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Good points.
TLDR version: My inbox is open for questions about details.
I'm not allowed to make any claims in public that are not approved by Crowdcube or already approved in the pitch/campaign. In terms of the pitch slides, Crowdcube restrict everything that can be said by me down to less than 80 words per category and their template has a restricted number of slides that can be used. I found it very restricting.
Public facing Crowdcube campaigns get lots more room for details and access to detailed business plans but a public campaign is much more expensive. We've had to pay upfront for our current campaign. These closed/private Crowdcube campaigns are designed for businesses like us that have an existing community that we can promote to. We don't get access to the wider Crowdcube community of existing investors or the more professional investor. Our campaign level is designed well for fan based community businesses.
I can't publish our business plan here - 1) it would not be wise commercially and 2) Crowdcube would not approve that.
So, it's not ideal for investors who want to see everything and all the detail laid out in the campaign pitch but my inbox is open for private discussion. How far into the weeds we go may have to involve an NDA style agreement. But I'm ready to talk details with any and all serious potential investors.
hese closed/private Crowdcube campaigns are designed for businesses like us that have an existing community that we can promote to. We don't get access to the wider Crowdcube community of existing investors or the more professional investor. Our campaign level is designed well for fan based community businesses.
I might be unduly cynical, but this sounds like we dont want serious investors who will create more accountability and demands for financail returns to be delivered. This takes us back up the thread to where this is effectively an enhanced donation as no one is likely to see good returns. Thats fine if thats the basis indiviudals want to invest on.
I think Mark has made it clear he's more than willing to talk directly to any major investor. And anyone investing multiple thousands would be daft not to do so.
Anyone putting in a few hundred won't see much of a return, but you won't see much return by putting a few hundred into any investment.
It does appear to be a UK resident only campaign
In that case it might be worth considering a donations type option for non UK folks like I think had already been mentioned. It might not raise huge amounts but it sounds like there are a few of us who would like a chance to help move things on even if we can't invest directly
It hadn’t crossed my mind that some may want to donate rather than invest. But I hadn’t taken into account the limitations set by Crowdcube.
this link is for our 502 club donation page. I’ll take the 502 branding off it shortly but it still works. I will propose that any donations will be treated like an investment as far as the Crowdcube perks go.
Gravel's just mountain biking on a roadbike - it's not a separate thing! 😉
Cyclist Magazine (traditionally a roadie publication) has dabbled a bit in gravel stuff. Various routes, tests of gravel bikes etc.
It splits the readership right down the middle; half the people saying it's wonderful that gravel is being accommodated and half saying that gravel biking is the spawn of the devil!
🤣
It hadn’t crossed my mind that some may want to donate rather than invest.
Realistically, this feels like semantics. Don't get me wrong, it's unarguably kudos-worthy that ST is still going strong, what with its unholy union of a legacy forum that's unashamedly about anything but biking and a print magazine that's the exact opposite. But... I find it very hard to believe that a small, specialist publishing company with an ageing customer base is ever going to be a credible 'investment' opportunity. As an opportunity to put money into something you like with no real expectation of returns, then fine, but investment feels like a stretch.
It all feels a little like wishful thinking. Particularly the bit where you expand the brand's reach into a younger audience simply by bringing in younger contributors. Like it or not, your content is very much defined by a sort of world-weary, slightly nostalgic ennui and a studied reluctance to embrace any sort of enthusiasm. Just watch the Mega Sack videos, which mostly feature two quite bored people being quite bored about products they're presumably being paid to, effectively, promote. That's kind of the brand you have. How you change that, I really don't know.
ST to me feels like a magazine and website aimed at people who used to ride mountain bikes and very occasionally still do. Of course that's probably a reflection of my own current grumpy state, but my main takeaway is that you need to ring fence a part of the editorial budget for brilliant content, regardless of the age or demographic of the contributors. It doesn't matter if it's video or fantastic original writing or poetry or stunning water colours, it just needs to be good and it needs to sparkle.
Sorry, that feels a bit like kicking an ageing cat because it's not chasing a ball of wool like a hyperactive kitten, but there you go. Don't get me wrong, I love the forum in particular for its mad range of comprehensive knowledge and information underpinned by the same world weary cynicism - and yes, I can see the irony in that - and I'm a paid-up member because I want to support and continue to use it, but I find it hard to see how you change that markedly without shedding your existing audience and brand at the same time. But there you go, as the clichéd ending goes, prove me wrong 🙂
Gravel's just mountain biking on a roadbike - it's not a separate thing! 😉
I'd consider that more Cyclocross, whereas Gravel is headed towards putting drop bars on a mountainbike. 🤓
Apologies, there are probably higher value things to discuss here. The reason for my comment was pointing out the lack of explicitness on what sectors will be targeted. But on reflection it isn't super helpful feedback as the offer is closed to Singletrackers who should be familiar with what Singletrack does.
Gravel's just mountain biking on a roadbike - it's not a separate thing!
Isn't it just what former mountain bikers do because they're scared of roads, road bikes and roadie culture from one end. And what roadies who are scared of trails, mountain bikes and mountain bike culture do from the other. Kind of the best or the worst of both worlds?
It hadn’t crossed my mind that some may want to donate rather than invest.
Realistically, this feels like semantics. Don't get me wrong, it's unarguably kudos-worthy that ST is still going strong, what with its unholy union of a legacy forum that's unashamedly about anything but biking and a print magazine that's the exact opposite. But... I find it very hard to believe that a small, specialist publishing company with an ageing customer base is ever going to be a credible 'investment' opportunity. As an opportunity to put money into something you like with no real expectation of returns, then fine, but investment feels like a stretch.
It all feels a little like wishful thinking. Particularly the bit where you expand the brand's reach into a younger audience simply by bringing in younger contributors. Like it or not, your content is very much defined by a sort of world-weary, slightly nostalgic ennui and a studied reluctance to embrace any sort of enthusiasm. Just watch the Mega Sack videos, which mostly feature two quite bored people being quite bored about products they're presumably being paid to, effectively, promote. That's kind of the brand you have. How you change that, I really don't know.
ST to me feels like a magazine and website aimed at people who used to ride mountain bikes and very occasionally still do. Of course that's probably a reflection of my own current grumpy state, but my main takeaway is that you need to ring fence a part of the editorial budget for brilliant content, regardless of the age or demographic of the contributors. It doesn't matter if it's video or fantastic original writing or poetry or stunning water colours, it just needs to be good and it needs to sparkle.
Sorry, that feels a bit like kicking an ageing cat because it's not chasing a ball of wool like a hyperactive kitten, but there you go. Don't get me wrong, I love the forum in particular for its mad range of comprehensive knowledge and information underpinned by the same world weary cynicism - and yes, I can see the irony in that - and I'm a paid-up member because I want to support and continue to use it, but I find it hard to see how you change that markedly without shedding your existing audience and brand at the same time. But there you go, as the clichéd ending goes, prove me wrong 🙂
The young people thing hits home to me too, you could bring in anyone you want and the youngsters are still not going to get engaged, because you don't exist in their world. Unless by 'young' you're talking mid 30s 😀 but certainly being an owner of a young MTBer, you don't exist at STW and i honestly doubt you ever will. They don't want long engaging videos, they're 20s wonders and bam bam bam on TikTok and other media. Maybe something like a Rampage can engage them a bit, but a video on something UK based or a build article or something, nah, not happening.
Fwiw, I'm not saying that ST is doomed or terrible and I apologise for my knee-injury grump, I'm genuinely impressed that you're still going, particularly as a specialist print mag, I just think it's a hard ask to move from the base you have into a younger demographic. It reminds me a bit of the thing where traditional hill walking clothing brands like Berghaus have woken up to the reality that they have an ageing customer base and tried to address that by creating what they see as edgy new ranges aimed squarely at young people.
Meanwhile 'young people' are using completely different, non-traditional brands precisely because they're not traditional hill brands. The guys that have side-stepped that, maybe Arc'teryx and Rab for example, have done it by becoming desirable in gorpcore - ie: urban fashion - circles rather than by trying to cater for that market overtly. Or that's how I see it.
Sorry, that's all a bit OT and convoluted with it.
I think BadlyWiredDog makes a very good point. Sometimes you are better to stay in your own lane and do that really well. People get older and naturally move into the market you are catering for. STW has never been for rad and gnar riders!
"young' you're talking mid 30s"
Exactly this 🙂
'Young' is a relative term. It would be pointless and frankly stupid to try and pivot Singletrack to some sort of youth media. We started out as 30 somethings 25 years ago. That's our lane and we need to stick to it. The danger is that if everyone who creates the content is in their 50's it's a daft thing to try and get them to appeal to 30 somethings. Not to say that we stop writing content for 40 sor 50 somethings - that too would be daft. From a purely commercial pov that's where the money is. The plan we have is to widen our output to once again include that 30 something demographic, which is where Singletrack grew from originally.
To do that with our current resources would be extremely hard and frankly risky. We are spread very thin as it is. What we need is more resources to be able to increase output so we cover the bases really well for all of us from 30s, 40s,50s,60s etc. Without change the risk is Singletrack moves with the current demographic of it's audience, which is by natural processes only ever going to get smaller.
- There's another thing too. I am 2 weeks back from a 10 day research trip to three resorts in BC. It's all coming up in our BC destination guides in a month or so. It was exhausting! Yeah, yeah.. I know. Small violins and all that. It was a work highlight for sure and an experience I'll never forget. I guess the point is, that trip was profitable for us but there's no way I personally am th eright person to be going on those kinds of trips. 10 days away for me has caused issues throughout the business. This latest issue is delayed in delivery because there were jobs and admin I needed to get sorted and didn't. Even just doing payroll was a problem. It took me a week to fully recover from the intensity of that trip. With the right resources and frankly more cash in the bank we'd have found someone else to do it. And indeed that's the plan for future trips like that. I'm 54 now and I need to be running the business well and not having 10 day work trips to Canada. I'm much more productive as a company resource being here.
Personally that's tragic - but I'm no longer the best person to be heading out to press camps. We need to be sending better people who can turn around content quicker and better suited to a wider audience. Chipps an I are aging well (I'm actually fitter than I've been for quite some years) but if Singletrack is to sustain itself it doesn't need stuff commissioned or written by people who are old enough to start thinking about taking money out of their pension.
I have a great deal of experience and still have a lot to give to Singletrack, but the content output must not have to rely on me doing stuff. That is not where my value as a asset to the busines lies.
My goal is actually rather self defeating. I want to grow Singletrack to be not just sustainable (and by that I really mean profitable) but to get to a point where I'm effectively redundant and it continues to be successful. I'm much happier in the background making things work than I am at the front end these days.
🙂
IMPORTANT PS
Attracting a new audience is NOT the sole focus of the grand plan. That involves things like tech innovation, proper marketing of our content and development of new commercial campaigns with brand partners. All of that is vital too and this is where I personally and far better used.
That's our lane and we need to stick to it. The danger is that if everyone who creates the content is in their 50's it's a daft thing to try and get them to appeal to 30 somethings. Not to say that we stop writing content for 40 sor 50 somethings - that too would be daft.
Just my personal take, but what you need to do is produce great content, full stop. Your audience is mountain bikers, maybe gravel bikers too, who are defined by their interest in bikes, doing stuff with bikes, exploring with bike falling off bikes, doing things to bikes. Being passionate about bikes basically. That stuff transcends - or should transcend - age. There are people in their 20s wth the mentality of a risk-averse pensioner, equally there are folk out there in their 80s who still have the bright, shiny eyes and enthusiasm of teenagers discovering the world for the first time. I'd park the whole age thing on one side and just focus on producing brilliant stories, photography, video, whatever.
Believing idealistic stuff like this is, of course, why I'd be totally unsuited to running a business 🙂
I'm also someone who likes the forum, is passionate about riding bikes, but always found the magazine flat and disappointing, but that's fine, different people have different tastes.
ust my personal take, but what you need to do is produce great content, full stop. Your audience is mountain bikers, maybe gravel bikers too, who are defined by their interest in bikes, doing stuff with bikes, exploring with bike falling off bikes, doing things to bikes.
Personally I think the increase in gravel bike content is one of the problems with the current magazine. Im interested in mountain biking not gravel. The idea of deliberately choosing to focus on riding boring gravel and fire roads as the aim of a ride strikes me as focusing on the worst aspect of mountain biking. If I want to do gravel then I would read other publications and frequent other website.
There's another thing too. I am 2 weeks back from a 10 day research trip to three resorts in BC. It's all coming up in our BC destination guides in a month or so. It was exhausting! Yeah, yeah.. I know. Small violins and all that. It was a work highlight for sure and an experience I'll never forget. I guess the point is, that trip was profitable for us but there's no way I personally am th eright person to be going on those kinds of trips. 10 days away for me has caused issues throughout the business. This latest issue is delayed in delivery because there were jobs and admin I needed to get sorted and didn't. Even just doing payroll was a problem. It took me a week to fully recover from the intensity of that trip. With the right resources and frankly more cash in the bank we'd have found someone else to do it. And indeed that's the plan for future trips like that. I'm 54 now and I need to be running the business well and not having 10 day work trips to Canada. I'm much more productive as a company resource being here.
For me, this is a great example of why I'm no longer keen on the magazine and that on next renewal I will be moving to online only and not the paper magazine. I have no interest in reading any of the articles about resorts that are abroad, it's not something I can afford (in current financial climate it feels many would be the same) or would even want to do. Similary I dont want to read about high spec bikes and equipment only available to the elite riders. I am far more interested in UK trails that are accessible to more people. Of course others may be totally different and I know you need to appeal to a wide audience.
Again I'm afraid that this post really rattles with me when it comes to the investment opportunity. I'm not sure why it annoys me so much, but the fact you are looking for people to invest so that you (or someone younger) can be galivanting around the world rather than dealing with the BAU of running a business (including even doing the payroll) gives me no hope that any investment would result in any sort of return. I honestly think you basically just want donations to keep the business and your income rolling on (which would be ok if that is what you just stated).
I love this forum and will continue to support it via an online subscription but think I probably need to stop reading about the investment side as clearly its something that unnecessarily irks me (sorry!)
Is there a number somewhere of how much you are trying to raise? I think I might be a bit limited in what I can see as I can't invest as non uk
Mark mentioned above that there goals, with a plan attached to each of them - IIRC the first one is at £40k
I have no interest in reading any of the articles about resorts that are abroad
I too struggle with too much coverage of far flung places. Not because I’m not interested in far off places, but because I feel that we should all be aiming to reduce (even eliminate) the number of flights we take.
I’d love to ride in Peru or Canada or the ‘Stans but i can’t bring myself to take a flight for a short holiday. It troubles me that people seem oblivious to this issue. I have the problem with the Bikepacking.com journal. It’s beautifully produced and if the writers are on long term trips with most of the travel done by bike then fine, but many of the trips are by people flying half way around the world to ride for a couple of weeks. We can’t all do that without worrying consequences… at least not on a regular basis.
Mark mentioned above that there goals, with a plan attached to each of them - IIRC the first one is at £40k
Thanks. I knew I had seen 40k somewhere but just couldn't find it again but that explains it.
As an example the current issue of the magazine. I enjoyed the article on Scottish riding. The gear reviews were ok. The morzine advert was fine on the mtb bit but then disappeared into gravel riding. The rest of the articles held no interest to me. I’m not interested in gravel bikes, silly tall bikes or whatever soul is meant to mean. For a magazine that’s about mountain biking there isn’t much mountain biking content in it
Just to balance things out, the international articles have always been one of the things which attracted me most to Singletrackworld. I may not get to ride many of them, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t like reading them, and dreaming about them.
And, although I find it unlikely that I will ever visit BC, it’s probably my favourite place in the world to read about, and to watch in YouTube.
I've decided an investment isn't for me - at my age (late 50s) I need guaranteed returns on what little I have to spare.
So I'll continue to support STW in the usual way, and bought another beanie hat on Friday! As I needed a new beanie and STW may as well have the business.
I am far more interested in UK trails that are accessible to more people.
Difficult to do that when the majority of trails we ride are officially out of bounds for a magazine to photograph or write about.
but the fact you are looking for people to invest so that you (or someone younger) can be galivanting around the world rather than dealing with the BAU of running a business
Any magazine for any outdoor sport/hobby is going to write about locations abroad. The important thing is balance. How do you get that right if all you can write about here are the usual boring bridleways in the Peak District and Yorkshire Dales?
And I think the point Mark was making was that he'd rather not be galavanting round the world when his time would be better spent running the business. To do that though he needs to be able to pay other people who are much cheaper/more available than him to do that. 🙂
Any magazine for any outdoor sport/hobby is going to write about locations abroad. The important thing is balance. How do you get that right if all you can write about here are the usual boring bridleways in the Peak District and Yorkshire Dales?
I guess some of this is down to how you view a magazine / life / the world / mountain biking. If your outlook is limited by the bounds of what you can personally access and do, then your world is going to be pretty small. The enduring joy of reading magazines, novels, taking in photography, art etc, is arguably seeing the universe, familiar and not, through someone else's eyes.
A dull writer can make the most exciting experience seem mundane - an old climbing mate I used to call 'Ticklist Dave' was capable of making an epic struggle up the north face of the Eiger sound like a tedious stint in a supermarket check-out line - but a really good one can paint your familiar local trails in new, exciting colours. I'm not saying I don't want to read about amazing foreign destinations and trails, though personally I'm not particularly interested in 'resorts' - change my mind! - but what I really want from a mag is the world painted in Technicolour.
Of course that's both a very personal take and far easier said than done, but if you think back, the stuff that sticks with you is just that. Mike Ferrentino writing for Bike Magazine in his pomp, Steve Worland's measured, understated genius for describing bikes, in motion terms, The Collective etc. Anyway, this is way off topic and, also arguably way on topic, but it goes back to the point I made somewhere further up the page, that everything else aside, brilliant content is what makes a magazine, channel or whatever work and there's a lot more to that than the 'what' of what you cover.
I’ve thought about it a lot and decided a Crowdcube donation isn’t for me. But I do love the forum and I think I’ve had my moneys worth out of the lifetime sub I bought back in 2016 so I’ve taken out a digital bimonthly subscription. Now my alter ego can cancel and flounce if I feel the forum isn’t getting enough love ❤️
I was wondering what to do with my winter fuel payment - think I'll direct it to this!
this link is for our 502 club donation page. I’ll take the 502 branding off it shortly but it still works. I will propose that any donations will be treated like an investment as far as the Crowdcube perks go.
@Mark - did you change the branding or is that still the page we should use anyway?
What’s the beef with Guy Kesteven? He didn’t seem too complimentary about this idea. Weirdly, I’ve always thought he could be the missing piece of the jigsaw for STW content, he seems like a perfect fit for both written and video content for the STW demographic.
I do agree with some of the comments above though, this has been structured wrong. Anyone who thinks they’re getting any of their investment back, let alone making a profit, is bonkers!
As someone in the younger demographic around here (early 30s) but who’s been using the forum since getting into biking 11–12 years ago and admittedly grumpy beyond my years, I think the forum is the key to this place. I can’t say the website content has ever really engaged me much.
I do agree with some of the comments above though, this has been structured wrong. Anyone who thinks they’re getting any of their investment back, let alone making a profit, is bonkers!
Fair enough; for me the appeal is the idea of owning a small part of this site I've spent so much time on.
Unfortunately Crowdcube issues mean I can't, but I'll still donate I guess
@ogden, no beef here, I just couldn't help be typically childish. I do things my way with Patreon subs etc. Mark and Chipps do it their way with crowdfunding etc. Absolute kudos to them for keeping Singletrack going for so long in increasingly tough times and I'd much rather they survived than some of the slick schil set ups that populate this space.
GuyKes
Holy balls, I managed to summon @guykesteven 😂. Good job I was blowing your trumpet!
1 week to go before the campaign comes to an end. Big value investors are amazing but I’d just as much love hundreds of investors putting in small amounts. We have 60 investors currently. I’d love to see more, no matter the size of investment.
Getting close to our minimum target now. 89% there from 68 investors.
I don't know if it has already been mentioned above, but you have to wait 24 hours after signing up to Crowdcube before they let you make an investment. So if you are thinking about doing it, it might be worth signing up sooner rather than later, as the end date is getting near.
That's a good point to note for those not on the mailing list. I've been reminding recipients of that potential issue. The campaign ends at 23:59 on Tuesday. That means in order to get an investment in the system you need to be a registered Crowdcube user before the end of Monday. Even if you aren't sure if you wil invest or not, it's worth registering at Crowdcube sooner rather than later.
As an extra reassurance, once the campaign ends Crowdcube then runs a 4 day cooling off period where you can change your mind.
Right now we are at 78 investors and 95% of minimum target.
One other important point is that you can throw in as little as £10, which will get you 3 and a bit shares. I'd love to have as many investors as possible and if you put in £10 or £10k you are just as appreciated and just as welcome.
You need a big push on Friday what with it being payday! Go all Lings Cars on it!* 🤣🤣
(*I'm sad to see Lings Cars has been massively toned down though! ☹️ )