Is UK time trialling going to die a death?

Unfortunately, I think time trialling is fairly small print when it comes to the benefits and harms of 20mph zones.

Why is there evidently no problem in Scotland?

Why is there evidently no problem in Scotland?

sorry what do you mean? The ban includes Scottish courses as well

I've done a few local TTs in the past, on national speed limit road's.

I can't see any justification for running events through 20mph zones, or any areas used by pedestrians in general. Head down, TT helmets, high speed and TT bars don't mix with other users; or it would seem other bikes as they're not generally allowed in sportives.

Agree, they shouldn't be anywhere near pedestrians

TTing has been slowly dying for a number of years.

What should be incredibly simply becomes more and more complex every year. Excessive marshalling, excessive signage, excessive regulation. Still, tis just a sign of the times really.

They even cocked up the road bike TT category by not making it equivalent to BC legal.

I'm struggling to think of any  TT courses in Scotland that go through 20mph zones so it's not really going to be much of an issue here at least.

20mph zones tend to mean road ends, junctions, parked cars, pedestrian crossings etc so not IMO suitable for racing on.

Personally I do not think these should be on open roads at all.  Risks to the riders are real (although I guess you sign up for that)  and inconvenience to other road users as well

In the north of Scotland the time trials are run through British cycling not CTT. No doubt the same decision will be made by BC soon. It makes sense. I did see that highland council are reverting some 20mph back to 30 limits so that may save some courses.

Personally I do not think these should be on open roads at all.

The only reason that TT was ever big in the UK was a ban on mass start racng on public roads back in the day. Whilst I sometimes wonder at the sense of riding head down along your local trunk road, the demise of club TTs would be a bit of a loss to cycling, if not the broader community.

I don't think TTing is going to die completely but it will become more niche than it already is with fewer and fewer courses... This is also going to be a problem for road races that have courses that go through 20mph zones too.

Personally I do not think these should be on open roads at all. Risks to the riders are real (although I guess you sign up for that) and inconvenience to other road users as wel

Whether they should or shouldn't be, i don't see why TTers would WANT them to be. For example there's like Abingdon airfield near us that holds Crits etc.. That's where i'd be running the TT if it were me, massive wide open track, pretty flat, no traffic, that would be my preference as a rider.

I used to TT alot in the 90's and I can't think of any Cheshire/Lancashire courses that would be in a 20, or indeed anywhere near a built up residential zone. Ideally courses are no-where near lots of traffic etc, it just slows you down. 

It's pretty clear you shouldn't run a TT along a 20mph road for any substantial time, when the fastest riders will be averaging 30. So it depends how rigorous CTT want to get - if it's zero tolerance for even 1m of 20mph limit that would indeed be a disaster, but surely this is not what is being tabled?
Many of the safest and fastest (so most popular) DC courses have short sections of minor road start which could be affected - the R25 in S Wales, fastest 25 in the UK, is like this (although I believe it is currently out of action with long term roadworks). I did the national ten this year in Newcastle on a similar route, short one third of a mile onto a DC. And that's just short stuff, 12 and 24 hour TTs, which plenty of hardcore folk are still interested in riding, would be a nightmare to route.
I think you have to recognise that some of TT decline in popularity is regression to the mean, though. Nowhere on earth has a time-trial heritage like the UK, we are completely weird outliers. It's still incredibly popular, relatively speaking. But if you've grown up with that and experienced how numbers of riders and courses have declined then obviously that is a sad thing, and you'd want to try and do something about it.

As mentioned plenty of 20 mph zones round here. A regular course is round loch leven, there are hardly any pedestrians to be seen on that course and not many cars either. Most of the courses we ride are very quiet traffic wise, and feel no less dangerous than any other time out on the bike.  We don’t have the opportunity for using many circuits round here, there is knock hill and the local cycle track but I can’t see a tt on them being particularly appealing to anyone tbh

I should add that none of these 20mph stretches I’ve ridden on go though busy pedestrian areas. Which I agree would be a recipe for disaster. And likewise anyone who rides with their head down should be disqualified immediately. I genuinely don’t think  tt is any more dangerous for riders or pedestrians than any other form of road riding, 

that said, whilst a shame I can say I’m probably on the side of the CTT on this one purely as it’ll provide less ammunition to the anti cycling brigade 

In the north of Scotland the time trials are run through British cycling not CTT<br />

are you sure? We always enter our regional series though the CTT site and out club is affiliated to it. Either way you are right BC will likely follow suit. 

It’s pretty clear you shouldn’t run a TT along a 20mph road for any substantial time, when the fastest riders will be averaging 30. So it depends how rigorous CTT want to get – if it’s zero tolerance for even 1m of 20mph limit that would indeed be a disaster, but surely this is not what is being tabled?<br />

think that’s what is being proposed. The courses I’m referring to have short sections, many that you wouldn’t even be doing 20 mph in (uphill, 30 yards before a 130 degree turn etc etc) which rule out the entire route 

I’d personally like to see a little discretion allocated to the organizers. As you say, clearly doing 30 mph through a town isn’t appropriate 

Surely a 20 zone is no different to a 30 zone, did folk worry about what speed a TT might be doing thru a 30 previously?

inconvenience to other road users

Does this apply to all cycling or only when people are trying to go fast?

Surely a 20 zone is no different to a 30 zone, did folk worry about what speed a TT might be doing thru a 30 previously?<br />

it’s a fair point actually, although I think it’s fair to say that most courses with 30 zones would have very few riders actually hitting 30 mph through them, at least that’s true of the ones I ride. Certainly whilst I regularly hit 30 mph on a tt bike,  I can’t think of any points I’m doing it in a 30 zone. Pretty much the entire field are averaging over 20, even on a sporting course however

Does this apply to all cycling or only when people are trying to go fast?<br />

indeed, a very odd thing to say. Ignoring the 20 mph issue for a moment why am I, on a tt bike, causing any more inconvenience than any other cyclist on the road?

Personally I do not think these should be on open roads at all. Risks to the riders are real (although I guess you sign up for that) and inconvenience to other road users as wel<br />Whether they should or shouldn’t be, i don’t see why TTers would WANT them to be. For example there’s like Abingdon airfield near us that holds Crits etc.. That’s where i’d be running the TT if it were me, massive wide open track, pretty flat, no traffic, that would be my preference as a rider.

Can't think of anything worse.
I've done a TT at Croft motor racing circuit and multiple laps is boring. The course is boring with every corner bar the complex being flat out and the complex does not require slowing much. It is really well attended and should be applauded for this as it gives an entry point for anyone from 4year olds upwards.

Our clubs "10ish" evening series course is engaging and tricky to pace due to the terrain.
I don't do and our club stopped promoting dual carriageway TTs years ago. Barring the Xmas Day one which used a section dual but it was Xmas Day and it has lights on now so is no use.

It's not just TTs though.

A village near here runs the 70 year old Victor Berlemont Trophy Road Race.

It used to be 120 miles, via 7 laps, and 7 times up a reasonably steep hill.

This year, due to the 20mphs on the routes, it's changed.

The new 20mph limits in Woodcote & Goring mean we have to use the shorter course without Flint Hill. 

To me, that's a shame. Less climb, less distance, devalued course.

indeed, a very odd thing to say. Ignoring the 20 mph issue for a moment why am I, on a tt bike, causing any more inconvenience than any other cyclist on the road?

Because you are head down flat out not giving way to others and there is a person doing this every minute (???) for however long it takes the TT to pass.
Say someone like me is going for a pootle along the same road.  Every minute I am going to be passed by someone who will not slow and pause to make it a safe overtake but will just blast past on corners, when cars are coming the other way etc etc
Maybe its just a theoretical issue rather than real?
I guess my opinion is coloured by multiple occasions of club runs / chain gangs behaving appallingly on the road.  I have been forced off the road by folks racing on open roads and on cyclepaths.  I almost crashed into a marshal once that was trying to guide me into a food stop or something.  He was standing in the middle of the cycle path and tried to make me go into an area that the racers were going into when I was just out for a spin and wouldn't get out of my way.
I do not think any racing should occur on open roads - cycling, driving or running

Its not just the one person tho is it?  Its multiple folk

Personally I do not think these should be on open roads at all. Risks to the riders are real (although I guess you sign up for that) and inconvenience to other road users as well

If there were more closed circuits, they'd be used - but they are few and far between, and cost money that a relatively small participation sport can't afford. But TTs are no riskier than any other road ride, and less inconvenient to have cyclists at 20-30mph than 10-20.

You can't run an open road event where riders are going faster than a speed limit that has been set for the safety of all, that's just Rule #1. I can see some argument for local discretion if the speed will be below 20mph due to it going uphill, but it's going to have to be very steep to guarantee no one turns up on the night and smashes it. Imagine turning away the National TT champ but allowing all the club regulars out on a course....

Because you are head down flat out not giving way to others

Normal rules of the road apply and marshalls are there at junctions to stop (or disqualify) riders who are breaking them. Which makes us very unpopular with the head down, brain out brigade.

Entry numbers are down so I do reckon TT events are on their way out... certainly in Scotland, just not picking up much after the pandemic.

~Fair enough more cash but having been on the receiving end of really bad behaviour from racers on the road and on cyclepaths / canal towpath - (yes the rat runners were racing on canal towpaths in a chaingang)  as well as awful behaviour from club cyclists in a bunch on the road

How is marshalling going to stop the overtaking of other cyclists in unsafe places?  Again not TTers but I have had this happen to me more than once - with no warning .  Just blasting past on bends.

Its just my opinion.  I do not think open roads are the right place for any sort of racing

Other opinions are available

Tj, I’m afraid you are talking absolute nonsense

If we pass you we’d give plenty of room, and likely far safer and more space given than being overtaken by a car. Likewise Going over the line on a corner is instant disqualification, which is rigorously enforced. Hence why it’s very much a theoretical problem

I can guarantee pretty much any time you ride your bike on the road you are more of an inconvenience to other road users than me on my tt bike, maybe we should ban all cycling in town to not inconvenience the queue of folks behind you. And whilst at it ban pootling around in the countryside to avoid a queue of cars traveling at 15 mph behind you..

...no time trials can be held on routes with 20 mph limits. Whilst the speed limits don’t apply to cyclists...

Don't they?

tpbiker
I am talking from real experience of things that have actually happened to me.  I have had bunches passing me within inches on corners.  I have been run off the road by folk racing in inappropriate places.  MY expeierince of club and racing cyclists is uniformly negative<br /><br />You know how strongly I defend riders rights normally.

Likewise Going over the line on a corner is instant disqualification,

great - so on left hander when I am within a foot of the centre of the road  how are you going to pass?  Is every inch of the route marshalled?

also if I have more than a car or two behind me and no safe place to pass I will stop to let them past

PCA - nope - speed limits do not apply to bicycles

~Fair enough more cash but having been on the receiving end of really bad behaviour from racers on the road and on cyclepaths / canal towpath – (yes the rat runners were racing on canal towpaths in a chaingang) as well as awful behaviour from club cyclists in a bunch on the road

Because you are head down flat out not giving way to others and there is a person doing this every minute (???) for however long it takes the TT to pass.

Tell me you have never time trialed without telling me you have never time trialed/don't appear to have a clear grasp of what a time trial is.

I've spent more time held up by old people pootling to the shops than I have by these menace time trailers.

Let's ban them

great – so on left hander when I am within a foot of the centre of the road

Eh ?

I am talking from real experience of things that have actually happened to me<br />

but by your own admission these aren’t time trialists. They are just idiots on bikes in other disciplines 

Only accidents I can remember hearing of involving tt events on open roads is when a rider is hit by a car, usually from behind by a driver not paying attention . It’s not the competitors that are dangerous 

Does this apply to hillclimbs run under CTT? Because that will make course selection a PITA as they're far more likely to be in a village, and far less likely to be doing >20mph.

Whether they should or shouldn’t be, i don’t see why TTers would WANT them to be. For example there’s like Abingdon airfield near us that holds Crits etc.. That’s where i’d be running the TT if it were me, massive wide open track, pretty flat, no traffic, that would be my preference as a rider.

Whilst I can see your rationale, why not just go the whole way and transfer to track individual pursuit / time trial if you're going to remove any of the variables like hills, crosswinds, etc, etc by just running out and back down a runway?

TT'ing in its essence is riding a road-ish bike on roads from A to B* as quickly as possible, something else isn't a "TT".

*yes B is typically within a few hundred meters of A and the route approximately circular for logistical reasons.

great – so on left hander when I am within a foot of the centre of the road how are you going to pass? Is every inch of the route marshalled?

This seems like a bit of a hypothetical stretch, TT bikes handle like nothing else, because no one else would put up with the way they handle. If you're having to take the corners as wide as possible, they're probably braking for them too.

But on the 2nd point, yes for an open TT marshals would be watching the dangerous corners/roundabouts etc and people are regularly DQ'd.

Im taking the corner wide for visibility not speed.  The road position that gives you most visibility and allows cars to see you for the greatest distance is out near the centre line on left handers as you enter the corner

Im taking the corner wide for visibility not speed. The road position that gives you most visibility and allows cars to see you for the greatest distance is out near the centre line on left handers as you enter the corner

Yeah I'll be going up the inside of you if your riding slowly and obstructively on a signed open course tt event.

Probably get disqualified but it'd be the safest place to pass a rolling road block

but by your own admission these aren’t time trialists. They are just idiots on bikes in other disciplines

so IME club riders ride like idiots, the rat run racers rode like idiots but you tell me TTers never do?

Ok

I think there maybe two things here.  I see ERC out on the roads of east lothian and they have a well deserved reputation for inconsiderate riding and also if you are used to riding in bunches a foot of space seems plenty whereas if you are not its really unpleasant to have a bunch come past a foot from your bar end

1.5 m passing room?

Ive given my reasons and remember I usually am very supportive of riders rights.  Ij ust do not believe any racing on open roads in any form is appropriate

Other opinions are available

Trailrat - or you could obey the highway code and wait until its safe to pass?  You make my point for me.  Your need for speed trumps my safety. 

This is also going to be a problem for road races that have courses that go through 20mph zones too.

For a road race to be legal it would have a TRO (Traffic Restriction Order) in place, either for rolling road closures or phased closures round the route. As part of that TRO speed limits are suspended. It's part of the regs that came in to allow road racing for cars a few years ago. Sportives will have issues with public perception though, despite them not being races and speed limits not being legally enforceable for bicycles.

funnily enough, in 5 years of tt riding I’ve so far managed to avoid a collision with another cyclist bimbling along on the middle white line, corner or otherwise..

Either I’ve been exceptionally lucky, have tremendous road awareness and bike handling skills, or perhaps most likely, folks don’t tend to ride like that round here

if the powers that be think that driving through an area at 30mph is no longer safe, it seems fair that riding a fast bike quickly through the same area, at maximum effort, probably not fully aware and probably not covering the brakes is also deemed unsafe. I don't have any issues with this - there's plenty of loops which wouldn't cross a 20 limit, so can just run on one of those instead

tpbiker
Free Member
funnily enough, in 5 years of tt riding I’ve so far managed to avoid a collision with another cyclist bimbling along on the middle white line, corner or otherwise..

Either I’ve been exceptionally lucky, have tremendous road awareness and bike handling skills, or perhaps most likely, folks don’t tend to ride like that round here

I think it's just TJ that rides like that 🙂

I see ERC out on the roads of east lothian and they have a well deserved reputation for inconsiderate riding and also if you are used to riding in bunches a foot of space seems plenty whereas if you are not its really unpleasant to have a bunch come past a foot from your bar end<br />

so surely you should be arguing for general bunch riding being banned on open roads? <br /><br />

Your need for speed trumps my safety.

Ride like a plonker ona. Signposted* TT course win stupid prizes.

Lucky in 20 years of doing tt I've never come up behind a member of the public riding like they are in the isle of man tt on a Honda cub90

*Every entrance to the course and junction gets a sign in an event officiated by a regulatory body. Everything else isn't a time trial - no matter how much other cyclists using your road not time trialing enranges you

Whilst I largely agree with that, i personally don’t think other road users should have to alter their own behaviour because there is a race on. The signs are there to warn them to look out for riders and take care, nothing more

that said,  tj’s road positioning certainly isn’t the norm in my exp!

if the powers that be think that driving through an area at 30mph is no longer safe, it seems fair that riding a fast bike quickly through the same area, at maximum effort, probably not fully aware and probably not covering the brakes is also deemed unsafe.

How are we defining 'safe'? 

Is there the same likelihood of an accident? Maybe. 

Is it likely to lead to the same outcome? No. 

the optics of racing through 20 mph zones...

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this. 

However, we need to be very careful not to reinforce the idea that a bicycle is somehow equal to 2 tonnes of mechanically propelled metal.

When focusing on the 'optics' we often do exactly that.

They're not even nearly the same thing and should never be treated as such. 

tj’s road positioning certainly isn’t the norm in my exp!

if the powers that be think that driving through an area at 30mph is no longer safe, it seems fair that riding a fast bike quickly through the same area, at maximum effort, probably not fully aware and probably not covering the brakes is also deemed unsafe. I don’t have any issues with this – there’s plenty of loops which wouldn’t cross a 20 limit, so can just run on one of those instead

It's harder than you would think to get a good TT course - like aren't there roads everywhere on this island? But many have been lost over the years (including the hands-down fastest ten course outside Hull) without being replaced. Part of the issue is a deeply engrained distaste for non-standard distances (ie if your weekly club TT was a flat 11.5 miles no one would ride it).

Would be interesting to see if this extended to Triathlon which could arguably have more impact due to numbers of participants. I guess there you’ve got the added issue of draft busters having to navigate the course and not being able to exceed the limits. Plus the added headache of having to keep bike routes near water which limits route options.

If it extended to triathlon they could surely just dismount and run with the bike through the 20mph bits!😂

Part of the issue is a deeply engrained distaste for non-standard distances (ie if your weekly club TT was a flat 11.5 miles no one would ride it).

indeed! I kind of get that though as half the fun of a tt is racing against your own best time. Everyone wants to have a fastest 10 or 25. No one ever asks what your best 11.5 mile time was!

one thing I didn’t realise is that the Ctt have very specific rules about where a course needs to start and end. So you can’t just pick a random ten miles of road then cycle back to the start when you’ve finished. The start and end point need to be within a certain distance of each other. Also, I don’t think right turns onto main roads are allowed, or maybe that’s just best practice and not an actual rule 

Part of the issue is a deeply engrained distaste for non-standard distances (ie if your weekly club TT was a flat 11.5 miles no one would ride it).

Ours is 8.73miles or something. Get 15 on a poor night and 30 on a good night. Averages out in the low 20s. Pretty universal that everyone loves (hates?) the course. We run it as a 2 lap open event and get plenty of praise for a "fun" course from outsiders and it gets decent numbers. 70+ mid pandemic and yes less since but that's everywhere.

Main issue with our TT organising the last 2 years is we get maybe 15 entries with 3 days to closing of entries. Then talk of cancelling happens then without advertising the fact we are contemplating this we end up at 50ish.

I do not think any racing should occur on open roads – cycling, driving or running<br /><br />

TJ I have some sympathy for your position BUT I’m not convinced that the inconvenience to other road users argument stacks up.  As a motorist I’ve never been affected by the local TT more than say happening to leave at the same time as the club run, some old duffer on a tandem, the local farmer moving some hay or one of the many local “gala day floats” moving around.   But there is a closed road cycle event here and if you want to get people upset about being inconvenienced or even put in harms way - that’s where you go!  I’ve spend plenty of time being delayed by closed road cycle routes, marathons/10ks etc.  Ban TTs and you should probably expect more closed road events - and expect non competing cyclists to be blocked from using those highways too!

That said I’ve no issue with saying no TTs through 20mph zones.  If it would be impossible to exceed 20mph on a bike anyway then it might be justifiable (but probably a shit route) with sufficient marshalling but i don’t think pedestrians should need to guess if the bike is riding normally or focussed on a time (although - does Strava mean 90% of riders are TT racing every time they go out?).  Same is probably true for runners - how would you decide if I am racing or just training alongside someone else?

Do you think if there were more club interest and cycling culture around sporting TTs on hilly or simply nicer, less lethal-looking courses there would be greater participation? OK it's not what road racers want and it's not purist TT, I do see the appeal in simple sporting 10s and 25s on courses where a regular bike is competitive / suitable.

The focus on lowest absolute times, £££ for aero gear and riding busy roads makes it a fairly niche cycling culture though.

Do you think if there were more club interest and cycling culture around sporting TTs on hilly or simply nicer, less lethal-looking courses there would be greater participation?

If there was a reasonably priced and local to me "interesting" course, I might give it a go. Under no illusions that I would still be rubbish but a course that has an element of bike handling and pacing your efforts for hills etc. would be of interest.

Of course prioritising the "give it a go" people over the people who are committed and invested is a sure fire way to kill a sport long term.

I do see the appeal in simple sporting 10s and 25s on courses where a regular bike is competitive / suitable.

CTT (and many cycle clubs that organise TTs) have tried to widen the inclusion a bit by having "open" categories (ie for any road bike).

Ironically, this new rule comes after CTT began to get very reluctant about using the really fast (dual carriageway) courses for safety reasons. What might have been acceptable 20+ years ago with a lot less traffic is not really an option now and, as more roads, housing developments etc are built, the number of suitable courses get fewer and fewer.

Same thing in road racing to a certain extent. What was a great course for 20 years can be ruined as soon as a new shopping centre or housing development is built and there's simply no cycling culture in this country for anyone to understand why 60 people want to come and bomb around those roads for 2-3 hours on a Sunday morning.

^ maybe there's more have-a-go types and part of what's making TTing so niche is a committed, invested and slightly wacky image? I wouldn't suggest prioritising the sporting 10s etc, just make more of that side of it if sporting 10s may be a way into it for some / many. It's just a step on from strava segments isn't it? I expect some clubs already do it well.

part of what’s making TTing so niche is a committed, invested and slightly wacky image?

They became A Thing back on the 50's/60's when bunch road racing was banned so to sort of get around that, TTs were put on using codes for courses and all a bit hush-hush. The idea being that you could smash out a 25 at 6am and everyone would be gone before the local police woke up.

So it stayed a very niche, very closed culture for decades. And the problem with that is it's very difficult to attract new participants, especially if there's a perceived barrier to entry such as all the aero kit.

I've only ever ridden two and I hated both of them with a passion. 😂

Most of our courses round here are on fairly quiet roads, and a few I’d describe as ‘sporting’. Certainly where I am we tend to avoid DC courses (although ironically the only one I ride feels about the safest course I ride due to it being reasonably quiet, 2 lanes and dead straight)

the issue is that 20 mph zones will impact the ‘fun courses’ rather than the unappealing drag strips hardened testers seem to like. We have all kinds of abilities giving our courses a go, on all kinds of bikes, as you say it’s really just a step up from chasing a Strava time. None of these folks would contemplate a DC course, understandably 

DC courses are way safer than country roads ime (with 1 or 2 notable exceptions) - clear lines of sight, spacious, usually better surface, no one pulling out on you, no one taking their pet steam engine out for a spin at 7mph (a Cheshire thing), no elderly gentlemen riding in the middle of the road at a snail's pace - the list goes on.

That's different to the perception of safety. If you were curious about testing and saw a bunch of riders head down on the A590 as your reference point, then that doesn't look like an accessible sport. But reality is that no form of bike racing is more accessible than time-trialling - any bike, any day of the week, no argy bargy, low entry fees etc.

That’s different to the perception of safety. If you were curious about testing and saw a bunch of riders head down on the A590 as your reference point, then that doesn’t look like an accessible sport. But reality is that no form of bike racing is more accessible than time-trialling – any bike, any day of the week, no argy bargy, low entry fees etc.<br />

100 % agree with all of that. First time I rode a DC course I was pretty apprehensive, but in reality it felt like I had an entire lane to myself

and you are bang in about the accessibility of tt’s. If you want to win one you need to have all the kit and superb fitness (I have the former, not the latter), but for everyone else you are just riding against yourself so in reality the bike you have is irrelevant.I’ve seen folks rock up on ancient steel bikes, fixies and tandems to give them a go. It’s also imo far safer than racing in a bunch. There is no way that many of the folks that turn up to our tt’s would consider a bunch race, so it’ll be a real shame if this form of competition disappears 

If you want to win one you need to have all the kit and superb fitness (I have the former, not the latter), but for everyone else you are just riding against yourself so in reality the bike you have is irrelevant.

Many years ago, I was at an evening 10 (supporting a mate, not racing!) - just a basic club level thing, £3 entry fee type of affair - and a guy turned up on a fully blinged out Tour level TT bike.
He got about 20m off the start line when both his 19mm tubular tyres exploded with loud bangs, maybe the result of punctures on the shitty road surface, maybe just having super narrow tyres at 150psi wasn't a great idea, who knows.

He went mad, ranting and raving that they were top of the range tyres and how dare the organisers use such a shit course. Everyone else (mostly folk just there on their normal road bikes, some with clip-on TT bars, a few fixies etc) looked on bemused at his antics.

On my TT tricycle, I'm definitely racing myself. On my TT bike, I'm racing the field. Time trialling is accessible as you can want. Ride anything in a local club race. They messed up the road bike category, sadly, but will likely come around. A bigger development is the use of statistical methods to score results using data (SpinData). This means that points can be allocated based on ANY race rather than just a time for a standard 10 (I hate 10's, too short, too much pfaff, too expensive in travel, and I'm too slow!). That would allow for points for sporting courses and any other course to incorporated in to a ranking.

Personally, I'm upset at suggestions to remove the 12h from the British Best All Rounder (BBAR) because long distance TT'ing is really struggling due to organisation, volunteers, road works, apathy. And it's by far my best discipline. As a rule I like my race time to be some multiple of my travel time and not vice versa 😀

The results need to move away from the fasted time for a fixed distance to fastest speed for the course and not worry about the distance. Also the need to have the start and finish so close to each other needs to be removed.

I LOVED time trialling. Contrary to @TiRed 10s were my favorite, fast and furious with a little bit of sick.

I stopped a few years ago, 2017. I was doing very well, often winning club events, and coming in top few positions on the local opens.

I had a minimal budget though, all my gear was a bit sh!t, older generation TT bike, disc wheel cover things that clipped on etc etc. And I felt, maybe wrongly, I couldn't get any further up against the guys on the £000k bikes and deep pockets - the aero arms race!!

But, overall it was/is fantastic fun. Hard to beat the feeling on a summers eve and being on the TT bike, legs feeling agreeable and absolutley flying along. I am actually looking for a TT bike again, I've been considering getting back into it.

I don't think TTing is going anywhere, it's niche but well loved.

the aero arms race!!

indeed it is. I’m putting out ten percent less power now than in 2019 when I was on an old Planet X stealth with rock hard tubs, yet I’m going way faster. Im now on a bike that’s probably as good as anything on the world tour and it’s undoubtedly faster, but having a ceramic speed jockey cage and fancy aero bars save a few watts only. The things that make the most difference is your position on the bike and the power you can put out in that position. I see so many folks turn up on fancy pants machines and are still not particularly fast as their positions are visibly terrible

for some people, part of the appeal is the tech element, and ability to eek out every last second from your own personal abilities . For others however, they are happy to just do better than they did last week. That’s the beauty of tt’ing imo.

ultimatly however, my kit might move me up a few places in the regional races, but I’m still not troubling the podium. I’ll win a few club races, but the position in those isn’t important, it’s all about the time

but having a ceramic speed jockey cage

Placebo effect 😉 . Tech is all part of the game. Why train when you can buy speed? Same thing in all sports where technology plays a role. My stepfather shoots at a high level. Tech kit upgrades are all the rage there too. Not to mention the testing of the batches of bullets for competition use. That sport also has an issue with median competitor age. And an organisation like the CTT running it.

I'm still after the trike 12h record before Adam Duggleby puts it on the shelf for good. Maybe next year I'll treat myself to a session in a wind tunnel. In the meantime it's field testing (hence "Tester" is not derogatory), to hone position and helmet. Then buy the fastest skin suit, and pump the tyres hardish (21c on three Hed3's).

I don’t think TTing is going anywhere, it’s niche but well loved.

On the one hand numbers are down massively - 45% I read over just the past few years. So the CTT would be completely remiss if it wasn't trying to tackle this as an urgent matter.

OTOH, surely it's still the most popular form of bike racing in the UK by numbers? Just massive numbers of events to choose from compared to other disciplines. There's like one monthly XC MTB series in the NW of England. TTing will always have unique advantages for race organisation.

I think the days of any road club laying on a ten and having 10+ riders show up, just on basic principle, are probably at an end. Some clubs near me are doing fantastic for numbers but they have plenty of testers and make a real effort with advertising, results etc. If you're not making that effort then participation will die off, as you can't rely on that big road club culture just to carry things any more.

TT is becoming niche - and unlike other road riding you need a special, expensive, bike to be at the sharp end of any racing. If the road bike category allows massive advantage on the right kit.  We have a road bike category in the NE, it was a thing before it was done by CTT. It worked reasonably well. I had a good go in 2019 (won the category that year). I've never bothered to get in to TT properly largely down to  cost and the fact the bike isn't much use outside of competition.<br /><br />I don't know if anyone answered the Q but you can bunch race on 20mph roads. I think because the roads are closed. In RR and TT even a 40mph limit can be broken easily in the right circumstance. I know when I've been told as a convoy driver that the speed limits still apply and you need to get a gap on the main bunch if the speed limit drops as they can catch you very quickly.<br /><br />I actually think TT has the most chance of surviving long term. It doesn't require anywhere near the effort of other events to organise and likely won't be banned or shunned by police and councils. There will be a place for the club 10 and 25 on a weeknight. I still do the odd one to see if I've got "it" (I haven't 🙁 ). There are plenty like me who would to a point, just ride to compete against themselves. <br /><br />Again this may depend on where you live. In the NE we have options. In Surrey things may be a little different in terms of road choice and traffic. <br /><br /><br />

Hope not! I’m a time trialler!

There’s as many of us on roadies as well as aero bikes now and it’s torture at the time but feel so good after…. Ours is actually a 60mph limit that is a bit scary tbh as it’s the road to the motorway so sounds like ours will remain.

if I’m honest I’d be fine as my average speed is usually 19.5mph so I’d be under the limit 😂

Have the antis seen a TT?  There's no more disruption to other road users than any of us riding a bike.  I guess these anti types don't like motorist being slowed down by cyclists in general.

It's not easy setting up a TT, even a club one.  Apart from RA work you can now longer have new turn in the road courses so you need a roundabout with its attendant dangers or a circuit course.. CTT and Bc wonder why TTs are struggling. Sod all to do with fancy bikes .

The idea that you need a fancy bike is twaddle .  Go to any club TT midweek where we all start out and it will will be mostly road bikes.  Damn site cheaper than MTB racing to start .

And I felt, maybe wrongly, I couldn’t get any further up against the guys on the £000k bikes and deep pockets – the aero arms race!!

When it started getting properly silly i just moved to only doing sporting courses, so i have loads of good results in non-standard distances or mildly lumpy (and properly lumpy) courses, just ridden on my road bike with (maybe) a set of silly light wheels and taking a bottle cage (or two) off.

Only problem comes if you try and get into something popular, top 3 in a 22 mile sporting course with 1000ft of climbing isn't as highly respected as scraping into the top 20 in a fast 25...

The suggestion that starts and ends should be far apart is daft. Just how do you get back to your car? Ride. Just what you want when you are tasting blood.  You would need a starter and a finisher plus the pusher. The clubs I know rely on people riding out for a chat to do it all. Out and back's are the least hassle and most fun and the evening 10 is the easiest way into virtually any sport . My Tt bike, an ancient Cervelo cost 280 quid. i occasionally ride the trike, the pre WW2 fixed, my new in 83 Raleigh and the Chinerello Dogshite.Doubt there's a grands worth in the lot. AT 60 I'M still trying to beat my mates.

TTs will die if normal folk don't come out on whatever bike they've got, and try and beat their time from last week.

And if they don't sort a rota for marshalls, starters and timekeepers.