You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Prime RR 38mm carbon. Unused, just over half of what seems to be the going rate for new ones. Am I an idiot for buying entry level deep carbon wheels? Pretty hefty at 1750g on the scales but my current wheels are 2100g so it should be an improvement.
It's rim weight that's the important bit on a road bike - rotating weight.
I've had Vel 50mm wheels for the last year or so, Sigmas 'own brand' budget offering. I've been very happy with them. Not sure if they were much lighter than the DT Swiss Alu wheels they replaced but they look great, and if it looks fast it feels fast.
Am I an idiot for buying entry level deep carbon wheels?
No, that's a very acceptable weight considering the rim depth & price.
I have the posher Prime 28mm wheels and they are awesome. Yours might be just as quick with the extra depth offsetting the extra 250g or whatever.
They will look good Mols,nice depth.
I am not a fan of the bigger wind catchers.
I had a set of Prime wheels on a previous road bike, they were excellent. Light weight, stayed completely true, no hassle at all with tubeless. Even at RRP, they were good value.
According to reviews despite being a generic pattern they copy modern profiles so they shouldn't be to bad in crosswinds.
I wonder if I need to increase tyre pressures for rough roads? How much of a risk?
TBH my bike (Cube Attain 105/Ultegra) is a solid budget carbon job so these are probably appropriate 🙂
1750g including rim tapes? Discs? Fantastic if so, fine if not.
I wonder if I need to increase tyre pressures for rough roads? How much of a risk?
That's surely more dependent on what tyre width you're running and if they're tubeless or not?
Including rim tape and lockring, no discs, valves or axles though.
I'm on 28c tubeless. They do quite well. Question is are the carbon rims more fragile, in reality?
If I'm looking at the correct wheel model, their internal rim width is 19mm, which iirc is the same as the Fulcrums that came with my 2016 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc. In which case I suspect you use similar tyre pressures.
On the flip side, my new unused VEL 50 RLs are a bit wider at 20.3mm (must admit I thought they were 22mm inner and 28mm outer), I suspect I could use slightly lower pressure because the tyre won't be so forced to adopt a teardrop shape, that will cause weirdness at lower pressures when cornering.
Yeah they should be the same width as the ones I have. I thought that was wide, but 20.3mm is huge.
I’m on 28c tubeless. They do quite well. Question is are the carbon rims more fragile, in reality?
No.
FWIW, I'm running about 55 psi on my 28c tubeless tyres. I did (accidentally) pump then up harder than that when they were new and the sealant was still settling in, they felt really harsh to ride!
It's also a weird sensation coming from narrow tubed tyres at the road bike standard of 100+ psi and only inflating to half that, it takes a bit of getting used to!
Question is are the carbon rims more fragile, in reality?
I think ultimately if you impact something that's going to write off a carbon rim it will probably have written off an alu rim. The carbon rim might actually do better.
But as with all these things 'it depends'.
1750g for a decent set of deepish section wheels is pretty respecatble IMO, but again 'it depends' - wheels are not all about weight - stiffness, aero etc... are equally if not more important in different scenarios on any given ride. Get them fitted, admire them and ride them. I bet they look pretty nice on that bike.
According to reviews despite being a generic pattern they copy modern profiles so they shouldn’t be to bad in crosswinds.
You get used to it very quickly anyway, the first few rides might be a bit scary when you get a sudden tug, but very soon it just becomes normal and you pretty much forget about it. I ride all year round on deep-ish section (40mm in winter and deeper in summer).
The only time I have to think about the wind is if I'm riding along and want to take on / off a gilet or jacket etc, then I do have to think about the hedgerows and prevailing wind direction etc.
In the UK the prevailing wind direction is south westerly.
What it is on any particular day could be anything.
Yes, I'm a sailor.
On my deep dish Corima wheels the only time I've had a scare is when riding past a gap in the hedge as my hands were in the process of switching from hoods to tops. But there again, as a windsurfer, I'm used to dealing with sudden gusts from the side.
1750g sounds really rather heavy to me - but my baseline is these 50mm deep wheels at 1360g that I got from Ali Express for less than £400. There are lots of other wheelsets around at the moment less than 1400g, but I guess Prime is perhaps the only proper UK brand at this sort of price point. Still, 3-400g is a massive difference, especially as I expect a good proportion of that is in the rim.
I tend to prioritise weight a bit more than some, as all my rides are hilly and I'm not very heavy. According to plenty of folk on here I ought to have crashed and burned several times by now for riding around on Ali Express gear...
From this article, 1.8kg 'cost' 1m54s up Alpe D'Huez over saving that weight off the bike overall.
https://www.training4cyclists.com/how-much-time-does-extra-weight-cost-on-alpe-dhuez/
Unless you are at fighting race weight on a sub 8kg bike already don't worry about the weight and ride what you like the look of best for the money you have.
I love my Prime black edition 1450g-ish 50mm wheelset but it all honesty it's made no measurable difference on my very average performance over the 1650g shallow wheels I had before. The bike looks awesome though so I ride it more.
Yeah that's basically what I am doing. I fancied better wheels but had no plans to get any until I got shown some super light fancy 40mm Newmen ones on FB marketplace for £400 but the guy didn't respond. So I searched to see if I could see them listed elsewhere and these came up on eBay from a local seller.
I know performance doesn't matter - this is not an especially fast bike to begin with nor am I an especially fast rider - but road bikes light bikes do feel nice, that is undeniable. And I have to admit it does look quite good!
[img] 
[/img]
The much derided part-white bar tape has held up really well by the way - just have to remember to wash it when I clean the bike and it comes up nicely. I've had a quick spin and the difference in weight is dramatic. Pushing the pedals up the hill at my house and it surges forwards like someone's kicking it from behind. Also they feel smoother somehow, perhaps the larger lighter structure of the rim is absorbing some buzz, I don't know. Can't wait to ride it properly. Smooth and light is a lovely sensation.
Only issue was that the spare valves I had are only *just* long enough. When the valve cap is screwed on it basically touches the plastic locknut thing. Not sure if it'll be a problem but my track pump seems to fit on alright so dunno.
I fancy some carbon bars, and maybe some higher end pedals and then I reckon it'll be complete.
Managed an hour's spin without falling off on the icy slush all over the roads. On steep hills I'm still a fat knacker and tired from Zwifting so hard to tell any improvement there. I couldn't get up to speed so hard to judge anything there plus I'm hardly aero myself in winter gear. But the ride quality is far better, I'm really quite surprised. I expected them to be harsher but no, they are beautiful to ride on. That alone is worth the price, for me. I have not ridden any other carbon wheels to compare to though. Also, no whooshy carbon wheel noise which is a bit of a relief.
Looks great!
Does look good. Carbon wheels do improve most things 🙂
You’ll have to get bars to match the seat post. I wouldn’t go down the aero bar route, but personal choice. Probably something like this….
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/6555/2017-s-works-shallow-bend-carbon-handlebar/
I’ve got two pairs of wheels at that depth, one is approx 1650 grams the other approx 1300 grams…also about a £1000 difference. No discernible difference speed wise between the two.
The more expensive wheels do look the dogs danglies though. I always think around the 40mm mark looks best on non aero frames, mine are on my Emonda. I also have 60mm and these are undoubtedly faster, but just don’t look as good.
Expensive wheels
Cheaper wheels
Non aero frame with 60mm
Nobody will notice the wheels with that saddle bag on there anyway 😉
Nobody will notice the wheels with that saddle bag on there anyway
I know... There's even a pump on there too. But I really hate having tools etc in the back pockets!
So the seller of the original wheels got back to me. He's selling these for £400:
My mate has offered to buy the Prime wheels off me. Hmm.... I'm in two minds. Chuffed to bits with the wheels I have so from that point of view I should just leave it, but this is another 400g weight saving, assuming that's correct.... Slight complication is that the Newmen would require a Shimano freehub to be purchased.
Who takes a pump on a road bike ride? C02 canisters for the win.
I’d defo swap the wheels. Don’t expect any speed differences mind. But the lighter wheels will feel nicer.
I’d also budget for some new thru axles….
https://www.extralite.com/Products/Black%20Lock.htm
Who takes a pump on a road bike ride?
People who use tubeless tyres and might need to pump up a non-sealing puncture a couple of times?
Each to their own. Dynaplug and C02 works for me. I take two canisters so probably a similar weight to a mini pump. I just don’t like having anything on my frame.
Only had to use the Dynaplug once, C02 top up and was away riding within about a minute. I ride on the road quite a lot, so this system works for me.
I do use a saddlebag/tool roll as well as also dislike my pockets stuffed.
I’d also do bars and stem before you do pedals. I’m on Look Keo Carbon Ti Ceramic pedals, when you add up the weight of the pedal and cleat it’s very competitive weight wise. About 260 grams for the full system.
I kind of need pedals anyway. The ones on it wore out and I robbed the cheap ones off my track bike.
I am a little hesitant to cover this bike with bling as it's not that sort of bike and I'm not thar sort of rider; and it's a slippery slope.
Yeah you’re right, a very slippery slope. My cheaper wheels, the Bontrager 38mm carbon ones are on my Planet X Tempest and I’ve just fitted zipp carbon seat post, bars and stem. But that’s the end of the spend… maybe a new lighter saddle…..and lighter pedals as it’s just running stock Shimano I robbed of another bike…..but after that, no more……
I need a trail bike much more than I need a lighter road bike!
Who takes a pump on a road bike ride? C02 canisters for the win.
Aren't they a bit 'one hit'? i.e. if you cock it up then you're only left with one? At least a pump never runs out etc. etc.
I am curious actually as I hate using my mini-pump, if I thought I could attach a canister and instantly inflate to 80psi I would be tempted...
My mini pump was from Evans and is fantastic. Best pump I've had by miles. They were a badged pattern unit though of course and I don't think they do them any more.
It’s rim weight that’s the important bit on a road bike – rotating weight.
Much less important than aero, for most use cases.
About to buy these from Sigma, £465 with additional discount and weight seems respectable at 1550g for the price, plus I can just pop over yo the shop if I have a problem.
Anyone have any experience of them?
I ditched my mini pump in about 2016. Never needed it roadside. My C02 has a release valve so I can gauge how much goes in. It’s not just a case of one single blast. And I’ve never cocked it up and I’m a hamfisted idiot!
As I mentioned above, I do take two with me. If a top up doesn’t work, Dynaplug and top up. If that doesn’t work then tube in and new canister.
(I do take a mini pump with my tubeless gravel bike, plus the dynaplugs, spare tube and a single C02) But road wise I don’t see the need. Just to add some context, I don’t have full mobility in one of my arms. Using a mini pump absolutely wrecks me!
@Nasher, depends what you want from the wheels. If you look at my Emonda pictures above, I have two pairs of 38mm wheels. There is pretty much negligible Aero benefit on this depth rim, 1600 grams is decent but not spectacular, unless you’re coming from heavy stock wheels. But generally wheels in this range are a nice to look at while giving some very small marginal gains. If you’re after the aero benefits you probably need to be looking in excess of 50mm. Then you have the weight/aero/price trade of to balance. If they’re affordable, you like the look of them and think they’ll look cool on your frame, go for it. But don’t think you’ll see too much difference speed wise. Hills are still going to be hard and you won’t have a big aero benefit on the flat. I know manufacturers say 38mm offer aero benefit, but when you look deeper into the stats, it’s something like 40 seconds up a 35 minute climb or TT if doing over 300 watts (i made the stats up, but it really is marginal)
But road wise I don’t see the need.
Yet.. but yea pumping isn't always easy.
There is pretty much negligible Aero benefit on this depth rim
I have read that 30mm is enough to give significant benefits over box section rims (most typical alloy rims are not actually box section any more though) which is why most manufacturers offer something in 30-40mm. 50mm or more starts to risk some downsides and is in my view a racing thing.
"Tate has run the numbers. Comparing a Parcours Grimpeur 40mm wheelset with a popular box section (standard, alloy non optimised rim), he discovered a 22.9W saving. Moving to the Chrono 77mm front/86mm rear pair, the saving was 29.7W - that's a 6.7W difference."
So your big saving comes at 40mm there, and going to a really big set only saved a small amount extra.
@w00dster they are for a 2018 spesh roubaix so not looking for super quick, but the current wheels weigh about 1900g... and I run 28mm tyres.
So not sure if saving 300g on a bike like this is worth it..
So not sure if saving 300g on a bike like this is worth it..
Well as per the thread I just saved 400g and the difference was major; and the ride quality is superb so even trundling along it feels like a much nicer bike and put a big smile on my face.
Who takes a pump on a road bike ride?
Pretty much everyone I ride with (tubeless or otherwise).
I don’t have full mobility in one of my arms. Using a mini pump absolutely wrecks me!
We have a para-olympian rider in our Wednesday ride group - he only has one arm which works. He carries a battery powered pump with him.
The pump scenario is when you get a puncture that won't quite seal, and pops open occasionally. Then you need to keep adding air. This happened to me once; when I remembered the existence of anchovies and the fact that I had some in the aforementioned saddlebag, the problem went away but I can imagine that anchovies or dynaplugs might still fail, and toping up every 5 miles to get home is still preferable to putting in a tube I reckon.
So what do you all reckon? Go for the nicer wheels and sell mine on to my mate? It'll cost me about £170 over what I've already spent, to save about 390g if the published weight of 1360g to be believed. That's a pretty big saving on wheels.
About to buy these from Sigma, £465 with additional discount and weight seems respectable at 1550g for the price, plus I can just pop over yo the shop if I have a problem.
Anyone have any experience of them?
I've had the 50s for over a year now. Been very pleased with them, have been simple to set up tubeless and had zero issues since. Be aware the freehub is loud (but satisfying). They are also all black which suits me as I'm not a fan of big rim decals.
If someone was using Co2 cannisters on a group ride round here they'd - mobility issues being a very good exception - rightly get looked askance at.
Fair enough if you're in a triathlon or race long enough to make mending a puncture worthwhile, but otherwise - what a waste.
Just had a thought - the Newmen wheels, they are a bit scratched - how did they get scratched? In a crash? I'm leaning towards sticking with what I already have because they were obviously brand new so I can have more confidence.
Scratches could simply be from "minor" road debris being flicked into the wheels from passing traffic, including bikes.
Having seen that the Sigma brand VEL wheels have gone up so much since the great deals Black Friday to Xmas, just seen that Merlin's own carbon ~50mm rim disc wheels are on offer with 10% taken off when added to basket...
https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-cdr-1-carbon-clincher-disc-road-wheelset-700c-197244.html (~£450, 6-bolt)
https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-cdr-2-carbon-clincher-disc-road-wheelset-700c-245852.html (~473, CL, 40/50 depth)
I wouldn’t worry about scratching. Mine have scratches just from transit and even from changing tyres.
I’d defo be going for the lighter ones….but I’m a sub 70kg weight weenie putting out rubbish power, so I’d be thinking the wheels will be fine.
Here's the listing:
The seller does not know how they got scratched as he bought them like that from someone else. The scratches look cosmetic, but they could have been crashed and I don't know. I don't think I'll go for it, that's a big unknown.
That’s unusual. Having seen crash damaged wheels they didn’t look like that. And yeah I know crash damage isn’t universal, but that almost looks like someone has used a rim brake on them. Think you’re right to walk away. They could be fine but not worth it. I was expecting one or two marks, mainly in the graphics.
Looks to me like someone's clipped a curb for half a revolution which would have put them off the bike. And the rule with carbon is that damage can be invisible so yeah. Not confident.
Hah. So in the process of trying to sell me the wheels the seller said that he'd probably have kept them if he could change the freehub, as it's XDR and he's using Shimano. Well, I'd done my research to verify I could change it, so I sent him the links and now he's going to keep them and ride them. He's happy, I'm happy, I love a good end to a story 🙂
Very weird markings on those wheels - dropped sideways on concrete?
I thought maybe ridden down a crack, but it's only on one side. I think veered into a curb or some kind of obstacle.