[Closed] It's ok to ride a hardtail…

MBR in over-generalisation shocker

What a load of bobbins.

That's one of the many reasons I stopped buying MBR and WMB years ago.

Are they that stuck for things to write.

Who came out with that rubbish? A hardtail is for paupers???? What even a Ti one??????

Are they that stuck for things to write.

What you have plucked as a quote is not actually untrue, is it? Over most terrain an FS bike will be faster, more comfortable and more accurate. Agreed the 'fun' aspect is a bit more subjective but there we go.

I read in one the other day that trail bikes must have bars at least 710mm wide, what for everyone? regardless of height and build etc? What (if like me) you find 685mm almost too wide? Full of crap imo.

I had a two year mountain bike magazine habit; at four quid a time, MBUK, MBR, Dirt and Singletrack put a bit of a hole in my not-that-deep pockets.

What was I thinking?

MBR does my nut in. I subscribed for years, but eventually got bored of the repetition and predictability of it. However, I've picked up the odd issue recently, and the pictures and layout are still pretty good, and it does inspire me to ride. It's the little nuggets of nonsense and over generalization like the one revealed above that puts me off re-subscribing.

it is deffo ok to ride a hardtail especially when it's a Cotic Soda.

thats why you should buy singletrack...

R.lepecha - Member
thats why you should buy singletrack...

Yup, my sub runs out in June.
After that, Singletrack.

I should subscribe to Singletrack too. I dont know why I keep holding back. Hmm. Must do it soon.

I go to WHSmiths an buy it instead.

They are right about the prices though, I would't be getting another full suspension bike now, if I need to buy a new bike.

I subscribed to MBR on a whim using some Tesco Club Card vouchers. I don't think I'd spend real money on it. The layout is good but content not so great. My Genesis Core 40's a great ride, real fun. Don't believe everything you read - the advertising man might be writing it.

I guess that's where singletrack and he forum come good 🙂

I've just binned my MBR sub; about half of each issue seems to have been in the preceding WMB, and vice versa, and tbh WMB seems better written.

I still look forward to ST more than either though.

Andy

Future Publishing are an evil corporate empire in thrall to design and technology standardisation and their advertisers.*

While that belief (honestly held based on the facts) may be subject to hyperbole , I find that those mags are full of shite, not in the sense of being factually incorrect, but more in terms of radding everything up to the gnarfest max or is that MBUK? I really can't tell.

Anyway a hardtail is something your dad rides and you definitely need 6" travel both ends to take on the Denture dude.

* to their credit they allow The Clinic forum to continue on cyclingnews but the chances of them getting sued are pretty slim IMO

MTB is s flow grassroots thing - support the little guy 🙂

cheers, thanks a lot 😆

I guess finding something new to say about bikes month in, month outs, must be a challenge. The sweeping statements do irritate though and I challenge anyone to ride the Monkey Trail with 760mm bars. 😀

Got an MBR sub ages ago for the free Giro helmet. Sick of reading predictable reviews along the lines of "here's another Specialized let's give it 10/10".

In the end I didn't even bother reading the mag, I just gave them away.

Full suss more fun to ride... Bollocks.

I've went from full sussers to a Cove hardtail, and wouldn't go back.

I'd be surprised if the hardtail recommended wasn't a specialized. I had a sub a couple of years ago and it became laughable that Spesh came top in all their reviews.

these magazines are produced to sell you things and feel inadequate about your self.

Nothing wrong with specialized bikes think they are very good!! My issue 😉 is just the next big thing I comfortable with my bikes they don't hold me back its my skill bottle fitness etc not the bike be that my HT or FS I've seen chaps on HTs clean stuff with real style and flow I can't get near on my FS for the reasons above! But I'm working on it!!

I like the travel parts thing like trans Wales yak attack, idiabike bc bike race the trans prov article was really good stw. Stw always had a great line in single page articles liked them. I hoped privateer would be less buy this and more ride here but first issue wasn't for me seen 2nd issue in lbs so might have a look....

Gave up MBR years ago, repetitive and boring with far too many adverts. Ride whatever bike suits your style and budget 🙂 put bar ends on riser bars on Cotic BFe 🙂 its about enjoyment after all and don`t become a slave to changeing fashions

Do people still ride hardtails then? Blimey 😯

Who [i]rides[/i] bikes anyway? Surely its just owning and talking endlessly about them on forums which is important.

I think their editorial is pretty clear. They aren't telling what to ride they are just telling you what will be faster. Full suss and wider bars will generally make you quicker. The instances where that is not true I believe are where people don't want it to be true especially where wider bars are concerned.

I may have an old copy of MBR in my garage where they claimed FS would never take off as HT are fine.

My pauper's bike cost over 4 grand FFS

[IMG] [/IMG]

[b]mtbfix[/b] What you have plucked as a quote is not actually untrue, is it? Over most terrain an FS bike will be faster, more comfortable and more accurate. Agreed the 'fun' aspect is a bit more subjective but there we go.

Do you think a £1000 full sus will always be faster than a £1000 hard tail over the same ground with the same rider? especially on sculpted trail centres which the average MBR rider probably uses it on?

So many people buy into the aspiational hype of MBR etc that "you must own so & so" or "this & that is no good."
Some people have full suss bikes for mild, barely "mountain" biking & will never use them to their full potential.
I don't like how hardtails are seen as an inferior and cheaper option.
There's some amazing HTs out there that will go anywhere like Cotic, Evil, Ragley, Dialled, Orange, Santa Cruz etc.
I've just spent close to £2400 on a hardtail, hardly a cheap option!

My pauper's bike cost over 4 grand FFS

Ah but it's only a plastic one. Could you not afford a metal one then? 😀

Do you think a £1000 full sus will always be faster than a £1000 hard tail over the same ground with the same rider?

Well, my very unscientific experiment with a £3k full-susser, v my £800 SS hardtail, revealed that while the FS was more comfy, it was also more sluggish out of corners and up hills. And from my limited observations, it's actually riders on hardtails that are often quicker than those on full sussers.

I'm sure I'd be quicker down lumpy downhill bits on a full susser, but have more 'fun'? Doubt it.

Bugger, just swapped all my running gear from my FS to my HT.

What was I thinking, back to the shed.

Jeeez

I was told today whilst out on the trails that riding FS was cheating. I suggested that FS was faster and was offered a race to prove it. Some people take riding bikes and what type of bike very seriously indeed it seems. I couldn't care less really. Perhaps I should have said I'm faster on FS which I know is true. Oh well.

So, did you win?

Didn't race and most likely wouldn't win either. 😀

was told today whilst out on the trails that riding FS was cheating

I'm probably not the best person to comment on this as most people overtake me, regardless of what they're riding.

I have noticed however that when people zoom off into the distance, the majority of people I see on FS bikes just seem to plough a straight line down the trail, regardless of what's in the way. From the back, it kind of looks like they're holding on for dear life! There are the odd exception to this and seeing someone ride a FS "properly" is educational.

A lot more people it seems on hard tails pick a line down the trail, and move around on the top of the bike a lot more too. It makes them look "better" riders. Whether that means they're going quicker or not I don't know.

I ride a hard tail as I don't like the bobbing you get on a FS and I can't really afford one.

hard tails pick a line down the trail

Took longer than normal for that to mentioned...

Just observing. 🙂

I really don't care what other people ride. I'm not good enough, or have enough experience to pass comment on which is better.

I love my trusty little hard tail, and I'm sure that whoever is riding whatever loves their bike too.

hard tails pick a line down the trail

I genuinely enjoy doing this when I'm riding my FS! But overall, I ride my HT more often.

Aren't these guys based in Croydon??

I believe so, with their sister publication Cycling weekly, which is actually okay if you like all things roadie, and their local trails are the Surrey hills.

mtbfix - Over most terrain an FS bike will be faster, more comfortable and more accurate.

Really?

What full suss would be faster than an XC hardtail up hills?

How is a full suss 'more accurate' than a hardtail?

I still remember the 'conclusive experiment that they did at a 24 hour race where they showed that the FS was whatever, 30s a lap quicker or something. Fair enough, not a bad experiment, but since WHEN do we choose our bikes based on 30s a lap saving here and there? What are we, roadies?

If that were true, why would people haul 40lb FR bikes to the top of big mountains...? Of course, we know why 🙂

What full suss would be faster than an XC hardtail up hills?

An XC full sus like this maybe:

[img] [/img]

Choice is a wonderful thing. I ride with folks who are quicker than me on hardtails, XC FS bikes and worst of all completly inappropriate 9 inch travel bikes with 2.7 " tyres - and the same people pass me whether I'm on a harsdtail or a FS bike.

I got outclassed going down Walna Scar last week by a younger quicker friend on a hardtail, and its not a lack of travel that is holding me back - its balls and skill. Strangely I was (slightly) quicker up the mountain on my Pitch than he was on his Ti On One - so go figure.

Which is better is an argument that will never be solved or resolved.

IMO I get more pleasure from a FS bike and that is why I do it. Just sold my Ragley mmmBop as for the riding I do the FS bike is quicker and more fun. Perhaps if a lived down in Sussex on the downs and not near the Lakes a hardtail would make more sense. But loose rocky climbs and vicious rocky descents mean that an FS bike is better for me.

In the real world all that counts is you the rider and what you want, as its your ride.

What full suss would be faster than an XC hardtail up hills?

molgrips - An XC full sus like this maybe:

Really? Why would that be? All that extra weight and bounce, what is that doing for climbing ability?

7hz - Member
Really? Why would that be? All that extra weight and bounce, what is that doing for climbing ability?

Better traction, ability to stay seated without constantly getting bucked out of the saddle etc.

Measure the grin factor not the width of the bars 😀

All that extra weight and bounce

Well that frame (at least my version of it) is 4.5lbs, so an extra 1.5lbs if we're being reasonable (yes I know there are lighter HT frames than 3lbs). Not outrageous. It doesn't bounce at all because it's only 2.5" travel and very well damped if you want it to be.

And as retro83 says it lets you keep the wheel on the ground more over rocks and roots etc, and reduces fatigue on longer races.

Don't knock it til you've tried it. Oh wait, what am I saying?!

😉

I tried a full suss once.

Felt like I was winching myself up the north face of the Eiger on a trampoline on the way up a normally easy (on a HT) hill, and may as well have been on a hovercraft on the way down.

Bum over the seat on a HT seems to do everything a FS does on the way up, I don't believe all that 'traction' talk, that's just fat lads with no skill trying to bump over everything!

Don't see the point in FS at all really 🙂 Not unless you are a DH racer.

I tried a full suss once.

Lol - once? So now you know what ALL FS are like? 🙂

Not only are there hundreds of FS out there all completely different, but it takes a loong time to understand what you've got and learn to get the most out of it.

Bike evaluating FAIL.

Don't see the point in FS at all really Not unless you are a DH racer.

Come on7hz your trolling now surely 😆

I have been riding my trusty P7 for the last 10 years and just before Christmas I bought myself a Zesty, my first FS bike. It is fantastic, it takes a lot of the sting out of the trail, the wheels are much more planted on the ground, I still pick my lines in the same way as I used to on the hardtail but now I can push faster through them.

I hear people talking about skill compensators but I haven't lost any of the skills I had on my HT, it just allows you to do more for longer. The bike feels more dynamic underneath me, I can feel it absorbing the little stuff and when I do happen to hit a larger bump it flows over it rather than bucking me out of the saddle. As I am getting back up to fitness I am noticing it more and more.

Hardtails are great bikes, so are full sussers. In fact, I might go so far as to say, I bloody loves 'em all. Why would MBR change my mind?

Come on7hz your trolling now surely

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Just not everyone's respect for holding it.....

Obviously on7hz was riding the wrong full-sus, wrongly set-up and didn't know how to ride it!

Now, I am now a man of huge experience, cos I went to my first trail centre on Saturday. I now see where MBR are coming from with their: 'full-sus is more fun, bars are narrow if less than 700mm, stems longer than 80mm are bargepoles' stance. Cos riding White's Level that stuff made complete sense.
However, other types of riding are available.

trail centres are not the most demanding of a full suspension bike.
rider. yes.
bike. no.

I still remember the 'conclusive experiment that they did at a 24 hour race where they showed that the FS was whatever, 30s a lap quicker or something. Fair enough, not a bad experiment, but since WHEN do we choose our bikes based on 30s a lap saving here and there? What are we, roadies?

[i]trail centres are not the most demanding of a full suspension bike.[/i]

As I said, I've only been to one. And though I would be fully prepared to enjoy riding my Handjob on White's Level I can assure you my 575 would be a lot more fun and most definitely faster.

I don't mind the mag, they're quite open and unsubtle about their madness and bias so it's easily dealt with (remember "The Orange 5's rims are too narrow and weak and not appropriate for this sort of bike or at this price. The brakes don't really work at all. And it's too expensive. 10/10, BIKE OF THE YEAR ZOMG!" or "We set the fork in the Inbred to 140mm, 10mm longer than it's warrantied for and 40mm longer than it's best at, and it didn't handle too well, the BB was high and the steering was slow. Therefore, we're marking it down and the P7 wins"

So yeah, a while back they decided hardtails sucked and reduced their coverage. The world kept buying hardtails. Now they've decided that THE HARDTAIL IS BACK!!1oNE! and the world will keep buying hardtails.

molgrips - Lol - once? So now you know what ALL FS are like?

Not only are there hundreds of FS out there all completely different, but it takes a loong time to understand what you've got and learn to get the most out of it.

Bike evaluating FAIL.

Yes I know 🙂 Still, at least I tried!

taxi25 - Come on7hz your trolling now surely

Just trying to balance out the thread. The sun does not shine out of FS pivot points 😉

DezB - Obviously on7hz was riding the wrong full-sus, wrongly set-up and didn't know how to ride it!

Probably. Just didn't get on with it, and didn't like how it felt. I'll take my hardtail 'fitness compensator' any day 🙂

I thought I wanted a FS several years ago having only owned and ridden HTs. I tried a Spesh FSR 120 (first of the newer generation of FSRs, this was what 2004-5) thinking it was the bike for me and I hated it - similar to 7hz. However I tried a Fisher Cake with the same amount of travel and absolutely loved it. Climbed like a scared squirrel!

When I had both, my Pace RC300 and that Cake, there were always climbs I could do on the 27lb Cake that I couldn't on the 20lb Pace. Usually the really rocky loose ones.

The Cake was not without its flaws though, but I loved it for its strengths.

I do however have a tendency to love things and people for their strengths rather than hate them for their weaknesses, mind 🙂

There’s a long list of things I dislike about most Mag’s, however the existence of MTB Mag’s (good or bad) is something I’m glad of, even the crap ones can kill a long flight.

And to be fair they probably are in decline these days what with the interweb and recessions, so recycled “on the cheap” features and un-researched sweeping statements help keep the cost of producing their rags down…

MBRs general point, although very badly made, still sort of stands, with less people feeling as flush, the odds are that a higher percentage of people buying new bikes will opt for the cost savings of a HT over the bouncy joy but higher relative costs of an FS… fair enough I suppose…

"here at MBR …we believe that a full suspension bike will take you further, faster and simply be more fun to ride.
But with prices on the rise it's becoming harder to get a full-susser."

What they actually said in MBR was:

"But with prices on the rise it's becoming harder to get on the full-sus wagon in the first place, so unless you are already on it or bought into it a few years ago, you might struggle to justify 2011 prices.

There are still a few compelling full-sus choices starting at around £1000-and many more beyond that magic, psychological price barrier-but what would have been a £1k wonder this time last year may well be a £1300 bike today. So might we see the re-emergence of the hardtail this year? After all, why spend up to £1000 buying into the bottom of the full-sus market when the same amount could get you a first-rate hardtail instead?