[Closed] Is this freehub fit for purpose?

Just file or sandpaper the rough bits off and get the new cassette on there.

ali freehubs innit. Was going to say it'll be reet (my DT hubs look pretty chewed up) but then I noticed the splines are milled down the middle to save weight, hmm not a whole lot of ali there huh?

wish hub makers would start putting steel reinforcing strips in [url= ]like AC do[/url] (I assume they actually work, don't own an AC myself)

Reason I took the Ultegra off was because the chain was slipping in the middle gears... coincidence?

...Reason I took the Ultegra off was because the chain was slipping in the middle gears... coincidence?...

No. Your middle range is slipping because it's worn because you use them most, as shown by the concentration of pressure marks on your free hub body.

It's fine.

Also, anyone caught saying "fit for purpose" should be shot.

The gears are slipping because your cassette is worn. When you put the new cassette on, if it jiggles about a load then your freehub is worn. They all wear and are designed to be replaced.
However, it'll take a lot more and I'm sure it's fine.

wish hub makers would start putting steel reinforcing strips in like AC do (I assume they actually work, don't own an AC myself)

Patented IIRC.

You can diy it by filing down one spline and fitting a strip of steel, large staples flattened out work well I believe. Should only need one to help. But might be hard with milled out splines.

[i]anyone caught saying "fit for purpose" should be shot.[/i]

Got the phrase from same lbs that gave the Hope freehub advice 😉

Have now made the sram fit, it's nice n tight. Gears seem ok (will test properly on commute tomorrow)
Thanks for the advice all. Appreciated 🙂

The largest sprockets tend not to cause damage because they're in a block of three (10s) with a larger surface area. It's the individual ones that do it

Bit obvious that timba. 😉

[i]It's fine[/i]

It was 🙂

ps. SRAM 1070 cassette bargain on [url= http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/sram-pg1070-10-speed-cassette-11-23t-id53942.html ]Jejames.[/url]

If the purpose is looking weird, your hub is extremely fit for purpose.

No wonder its cheap, 23 as biggest cog is far too manly for me!

jivehoneyjive - Member
If the purpose is looking weird, your hub is extremely fit for purpose.

As, I'm sure, are you 😉

[img] [/img]

As, I'm sure, are you

Perhaps, but at least my nipples are in the right place...

Bit obvious that timba

Alright! Who was it? Who told me it'll be ok?
2 months later the freehub is completely knackered. Chain just snapped miles from anywhere and found that the cassette was wobbling all over the place. Lock-ring is tight. Supposed to be an £800 set of wheels. Bloody rubbish. (As for those DT Swiss skewers, also shite)

found that the cassette was wobbling all over the place. Lock-ring is tight

sounds more like a spacer is missing so the cassette is not being clamped up right.

have you managed to get the lockring off? Have the cogs completely eaten through the splines?

Got a 240 and 440 rear hub, got same markings as in your original pic but seem to be lasting ok (don't want to check now)

[i]sounds more like a spacer is missing so the cassette is not being clamped up right.[/i]

Why would that take 2 months to show itself?

[i]have you managed to get the lockring off? [/i]

Not yet, have to wait til I get home.
It's not the same issue - it's the internals that have died now.

By the way D0nk - How often do you check the skewers are tight?

It's not the same issue - it's the internals that have died now.

I was assuming based from your OP and complaining at someone telling you to use it that you thought the problem was due to the cassette biting into the splines. Of course the freehub could have cracked. With the addition of that information it sounds like its the freehub wobbling not the cassette on the freehub.

Understandable. But no, I was referring to my line "fit for purpose", which it clearly wasn't !

If the internals have gone it's more likely you have a one-off (hopefully). All the mechanical parts are basically out of a 240s, which has a pretty good reputation for reliability.

The freehub does just pull off so is it possible you've wobbled it loose a bit checking the cassette for play? Are the cassette sprockets moving relative to each other or is it the whole thing moving relative to the hub?

[i]Are the cassette sprockets moving relative to each other or is it the whole thing moving relative to the hub?[/i]

This, I reckon. Will see for sure later.

By the way D0nk - How often do you check the skewers are tight?

Had my fingers burnt with lightweight QRs in the past... I say fingers, but other parts tend to suffer aswell tbh.

[i]I use shimano QRs[/i]

Yeah, back to Mavics for me - the DT Swiss ones actually come loose. Great design.

In that case, assuming no major material failure in the hub, my best guesses are that either the whole freehub assembly is sitting slightly loose on the axle or somewhere (either in the freehub or the main hub shell) you have 1 or more loose bearings

File the burrs down

Fit cassette

Torque lockring

Ride and forget

@PJM1974 - 2 months out of date advice.

So, herein lies the made of cheese problem.
The cover (?) has worn into an oval shape, so no longer holds the freehub parallel.
Can't work out why this has happened, apart from the whole thing being too soft
[img] [/img]

That's just an end cap - it doesn't support the free hub body. Just pull the free hub off and check the bearings - they must be pretty goosed for there to be enough movement to damage the endcap like that.

Once you've established what's gone wrong then feel free to rant about it, but at the moment it's all aimless guesswork.

Ignore that advice as aimless guesswork is what STW is all about

Is it the spokes?

Agree with s.o.m

Right, so the movement caused the wear on the endcap, rather than vice-versa. Ok...

1.Grasp how things work
2.Understand what has gone wrong/failed/worn
3.Pass judgement on its design and suitability for its intended porpoise.
.
Or go straight to 3 and shout lots.

I actually had the chance to talk about the chewed up ally freehub thing with someone from DT Swiss as it was a whinge I also had.

His response was simply that so long as the cassette lockring was tight enough (shimano specify 40nms, which is pretty damn tight) it will never be problem as the cassette will move as one without any one cog applying enough pressure to cut into the freehub. DT have apparently tested this issue multiple times both in the testing facility and with athletes and the only way they can replicate this freehub damage is with a locking that isn't properly tight.

I also asked why they didn't offer a steel freehub option, his answer was along the lines of 'we did, for ten years, nobody bought them and we had to bin thousands of them when we moved factory."

So that answers that.

Nice one Rorschach. So, Mr Smartarse, apart from the worn cap, before I'd taken off the freehub and seen the below, where I have I failed to understand that this item is not fit to be part of a bicycle wheel?

I've had 4 sets of Mavic road wheels last until the rims are worn down and not had to look at a freehub (apart from a drop of mineral oil in the occasionally).

This wheel isn't even 6 months old, not had masses of use and it's ****ed. So what should I have done to prevent this?

[img] [/img]

Free hub bearings can wear out/collapse. Happened to a mate of mine's Hope Pro2 Evo recently. Was very evident due to the play shown at the cassette. He stopped riding it and fixed it before damaging other parts.

The play you described and the secondary damage to the end cap suggest that yours was far worse and would have been obvious when riding (metal on metal contact, and deformation of metal tends not to be silent).

What you should have done is stopped riding it and fixed it rather than waiting for further damage to be caused.

The part that has failed is a bearing or pair of bearings. The free hub that you've ranted about twice is fine in spite of your lack of mechanical empathy.

BTW - a pair of bearings in there and ideally a new end cap and it'll be good to go.

I've got a few pairs of DT 240 and 350 hubs and never had a bearing fail, so I think you've been unlucky (and shouty). 😉

Not many road hubs have carriers like XT so the individual sprockets dig in. It creates problems when you try and remove cassettes but I'm always found filing the burr meant it was fine.

You may have been unlucky, one reason companies offer warranty is because in the numbers they make components, occasionally one will get through that is defective.

For hope this normally means a quick email/phone call and it gets sorted.

Lots of people use aluminium alloys on freehub, it saves weight but is flawed in my opinion.

105 upwards all run alloy carriers. Hatter covers the damage issue up there ^^^

where I have I failed to understand that this item is not fit to be part of a bicycle wheel?

The fact that something has broken (without knowing how or why) does not make it unfit for purpose.
A warranty claim,probably (there is a difference).
I like to think of my arse as shapely,rather than being smart but I appreciate the compliment all the same.

Taking all the viewpoints on board - I stick by this: A freehub containing bearings that disintegrate after less than 6 months is not fit for purpose.

The bearing may have being faulty and failed early but can't see how that makes the design or spec of the hub "not fit for purpose "
That's what a warranty is for , but that cassette must have been wobbly as heck before the the failure you finally noticed

Many of us use the 240 hub and have sold many more with very very few issues.

[i] but that cassette must have been wobbly as heck[/i]
Wasn't when I changed cassette 2 months ago.
Chain was slipping slightly on the ride before the chain snapped. No other evidence until that. I'm not in the habit of removing my wheels and checking the freehub for play every few months.
But then I'm obviously not as mechanically empathetic as the clever folk on STW.
It's so good that you guys are out there with your friendly advice.

I do agree with you the bearing should have lasted longer and will hopfuly be treated as a warranty job by who ever supplied the wheels. Just surprised that the gears still worked and the wobble was not evident that's all

Oh and avoid Useing the not fit for purpose phrase at least to begine with if you do go down the warranty route

This wheel isn't even 6 months old, not had masses of use and it's ****. So what should I have done to prevent this?

My 440 bearings lasted ok - front are still on originals ~10years on (not massive miles tho and mainly dry ones), got the 240 2nd hand I fitted new bearings (iirc same as the 440s) haven't really run them long enough to comment.

Looks like poor sealing. I've seen an xtr hub damaged by one (very very wet mtb) ride.

How much wet riding?

[i]How much wet riding?[/i]

Hardly any. I reckon it's 1000 dry miles on that wheel max. I don't commute on proper wet days, so it can only have seen 30 miles or so of rain.

I'll contact CRC, see if they'll replace the freehub under warranty.
Supposedly a £900 set of wheels that. Fortunately, I paid far less.

[i]that is properly shit. But as others have said is probably a shockingly bad bearing failure rather than freehub specific.[/i]

Agree with this

I think Shimano Hubs come from the factory with not enough grease on them (this I'd say about stuff like XT hubs from experience) I always pull them apart and shove loads in, Doesn't help you now, but with a new set of bearings and some grease, it'll last ages...(probably)

Hope you get it sorted.

Supposedly a £900 set of wheels that

if they're appreciating at £100/day i'd keep hold of em.

1000 miles in 6 months is not insignificant use - and as has been said, if anything, it's just a warranty claim on bearings, nothing to do with "not fit for purpose". In an old job, I actually went on some extensive training with Trading Standards, and they told us about the sad fact that every man and his dog now tries to use that to force a retailer's hand. All a retailer/brand has to do is demonstrate ratio of units sold to failure/return is decent and it would be laughed out the door. DT have sold hundreds of thousands of these units. If they were unfit for purpose, the internet would be awash with rumours/horror stories/"don't buy DT" posts.

Given you also mention that it was fine when you checked it 2 months ago, any "not fit for purpose" claim would be shot down in seconds as insufficient regular checks (suggest at least bi-weekly given mileage stated) haven't been carried out by the owner. To frame this, I do lots less mileage than you, but check all bolts front to back on the bike every single week.

I'd suggest the approach to take is a [b]friendly[/b] call to CRC, be nice, be matey, explain to them the bearing has collapsed after only 6 months and can they help you out if you email them some pictures. Get all shouty/demanding, you'll likely get your absolute minimum you are entitled to, which given lack of regular checks will likely be sweet FA.

[i]Doesn't help you now, but with a new set of bearings and some grease, it'll last ages...(probably)

Hope you get it sorted.[/i]

Cheers Nick. maybe I'm being unreasonable in expecting Mavic reliability from other wheelsets...

[i]if they're appreciating at £100/day i'd keep hold of em.[/i]
Wooosh.. ❓

Bizarre! Never seen anything like it, especially when you consider that the hub is six months old.

Hope you get it fixed, OP.

@andyrm - I have no intention to be "shouty" with CRC - (they don't make the wheel for a start!). I wasn't actually being "shouty" on the forum, it's all good humoured, which I guess doesn't come across in reading stuff.

I said "not fit.." 2 months ago in finding that the aluminium was too soft and the cassette splines had already damaged it. I then find a few months later that the internal bearings are shagged! Therefore I still stand by it not being fit for purpose! ie. the materials used in manufacture do not stand up to the item's intended use (if this does not describe FFP, then I've used the wrong terminology). I'm not mentioning FFP to the supplier when I ask for a new freehub under warranty. 🙂

That is unacceptably short life, I'd assume a faulty bearing

But also, you must have all the mechanical sympathy and awareness of a railway sleeper.

Thanks for another "I'm much cleverer than yow" post Northwind. Much needed.

It's not cleverness or otherwise, it's just awareness. That bearing was ****ed some time ago, and you've been riding on grinding metal. I don't mean to be nasty, but you need to pay attention to your bike, or it'll hurt you. Or get someone else to do it, for safety's sake.

Hmm, maybe I'm mechanically inept, but your reading skills don't appear to be up to much.

I've read all your posts, I don't see anything that contradicts what I'm saying. Next time it could be something that leaves you lying in the road, but feel free to ignore friendly advice and rage against DT.

Tough call, its hard to tell if there would have been any signs of the impending destruction in use, but it beggars belief the state of some of the bikewe see at work.

[i]its hard to tell if there would have been any signs of the impending destruction in use[/i]

There may have been, if I'd regularly checked the cassette for movement before riding. I'm not in the habit of doing this, because I haven't had this issue before! As said previously: [i]Chain was slipping slightly on the ride before the chain snapped. No other evidence until that.[/i] 2 months ago when I changed cassette it was fine.

[i]it beggars belief the state of some of the bikes we see at work.[/i]

this wouldn't be one of those! (Not quite anyway). I've only just put brand spanking new bar tape on 😉

I'm surprised you couldn't hear it though!

Nope, sounded pretty normal. On the ride back, after the broken chain, I couldn't freewheel, as it was turning with the wheel and taking the tension out of the chain. Before snappage, it was fine! Honest!

I'm not familiar with the hubs so am likely totally wrong in this but...

In your op, is that a grease port (torx bolt betwixt spokes)? If it is the hub looks mighty dry so may need using more.

Also there looks to me to be a gap round the bottom of the freehub, where there should be a seal (or the freehub has lifted slightly when removing the stuck cassette)

If I'm not totally wrong in the first case you'll have had water ingres (what do you clean the bike with, anything which would have degreased your bearings?)
In the second the bearings won't have been loaded properly and may have moved in their seat which won't help life.

Not that this helps now - and unless it's the cassette removal dislodging the freehub it shouldn't have happened - but if I'm not totally mistaken things to bear in mind on replacement.

Alright! Who was it? Who told me it'll be ok?
2 months later the freehub is completely knackered. Chain just snapped miles from anywhere and found that the cassette was wobbling all over the place. Lock-ring is tight. Supposed to be an [b]£800[/b] set of wheels. Bloody rubbish. (As for those DT Swiss skewers, also shite)

There, y'are. I'll stop now though as your sense of humour seems to be on the backburner for now.

Ah, right. I checked the rrp and it was actually £900!

[i]In your op, is that a grease port (torx bolt betwixt spokes)? If it is the hub looks mighty dry so may need using more.[/i]
[url= https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Support/WHEELS/DT-Swiss-Wheels-TRICON-Technical-Manual ]Manual[/url] doesn't mention this. It does say:
[b]Due to the separation of the hub body and the hub flange the bearing seat can be hold stressless. The result is a smooth running and a long life cycle of the bearings.[/b] 🙂

[i]Also there looks to me to be a gap round the bottom of the freehub, where there should be a seal (or the freehub has lifted slightly when removing the stuck cassette)[/i]

No gap, but even if there was the installation of the new cassette would have resolved this.

No jet washing has occurred. Not much cleaning really. Certainly no GT85 (or similar) into the freehub area.

[i]things to bear in mind on replacement.[/i]
Yep, cheers.

a long life cycle [as recorded by our in house fruit fly]

FTFY

1000 miles in 6 months is not insignificant use

(suggest at least bi-weekly given mileage stated)

[i]My hope rear has done ~5000miles[/i]

Indeed... the cheapo Aksium wheel I had a couple of bikes ago has done well over that and is still smooth as when new.