[Closed] Jumps - why do most riders make no attempt and just roll them?

Think I need to go on a washing up skills course. One of my friends laughs when I try to wash a cup. Now she just tells me to leave it for her.

The early 90's pro's personify what mtb'ing is to me. Being able to do everything on the same bike. Climbing, decending, jumping, wheelies, skids etc.

If people aren't into jumping that is cool, but don't pretend it isn't one of the core skills!

only gayers ride groomed trails.

Personally, I think every 'competent' mtb'er should be able to pop a wheelie/manual, endo, drop-off, jump, drift, bunnyhop, rail a berm - to a certain degree.

This doesn't mean you have to be able to ride the length of your street on your back wheel, or huck 30ft road gaps - however, all these elements are core to riding an MTB on challenging terrain.

Everyone should try and improve these skills, so they can at least use them on the trail to a certain degree - it makes riding safer and more fun.

Don't chastise someone for rolling a table at a bike park though, if they aren't confident enough.

Blimey, I thought it was just about riding a bike.
So much to learn, even after 24 years riding a mountain bike.
Every day's a school day!! 😀

Its not about missing out or being awesome its about pushing and challenging yourself. If you don't try and 'up your game' what's the point?

I could say the same thing about the some of the "jumpers" at Gisburn etc where they have to walk up even the feeblest little hill, to then only ride down the smoothest bits of the forest on huge suspension bikes. Why not up your game / challenge yourself to ride everything and everywhere?

To plenty of folk, especially those riding walkers' trails (which was all many had in the first 15 years of mtb in UK) and/or those who missed out on bmx, jumping tabletops is useful about 0% of riding time.

It is fun though, and I'd love to be half decent at it.

And of course it always feels good to ride better than someone on a fancier bike.

Personally, I think every 'competent' mtb'er should be able to pop a wheelie/manual, endo, drop-off, jump, drift, bunnyhop, rail a berm - to a certain degree.

B******s, every competent MTBer should be able to ride up at least 3/4's of Jacobs Ladder in Peak District. Anything else just means your technically crap and unfit. What does jumping prove?

Riding has changed. People don't stop and session a drop or a bomb hole or to bunny hop onto logs. It's all about the flow, the ride, the berms, Strava and the man made trails.

Steady on grandad. Who are you to tell people how to enjoy their bike ride?

i regard mountain biking as riding over quite rough technically challenging terrain, what a lot of folk here describe as their mountain biking i would describe more as touring.

I'd describe what you call mountain biking more as trials riding.

I agree with the OP.
I find it quite wierd how so many middle aged fellas just sit, spin and bimble down the trails. It's like they've got no desire to improve at all.
Get your arse off the saddle! How hard can it be?

Oh to be 14 again, then I wouldn't have to worry about telling my company:
"I know you pay me a lot of money which allows me to pay my mortgage, look after my family and live a nice life but I've smashed myself up playing on my bike....sorry, you'll have to do without me"

To be fair OP, I'd like to be better at jumping but of all the things in mountain biking likely to lead to hospital time and potentially getting me the sack, getting big air is top of the list. At 38 and already carrying injuries I'm starting to think in terms of managing decline rather than pushing the envelope.

You know that Katy Perry song (yeah, I'm down with the kids) where she sings "we'll be young forever"?

She's lying.

I still get a ribbing from work colleagues after taking a day off because i fell off my bike. Nothing to do with jumps, is was wet roots and bad braking that caused that one.

The guys who think they'll hurt themselves if they try to jump are probably best leaving it (wrong mindset for learning imo). To any potential jumpers out there - find a small jump and go practice over and over again. Or get a bit of coaching as it seems to be acceptable to pay someone to make you session a jump.

Mdavids you consider 38 old? 😯

I roll jumps because a few years back when I was free, single and non-fearing, I couldn't keep my wheels on the ground. This went really well until I woke up strapped to a spinal board in a slow-moving ambulance.

I now have a wife and young child and I want to enjoy my mountain biking for years to come as well as being with them.

In short... I had a major mortality-check.

That might sound a bit OTT as we're only talking about a few small trail jumps BUT if you have the above rolling through your mind all the time, you WILL crash if you attempt to jump.

I enjoy my riding and love flying down red runs with reckless abandon, and my skills have if anything improved through my desire to keeps my wheels on the ground even when the trail dictates otherwise.

Mdavids you consider 38 old?

Maybe not old but certainly not young and I definately take a lot longer to heal when things do go wrong.

I only took up riding again about 4-5 years ago, regretted not doing it earlier and now I'm trying to make up for lost years. I dont want to waste any time recovering from daft, avoidable injuries.

I can't stop being a kid out on the bike, see stuff, anything, a bench steps natural drops or jumps, whatever and I want to ride/fly over up down it, but I am no yoof and a nasty injury is not really a option, but doing this stuff is almost irresistable..

additionally I have done some great landing head first/into immovable object etc. type "stunts" while on solo casual XC type rides, sometimes stuff just happens! that takes some of the fun out of XC..

what to do? practice skills, safely even if you dont ride big stuff it might stop you losing it on a XC ride. I know that practicing stuff has helped me avoid some accidents.

for this reason if no other it's good to push yourself.

Mdavids you consider 38 old?

38 [i]is[/i] old. Really old.

it's good to push yourself.

Tis true that, in all walks of life not just mountain biking.

I think the main catalyst for me taking up riding was a trip to fort bill, riding the cable car as a tourist and seeing the downhillers for the first time, not knowing such a thing existed.

A couple of months later I had my first xc hardtail, a year later I was mincing my way down fort bill on a rented downhill bike.

I'll happily do smaller jumps, drops and steep techy stuff but I've always held back on the bigger jumps with steep kickers. Very easy to get wrong with big consequences for failure.

I thought the essence of mountain biking is cleaning the climb, the rest is just the icing on the cake.

38 is old. Really old.

There's nothing so annoying as going on a ride and having to miss large areas out because you've got someone new riding with you who would stack it on some trail features.

There is nothing more annoying as someone new to ride with someone who forgets what it was to be someone new.
I've moved about once every 2 years for the last 18 years, I'm reasonable on a bike, but I've been 'someone new' a lot more than most. I've met some wonderful people on my travels and the majority have been fantastic. Those less so have nearly all been the local trail warriors with no empathy for others, whether the others are new to the area and don't know the trails or new to riding. Just try and remember what you were like before you were TEH AWESUM.

There is nothing more annoying as someone new to ride with someone who forgets what it was to be someone new.

I think you missed my point. I'm in favour of rollable features as it means everyone can ride rather than places with doubles or gaps that are likely to hurt them. I hate the attitude that everyone should want to get wheels in the air at all times and the associated building that comes with it (see the "ghetto" double that appeared on Barry Knows Best a few years back).

It is pretty annoying approaching a technical section and some bimbler bottles it - fair enough if they can't do it, but don't f'in stop and block the run-in.

B******s, every competent MTBer should be able to ride up at least 3/4's of Jacobs Ladder in Peak District. Anything else just means your technically crap and unfit. What does jumping prove?

Point missed in your rather arrogant reply.

Yes, being able to at least attempt to climb something technical like Jacobs is another essential skill - there will be varying degrees of success, but to say you must be able to clean 3/4 of it is as ridiculous as the OP. I have the technical ability, but my legs/lungs would probably give in first.

As for the other skills that I, they are all necessary to successfully negotiate trails - being able to do some degree of small jumps included. I don't like drops of more than 3-4ft, I can't wheelie far and I certainly can't huck, but if I come across a trail obstacle that is going to see me get the wheels off the ground, then I'll certainly tackle it - this is jumping, is it not?

I watched Danny Hart come up short on the final doubles at Antur Stiniog, then later on squash them all rather than jumping them, presumably he's a mincer too.

I have the technical ability, but my legs/lungs would probably give in first.

Is that because you've wasted time practising jumping when you could have been out doing intervals, and therefore got better at the vital fitness aspect of MTBing?

I watched Danny Hart come up short on the final doubles at Antur Stiniog, then later on squash them all rather than jumping them, presumably he's a mincer too.

Perhaps the size of his balls got in the way? I'm not even sure how he sits down, with balls that big.

Any KOM tossers on that new stretch yet?

This thread is a bit depressing really. Who on earth cares how others enjoy riding their bike? It's a simple pleasure anyone can enjoy in any way they wish to. If pootling along admiring scenery is your thing then great, if shredding the gnar, tackling 30 ft drops is your thing, awesome. If clearing every double, whipping every tabletop is your thing then brilliant. The beauty of modern mountain bikes is their ability to tackle most things you can throw at them, they are a great tool with versatility so anyone at any level of ability or with any particular riding desire can enjoy them fully.

I can't fathom why anyone would be bothered by how someone else chooses to enjoy their bike. It's got sod all to do with anyone else.

Is that because you've wasted time practising jumping when you could have been out doing intervals, and therefore got better at the vital fitness aspect of MTBing?

No

People who get uppity about others not jumping a bicycle tend to be, how do the Italians say it? [I]Piccolo[/i] .

Yes, being able to at least attempt to climb something technical like Jacobs is another essential skill - there will be varying degrees of success, but to say you must be able to clean 3/4 of it is as ridiculous as the OP. I have the technical ability, but my legs/lungs would probably give in first.

So your unfit then, spending all the time worrying about being able to jump?

3/4s of Jacobs is perfectly reasonable. top bits a pig as is the bottom bit, but most of the middle section's perfectly ridable. Even the bottom bit isn't that hard once you get to grips with the rocks moving around.

And no i haven't missed your point, you are claiming that you have to be able to jump, brutal reality is you don't, outside of trail centres and man made jump spots there are very few jumps, If your idea of MTBing is a glorified BMX track, then fine, if your idea of MTBing is actually riding a bike... Well.... If you want to ride a MTB off road then having some fitness helps far more than being able to do tricks.

Ever wondered why some don't like the Sorreling of South Wales trail centres? maybe some people like to ride rocks and roots and not berms and jumps?

Jacobs Ladder. Well, if that's the one I know near Edale everyone is talking about, the one I first rode in about '91, and sporadically ever since, then in itself, as a hill, it's not a hard thing to ride. If it was smooth, nobody would mention it and we'd all poodle up it pretty easily. It's purely a technical challenge, with maybe a bit of luck thrown in. It's one of the best examples of skill over fitness I can think of. 🙂

Jeez, lord help us if 3 people from this forum ever get together in a confined area....

Jeez, lord help us if 3 people from this forum ever get together in a confined area....

Judging by the photo he just posted, b45sher and I were riding in the same place yesterday! Was there a third? 😉

Euro, I agree that you're not going to see anyone clearing a big jump with style who has never ridden a lot of jumps already but I do think some people are fundamentally much more natural at jumping. I'd say that I'm on the better end of natural ability compared to the awful stiff unbalanced air-shy riders I come across but I'm a world away from the effortless loose stylish look and big air displayed by good jumpers (like yourself!)

A group of us were up at Bike Park Wales yesterday and spent a while sessioning the big tables at the top of Enter The Dragon. On my first runs I was keeping quite low and squishing them and it wasn't feeling right so I tried standing up more and pushing off the face harder (like some of my mates were doing) and that worked better.

There was a guy up there coaching a couple of riders so after one of the runs I asked him what I was doing wrong and he pointed out that I needed to get my weight back a bit more, straighten my arms more and slow down my shock rebound. Didn't fancy fiddling with the scary CCDBair at the time but I adjusted my body position, hit the jump quicker, pumped harder and flew further whilst feeling nicely balanced.

I did one more run after that good run and it was a bit messy, I just wasn't concentrating. I think one of us cleared the big tables, and a few others got close. I managed about halfway on my best run - I think they're over 20' long.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make in a longwinded way is that not everyone has the feel/knowledge/whatever to teach themselves to jump safely. I think anyone can jump given the right direction (be it paid coaching or having a mate who not only can jump but can teach a non-jumper how to jump).

You should see the blood spilled at one of Pook's pootles, there was over 50 at the last one. It was like dozens of Dr Whos all crossing Ghostbusters light streams - carnage, I'm sure it punched a hole in the fabric of time and space.

That's why I give blood, to help those that suffer from Pook's Pootle.

I'd say that learning basic "drops" is much much more important than learning basic jumps (although, like all MTB skills they are interconnected of course) I can think of a lot of natural trails with significant (and changeable, depending on weather/erosion) drops on them of all sizes, but really very very few with actual jumps. It seems that nature can easily erode a drop (after a big rock or root etc) but there is much less chance of the terrain being formed into a jump!

I have broken my collar bones three times; the doc said if I did it again I could cut the brachial nerve and end up with a dead arm.

That's why I very rarely jump. I'd love to be rad but I'm just sad.

Chris.

Jumping is undoubtedly fun - as are many aspects of mountain biking. As others have pointed out, it's debatable if it can be considered a fundamental skill. If I was teaching someone new to MTBing how to ride, I'd have it quite far down the list tbh.

Just enjoy your own riding and don't worry yourself about other people. Maybe they'll be inspired to get some air after watching you soar by with a big grin on your face.

I love 'trying' to get air and most often it scares the crap out of me...which is why I keep doing it. If I ever master the skill I think it maybe a lot less exciting.

Rolling, jumping...it doesnt matter as long as you enjoy what and how you ride and push yourself to do the things you would like to master.

So your unfit then, spending all the time worrying about being able to jump?

3/4s of Jacobs is perfectly reasonable. top bits a pig as is the bottom bit, but most of the middle section's perfectly ridable. Even the bottom bit isn't that hard once you get to grips with the rocks moving around.

And no i haven't missed your point, you are claiming that you have to be able to jump, brutal reality is you don't, outside of trail centres and man made jump spots there are very few jumps, If your idea of MTBing is a glorified BMX track, then fine, if your idea of MTBing is actually riding a bike... Well.... If you want to ride a MTB off road then having some fitness helps far more than being able to do tricks.

Ever wondered why some don't like the Sorreling of South Wales trail centres? maybe some people like to ride rocks and roots and not berms and jumps?

No, I didn't claim that you have to be able to jump. I can't jump for shit, but I'll have a go at little ones. Admittedly, it comes pretty much at the bottom of the list, but I still stand by my point, that it is one of the core elements of technical mtb'ing - be it a little 12" kicker, or a big rock in the trail. Being able to at least attempt it adds to the flow and enjoyment. IMO of course!

To be honest, I've never tried riding up Jacobs, as it doesn't really appeal to me - I much prefer riding up the back of it and coming down Jacobs. I'm as fit as I manage to be, with the amount of riding time I have available - and none of that time is spent 'practicing jumping' - I just like to try and tackle natural features when I encounter them - all improves your biking skills, as does fitness.

My idea of MTB'ing, is riding my MTB over rough terrain, including uphills, Peak rockfests, Fort William, BPW and even Llandegla all included. I'm guessing if you don't like berms, you must hate the Hagg Farm descent too?

I'm fat, unfit and lame on jumps, lame on most of the rest of the trail, and will probably never go any faster or try any harder. Am I not allowed out in this utopia of yours then?

If there's an natural up slope, followed by a natural down slope in the vicinity, it's a jump, no? You don't have to jump these, you're rolling them anyway, wouldn't like to take the opportunity to jump them instead?

Generally, off road, isn't the surface littered with lots of up slopes and down slopes? Hence littered with jumps?

Even riding along the road is littered with jumps.

I'm also of the opinion if you're riding rough ground, flat out, your tyres are barely in contact in the ground, you need jumping technique to control the bike when it's weightless. You might not notice it, but you're doing it. When it gets out of control in these situations, i definitely think you need soem form of jumping related technique too to ensure safety.

Take pumping aswell, is that a necessary mtbing skill either? Endos, bunny hops? Where does it stop, where does the line stop that says that skill is not necessary? Are you all saying MTBing involves no skill, all you need is a set of lungs and are able to stay upright seated?

Anyone got any footage of the trail?

Exactly deanfbm!

You don't have to be jedi master, but improving your skills in any area has to be good.

If you just want to pootle around holding your bars, pedalling and braking, then that's your prerogative and if you enjoy your riding then all is good, just don't say that being able to manoeuvre a bike over obstacles is unimportant.

CBATRATS but is it because you're in the south and there's loads of mincer on expensive bikes?

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

If you just want to pootle around holding your bars, pedalling and braking, then that's your prerogative and if you enjoy your riding then all is good, just don't say that being able to manoeuvre a bike over obstacles is unimportant.

Apart from the obvious lolz- if that's what they want to do then they're 100% correct that anything else is unimportant.

I shred teh gnat to teh maxxxx on my gnarpoon.

Am I orsumz enuff to be in the OP's crew?

There are lots of people that can't do the very basics of riding. A small wheelie, a bunnyhop, ride no handed, a little jump....

I have ridden no handed ,but apart from that have seen no need to do the other stuff in 30 years of MTBing

Don't we all have our own version of what riding a mountain bike is? Upping your game may be a long endurance ride, visiting wide open country or clearing a difficult climb. It's what you want it to be.

I've loads of experience riding all over the world and doing endurance events but jumping, doesn't hold any interest at all. I did it when I was a kid. That's it.

And I tell you something there are plenty of born again types being shuttled out by ambulence at our local - Sherwood pines 'cos they tried to up their game on the jumps park.

... amazed at the number of riders who made no attempt to get air - not even on the easy low level table tops. Most people just rolled the whole trail! They're just missing out so much that is fundemental to MTB'ing. I'm not talking big stuff here. C'mon at least make the effort and ride the trail the way it was designed to be ridden

There's so much in that statement that irks me. Take "[i]fundemental to MTB'ing[/i]".

Ignoring the obvious spelling error, to be fundamental something has to be a necessary base or core; to be of central importance. I wouldn't put jumping into that category when it comes to riding your MTB. Neither, it appears, would one of the UK's most respected MTB instructors as he didn't include "jumping" in his basic skills course (maybe it is next in line after Active body position and timing, Berms and Rollers, Bike Setup, Braking, Cornering, Having fun on a bike, Looking ahead, Maintaining speed through turns, Relaxing on the bike).

Most of the trails I ride are natural and not designed to be ridden in a particular way (i.e. not designed at a trail centre), but even so, who is the OP to say how I should ride an obstacle. There are potentially several different ways to tackle each trail feature.

Personally, I have always felt that fitness, route planning, navigation and endurance were fundamental to what I call MTB'ing. But know that those aspects are not necessarily what everyone else values.

Bottom line is that MTB'ing means different things to different people. If you're riding off-road on varying degrees of technical trail then you're a mountain biker. Do your own thing and have fun on your bike.

... and yes, I'm too old and wise (maybe) to take too many risks with jumping 🙂

theonlyeayisup
Personally, I have always felt that fitness, route planning, navigation and endurance were fundamental to what I call MTB'ing. But know that those aspects are not necessarily what everyone else values.

Bottom line is that MTB'ing means different things to different people. If you're riding off-road on varying degrees of technical trail then you're a mountain biker. Do your own thing and have fun on your bike.

... and yes, I'm too old and wise (maybe) to take too many risks with jumping

An old work colleague made similar comments about people who go to the gym and do what he considered to be the bare minimum such as walking on a tread mill rather than killing themselves trying to do a marathon as he would. He changed his mind when I brought to his attention that MrsT suffered from a degenerative arthritis condition and that especially during the winter months has difficulty walking outdoors.,she may also have to have either joint straightening operations or amputations in the future. Old colleague is a world champ sculler btw and for his age is super fit 🙂

I like mtb vids and there are some real corkers out there of people with super skills which make wonder how they are not dead.

But I have just come across this one that given this thread and my contribution has made me feel a proper lady garden.

Even the OP's got bored with this one.

He's under his bridge, sheltering from the rain

If there's a jump to be had, Jump it!

Even if you can't jump it, try, surly??

[img] ?w=500[/img]

54% of the people here are truly 'rad' apparently… According to our 2010 poll. Time for a new one?
I'd put myself in the biggest group…. 😉

http://singletrackmag.com/pollsarchive/?poll_page=62

Some of us do launch the jumps.... even manage to "launch" something you might not have noticed on the trail in front of you.

The problem I have at the moment, is not being able to get enough speed to cleanly clear gaps (BMX race track), but I'm working on it..

I'll do small jumps, mostly kerb style jumps as the trail pops them up, but if my wheels get any more than a foot of the ground, i'm getting out of my comfort zone. Table tops and humps and stuff? I've no interest in doing at all. Then again trail centres are few and far between for me mind, so I don't really get much exposure to them. But again, mtbing for me isn't really about getting round the trail as fast as I can it's about being out on the bike, I'll be as adverturous as I feel like at a certain time.

Plus if you smoked as much weed as I do while out and about, you'd probably get a little vertigo too when it came to the jumps! 😆

While I admire some guys skills, that sort of stuff has no value in my riding.
Miles, hours and days over country is my thing.

But I understand your statement about folk not moving on. It's all about comfort zones now.

My aim this year was to push my boundaires, push my comfort zones and become a more rounded MTBer. All began with an AM purchase at Xmas, then trips to BPW at JEDI, i feel now that as far as 'skills' go, ive upped my game massively this year, with jumps, drops and gaps now being more viable a prosepct.

I've also up my balls factor, attacking trails more than i would have previously and taking on stuff that once would have scared me.

I must admit, i'm not sure where this will take me, or how much i want to get more 'gnar' than i have, i'm in my 40's with wife/son and whilst pushing yourself is exceptional fun, it's also dangerous and can end in broken bones quite easily.

oh, FFS.

Is it all right with you if I just ride my bike? 🙄

Plus if you smoked as much weed as I do while out and about, you'd probably get a little vertigo too when it came to the jumps!

Its weird, I've ridden all my life, I used to be crazy for air as a youth. But ten years riding xc has killed that for me, the skills and bottle has gone and now I'm simply risk averse as regards air time. I'll ride off a cliff when going dh, I just hate jumps.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ap2J9RbXaP4

Miles, hours and days over country is my thing.

They're just missing out so much that is fundemental to MTB'ing

Curious thing to say. When was the last time you left a trail centre and headed out into the mountains?

There is no right or wrong. There is just enjoying riding bikes.

Caffeineoldbean

I was thinking that this thread needs more of

maybe this 🙂

[img] [/img]

Is that cat wearing a GoPro ?

🙂

^ 😀 ^
Simon says.........JUMP!

ohrats - Member
Plus if you smoked as much weed as I do while out and about, you'd probably get a little vertigo too when it came to the jumps!

Sounds good.

I'd probably jump more if I had a carbon bike and spds, but my bike is alu and I'm rocking flats. BUT I do try and jump, not big ones but when I'm flying down the lower cliff at Cannock it's difficult not to jump and I have to admit I absolutely love it when I do get some air and land it nice.

Some comments above have made me chuckle, others are a little more balanced and quite sensible and relevant.

BUT, for those of you who don't have sugar in your tea, you really should up your game. It's one of the fundamentals of tea drinking, you know.

Whatever makes you smile innit!

I started riding bikes offroad over 30 years ago, me and my mates didn't have access to trail centers even if they did exist. So we just clattered around local woods and ranges and where we did get air it tended to be the odd natural roller. I'm still more than happy to jump off something like that.

But deliberately manufactured trail center jumps are steep faced and deliberately kicked, they seem designed to give you 3 feet of altitude for every 6 inches forward and I have no idea how you're supposed to go about it, even if most of them weren't only about 3 inches wide. So, it's cos they build them wrong! 😆

Kids eh!

I think WaywardRider is just a bit passionate about what he does. and when you are, you can't understand why other folk don't seem the same.

I can relate. I apologised on a club run last Tuesday for going on about how easy it would be for them to join me on a 300 or 600km road ride, none of them had any interest in riding past 100km.