[Closed] Is SRAM much more expensive than Shimano or what?

Suspect Sram is just lighter / more bling. They all change gear at the end of the day. Although Eagle is said to shift better than the most comparable Shimano - although it’ll be interesting to see how 12 speed Shimano is. That’s going to be very expensive though - so you need to compare 12 speed with 12 speed.

In terms of gears I like my Sram GX 10 speed and 11 speed more than the 10 and 11 speed Shimano slx/ XT I’ve tried.

I don’t particularly like the Shimano 105 on my road bike - feels so vague compared to the Rival I had on my last road bike. However it is the 105 with hydraulic brakes that apparently is rubbish compared to the ultegra equivalent.

Sram gotta make up for all the subsidised gruppos on complete bikes these days.

complete bike looks great value with x amount of cost of Sram groupset on.

while it also  means that matching spares for your complete bike are expensive.

its been the SRAM model for years beyond original X7 / x9 triggers (c. 2005?) which were quite cheap comparatively.

XO(1) is XTR equivalent, according to sram. XX(1) is meant to be one up from that.

Sram gotta make up for all the subsidised gruppos on complete bikes these days.

complete bike looks great value with x amount of cost of Sram groupset on.

Correct.

Bit of a marketing strategy.

It is their model isn't it? Very cheap on a complete bike and also able to supply everything apart from frame (and maybe headset), so for a manufacturer, sram is very appealing. However, the consumer side is complete opposite and prices are very high...annoyingly us consumers seem happy to pay those prices though.

Unsure they are 'better' as it is all subjective and personal opinion.

However, yes, from a consumer point of view, sram is more expensive.

Gx compares well to xt and for me is better at that price point.

The longevity of cassettes also makes the prices harder to compare. To a point though drive trains are lasting well for me, purchase price is all relative.

I thought SRAM was cheaper as it’s on loads of full bikes. Put me off a lot of bikes I might buy as I can’t stand the shifters.

I think I prefer the feel of the latest sram to shimano, but every single SRAM mech Ive used has died far sooner than any shimano mech

My SRAM NX that died 7 weeks ago still hasnt come into the shop for warranty replacement!

Makes me even more certain Ill be sticking with Shimano for the future

Sram gotta make up for all the subsidised gruppos on complete bikes these days.

That's not actually true. The oe prices of both are fairly similar overall. You just never pay full price for Shimano aftermarket as there's such much grey market and oe stuff playing about. Xtr mech RRP is well north of £200 for example .

I'm sure Sram are not losing money on their OE sales, bit naive to suggest so.

They just seem to have more supposed high-end gruppos than Shimano, with the tolerable stuff (GX) starting more expensive than SLX.

My preference is for Shimano shifter and mech (XT currently) with a GX 11-speed cassette - and a Race Face Aeffect cinch chainset with Shimano BB. Surprisingly cost-effective and best of both (all three?) worlds.

dont need to lose money to be subsidizing.

as i said above Having inflated prices on your aftermarket keeps the bikes looking like great value when you add up the sum of all the SRAM stuff on there (pushing their sales up)  making you an attractive spec option for OEs to use (pushing the bike Cos sales up) with the bonus of if you rip off your mech you get to pay through the nose to replace it. (good for SRAM)

is that XTR Di2 thats "well north" of 200.00 ? since RRP on m9100 series is 189.99

I think Sram are a bit better at doing an Apple than Shimano and artificially  holding their prices high. Shimano just lets all the OEM stuff flood the market so it’s comparativly cheap.

Yep - bought a new bike earlier this year, took all the SRAM drivetrain off it and sold it, fitted Shimano instead

Mostly done as I prefer Shimano, but the cost of replacement parts was a factor too

As a manufacturer, SRAM are just far easier to work with. Solid 30 day lead times for component orders in most cases.

I’ve heard of 6 month lead times with Shimano then not have the front mechs turn up.

At least you don’t have to worry about SRAM front mechs turning up.

I think Sram are a bit better at doing an Apple than Shimano and artificially  holding their prices high. Shimano just lets all the OEM stuff flood the market so it’s comparativly cheap.

The comment I heard was Shimano doesn't give a **** how you buy it so long as you buy it, so happy to let cross border crap, OEM, grey go and let everyone fight it out for the scraps. Which leads to the LBS can't compete on anything in a blue box if it's being undercut before it's hit the shelf.

SRAM see the value in the retail model and like that it's an even playing field.

As above I'll happily pay more for a steel cassette that weights less than the alternative Alu one and will outlast it, value is better than price.

well if sram can just get the rest of their group set to be as robust as their cassette we will be golden but their jockey wheels seem to be made of buttered toast and the bearings seem to be pre seized.

then we should be golden

The comment I heard was Shimano doesn’t give a **** how you buy it so long as you buy it, so happy to let cross border crap, OEM, grey go and let everyone fight it out for the scraps. Which leads to the LBS can’t compete on anything in a blue box if it’s being undercut before it’s hit the shelf.

SRAM see the value in the retail model and like that it’s an even playing field.

Except that's patently not true- cases in point being Rockshox and Guide brakes.

Lots of cross contamination between OE and retail with SRAM too. Which is great and makes GX12 far better value than XT11 so I don't agree that SRAM is expensive.

It’s not a level playing field but that’s a two way thing.

SRAM leverages the fact they can supply pretty much a full build and discounts to manufacturers that take fork, shock, dropper, brakes and gears.  That means it’s an attractive package for product managers who are happy to play the game and bikes end up with a perceived higher level of componentry than might otherwise be the case at the price point. Occasionally as with Spesh, they may even charge a premium while fitting the NX crap stuff.  No one much discounts SRAM kit in the UK aftermarket so it stays fairly close to RRP.

Shimano don’t have the full build to play with but do have a loyal following and volume. They play the OE game too just maybe not as hard, but do make it possible for the OR market to be flooded with manufacturer discount level parts, which basically cannibalises their UK aftermarket as dealers can’t possibly match the sub-trade prices.

Frankly, I don’t understand why anyone would want to be a dealer for either of such asshat companies.

Frankly, I don’t understand why anyone would want to be a dealer for either of such asshat companies.

I think Ben had a good bit on a previous thread. All I can go on is the stuff from mates in the Oz trade - SRAM was working to cut out OE leaks - and the stuff that came up due to currency fluctuations with cross border selling. In theory that made it better for the shops as they could compete on an even playing field for SRAM/RS bits without some guy in france buying 500 pikes when the £/Euro was right and cashing in. It protects the brand and the retail structure. People choose to buy it at the price if they want to. As much as it amazes some in here plenty of people are picking SRAM over Shimano by choice at the prices it's available at 🙂

It's a model that looks after the dealers most of the time by treating them evenly.

The only thing on the list Shimano can't supply up there is a fork/shock they have the rest sorted through their Pro Brand but nobody seems to want it on a stock bike. It is however a ridiculous state of things when nobody pays RRP for a product. It's short sighted.

Frankly, I don’t understand why anyone would want to be a dealer for either of such asshat companies.

Such is the size (and the tribalism of the customers) shops can’t afford to not stock (or at least maintain an account in order to be able to get hold of) them.

^^ I'll admit that I'd swap Shimano out for SRAM out of preference every time although I'm currently favouring Magura for braking.  I just don't like Shimano MTB stuff as much, and don't find SRAM explodes or generally catches fire for me in any of the novel ways regularly posted on the interwebs.

France is often a good bet if you want to save big money on SRAM/RS though, it's true.

SRAM's top end is topper end than Shimano's top end. I'm not sure what that actually counts for, these days- when you look at price, performance and weight of the high end SRAM ranges there's really not much in it so the XX11 or whatever it's called these days just seems like an aspirational thing rather than really offering any significant advantage over the next model down.

But down the range, Shimano doesn't have a GX Eagle competitor at all, it's just not something they do- their only widerange cassette is still XTR. They're finally in the game but only just.

but the cost of replacement parts was a factor too

This, in the last year or so I have had to replace the shifter and mech at separate times and couldnt believe the price! For the price of a GX 11 speed Mech I could have purchased the 11 speed SLX Shimano shifter and mech!

I like the feel of SRAM, when working nicely its excellent, but I dont think its that robust, my gearing cant handle a day at BPW without needing to be re-indexed!

For the price of a GX 11 speed Mech I could have purchased the 11 speed SLX Shimano shifter and mech!

GX is at the same (arguably a bit higher) level as XT

How do weights compare? GX Vs XT, XTR Vs X0?

Its hard to make a direct comparison but as a rule:

SRAM has lighter shifters
Shimano has lighter mechs
SRAM has lighter cassettes

Overall SRAM tends to be lighter as a package as the cassette is so much lighter.

GX is at the same (arguably a bit higher) level as XT

People say stuff like that, then they also say 500 series/Deore/SLX is functionally the same as XT/XTR just a few grams difference. Which to an extent is true. In the same way there isn't an appreciable functional difference between NX and XX1 apart from the weight. So does that mean XX1 is really only as good as 500 series?

Personally I vowed never to go back to SRAM mechs as I found them to be ridiculously fragile. They can be as far ahead as they like in the n+1 gears arms race, if the mech doesn't last a month of riding it's not fit for purpose! And if they did remain intact, the jockey wheels made up for it by reducing their number of moving parts to zero. That was largely down I think to SRAM being the smaller company and making things from injection molded parts, or CNC'ing them, whereas Shimano had access to better manufacturing processes so even their Deore mechs had forged parts which resisted being bent much better than the big (but light) CNC'd knuckles of SRAM.

In the real world you pick a side (or a mix or parts) and your budget dictates what the sum of them weighs. The whole "SRAM RED is better than Dura Ace" or "XX1 is better than XTR" just comes from the fact that SRAM was always traditionally a bit lighter, and a lot more expensive so if you were a weightweenie with money to burn you went with SRAM. Following that logic we should all be riding with Pauls thumbies as they weigh even less and cost as much as my whole bike!

SRAM IMO still acts like a small scale manufacturer, they're producing lightweight CNC'd parts at astronomical prices to compete with the mass production processes of Shimano. So yes a GX cassette weighs the same as an XT one, but it costs 50% more, the next step up (XO1) is £250 in the shops, whereas XTR is 'only' £160 and weighs the same (ignoring the elephant in the room that SRAM have an extra gear).

So yes a GX cassette weighs the same as an XT one, but it costs 50% more (ignoring the elephant in the room that SRAM have an extra gear).

Eleven speed apples to eleven speed apples though, the GX cassette is lighter for the same range and not that much more expensive (vs xt) or a fair whack more range for a little bit more weight and less money (vs xtr).

In my experience the gx cassettes last a ridiculously long time though so come out ahead on miles/£. Chains are cheaper too. Still prefer shimano shifting though- happily they work together.

Eleven speed apples to eleven speed apples though, the GX cassette is lighter for the same range and not that much more expensive (vs xt) or a fair whack more range for a little bit more weight and less money (vs xtr).

Maybe I'm confused as to which is which, there's one thats near enough XT money and weight and one that's near enough XTR.

I remember when 10s came out and luddites stuck with 8s because it was cheaper for the consumables, at that point we were talking £25 Vs £30 or so for an XT cassette on CRC. And people looked at the one guy in the group with an XTR cassette like he (it was always he) was mad for spending £100 on a consumable part.  What SRAM have managed to do is rather than compete with shimano on Shimano's terms, they've convince the guy in the middle of the group who might have bought LX 10 years ago that actually he should be spending XTR money, once you've convinced him that he should spend more on a cassette than the cost of a dirty weekend away with the OH in a 4-star hotel, then of course shimano just looks heavy!

Have you checked the actual prices there... If your getting dirty weekend for the price of a gx cassette then well done.

It does completely frame the argument around purchase price not ownership cost so you can be happy buying cheaper Shimano cassettes more often....

Maybe I’m confused as to which is which, there’s one thats near enough XT money and weight

All the XD 11 cassettes are lighter than any shimano 11 speed cassettes, including XTR, with the exception of the 1150 cassette which is a sub GX level cassette introduced as OE only at first to cut some costs but proved so popular that it made it to the aftermarket. That one is still 50g lighter than the equivalent range XT cassette.... Not that it really matters but thats the reason why SRAM is pretty much always lighter. Until Shimano shed some weight from their cassettes they're always going to lose on weight if that is your determining factor.

Can someone explain to me what “better” shifting is? Are people measuring how long it takes to shift and are those pesky tenth of a second crucial to your bimble in the woods? Are people comparing like for like and taking in to account all the other factors involved in an actual shift in gear? Just curious as to what better actually is as most people seem to be just bothered about weight.

with the exception of the 1150 cassette which is a sub GX level cassette

So is there an actual GX cassette? I thought the 1150 was that.

If only the bastards would make it 10-46t, it'd be the perfect working man's cassette.

‘Better’ shifting is down to how it feels.  I want it be precise, reliable, consistent, quick, and smooth.  Sram do it better at the moment, Shimano feels a bit more woolly.  Set up perfectly from new, at similar price points, there isn’t much between them though.

I thought the 1150 was the gx cassette and the 1175 was a non series one for oe groupsets. Same as the 1150 just with an aluminium 42 for weight.

I thought the 1150 was the gx cassette and the 1175 was a non series one for oe groupsets. Same as the 1150 just with an aluminium 42 for weight.

To be honest now I think about it I cant remember if the 1150 was the non series for X1, which became the GX cassette, or was it non series for GX too. Either way they came out at the same time and 1150 was the non series at the time.

Just bought an XT shifter from CRC for THIRTY QUID.

It's really nice too!  And it was the retail boxed version that comes with a nice cable.

Odd, I had this same discuss with SIS vs Torq products this very morning, based on the fact SIS constantly have some kind of sale on... and remains the go to for me.

a) SiS tastes awful

b) Torq has more fancier ingredients in it, especially the recovery

c) If you're going to drink SiS you might as well drink plain maltodextrin and add your own squash - tastes better still and costs peanuts.

"Odd, I had this same discuss with SIS vs Torq products this very morning, based on the fact SIS constantly have some kind of sale on… and remains the go to for me."

you shop for your bib shorts at on one as well ? SIS just makes me ill and tastes awful . Torq doesnt just work better but its also palatable.

but some folk do just vote on whats *a deal*  and on that SIS does win.  - basic mike Astley marketing that one

Well, Sky use SIS and they don't do too badly but:

a) SiS tastes awful

I like it.

b) Torq has more fancier ingredients in it, especially the recovery

I use MyProtien Whey protein Isolate and healthy carb proper foods, its cheaper.  And actually you use the SIS Whey 20 Gel, no it doesnt (admittedly it does vs REGO).

c) If you’re going to drink SiS you might as well drink plain maltodextrin and add your own squash – tastes better still and costs peanuts.

As above for taste, GO endurance has the same Malto/Fructose as Torq,and if you drop a hydro tab in all the Sodium etc also - considering I just bought 1.6kg for 1/2 the price of Torq+20% discount I don't see the issue. But your argument works for any branded "mix" - anyone can by Malto & Fructose from say, MyProtien and mix it.

The amount I go through in a year adds up to several £100's difference, and if I get on with it, why not?

I use MyProtien Whey protein Isolate and healthy carb proper foods, its cheaper.  And actually you use the SIS Whey 20 Gel, no it doesnt (admittedly it does vs REGO).

Torq recovery contains glutamine and ribose, I don't think that SIS gel does.  It's highly effective and also delicious if you get strawberry.  But incredibly expensive.

You can however buy all these ingredients from bulkpowders.com and make your own, it's about 1/3 the cost if you make the recovery inc ribose and glutamine.  You can make your own malto/fructose drink with electrolytes, but finding flavouring powder is next to impossible.  I am now using plain malto to which I've added electrolyte powder, something like £15 for 5kg.  Approx the same price as bread before you start adding fillings 🙂

If I had more cash I'd buy flavoured Torq to take with me when travelling - easier than bring liquid squash.