I am in variety and accessibility of trails from my door.

Ergo in your position, move house. 😉

I’ve been to-froing between an MTB and a ‘gravel’ bike for almost 15 years now

I know where you are coming from with this. Ive basically been doing the same the last 5/6, in fact I am sort of coming to the conclusion that the bike that offers the best overall compromise for the majority of my milage might actually be my most outdated MTB (geometry wise)

Modern MTBs are ace, but to get the same seat of pants thrill as I used to, I now go downhills much faster than I did, but that often seems pretty irresponsible where so many of my routes are shared with walkers/horse riders.

Ergo in your position, move house.

First one to Matt's gets the spare room.

I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size? The difference in geo between the 3 bikes he has is chuff all, except maybe stand over.

It seems like 'gravel bike' is also gradually sliding into the mtb category. I can't remember the last time I saw gravel on a techie singletrack. I've always thought of gravel bikes as traversing rough surfaces fairly quickly for a longish time, in comfort, hence the drop bars..

If you want something singletrack capable with rocks and roots and drops, surely you need to look at flatbars?

The bike that most has my attention currently is the Knolly Cache is a 56. Other than being about 30mm longer, the numbers are not too different from my old Decade Tripster. That has a 100mm stem and the Knolly recommend around 60~70mm so it all sort of works out.

My Tripster has in the past, had panniers fitted and used to commute 10 miles each way in and out of Nottingham up and down the A610.

28mm Schwalbe One tubeless tyres used for training for and completing the Nottingham Outlaw ultra triathlon.

Riding the old blue book Great longstone loop with friends who were on a mix of hardtails and full sus bikes.

That sounds like it might actually be versatile enough.

I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size?

Pretty much, I'd say. And weight distribution / riding position.

Sorry jameson, didn't mean to imply you were not equally as qualified to comment (possibly more so,) han ianc - it's just he has the 3 bikes

On riding position, you'd probably know better than me but it is my impression that drop bar frames are all getting slightly shorter, with a bit more stack and as a result a slightly more slopog top tube because everyone is moving away from the arse up head down stretched out style of old school road bikes.
Partly comfort, partly improved ridability, partly different uses (gravel etc)
So even that is moving toward a more homogeneous place.

If you want something singletrack capable with rocks and roots and drops, surely you need to look at flatbarshardtail

Or flatbars and hardtail!

(Tbh I never think of flatbars as anything other than hardtail, everything else is FS. *ducks*)

The bike that most has my attention currently is the Knolly Cache is a 56. Other than being about 30mm longer, the numbers are not too different from my old Decade Tripster. That has a 100mm stem and the Knolly recommend around 60~70mm so it all sort of works out.

That Knolly is well nice! Flat bars on a gravel bike are where its at for me. I run some 780s on my brother with 110 stem as I hate drop bars. With spesh offering their Diverge with flatbars I think its gonna be more common.

On riding position, you’d probably know better than me but it is my impression that drop bar frames are all getting slightly shorter, with a bit more stack and as a result a slightly more slopog top tube because everyone is moving away from the arse up head down stretched out style of old school road bikes.

This is true, but it's more a reflection on the weekend warrior style of rider who gets on a drop bar bike and feels uncomfy because he/she isn't used to it. The same thing happened with road bikes, especially from the US, when people got the cycling thing and then struggled to be comfy.

The problem is that raising the front end of a drop bar bike messes with the geometry and weight distribution, and makes them less capable.

Watch cyclocross, watch people who can ride drop bars...

I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size? The difference in geo between the 3 bikes he has is chuff all, except maybe stand over.

It is largely tyre size, though the vagabond has a much higher front end that the Fugio and the CDF. Vagabond feels like a MTB more than a road bike whereas the other 2 are much more of a road feel.

Run a dropper on my Gravel bike, great for when the terrain gets a bit steep or a bit more technical than you were expecting

Best thing about a gravel bike is you can just go for a road ride, see a path/track and just see where it goes, i can get down most trails albeit a bit slower and more cautiously than i would on a mtb

I found my XC bike was a real compromise, off road it was great, did what it was designed to do unless it got very rooty/bumpy (im used to a 160mm travel e-mtb that smashes through everything)

On road the XC bike was slow and because i was running low pressures for when off road it you could feel the tyres flexing around when putting the power down on the road, with my nearest off road route being 5-10 miles away this was a real chore and the reason i sold it and kept the gravel bike

Glad I'm not the only one going through this.

I realised yesterday quite what a lucky boy I am in terms of local estate/forest roads that I could ride from home or with a shortish drive. But.......gear range will need to be good as I used the whole of my old school 2X10 mtbs range off road and some of it is rough enough that something with too slim/low volume a tyre would be a handful with trashed rims very soon. Also, wet gritty estate roads are a destroyer of worlds drivetrains.

The old first gen Niner Sir9 with a Rohloff and Koga Denham bar might just be answer if run with relatively road friendly rubber for routes that are mostly off road if I ever finish building the bloody thing back together. Then add a proper gravel bike for 50/50 off & on road routes at a later date when finances allow.

The best advice I got was buy a bike that just does what I want, and don't try to make it into something else.

So I bought a Planet X Full Monty. Alloy frame, carbon fork, drops, discs, 1x11 and 36c tyres for £800. Main theory was if I didn't like it, I'd sell it and only lose a few hundred quid.

It is perfect for lanes, farm tracks, estate roads, fireroads and less-techy singletrack - and if need-be, quite happy on tarmac. It does nothing perfectly, but is capable of pretty much anything.

I also did the Cairngorm loop on it as per 13thfloormonk, and was a better bike choice than my pal on a HT MTB.

Now 'upgraded' to 43C tyres, flared drops and a carbon post.

I've done a couple of 100k 'gravel' rides but mainly it kept me sane during lockdown going out every lunch (luckily I live in the country just off the Tweed Valley) for lots of 1-2 hour local rides (usually +40% offroad).

Oh, and gearing is 42 11-42 - more than enough to get up any hill (where there's traction), just a bit slow top end for tarmac.

The best advice I got was buy a bike that just does what I want, and don’t try to make it into something else.

^ this

It's a 15-25 mile ride to the trails but the key for me is I'm riding to the trails.
Getting there is just a bit of much needed fitness and a means to an end.

Sorry jameson, didn’t mean to imply you were not equally as qualified to comment (possibly more so,) han ianc – it’s just he has the 3 bikes

Ha, no not taken that way at all - I was just butting in.

Riding is riding, the more genres the better imo.

The bike should be a gnar are the buyer wants it to be.

Save your money and stick a 24T or 26T granny ring on the Tripster?

I think buying a "bit of a keeper" in a bike genre that you are not sure what you want from, is a high risk bit of purchasing, and you may be better off experimenting with what you have first to establish what it is you want the bike to do for you.

Best thing about a gravel bike is you can just go for a road ride, see a path/track and just see where it goes, i can get down most trails albeit a bit slower and more cautiously than i would on a mtb

This is what I enjoy. My gravel bike is listed more as an all road bike. But the larger volume tyres make gravel sections/off road more than possible.

As quoted, sometimes you get in slightly deeper than intended, at least I have, but it was rewarding enough.