You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
molgrips, you stick with your ability enhancer, leave the skill and finesse to us rigid riders
I do most of my riding on a rigid bike these days Ton, just not a Jesus Jones bike 🙂
You must ride with some greenhorns
Really, no : ) But I meant riding in places where others you meet are on springs. I'm working hard to stay with regular riding mates on sussers and usually off the back on a big descent with them if I'm on the Jones and it's fast+rough. Not usually by that much, depends though.
Chief gets the theory.
I wonder how huge a difference in stiffness there is between the truss fork and a modern tapered steerer large stanchion fork?
The truss is stiffer, stiffer than it probably needs to be but when 5-10mm of offset change affects handling as much as it does that rigidity is a good thing when you brake hard. Zero fore-aft flex. Very stiff front wheel with the 135mm hub. Great accuracy on off-camber or rutted ground. Combined with the BB drop and ride position, the bars, etc .. it adds up.
Mine is the one Steve Worland rode for this review
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-jeff-jones-spaceframe-custom-08-31620/ ]http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-jeff-jones-spaceframe-custom-08-31620/[/url]
" "The ride will inspire anyone who buys into Jeff Jones's philosophy"
Verdict: very special
There’s something very special going on here"
Ugh
Mine are both from Taiwan : )
Yes I cannot see how all that metalwork on the fork makes any difference.
2nd moment of area, tubes at a distance. parallel axis theorem. innit.
the upper legs stop the point of max bending being focused at the lower headset race, the same thing that a triple crown dh fork does.
Mine was cheap(ish) 2nd hand : )
Just posting a pic of mine cause I just got back from yet another 'grinning like a loon' ride, happened to take a photo and saw this thread. Not a good photo cause it's something I rarely do.
Haven't read the thread but can imagine the comments anyway, 'ooh it's all hype', 'just ride it' etc.
Nearly sold mine when I had the unicrown fork, then got the ridiculously expensive truss fork at a knock down price of really expensive and it made the difference. Went from being like a good 29er to something different. In a a good way. Still surprised at that.
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8628/29762436306_09bbd476fb.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8628/29762436306_09bbd476fb.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Mm1gpy ]IMG_20160915_181542612[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36574813@N06/ ]Matthew Bird[/url], on Flickr
molgrips, you ride rigid? i thought you spent your time, in wales,
Blasting rock gardens as fast as possible
on your rigid bike......... 😆
No see, sometimes I ride my FS, but more often ride my rigid bike.
Oh it's amazing, just so fantastic, once you really buy into the philosophy you really start to understand.... 😆
I have no opinion one way or another as I don't like to draw conclusions based on others assessments, but I have to confess, the geometry of the space frame Jones has always befuddled the bejesus out of me. Short chainstays, the angle on the seat tube, the low BB, short top tube and high front end always make me feel like it would fall over backwards on anything technical an uppy.
Do they climb well? Do you get any toe overlap on the SF? I've never even seen one in the metal.
Fine trolling from Molgrips, you've really got nothing to add to this thread have you.
I,d really like to see what some of the really fast guys on our night rides could do with a Jones.
The same as they could do with any other bike I'd imagine 🙂
Morning Matt. That fork was a bargain! Drop it round for a fettle soon.
Tim
For someone who has spent more time on this thread than actually riding a Jones around a campsite this thread would have died long ago if it wasn't for Molgrip's "input"
Making the rest of us wax lyrical about our bikes.
Could he be on Jeff's payroll as it's a great advert that he doesn't have to pay for?
Where are the titanium frames made these days as the web site doesn't say.
They are still commanding premium Ti prices, which was fine when they were made in tiny quanties by either Jeff or Merlin for a while.
Rik, they're made by a good factory in Taiwan, a really good one ime. The price is down to volumes, tooling and no doubt the fact that they are unique plus desirable to enough people to command a premium. I don't see a crazy-high margin being made on the bikes but also I'd not be underselling them if it was my brand either.
Do they climb well? Do you get any toe overlap on the SF?
They climb brilliantly, particularly on anything technical but you do need to adapt or re-learn your positioning to work with it. It climbs better up anything steep when stood up, which makes sense to me and I guess is why it makes such a good single-speed (my Ti SF is a full-time SS). The bars help too, the fore-aft range suits the frame geo and the bars can feel much better on the Jones than they do on some other bikes. I don't get overlap with size 45 shoes, cleats well back / foot fwd, 2.4 Ardent tyres and 175mm cranks.
"Making the rest of us wax lyrical about our bikes.
Could he be on Jeff's payroll as it's a great advert that he doesn't have to pay for?"
To be fair . Your just a little less subtle when it comes to leprechaun forks and travers loving
I love Jeff's philosophy. I also admire him for doing something different.
Not ridden one of his bikes, but I like the way he is tackling the problem.
Interestingly I found jones bars hinders climbing. Great going along or down, but I struggled with hands so close to my body. The widest bit for honking out of the saddle is closest to the body. I tried altering my technique but preferred normal bars for steep climbs.
Out of interest is there anyone with experience who can say whether any difference between the alloy and the carbon or Ti bars is worth the expense?
@clink, I find they help me use stronger muscles in my sides and arms when stood up, but more so on his bikes than some others and I wouldn't expect anything like this to work for everybody. I think Jeff's bar / bike position theories make a lot of sense if you look at other ergonomic examples, how we'd lift weights or a boxer's stance etc, but there's no 'one way fits all of us best' solution - same also goes for one size fits all bikes imo.
I'm not sure if my love of the Jones ergonomics is all the design or if it also has a fair bit to do with being the same height as Jeff. A few shorter riders have enjoyed riding my Jones more than they would enjoy my road bike though so there's probably something in it.
Molgrips, this thread was started by asking a question, but really the only people in a position to actually answer are people that have ridden them properly, for extended periods and lived with them, and you by your own admission haven't and yet you berate them, calling them fanbois and claim they're wrong?
Poor even by STW standards!
If you approach this logically I see only three answers
1. They are caught up in the hype and justifying a big purchase
2. They are converted because they *are* something special
3. They aren't special as such but fulfilled a need for a certain use case/kind of rider who wasn't able to get what they wanted from other bikes, so naturally [i]they [/i]feel they are something special as 'normal' wasn't what they needed.
Whichever answer it actually is, you can't be sure until you've experienced it yourself, and the fact that very few Jones owners get rid of them, or have a bad word to say about them, even very well off owners for whom the cost is irrelevant, and multiple bike swappers, surely tickles your curiosity bone a little doesn't it?
I've never ridden one, I'd like to try, maybe there is something very special about them, maybe there isn't but right now I don't know. There's certainly enough evidence from rider reports to make me curious to try one properly, as in several hundred miles on varied terrain before trying to draw any conclusions.
EDIT - If anyone in Exeter area has one and wants to try and convert me then drop me a mail 😉
Out of interest is there anyone with experience who can say whether any difference between the alloy and the carbon or Ti bars is worth the expense?
I have some Ti loops on my steel Jones, they feel just like the Al loops tbh. maybe a tad less rigid but that's probably just my imagination. I bought them as I liked them, they feel 'permanent' in a way, and a reward of sorts for something. No other reason. The carbons make loads more sense for that sort of money but I simply didn't want carbon on a bike that gets the use that bike does. The carbon bars do save a chunk of weight if that's of use.
3. They aren't special as such but fulfilled a need for a certain use case/kind of rider who wasn't able to get what they wanted from other bikes, so naturally they feel they are something special as 'normal' wasn't what they needed.
Detaching myself from an obvious professional admiration of Jeff's work, this is the basic answer to the thread. I'd say the design is special as it takes a certain way of thinking to arrive at a bike like this, but objectively it's still just a bike of sorts.
If you're over the Chilterns way (Aston Hill area) you're welcome to try both of mine during a ride. The ti bike isn't getting gears put on it though : )
well said amedias. a sensible input to a thread invaded by a fair bit on nonsense.
Interestingly I found jones bars hinders climbing. Great going along or down, but I struggled with hands so close to my body.
Same here. Had them for a year on my stooge. They were great for the downs and long miles. Awsome for bikepacking. Somehow wasn't able to get them working for climbing, always felt a bit wrong.
[img]
[/img]
I've got two at the moment: a ti spaceframe I've had for over ten years and a steel diamond/truss I've had for maybe three years. Just considering a third having tested a Plus the last two weeks of hooning around and bikepacking. I drank the Koolaid but I wouldn't keep them if they didn't work. I've probably bought and sold five full suss bikes in the mean time.
I do have a 29er hardtail for different stuff but if I had to have only one bike it would be a ti spaceframe. With the narrower ti bars.
Carbon bars v light, ti bars v bling and alloy just fine. Carbon is a good option but nothing wrong with the alloy ones.
I like the bars for climbing, and the ability to change hand position is a boon, especially as in the end it is a very rigid bike up front with a truss fork.
Out of interest is there anyone with experience who can say whether any difference between the alloy and the carbon or Ti bars is worth the expense?
I had TI jones bars on my tripster and was quite happy with them but bought an unused Carbon Jones bar from the STW classifieds and it sat in the corner of the room for ages until i read [url= https://drj0nswanderings.wordpress.com/2015/11/ ]drjOn's[/url] blog and that prompted me to fit them.
I never thought i'd be able to feel any difference but there is a noticeable reduction in vibration, not just on off road trails but on badly surfaced roads as well.
edit : A trio of Jones and my sulking soulcraft pinned in at the back feeling inadequate, two of the Jones were Jeffs and the other belonged to Biff - prior to heading up to SSWC 2007 at Aviemore we all had a spin round Kirroughtree and Drumlanrig.
[img] 
[/img]
So what's the difference in use between Jones and Stooge? They look like a similar idea?
Thanks for the feedback. Apart from drops I can't actually used any other bars since I started using Jones bars.
That's just acclimatisation though.
Molgrips, if you have a look through the enormous stooge bikes threads, there is lots of jones/stooge stuff in there.
I've owned both and the stooge isn't really anything like the jones (other than its designed to be a rigid bike, rather than a bike with compromises for a squishy fork)
Stooge is stonking little frame and If i could only have one of those, rather than my hoard of niche tat , I would be more than happy.
really a better comparison would be to say that a stooge is close to a Wolfhound in design philosophy, in that they both want to make a rigid 29er as capable in the rough stuff as possible.
'That's just acclimatisation though'.
Er no. Bought some really funky Ritchey carbon bars for my P 29er and wanted to love them cause they looked so right. Had to give in after a couple of months and get some second-hand Titecs. Bike and rider happy now.
How do they fit short arses, just out of interest?
I find designers and products that challenge accepted dogma very interesting.
I tend to value fun, versatility, reliability and simplicity, so the bikes appeal.
I'm open minded about the ride and fit, I've never tried one and I'm scared to do so because I can't afford one 🙂
Well it's acclimatisation with me. Spend 15 years riding riser bars and being perfectly happy, then one year riding the fleegles, then the risers feel wrong when they were perfect before.
Same if I spend too much time riding my road bike, all my MTBs feel horribly short - and vice versa.
rustyspanner, my 5ft 2 and a bit better half rides my space frame, with an inline seat post and 50mm stem, no problems at all. If you are anywhere north west or midlands, you are more than welcome to take mine for a test ride, in (ikkle dwarfy person) mode
The only similarity between the Stooge and the Jones was I've owned both and don't any more, I preferred the Stooge but not enough to keep it, I've gone back to Pugsleys, Karate Monkeys and clunkers, both good bikes, but try them first, horses for courses, not for me though....
I have a carbon bar on mine and Biff kindly lent me an alloy pair while they were on order.
They do ride quite differently. The carbon is quite a bit lighter and offers more comfort/damping vs the alloy which is noticeably more harsh. I can only imagine that the ti is similar to the carbon in ride quality but it is a fair bit more expensive, heavier and uses a shim.
Great bikes, great bars, and judging from fellow owners on this thread people tend to hang on to them, unlike here today, gone tomorrow suspension designs. That must say something about how good they are.
Whenever I feel I little bored with my Solaris (not that this happens often but I have had it 2 years!) I do start looking at Jones.
So far I've resisted! Even though the guys at the shop I got my Pugs from keep offering me a test ride on a Jones.
Threads like this don't help. 😕
On climbing - I'd agree, sort of , that they aren't as good.
On my geared bikes I wouldn't have anything but my Jones bars (and I've tried loads). Hands on the front of the loop and spin away, dead comfy.
But on my SS, where climbs are honked, a set of bar ends can't be beat imo. I use Ergons with the built in ends on a carbon riser.
It's an odd one as going up where they might be expected to excel, whereas I find going downhill is where I like them the most as they allow you to get weight back and keep a relaxed grip.
The newer ti bars don't have a shim- i've got some and I would be hard pushed to notice in difference in riding but they are a bit lighter and look more shinier
Never seen a Jones in the flesh, love the look in photos, and looking at these I've got a question, don't know much about them, but how do you remove the fork? Say for headset service and change, seems to me they can't be removed, am I missing something (chances are high)
Tazzy, thanks for that.
I think.
🙂
For sale, one kidney, resembles used tea bag.....
how do you remove the fork
Undo three bolts and slide the steerer tube out.
[img] 
?c=2[/img]
Cheers Stu, makes a hell of a lot of sense now. Now to find one local to have a ride on,
where about are you?
Mine set up in full muddy ride / winter mode
[img] 
[/img]
My god even if I say so myself, that mud guard is a eye sore
You won't need a mudguard wjth that rear tire.
Mudguard is unoticible next to that tangle of Ti tubes 😉
Do fireroads ever get that muddy?
North Norfolk stu
Not much use then. If you were more Midlands you could have had a spin on mine as it doesn't get much use any more.
What's the main reason for that Stu?
What's the main reason for that Stu?
Rigid bikes really aren't that much fun on an uplift bus. 😉
Blatant plug.
The Loop bar that a few of you emailed me about is up in the FS section.
[img] 
[/img]
if it helps anyone who is pondering trying a demo out, if you like messing around in the woods on a bike, a Jones may well be the perfect bike.
it can, of course, be ridden anywhere to do anything - just like any bike. no, it wont let you conquer an enduro or get the most out of the fall line trail at ski hills, but if you want to wind yourself round woodsy trails, Jeff knows a thing or two about getting your weight balanced between the wheels in such a way that you are relaxed and poised, primed to try and take those twists and turns and ups and downs with confidence.
Yes, it is rigid, and that is a *good* thing in certain scenarios. You have to be going at a fair rate to get the adrenalin flowing with 5+ inches of travel on demand, but the sh!t eating grin that is produced when you make a simple bike fly through a tight trail is attainable without going to a trail centre or the back country.
Truss forks are stiffer fore-aft. the thing about that is later braking (as long as you have traction) and more precision in higher amplitude rocky or rooty trail.
The Jones bars, if you suit the 45 degree sweep (and it can take a little time to adapt) feed into the ability to move your weight around with an 80-90mm stem you can have your hands in line with the steerer or much further forward with ease. on steeps that helps a bunch.
Ok...my thoughts, or some of them at least....
Yes, it is rigid, and that is a *good* thing in certain scenarios. You have to be going at a fair rate to get the adrenalin flowing with 5+ inches of travel on demand, but the sh!t eating grin that is produced when you make a simple bike fly through a tight trail is attainable without going to a trail centre or the back country.
I think you've nailed it there DJ. Always like seeing your bikes - what front tyre rim combo is on the JJ above?
thanks!
its a hodag 27.5x3.8 (~90mm ish wide) on a nextie junglefox 2 45mm internal rim. the rear is the same rim, and an Ikon plus. its a great combo for this bike....though my eye is on the Minion FBF 27.5x3.8...
Hmm... thought it might be something a little exotic 🙂 Nice
A test ride (with an open mind) is [b]the[/b] recommended course of action for the Jones curious.
Happy to sort out all I can – I'm emailable. Enjoying the posts here – good conversation.
Anyone one using their Plus (Boost) for road rides/touring? On WTB Scrapers (45mm) I'm guessing not many road biased tyres. What is your other rim/hub combo and what tyres do you run?
Been running some Loop bars on my rigid fat bike for nearly 2 years - I actually don't have a problem climbing with them. Keeps my weight centred between the wheel and simply use body-weight to drive through the pedals so a bit less tiring on really long rides.