[Closed] Is there a reason not to buy one of the old new Pine Mountains?

i too thought they were like the Alpkit Frontier - an odd hub spacing.

I may be wrong.

If its this one https://www.marinbikes.com/gb/bike-archive/bikes/2016-pine-mountain-1
then I cant see anything about funny hub standards, but I also recall something odd about them

Were these the ones that had a fork recall?

My mate's got one of the original ones. They did cost £750 when they first came out. The fork had a recall and the new fork had tape wrapped round the bottom of the blades with a couple of stripes to identify that it was the "new fork" The rear spacing is odd. 141 by 9mm QR. Apart from that a capable bike for the money.

You need to ask yourself who else makes Boost width hubs with 9mm QR fittings (and the extended skewers you'd also need). Would you be buying it for future upgrade potential, or just as a cheap bike in its own right? I was tempted back when they first came out (as I was by the Frontier) but decided the potential futureproofing problems weren't worth it. At £500, though, that decision isn't as clearcut - where are they selling at that price?

We have a fleet of them at work. We’re never going to upgrade them so the weird hubs don’t bother me. They’ve all had the fork upgrade too.
They are a really fun, if a little heavy, bike on woody singletrack. They really remind me of my original mountain bikes from the early 90s but with brakes that work and massive tyres.
Stock tyres are terrible in the mud but everything else just works.

If you need a large I'd just get this: https://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m15b185s1112p23787/Mountain_Bikes/650b_Plus_27_5+_Mountain_Bikes/GENESIS_Longitude_2017/RS_GB/86030

Isn't the Fargo a wierd combo of 100mm front and boost rear!

OP a Genesis Longitude frameset would meet your bike packing criteria. Also comes with the front fork mounted cages.

Edit: to slow.

I have one, wrecked the gears so running it SS. Great fun in the local woods, but it is a bit heavy. I added a simple t-mars dropper which helps to throw it about. Hub spacings are a bit weird, but they have been fine so not looking to change them. Wheels and tyres went up tubeless ok. Tyres I think are pretty good, but I tend to work with what I have rather than swap tyres constantly so don't have much to compare them too.
The steel fork is over 2kg so I have just got a 29er carbon fork and in the process of going down to 2.8" tyres that will fit in.

Thanks for the responses all. The upgradability of it does slightly worry me. I've never seen a 141mm qr length anywhere. I really wanted a decent bikepacker that I can do some serious trips on this summer. I would much prefer to build one from the frame up, as almost all of the completes come with bits that won't really last, unless you pay an extortionate amount. And shame to hear it's that heavy, that really doesn't sound good!

The Genesis Longitude does look fantastic, but the problem is I find the ETT too long. I was looking for something at about 570mm with a slightly more relaxed geometry for all day riding. I have a Moonlander which is so perfectly comfortable, but its tyre size is too overkill. On the other hand I have a Krampus, but at 585mm I find it to be too agressive a ride and very uncomfortable. I'm 5'5" and have them both in a small.

I can't seem to find anything with a relaxed geometry, 650b plus and steel at a reasonable price. It's really frustrating! There is the Kona Unit, which is availible as a frameset from Jenson USA for ~$600 hmmm. But then it's sold as a bike for £600 here, but that's SS. But the dropouts are replaceable. But the parts look terrible!

Hope pro 4 boost hubs work with their standard qr end caps to make qr 141, i imagine similar applies to a few manufacturers.

The mk1's (2016) got moaned about for being short in the TT, not sure how true that is really, but 2017 versions were 'sorted' apparently, so if you're looking at mk1's, it might help your desire for shorter TT's 🙂

Nice looking bikes!

I find the same with my Pugsley. It is really comfortable for all day riding, day after day. I can't find anything to rival it.

Expensive compared to longitudes and Marins I know, but I'm thinking of an Ogre with 650b+. I would ride a large but I recon the small is in your range ETT wide. I guess you will have considered this though and it isn't a cheap option. I would swap the stuff over from my Troll which is a good bike - but I want bigger wider wheels.

My only query really is whether I should go straight for an ECR and that I don't know if I like the dropouts with fiddly extra bits to slip in to make my Rohloff work on it.... That's two queries I guess.

@cp, wow I am very tempted in that case! Should I go for it?! My other concern is, does it really look like a bike you can put thousands of miles on around the world?

@gowerboy

You really get what I mean. Maybe I should just give the Mainlander a go? It's fine for short trips, e.g. 60 miles, but I worry at how feasible it is doing longer ones on it.

Funny you mention the Ogre, I had an ECR, which I would expect is similar to the Ogre in the sense of it's build and stiffness, and I found it ridiculously overbuilt. It felt completely dead and the ride was horrid unloaded. I sold the frame and ended up transferring all my stuff to a Krampus, which has a much livelier ride, but like I mentioned the geometry just doesn't work for me. I worry the Ogre would be similarly overbuilt and dead to ride.

I would and did buy the pinnacle ramin 3 plus but alas that's aluminium frame steel forks

[quote=officerfriendly ]@cp, wow I am very tempted in that case! Should I go for it?! My other concern is, does it really look like a bike you can put thousands of miles on around the world?

Don't take this as a dig at you, but are you really going to be doing "[i]thousands of miles around the world[/i]" on it? I only ask because lots of folk make purchasing decisions based no some dream that will never happen rather than for what they will actually end up doing and so make the wrong decisions.

Classics;

Stick with 26" wheels because they are stronger and you can get spares even in remotest Africa

It must be steel because anyone can weld that up if it breaks.

or in another way...

It must have 180mm of travel so that I can do the Megavalanche on it.

I'm sure you get my drift 🙂

@firestarter I definitely don't want the aluminium frame!

Scotroutes, it's lovely to hear from you! I'm not sure if you remember me, but I definitely remember you.

I definitely see what you are saying. I finish college this year and have a long long break before I start uni, which I'm already looking at routes for. I'm honestly really excited. I'm hoping to find some group rides, but foregoing that, I'll just find some routes to do on my own. I don't know about thousands, but I definitely plan on doing a good few hundred!

* waves *

I never forget an (officer)friendly face 🙂

Yeah, good to hear you are still biking and that you have plans. As always, if your travels take you to the Scottish Highlands, let me know and I'll share/show you some nice bikepacking-friendly routes.

I think they are around 30lbs off the shelf so they aren't 'too' bad but it is quite a lot for a rigid bike, and a lot of that is in the forks. I think the Alpkit wheels would fit with their adapters.
If you went Hope it would allow an easy swap to Boost and then open up more forks as there aren't many QR tapered plus options.

As for long distances, it's what I bought it for but never got round to doing! I will probably stick some gears on this spring and do some longer rides over the summer.

I have a 17" down in Brighton if you are nearby and want to have a look at one.

I've been looking at them since launch. I am still tempted, but really in the position to buy a new bike.

I have seen that some Cannondale bikes use the 141mm QR standard, as do some of the Norco bikes. As has been mentioned boost hubs with QR end caps allow conversion too.

For the price they're going for I think they're worth considering, but the Pine Mountain 1 is also appealing due to having suspension, and the Genesis Tarn looks great too.

Funny you mention the Ogre, I had an ECR, which I would expect is similar to the Ogre in the sense of it's build and stiffness, and I found it ridiculously overbuilt. It felt completely dead and the ride was horrid unloaded. I sold the frame and ended up transferring all my stuff to a Krampus, which has a much livelier ride, but like I mentioned the geometry just doesn't work for me. I worry the Ogre would be similarly overbuilt and dead to ride.

That's interesting. My Troll is ok, but it can be a bit harsh unladen with 2" tyres pumped up for the road. The Pugsley is actually built of quite skinny tubes (noticeably skinnier than the Troll) and I think that really contributes to the feel of the bike.... Even though it has 4" tyres,. I may have a think about the Ogre then! I guess the K Monkey is a bit long like the Krampus.

@Scotroutes

Thank you, that's really kind of you! If I do, I'll definitely get in touch! The Highland 550 looks very interesting, but I do worry about the extent of it's self-supported nature.

@TimP I've never measured my bikes, so I unfortunately have no benchmark with which to compare 30lbs! My Moonlander and Krampus are surprisingly light though. The fork does look really heavy, especially with the bridge it has.
That's really kind of you to offer, thanks! Unfortunately I am up in London. How does it ride?

@drewd The fact that despite being an odd standard it's still usable makes it a lot more appealing. If I did like it, I'd eventually want to put a Dynamo on it. It's a shockingly low price, lower than most framesets. I'm very tempted but still not exactly sure.

@gowerboy

The ECR was very heavy as well. It's tubes weren't actually too big, but they felt very dense. I do wonder whether a 26 x 4 might be preferable to a 27.5 x 3. It's very confusing. I wish I had a chance to try them all somehow! Buying a bike without trying is such a gamble. I bought a Spesh AWOL for just over a grand from my LBS without trying it and hugely regret it. It's really stiff and doesn't even fit me properly, much too big, despite being a small.

@officerfriendly I know the feeling... I have experimented by buying bikes and regretted it straight away. I bought a Thorn Raven Tour to replace a Thorn catalyst in the days before all the current diversity of tyre sizes and I was looking for a rough road tourer. The Catalyst was lovely but I had thought that the Raven would be better for gravel track touring but for my use it was like a sluggish breeze block. I hated it and regretted it straight away. So I moved on to a custom Woodrup..... Well you can guess what happened there. All the bits from those frames are now on my Troll which is fine but is rim braked.

They have stopped making the Pugsley now which is a shame. It is the one bike I found really work for me for bikepacking type stuff. There is talk of a replacement but woild it be as good? The Wednesday certainly doesn't appeal as much. I was toying with the idea of a Krampug but an offset frame doesn't make as much sense for a permanent plus bike as it does a fatty.

As you say, it may be the case that sticking with 4" tyres works best for my riding!

I bought one with the recalled fork in. I used it for rehab after my back being broken due to it being quite upright compared to all my other bikes. Stock wheels and tyres (nobby nics) went up tubeless fine. I changed the bars as I don't like wide bars, and fitted a specialized pizza rack and ILE porteur bag. It's done a bike packing trip and gets most use as a trailer tug for carting my son around. Annoying thing for me was not being able to find full coverage rear mudguard at a reasonable cost.
It's a heavy bike, it's not lively and I found it overgeared so fitted a 28T front ring. This helps when I'm pulling 24kg of tot and trailer up Welsh hills. It's a sturdy beast and I really quite like it.

@gowerboy

It is awfully disappointing when that happens, I'm sorry to hear you know the feeling. My Moonlander is fantastic, but the offset wheel annoys me, and the fact that I can't run it with anything smaller than 4.7"!

I really wish there was some way I could try a 27.5+ to see how it fits. Cheers to TimP for offering (:

@shedbrewed

Everyone keeps saying it is really heavy, which doesn't sound ideal. My Krampus, while being steel, and having a Dynamo hub is still very light to me.

It's amazing that it comes with Tubeless rims, Nobby Nics and Sram GX at that price. I'm really tempted. I was just going to buy it, then I figured, why don't I give my Krampus one last go.

I changed the saddle on it to a Brooks, and this seems to have completely changed the riding position, and it actually feels reasonably comfortable now. I'm not too sure about the 29+ wheels for all day riding, as they do seem fairly big for me - I'm 5'5".

Here's a picture of the Krampus. I'm still tempted to go for the Pine Mountain. I wish I could be put out of my misery, I'm so torn. It's really frustrating, but talk about first world problems!

[IMG] [/IMG]

I bought one of the 2017 and I'm enjoying it.  Ideal for winter thrashing, the NN are a pretty good all rounder and seem to cope with muddy crap pretty well.

Changed the post to a dropper, and dropped the front ring to a 28T but other than that I've left it as is.  Think the wheel thing has been covered above, I may change the fork at some point which would drop a bit of weight (Alpkit do a rigid alloy fork that has the "QR boost" drop outs), but the main reason to change the fork would be the lack of mount points on it.

It's a thumbs up from me anyway 🙂

I have one, have a few posts on here about the fork issue and upgrades I've done.

Mine now has Hope wheels, a boosted Reba in the front and Onza skinwalls. It's still chuffin heavy and I'm currently looking at moving all the stuff across to a new Chameleon frame. Hubs are a bit odd but easily fixed by using hope hubs and their QR end caps. It's good fun but I don't love it, even after spending a load of cash on it to try to make it better.

I'll be honest and say I only bought it because it looks cool. I'm sure it's brilliant over long distances but I only tend to do 2/3 hour blasts and for that its a bit of a plodder.

For £500 its a steal, just make sure yours has had the upgraded fork as Marin are utterly terrible in the comms department.

@woody2000

Thanks for the report, you make it sound pretty decent! I can't believe the fork has a fork brace on it, and they still had to recall it?! I really like the look of the Surly forks.

@flange

I think I saw your posts on the fork recall thread.

It's really disconcerting that's it's so heavy and that you're thinking of changing the frame, the frame would be the main thing I'm buying it for personally, otherwise I'd just get an Alu hardtail. I've definitely had that experience where I've spent a lot of money on making a bike better but don't like it that much.

I think for that much I'll just give it a go, and if I don't like it I can sell it on for 400 pounds or something? And the fork is the replaced one, it's actually the 2017 model! 🙂

Bought it! Got it for £465 all in! Super excited, hope it meets my expectations! 😀

Hey all, the bike arrived today, which was super exciting. New bike day is the best day!

[IMG] [/IMG]

I put it together (thankfully the gears and brakes were all set up, shout out to the framed bike co, who have been really great), so only the fun stuff was left. It was chucking it down, but I took out for a ride anyway, and I was having so much fun I didn't want to come back in! It feels really comfortable so far (finally a bike that fits - I think!) and it rides exceptionally well. It feels like so much fun to ride, and I felt almost addicted! Being a shorter stature, I think the smaller wheels suit me a lot more. It was also a lot lighter than I thought it was going to be, I was pleasantly surprised, though it definitely is no lightweight.

Bad points:

I didn't catch onto the fact that the Joytech hubs were not sealed, but rather ball-bearing, which did turn out to be a disappointment. But honestly, at the price it was, I really can't complain. I'm very surprised by the fact that it had GX kit, Nobby Nics and Tubeless rims for the price it was. And the frame feels fantastic. It doesn't feel heavy at all, and the tubing feels pretty light from what I can make of it. And I really like the look of the forks to be honest, despite not liking them in the pictures.

The BB seems unusually high. If I put the seat to correct height, whereupon my legs are nearly fully extended, my feet get nowhere near the floor and it feels downright dangerous! I didn't have this problem on my Krampus which is interesting.

Thanks for all the help everyone, look forward to really getting out there on it!

Everything that needed to be said about the bike in technical terms was said above. That means I can just admire its aesthetic. Which I am now doing.

Nice bike! I've always LOVED the look of that particular Pine Mountain.

Wahoo, weeny frame...
Get it muddy!

Yep - they look lovely. Very retro.

Saddle height is determined by leg extension above the lowe pedal so is obviously affected by BB height. I used this to my advantage when putting the numbers together for my custom Ti frame. A slightly higher BB and a short crank (170mm is as short as Shimano do in Boost) means the clearance between my saddle and the top of the wheel is a bit more than most bikes would provide. This gives me adequate clearance for a decent sized seatpack. Not being able to touch the ground while perched on the saddle is perfectly normal.

Thanks all! I kind of like the look of it too, but I'm not too sure about the orange yet, though I'm sure it will grow on me! Darn photobucket have disabled direct linking, so reuploaded the pic:

Really really enjoying riding it, and I can't wait to properly take it out when I get some time.

@scotroutes, if the bb is too high, doesn't that lead to quite a strange unstable feeling on the bike? I think it's okay now after adjusting the seat and stem a bit. It only has a 5mm drop more than the Surly Krampus, so it really must just be me imagining it.

It's amazing how much difference 1.5" in wheel diameter can make to the bike.

if the bb is too high, doesn’t that lead to quite a strange unstable feeling on the bike? I think it’s okay now after adjusting the seat and stem a bit. It only has a 5mm drop more than the Surly Krampus, so it really must just be me imagining it.

It might make a marginal difference for a bike that is very "performance" oriented but BB heights have only really started getting fashionably low for the past handful of years. Some other bikes (Charge Cooker comes to mind) have promoted a high BB as a good thing. In my mind, quite apart from the added saddle-tyre gap, a high BB also reduces the chance of pedal strike - quite a problem on some of our more indented/sunk tracks. When putting the numbers together for my custom Ti hardtail I also accepted that the BB would be marginally higher when running 29er wheels instead of the B+ wheels I also have. I can't say that the slightly raised BB is noticeable when I fit those wheels.

As for the difference in wheel diameter, it's closer to 2" than 1.5" but, for those of us not born with long legs, I think that's an important factor.

Now - what trips do you have planned????

Hi OP,

Can I ask where you found it at that price?

I'm feeling the need to move out of 26" and for my standard Highland tracks / riding into munros that looks ideal!

I can only find them at £750 up.

I have just bought a 2017 Marin Pine Mountain 2 at a bargain price.

Updated spec with Fox 34 forks compared to the rigid version.

Sold up my other two bikes with the recent arthritis in my hip, but have decided to keep riding, albeit on fireroads and some tamer singletrack.

Going out for its first ride today.

Made some changes to the standard spec, just to make it a bit more comfortable really.

Wheels are now tubeless , running 15 psi, changed the dropper post out as I have a Syntace P6 carbon post. Less to go wrong, and I will be sat down for 95% of the time on easier riding.

Thomson bars fitted in place of the stock bars , with ESI foam grips.

Biketart has the very same model (2017) still for sale, for a bargain price.

^ thanks, but looking for rigid.

Shameless plug but I'm selling the frame, forks & wheels in the classifieds if you've got the bits to build one up and you'd ride a large...

@scotroutes

I'm glad you asked!

I'm going to go out properly after I finish my exams in June, for now I have a few 100km sportive lined up to practice for longer rides which hopefully should be a bit of fun, one is in two weeks!

My idea was to do a route locally, as in nationally first, then try and find one somewhere abroad, however the typical destinations for bike packing look far out of reach.

The first route I'm looking at doing is the Ridgeway double, which starts from near London, which is perfect for me. There's the North Downs from there, and then the South Downs way which goes all the way to Eastbourne, but seeing how close it is to Bath and Wales, it might be worth heading there instead.

I saw the Highland 550 which looks amazing, but I worry about going somewhere so remote.

What I really wanted to do was go somewhere abroad, Spain looks fantastic and there are a fair few routes there but I worry it will be too hot cycling there in the summer. I'm not quite sure where else to look that isn't too far away geographically.

@flowerpower

I bought it from an LBS new on eBay, who were selling off their old stock. I'm surprised it's so much everywhere else, compared to how much I bought it for!

@Denis99

Sounds great! How does it ride?

Sorry to hijack thread for my own nefarious ends, but I'm looking to sell my 2016 Pine Mountain 1 in the very near future. I've really enjoyed riding it, it's been very capable and surprisingly fun. The frame is a large, I've fitted a KS eTen dropper post, Hope BB, Charge Spoon saddle and 3" Schwalbe Nobby Nics (set up tubeless). It currently has 780mm bars on it but I'm thinking of keeping them for another bike so the original 740mm bars will in all likelihood go back on.It's always been cleaned and lubed after each ride. If anyone's interested, or would like more details/pics, drop me a DM. I'm not far from Gloucester if that makes a difference!

Just got back in from a ride around Afan.

Need to get the sag sorted out on the forks, a little too much pressure at the moment.

Tyres were great, 15 psi front and rear.

Stopped in the new cafe at Glyncorrwg for tea and marmite on toast, ummm.

Similar to the Trek Stache 9 I had, but doesn't feel such a barge.

I'm liking these - bought a Cannondale best of the east recently but the proper retro styling of the Marin plus range looks brilliant ! Also couldn't believe how different the big wheels / tyres make a bike feel, apart from the weight penalty - currently looking at how (reasonably) light you could go with a 27.5+ build on a budget

J

Glad you seem to be enjoying it officerfriendly 👍

Also had a memory of the axle bearings being almost grease free when I got mine, so some preventative maintenance of greasing all the bearings is probably a good plan now 👍

Thanks Shedbrewed! I'll give that a go, though I do worry about undoing the bearings as I've never really worked with cup n cone bearings before.