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I've been riding mostly Rohloff and single speed for the past few years, so I'm not up to date on the world of derailleurs and groupsets.
I've found a couple of guides, but they are not really all that helpful beyond the absolute basics.
[url= http://www.chainreactionhub.com/road/980-our-guide-to-shimanos-road-groupsets-from-tiagra-to-dura-ace ]Shimano road[/url].
[url= http://www.chainreactionhub.com/latest-news/1021-our-guide-to-shimano-mountain-bike-groupsets-from-deore-to-xtr ]Shimano MTB[/url]
[url= http://thesoiledchamois.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/mountain-bike-group-sets-beginners.html ]Comparison of Shimano and Sram.[/url]
I've asked a few questions on here, and read a lot of other threads, and I'm picking bits up here and there, but it would be handy to have all the information in one place. What's compatible with what and what exactly is the difference between different groupsets.
For example, things I've learned recently are that BB7 calipers come in two different cable pulls for road or MTB levers.
If you buy a tandem with Shimano Alivio, upgrading to cheap, second hand, worn out Deore will immediately improve the shifting.
An XTR cassette is effectively the same as XT, but costs three times as much, just to save 80g.
CX bikes use MTB, not road, rim brakes.
I'm sure there's all sorts of other information that would be useful to anyone trying to upgrade and mix & match different components.
CX bikes use MTB, not road, rim brakes
depends what you mean by MTB and road there.
they'll have mounts for cantilever or mini-V's. Normal MTB V's have the wrong leverage for the cable pull of road levers.
but lots of new CX bikes are now disc, so take MTB 29er wheels, rather than road wheel.
Deore stuff is fine. SLX is a little better. You can spend more money on components that wear out.
Some slightly iffy sweeping generalisations in there, brakes as above, I'd have new Alivio, not worn out Deore, and XTR cassettes aren't the same as XT, they're lighter...
I'm not convinced you're going to find everything you want to know (as that seems to be absolutely everything) in one place, short of trawling Sheldon Brown or Park Tools, both of which I suspect cover most things, albeit amongst reams of information.
In terms of groupset compatibility, very briefly:
- Shimano 8/9 speed MTB and 8/9/10 road are cross compatible
- Shimano 10 speed MTB is different to everything else
- Shimano 11 speed road is different to everything else
- SRAM 9 speed MTB is different to everything else
- SRAM 10 speed road and MTB are cross compatible
- SRAM 11 speed road is different to everything else
- Campag doesn't work with anything else, and generally isn't cross compatible between 9/10/11 speed
There are some workarounds, bodges and exceptions, but that's the broad thrust of it.
Cable brakes are road or MTB compatible, you can get "travel agent" type adjusters to make MTB brakes work with road levers. Shimano did change the pull on their brakes on the later 10 speed road groups, so they're notionally incompatible with earlier levers.
depends what you mean by MTB and road there.
There you are, that's what I mean. I assumed that as CX uses 72mm MTB pads, the entire brake was the same. Turns out it's not.
XTR cassettes aren't the same as XT, they're lighter...
Which is what I meant by [i]effectively[/i] the same.
They fit the same hub and use the same shifter and derailleur, so you can swap one with another without making any other changes.
So, from my point of view and for my budget and intended use, it's worth upgrading a rear mech from Alivio to Deore [i]because it works better[/i], but not a cassette from XT to XTR [i]because it's a bit lighter[/i].
So, from my point of view and for my budget and intended use, it's worth upgrading a rear mech from Alivio to Deore because it works better, but not a cassette from XT to XTR because it's a bit lighter.
Subjectivity in there, but as I said, I'd not upgrade a new Alivio to a used Deore. I'd not bother to upgrade to new Deore for that matter, Alvio will work. IMO SLX is a better groupset generally that Deore.
Which is what I meant by effectively the same.
They're interchangeable, to say they're effectively the same is a little misleading IMO, but that's a matter of semantics. But in similar vain a 700x23c road tyre is 'effectively' the same as a 29x2.4" freeride tyre!
SRAM/Shimano chains and cassettes are all interchangeable within each number of sprockets. So yes, in that respect, they're all 'effectively' the same.
Sorry to butt in, but does that mean I can use a 10 speed X9 rear mech with 10 speed Red shifters?
does this affect their use with BB7s?Shimano did change the pull on their brakes on the later 10 speed road groups, so they're notionally incompatible with earlier levers.
Got links to more info on this? eg which models and what the changes amount to?
Sorry to butt in, but does that mean I can use a 10 speed X9 rear mech with 10 speed Red shifters?
I could be wrong on that, I did wonder after I posted it. David Millar (and others) ran XX mechs and cassettes with Red shifters in the Giro a few years ago, but it's obviously not inconceivable that they did something odd to them to make it work.
does this affect their use with BB7s?
No, which is why I said "notionally". They changed at the same time they went to hidden cables, so 7800/6600/5600 used the 'old' pull, whilst 7900/9000, 6700, 6800, 5700 all use the 'new' type. As you point out though, none of the 3rd party manufacturers did anything different, so there must be a degree of flexibility. I've never tried mixing them, I have heard people say they're a little spongey though if you go old brakes with new levers (or could have been the other way around). 😕
timidwheeler everything I've read (on forums not seen an official manufacturer line) agrees with njee, 10spd sram road and mtb interchangeable, no personal experience tho.
I ran new 10 speed Ultegra 6700 levers with older callipers for a while. They worked but were very wooden, a bit on / off with little feel.
somehow I read this as 'beginners guide to groupies'
Cracking post nj20.
I'll bookmark that.
Thanks.
Damn, been reading up on this and it seems SLR (which I think is what they're calling it) brake levers are a bit wooden with standard road callipers, apparently mountain BB7s work better, grrr, sounds like adding shimano gears to my bike may be costly.
Cheers guys. I quite fancy a type 2 mech on my cx bike.
(I could also really benefit from a 11-36 cassette but it sounds better if I make out the problem is chain slap from all the gnarly riding I do).
Actually Campag groupsets have greater compatibility with other manufacturers than you might think.
Cheers guys. I quite fancy a type 2 mech on my cx bike.
(I could also really benefit from a 11-36 cassette but it sounds better if I make out the problem is chain slap from all the gnarly riding I do)
Sir needs [url= http://www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-force-cx1 ]SRAM CX1[/url] 😉
Actually Campag groupsets have greater compatibility with other manufacturers than you might think.
Which is why I said there are workarounds/bodges/exceptions, because in the main they're just that, and I was trying to avoid over complicating things!
11 speed road?
11 speed chain and cassettes of all brands, seems to happily run on the 11 speed Shimano, 11 speed SRAM and 11 speed Campag shifting systems
most recently a customer with campag-freehub body wheels running campag 11 speed cassette with 11 speed KMC chain on Shimano Ultegra 11 speed shifting 🙂