[Closed] Is time trialing the most horrible form of cycling..

Hill climbs are worse.

ie will i turn up and stand silently on my own whilst folks mentally prepare themselves for punishment, then pack up straight after and go home

thats all some people want

unless you are part of a road club it won't be particularly welcoming or fun.

In reality will it be 25 min of pure misery (probably more)?

unless you are part of a road club it won't be particularly welcoming or fun.

🙄 😆

Yeah, Club hill climbs with ritual humiliation thrown in for a larf...

Can’t beat it.

You are right. You’ll be on the edge of the limited ‘banter’ and then it’ll hurt so much you’ll puke. And then finish 73rd, behind wrinkled old men.

My road club is primarily a TT club. I've done a handful evening club ones on sporting courses, refuse to do A road ones, they're a good way of pushing yourself, definitely not enjoyable whilst doing but get a buzz afterwards. Anyway those who are fully in to the TT scene spend their summer driving to laybys around the region, they seem to enjoy it though and there is a good community.

they might talk to you

... as they overtake

(I've done 2 - actually quite good "fun")

I do love a ride up and down a dual carriageway though..

In reality will it be 25 min of pure misery (probably more)?

Yes. It's brilliant!

Join the club and get to know people. Most of them will be taking the piss out of their mates or trying to avoid being first off, not warming up on rollers. Stay and chat afterwards. Evening 10's can be fun in a way.

It’ll only be 25 minutes of misery if you're fitter than 99% of mountain bikers.

Hill climbs are pretty social. You all hang around for an hour and do 4 minutes of cycling. Plenty of time to chat and cheer others on.

TTs are equally good in my experience. People are soical afterwards, most of ours involve tea nad cake afterwards while the results are calculated and prizes given. Short ones normally have a group riding back to various towns as well.

I did one once (a club 10). It was awful and I hated every single second of it.

Basically got talked into it by one of the guys in the club who picked me up at stupid o clock in the morning and drove me down to a windswept section of wet A-road somewhere in Kent. Weather was shit, I'd got a clip-on set of tri-bars on loan from another club member that were uncomfortable, I had no idea of pacing or anything.

The weather was so bad I raced in my windproof jacket to the absolute horror of everyone else there - they were all in skinsuits.

All I remember of the day was everything being shit - the weather, the course, the Little Chef breakfast afterwards - and me being stone dead last and getting a puncture more or less as I fell across the finishing line a shivering wreck.

That was about 20 years ago and I swore then I'd never do another one. I've stuck with that vow!

Nothing can be as bad as a turbo session.

You forgot the joy of juggernauts passing by you on "fast courses". I've time trialled a bit but I always prefer a road races. Lots of banter, more happening and probably more suited to me anyway.

Hmmm.. Not particularly selling it..

Hill climbs will be avoided at all cost.. The length of suffering is less but the thought of the pain I use to go through when trying to set pbs up my local hill still haunts me..

The most depressing thing is I remember getting a top 10 time on a local hill (kirkgate) a few years ago on Strava and now I'm about 40th.. It took me about 3.40.. The record is now around 2.30. Just shows how much off the pace of even a good club cyclist I was.. Even at my fittest.

Why would anyone choose to do this when there is mountain biking to be had instead? Weirdos.

Conversely, I always liked hill climbs, partly I suppose because I was good at them (club champion one year!).

Nice relaxed ride out there, hang round for a bit, few minutes of pain then it's over. Always a huge turnout too so loads of people clapping and cheering which helped.

Unlike TT where there'd be no-one around!

Rubber_Buccaneer -
I do love a ride up and down a dual carriageway though.

Saw one a few weeks back on a section of the A3(M). How much fun that must be, with cars and lorries flying past at 80+mph. Looked in my mirror after passing a few and some cars weren't even giving them a full lane. Joys.

simondbarnes - Member
Hill climbs are worse

At least they’re over quickly!

Our local summer series is hilly TTs. Around the Elan Valley.

Best of both worlds. A TT. Some proper hills.

First one I did I got overtaken by my minute man.....well....it was a 13 year old lad, and his mum! He was allowed to ride if escorted by a parent. They both passed me!

And the local 60+ age groupers are many minutes quicker than me.

Have I sold it to you yet?

There is tea and cake and banter at the shop afterwards tho.

The mouth puke mid hill climb, combined with the bile throw up at the top FTW.

And falling off because you can’t unclip..

Love em’

If you want wind suck from Artics try the A19 TT ... 😯

A 26 ish minute FTP test in traffic. Done 1,cant see me doing another one any time soon

Are we still taking about biking as a fun activity? 😀

There is actually a bit of sick at the back of my throat just reading some of the above testimonials! 🙁

I've really enjoyed TT-ing this year as threshold prep for CX. Then again, I find MTB-ing boring, so what do I know... 🙂

I enjoy TTs 🙂 plenty of chat at HQ once you get to know people. I prefer the non dual carriageway courses for the most part and this year mainly focussed on a spoco series (came 3rd in the end).

DezB - the A3 one happens EVERY week and the ****s that organise it are some of the biggest and most ignorant arseholes going.
There’s been regular accidents and incidents due to them yet nothing has been done about it.
The odd occasion maybe but when it’s every single Wednesday then it can no longer be considered to not be “an organised event” and as such such have road controls, etc in place for everyone’s safety.

Yes plus you are giving bicycle riders an even worse name by selfishly clogging up dual carriageways.
Yes I'm referring to the A3 also.

Did one over 25 years ago. I was a youth at the time and only had a mountain bike but turned in a mid pack time.

This road club were lucky enough to have their own club house but it turned out that there was this thing of not speaking to anyone with a faster time unless they spoke to you first so the tables became little time based cliques.

Then found that anyone slower than me didn't want to know because I'd beaten them on a mountain bike.

I've never done one since and have no time for any sort of club scene.

Type 2 fun. Horrendous whilst you're doing it. Hilarious once you've crossed the line and seen others in a similar state 😆

I guess all clubs are different but the ones near me have been very friendly and welcoming to potential new members.

Give it a go, a couple of times, you might enjoy it, you might even improve your times 🙂

I've ridden the a3 tt' s ten and twenty fives, good well run events and well signed and marshalled. The organisers a3crg are nice people. I always thought it quite a safe course. Having run a tt when there was a crash with an ambulance attending, two riders touching wheels in a two up tt and one falling off and getting minor cuts the paperwork from that alone was a mare so the idea that nothing happens is imho incorrect. Best stay off all roads to avoid clogging them up eh old talent.

I did one on a normal road bike years ago 25.48 a year later I did another one 25.47...should have kept going I would have been a contender by the time I reached 450 years old!!

A local road club seem obsessed with the A78; TT and TT training on the dualled section all summer, then have their Saturday run on the tightest section of it, to a dreary cafe and back.

They all look [i]really[/i] happy....

Misery, yes. Socialble, generally no.

Any enjoyment is usually retrospective.

I think TiRed has the right idea doing the Hillingdon ones. I can see the enjoyment there.

I chose the wettest evening of the year to try one on the A4. Folk were friendly but generally hiding in their cars from the weather.

If I ever lose enough weight that my body shrinks, I may do some more but as long as my CdA is similar to a small lorry, I'll stick to bunch racing 🙂

If you don't like TTs then I suggest you steer well clear of triathlons then because even a sprint distance is a 25K TT sandwiched between a 750m swim and a 5K run.

Personally I think cyclocross is one of the hardest things I have done on a bike.

Some people are more chatty than others. Its no more or less sociable than any other discipline, where people turn up and get to know people. Those that turn up more often tend to know more people, it's not necessarily clique-y, but everything can seem like that first time you turn up.

Its 25 minutes of pain on your own, but afterwards you know you couldn't have ridden any/much faster - all in your control, rather than say a road race where it often comes down to people hanging on during the race but then winning the sprint.

You will wonder why the f... you're doing it about 5 minutes in, but after half way you'll be focussed on getting to the end and you get a real sense of satisfaction.

Depends if you like competing against yourself

Too late this year, but get yourself along to your local club evening TT series next season. You'll find lots of people ready to offer advice, and you can try out time trialling in a more relaxed atmosphere, without getting involved in riding dual carriageway drag strips.
Sporting courses are a more interesting challenge, and the scenery is better!

A lot of people get hooked on TTs as a personal challenge, even if they are not challenging for the overall positions. You'll also find lots of wee battles going on between regulars who are closely matched, and enjoy trying to beat their mates by a few seconds each week.

Ignore the macho nonsense about suffering and being sick. That's not what it is about. TTing is hard, but when you get flow on a road bike, it's a wonderful state.

The other downside of time trialling is it's probably one discipline where it is about the bike, and the helmet and the skin suit and the overshoes etc, etc.

And looking like an alien cross breed human banana.

Fun though and our local club loves it.

The other downside of time trialling is it's probably one discipline where it is about the bike, and the helmet and the skin suit and the overshoes etc, etc.

If you are starting out, I reckon you can get 95% of the advantages without spending lots of money. You don't need to spend a fortune to get tri bars, an aero helmet and a skinsuit. If you get serious, you can move on to fancy wheels,TT specific frames, etc, but that stuff is really marginal improvements.

If you are starting out, I reckon you can get 95% of the advantages without spending lots of money. You don't need to spend a fortune to get tri bars, an aero helmet and a skinsuit. If you get serious, you can move on to fancy wheels,TT specific frames, etc, but that stuff is really marginal improvements.

I agree but the point I was making is the people of my acquintance that get into purely TT usually reach a performance plateau based on fitness. To go faster you need to resort to technology to reduce wind resistance. Most people I know that are into TT eventually go the whole hog which is why I never really bothered other than triathlon where I use my normal road bike with tri bars.

The other downside of time trialling is it's probably one discipline where it is about the bike, and the helmet and the skin suit and the overshoes etc, etc.

With regards to better equipment making you faster.. Is that any different than what mountain bikers do..?

Or do folks just buy the latest 5k enduro bikes because they look nice..

Actually don't answer that..

Time Trials?

I've been dabbling in them for the past 2 summers (road bike with clip-on bars and DIY positioning by experiment) and they provoke a range of emotions in me.

I "enjoy" (get some satisfaction) from pushing myself for the duration, but find my lack of speed and a lack of improvement this year [b]extremely frustrating[/b] and post-ride I am often disappointed. I look forward to doing them, though.

I'm a reasonably fit & strong 40 year old man, but get beaten by skinny, small boys and old, rotund men.

The people who are best at it appear to tend towards the introverted, have excellent mental focus and are not easily distracted.

I've found the scene to be quite social. The TTs I've done were run by my own club and other local clubs and I got chatting to people before and after the events.

There is some staggeringly expensive kit for TT. I suspect that I would rapidly see diminishing returns from any investment in a properly fitting bike of more than about £1000.

Some people take it very seriously and focus all of their training efforts on the TT season. It doesn't interest my enough to do that.

I'm in two minds about next year: Either buy a used TT-specific bike, having a proper fitting, train and concentrate on it more next year or just sack it off and do 5K, 10K & trail/fell running races instead.....

I've found crits to be the most difficult/horrible thing. Especially as I spend most of them on my own...
CX races said to be the toughest hour on a bike, would take it over a crit anyday (not saying it's easy obvs)
Hillclimbs brutal but over quicker and I quite like them.
Nothing compares to running a 5k flat out though imo

My 12hr TT was the best ride of the year. The atmosphere is unbelievable. Can't wait for the next one!

By contrast an open 10 is nothing but misery for me. Hill climbs are even worse.

Crits are hard and I get little results wise. Road races are more strategic.

I've only done 3 TTs in my life and all were our club 5 miler, plus a couple of hill climbs. I thought I'd hate them but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed them. I'm not fit and, despite getting a PB this year, was last (everyone else got a PB too!).

I find them incredibly social, but that's because our club makes them a social event. The nervous anticipation beforehand, the ride out to the start line, the jokey chatter as each rider is counted off the line, then a bit of grub and a pint afterwards. My family even came to watch this year, which really made it an event. I also like the year-on-year quest to improve my time.

I'd never get totally into it because I really don't fancy wasting valuable riding time driving around the country to these events, which often take place on busy main roads. Our local 5 miler suits me.

There is some staggeringly expensive kit for TT. I suspect that I would rapidly see diminishing returns from any investment in a properly fitting bike of more than about £1000.

You can put together a pretty decent setup for a fairly modest budget, especially if you trawl the classifieds (check out places like timetriallingforum.) What costs the money these days (at least at the pointier end of the field) is aero testing. You'll likely find more watts spending 500 quid on aero testing than you will spending 500 quid on kit or slogging away at the training for months.

You'll likely find more watts spending 500 quid on[s] aero testing [/s] [b]getting a decent coach [/b]than you will spending 500 quid on kit or slogging away at the training for months.

I've only done a few TT style rides this year, where I've come so close to my random aim of doing 20mph average over 10-30 miles. The front end on my Cube road bike is huge, it's taller than my Wazoo, hardly the epitome of great aero! 😆

I'd choose just over 10mins from the start of Oxenbourne Lane to the top of Harvesting Lane any day, as part of a ~27min "Round Butser" loop and then throw in Old Winchester and the White Way etc. for good measure. 😈

big_n_daft - Member
You'll likely find more watts spending 500 quid [s]on aero testing [/s]getting a decent coach than you will spending 500 quid on kit or slogging away at the training for months.

That is also true. Though you'll still likely go faster after 500 quid on half a day of aero testing than you will after 500 quid on 5 months of decent coaching.

The regular club TT is a social event, anything up to a dozen of us plus time-keeper/pusher-off turn up, have a bit of banter and chase each other round the course, then retire to the pub. Open events are a bit more serious though still basically friendly IME.

Sadists. Also must be extremely boring. **** that for fun. They should also bin them from grand tours.

I know I bang on about aero a bit but I just found this that I posted a while back on another thread...

[img] [/img]

Taking a rider weight of around 75kg, going from a "poor" CdA of 0.23 (and despite some aero testing and being lighter, I'm still not that far below this 🙁 ) to a "good" CdA of 0.20... making some assumptions about rolling resistance and drivetrain losses, ideal course... riding at 300W, a poor CdA will give you 43.12kph and a good CdA will give you 45kph. For a 10 that'll take you from about a 22:20 to a 21:30. To go as fast with a poor CdA you'd need about an extra 36W (or 12%) more power to make up those 50 seconds.

The faster you go the greater (in terms of watts) a small drop in CdA becomes. Given the example above, with a "poor" CdA, to go from 20:30 to sub 20 you need to go from around 380W to 410W. So 40W for an extra 30 seconds (as opposed to about 60s at the slower speed). Or you could just get a similar result by reducing your CdA to 0.212 (around the "average" mark.)

Btw, don't ever attempt to discuss this sort of stuff with anyone outside a specific thread on this topic on a cycling forum 🙂

Edit... the point of all that being, once you get pretty good at time trialling and have good legs then the gains are mostly in aero testing. Small aero gains are equivalent to big power gains. And one is a lot more achievable than the other. I could work my arse off over winter and maybe find only 10 watts which I could probably find quite easily in a single AeroCoach session. Not saying you shouldn't do both, but if you can afford several sessions a year then it can reap big gains.

I’ve found the TTS I’ve been to very friendly and far more relaxed than crits/races. Probably something to do with not really racing each other.

Shame I don’t really enjoy the process of TTing though. Too much intrinsic motivation required.

"The race of truth" is the race of aerodynamic kit and positioning and many hours on the turbo trainer.

OP you bought those £££ wheels for extra speed but you're not a tester?

Please tell me you do road racing?

My 12hr TT was the best ride of the year. The atmosphere is unbelievable. Can't wait for the next one!

By contrast an open 10 is nothing but misery for me.

Yeah pretty much this. Though I think I like 25s less than 10s.

Top 20 in next year's BBAR is my objective for next year. Of course I now need to ride a 50 and a 100 as well. But I seem better suited to endurance. So we shall see. I'm also contemplating the (ulp) 24hr too.

Quite like a 25, but there is always a period where I lose focus. Won the club ten-and-a-bit series this season but only really enjoyed one of the 10 I rode!

MrBlobby, aren't there devices similar to a powerpod that now give you live CdA data? Surely that's got to be an even better investment than wind tunnel time?

I accidentally watched a GTN video about the bikes at Kona earlier and was struck by the innovation! I know they aren't covered by silly old fashioned rules but still, those guys have thought of everything!

"I could work my arse off over winter and maybe find only 10 watts which I could probably find quite easily in a single AeroCoach session. "

This. 10W is a helmet change, you can try 5 helmets easily and still have another 7-10 runs left. Imagine the ballache of trying to do your own helmet testing (which hardly anyone can actually do as people just dont know enough about statistics and error margins), ordering helmets, sending them back, selling them, scrounging. It;s just a massive pita.

My CdA was already pretty good at 0.200 but Xav saved me another decent chunk and then I didn't change my position for a whole season, which is the real win. You see people constantly fettling, buying new stuff, not knowing what has made them faster or slower. Knowing what your CdA is for sure and then not worrying about it means you can get on with enjoying the racing.

Aerodynamics >> training .

Of course both is better, but being aero means I can ride my MTB instead of training

Shameless Opportunist link to my ad - TT bike, extra set Carbon 50mm Tubular wheels, tyres etc, little used due to illness. Note price drop from original price, will take a bit under £700
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/felt-b16-triathlon-bike-with-extra-set-superb-carbon-tubular-wheels

MrBlobby, aren't there devices similar to a powerpod that now give you live CdA data? Surely that's got to be an even better investment than wind tunnel time?

Once you've got a decent baseline then you're often looking at very small changes (head position, hand position, stuff like that) that can equate to maybe two or three watts, and with testing in a velodrome or tunnel you can evaluate stuff like that. From what I've read the PowerPod outdoors just isn't sensitive enough for that sort of work. They are worth doing though as you get half a dozen of those little changes and you've found 20 watts.