Is my bike over-tyred?

What bike are you normally riding? I find it's a bit of a shock moving up/down tyre size if I've been riding a different bike exclusively for a while.

Depends what you're riding... only you know the answer.

Is this a stealth "what tyre" thread?

I have Pirelli Scorpion 2.4, they're good, try 'em 🙂

Where and what styllleeee of riding?
How gnar do you feel, punk?

Bike is hard work up hills,

Yes

these tyres might have something to do with it?

Maybe, probs less than we all think.

I've only ridden the Assegai DD MaxxGrip, which was horrific to pedal.

Which compound is yours?

Anyway, the rear tyre sounds perfect for mixed MTBing. Maybe just get an Exo (or similar) front tyre with a less aggressive tread?

I have a pair of 640g in 29" x 2.4" Wolfpack Speed that are rather spritely, they suit my riding whilst it's dry.

Sounds alright to me. I’ve been riding round for the last few months on an Assegai maxterra 2.5 exo front / 2.3 maxterra dhr2 exo rear. I don’t think exo+ is hugely heavier than exo.

Off to Dyfi in a few weeks so just switched to a wild enduro magi-x 2.4 front / Xynotal enduro / soft rear in the hope they’ll resist punctures better. Especially the rear tyre feels much stronger than the exo tyres coming off.

If you’re just riding flow trails then maybe the Assegai might be a little bit overkill but the dissector is a fairly faster rolling rear tyre.

Don’t know much about the wicked will but an exo+ rekon rolls quite fast (ran one with a rimpact as a back tyre last year) and the schwalbe rock razor (just stuck one on my hardtail at the back) also seems pretty fast but still has decent side knobs for cornering grip.

I don’t mind giving up some rear grip for faster rolling in good weather but I’d rather run something up front that is really grippy.

If you're not aggressively smashing rock gardens often then they're probably overkill. I find the 3c exo fine for rocky peak trails but I'm 75kg and not the fastest. I'd stick a 2.4 rekon on the back and go from there.

How often are you puncturing? How often are you unwantingly sliding out on corners?

I've done four rides so far. No punctures, of course, but I did wash out alarmingly twice. Not what I expected on tyres like that not what I experienced using Hans Dampf 2.4 soft on my 26er long travel bike doing the same stuff in the same way.

I have never wrecked tyres in the past, but I'm wondering if I will end up hitting stuff faster which will result in more tyre damage? I guess the obvious thing to do is just wait til they wear out and try something else. I could try Hans Dampf again but people don't like them apparently so maybe not.

Really just wondering if that's sensible rubber for a trail bike in general use.. They are both 3C Max Terra EXO+. I guess MaxTerra is the compound?

but Maxxis Assegai 2.5/Dissector 2.4 combo in EXO+ seems a bit much for a trail bike?

they would be considered under tyred if they were on my trail bike (Have assegai exo+ on front, but DHR II in double down on the rear), so it all depends on you and what/how you ride.

I bought a Magic Mary/Hans Dampf 2.6 combo for my new hardtail as I had the older version on my full suss in 2.4 and liked them. Seems they have become more gnaar as the Dampf is huge compared to my old one!

Recently changed the tyres on the full suss and after taking advice on here I toned down the rear and went for a 2.25 Nobby Nick. Wowzer, it rolls so much better and makes a noticeable difference. Might be different in the wet but that's what the tractor tyre HT is for!

@molgrips - has your new bike got a longer reach than the old one / a longer front centre vs rear centre?

Your tyres aren’t the cause of washing out I’d say - you probably aren’t weighting the front wheel enough

Hans Dampf is still a good rear tyre for the summer IMO.

I've got a lightly used 29er snakeskin soft one here, could do you cheap if interested?

So do you ride out to trails on those?

I had that exact combination on my bike, along with CushCore pro front and rear. Mine were both Max Terra as Max Grip wasn't available.

When I first fitted them, along with moving to shorter cranks, I did find them heavier going.

I really liked the Assegai, but never got on with the Dissector. I found it wasn't great at braking, and wore it out pretty quickly, so I replaced it with a DHR in Exo+ which I think is a great combo.

Even though a DHR has more rolling resistance than a Dissector, I'm used to them now, and really like them.

I think Exo+ in combination with CushCore pro is a sweet spot for weight/compliance/puncture resistance, although I do need to keep a close eye on sealant levels.

So do you ride out to trails on those?

who ,me?

I dont ride out to trails, but I do ride lots of road and flat bits linking sections of trail during a ride, and most of the climbs tend to be on the road.

For complete transparency, I do now pretty much only ride an ebike (albeit a low power one), but even when I was on a normal bike I used the same tyres, and they were fine.

Exo+ casing and MaxxTerra compound is ideal for trail riding. Smashier riders may want an insert in the back or a heavier casing and some would want stickier compound up front (especially in the wet).

DD and/or MaxxGrip is way way slower rolling.

Is this your first big travel 29er having switched from 26?

I'm (still) struggling with the same thing on my Rocketmax 3 years in. I think its a combination of the bigger wheels and tyres just being heavier and having more inertia to wind up and the speed with which bikes like this can smash through stuff, meaning you need to run relatively tough/heavy rims & tyres to avoid constant pinchflats or rim damage.

Pointed DH, the RMAx is insanely good, and its a very capable climber on steep winchy stuff, but more traversey give'n'take trails, plus road and fireroad, it just gets to be a bit much like hard work after a couple of hours. I'm riding everywhere feeling like I should be 2 gears higher for the effort I'm putting in.

(currently running a 2.5 WTB Verdict on the front (stupid grip; bit heavy; last forever) and the lightest casing Kryptotal Re on the back with a rimpact (mid weight; better grip than a DHR, less than a Judge))

3c is overkill on the rear, ime. Would rather run DD/thicker casing with longer lasting rubber on the rear.

Also 2.3-2.4 width is more than enough. There's a reason the enduro guys and girls aren't running 2.6 tyres.

Is this your first big travel 29er having switched from 26?

First long travel 29er yes after a long travel 26. I have owned XC 29ers for a while though. It feels and is very slow on climbs.

I thought you bought a Reactor rather than a Mega in the end? If so that’s not long travel - that’s just firmly mid travel.

I’ve found with my sentinel (alloy with a coil shock and heavier than a carbon reactor I’d imagine) climbs fine - but pedalling / spinning fast and keeping momentum up seems to be the best way to make progress - rather than a slow cadence and gurning. I’ve got a 30t chainring and 10-51 cassette so I can do this quite a lot of the time.

If you keep the momentum up it’ll go up virtually anything and there’s so much grip.

I would imagine the geometry is quite different between an older 26er and a new Reactor - newer bikes tend to feel very stable and less accelerative - but smash through a lot more stuff at speed on the way down.

Those are trail tyres as far as I'm concerned. On the agro end for sure, but still trail tyres.

Sounds a little over tyred at at least in the dry. I only realised how unnecessarily over tyred I was running until I switched to Rekon 2.8F and 2.6R. Around 1.4kg put together for a start...

It is a Reactor, yes. And I know it's not long travel but it is a replacement for the Patriot and I am comparing it to that. The Reactor is nearly 1.5kg heavier, and whilst the riding position is much better for technical climbing it's just as slow. It's not like I can't - I'm fit enough - it just takes ages. I'd also say that the downhill performance is comparable between the two.

What tyres are people running in their gnarpoon tyres? I let mine down to 20 rear 17 front to see if I could relieve the roughness that was in fact caused by the forks needing a service; this might be part of it. I'm 90kg. I'll whack them up next time.

You probably need about 28psi. Maybe a couple of psi less on the front.

That should make a huge difference. 17/20 seems far too low. I am 65-70kg (somewhere in that range) and run 18/21 psi in 2.4/2.5 trail  tyres.

Was the patriot not 180mm travel both ends?

A lot of the extra weight is probably going to be in the wheels and tyres I’d think. Would imagine they ride pretty differently with single pivot vs Horst link and 130mm travel vs 180mm travel. Can’t find the geometry for the Patriot though to have a look at that.

The Reactor should be better under braking them the single pivot - you can brake without it locking out / jacking up etc.

If you want faster rolling but still strong tyres you could stick the dissector on the front and pick up a rock razor for the rear (or if you want matching brands a rekon exo+). Just don’t buy a rekon in exo - it’s made of tissue paper - I holed one about a month back just riding in the local woods - and I’ve never punctured a tubeless tyre before. It had a rimpact in but think the corner of a rock got the tyre between the tread.

DD and/or MaxxGrip is way way slower rolling.

I'm finding this. Last year I went for an Assegai Maxxgrip EXO+ on the front / DHR2 Maxterra Doubledown on the rear and they are noticeably draggier than the DHF Maxterra / HR2 Maxterra Doubledown combo i had before

I'm preferring the Assegai/DHR2 combo for the tech, but it's made longer rides a slog

Was the patriot not 180mm travel both ends?

Mine is a Patriot 7+ from 2007 which had increased travel, and yes it is 180mm both ends but the fork is adjustable and I run it at 170mm. Also run the shock in the lower position which gives pretty modern angles and wheel base except for a 71 degree seat angle. It's for sale 😉

Under braking, yes the Patriot does jack up but once I fitted a dropper this became not much of an issue. It's a M with 410mm reach and I can move around on it so much that jacking up isn't an issue, I load the rear before braking. Not that I needed to brake very often, tbh!

A lot of the extra weight is probably going to be in the wheels and tyres I’d think.

Probably. The wheels are similar spec but simply by being smaller they are significantly lighter and also feel lighter in use. About 1.2kg for these tyres each according to the internet.

Why couldn't the bicycle climb the hill?

Because it was two-tyred.

i suspect that you are over tyred. lighter, faster tyres will definitely reduce the hard work sensation.

i had an exo+ maxgrip assagai on the front and a continental der something on the back. they were very grippy and had a very forgiving and comfortable ride.  2.5 and 2.4

i won a pair of specialized tyres in a raffle. 2.3 grid trail casing t7 (medium compound) on the back and t9 (soft compound) on the front. the front is a butcher, can’t remember the name of the rear one

they were each 300g lighter than the previous tyres and the rear has much closer spaced tread.  they are noticeably quicker climbing and on the road, but equally less good at descending in terms of dampening (i think that’s the word i want). outright grip seems similar but that’s more to do with my limits being lower than either of the sets of tyres.

the last tyres of this weight that i used got unsealable punctures pretty quickly. these seem to be holding up well, though i don’t ride in an area with jagged rocks.  these tyres seem to be sturdy, but being 2.3 they contain less material, so a reasonable weight.

im enjoying the more sprightly nature they’ve brought to my bike and i’m enjoying the way that they have changed the character of the bike.

Dissector EXO is my summer trail bike rear tyre, rolls noticeably better than a DHR2, especially noticeable on road sections which is part of your riding.

I'd perhaps say you have a big gap of "how much tyre" front-rear with the Assegai though.

I let mine down to 20 rear 17 front to see if I could relieve the roughness that was in fact caused by the forks needing a service;

Are you sure it was washout not a tyre folding under cornering forces?

I'm a big lad, and I've never got anywhere near as low a pressure as some claim to run without constant tyre folding in corners or feeling the rim regularly.

Bikepark, FoD etc 20/20

Trails 22/24

Enduro 22/23

No. I had a test ride a couple of weeks ago on a modern geo 140/130 bike with a Nobby nic on the front. Lost the front end twice. Loved the bike but was very glad to try it's bigger brother with a proper tyre set up similar to those mentioned in the OP. Even if I go with a "downcountry" travel bike, I'll still put proper agro trail tyres on it.

Are you sure it was washout not a tyre folding under cornering forces?

On that occasion yes, a proper skid.

I run 25 on my XC bike and that's running 2.1s. Of course, it's generally going a lot slower. But because that's my background - I learned in the early days before we even had suspension - I've got a lot of finesse and I don't break stuff. Regarding squirming, I found that used to happen with some tyres at higher pressures, but Schwalbe have always allowed me to run low pressures.

Of course, more grip is always good, but one of the reasons behind getting this bike was to ride some distances to get to the gnarly trails like Wylie or Risca, so some compromise is going to be needed.

For trail centre

2.5 dhf maxxgrip 3c exo front

2.4 Dissector Dual compound exo rear

I find that a good compromise.

75% of braking grip is from the front wheel.

I only use 3C compound on the back tyre come the depths of winter

Re: the wash out - I didn't like the assegai because of that. Much happier with the greater negative space of the DHF in the loose, dusty stuff.

Interesting.

Lots of love for Maxxis on here generally..

Yeah, I feel like there must be something wrong with me, the amount of love the Assegai gets here.

It is pretty dusty out at the moment though and/or hard.

I might replace them in the future with Hans Dampf or something. We don't get proper greasy slop around here much, it tends to be wet roots/rocks with muddy loam.

I’m not wedded to Maxxis - I like trying other stuff and happily mix and match brands front to back.

I haven’t ridden Wyllie but I’ve done quite a bit of Risca - but not Network R yet. All the front tyres I’d use there have a bit of bite - Hillbilly (winter), Wild Enduro (autumn / spring), DHF (summer). Since getting an Assegai I think that’ll actually do 3 seasons for me - I find it more confidence inspiring than the dhf - particularly where you don’t commit hard enough the intermediate knobs still find grip. Maybe the dhf has more ultimate cornering grip but you’ve got to get it cranked right over early.

I tried a 2.3” Butcher t9 and didn’t like it - found it washed out a few times when I wasn’t expecting it to - replaced it with a 2.5” DHF maxterra and much preferred it back to back.

I’ve probably said it already but I’d more willingly lose rear grip for rolling speed.

If the reach on your patriot was 410mm I’d wager whatever size reactor you’ve gone for the front centre is going to be a chunk longer. Even the small is 10mm longer than that. Needs to be ridden more aggressively / front orientated to get the grip. Although the head angle isn’t that slack at 65.5 degrees.

If the reach on your patriot was 410mm I’d wager whatever size reactor you’ve gone for the front centre is going to be a chunk longer. Even the small is 10mm longer than that. Needs to be ridden more aggressively / front orientated to get the grip. Although the head angle isn’t that slack at 65.5 degrees.

Very good point.

Reactor here, I felt the same with a Assegai and Dissector combo. Tried various combinations, but I settled on the DHR2 2.4 Exo+ on the front and Dissector on the back. Feels much better for me. I was considering Dissector front and rear for summer but I haven't got round to it. I found this a useful chart to refer to when trying out Maxxis tyre combos. Link

Also on the climbing characteristics of the Reactor, I felt a noticeable difference in efficiency, between using the Fox Float X shock, and the new Rockshox Super Deluxe. Lots more bob with the Fox, but hardly any with the RS. I also dropped the stem by 10mm too.

I’ve got a float x - it’s ok generally - although I don’t find the lsc adjustment knob makes much difference to anything.

I’ve heard good things about the new super deluxe air shock. Maybe the tune that bobs less has more of a firm platform / lsc base setting than the float x….could be worth getting a custom tune done as that should be cheaper than a new shock.

The seat angle on the reactor isn’t the steepest - might also be worth banging the saddle as far forward on its rails as possible too.

I'm not wedded to maxxis either, but i do like the dhf up front and the commitment-type riding style that gets the best out of it. Same for similar tyres like butchers. But when it's mucky I switch to a wild enduro front or hillbilly.

Dissector is good on the back. Same for similar tyres like Eliminator etc. A bit loose but nicely so and speeds up the tarmac miles too.  So the only tyre swap I would do would be a dhf on the front and leave the dissector on the rear.

The Patriot is slacker than the Reactor, at least how I have it set up. I'm not overly bothered about the washing out thing, as like you say there's always a lot to learn with a new style of bike.

I have the super deluxe shock, the lack of lockout is irritating in principle but it's pretty well sorted so it's not a huge issue.

The less slack seat angle is one reason I went for the Reactor, as I think super steep seat angles are more about technical climbing than all day comfort. I think 78 degrees feels weird when JRA on flat ish stuff.

I'll head out today with more air in the tyres.

I know what you mean about seat angles. My Transition is fine, as was my Aether - but I think on hardtails where you have no sag at the back the steep seat angles don’t make for comfy long rides. Why I designed my Marino hardtail with a 74 seat angle and it’s worked out great for the longer flatter rides.

Everyone is different on tyres pressures but I tend to run 23 psi in my Assegai for most stuff. If smashing something rocky I might go up a psi or 2 just to be on the safe side. I’m 75kgs.

I put 25 in, I'm 90kg and so is my bike.

Maybe I can go even higher.

SRAM and Bike Faff both say 25/27 near enough.

My base starting point is weight in stone x2 (from stans....years ago mind).

I run 18-20psi in my Assegai front and 20-22psi in my DHR rear both Exo+ with Cushcore pro.

That setup makes sense to me, depends a bit on carcass and compound but then you can't always get exactly what you want.

I'd replace the Dissector, personally, don't rate those at all. Not fast enough for the lack of grip, or, not grippy enough for the lack of speed, whichever you prefer. It's the one hole in Maxxis' modern range imo. A Rockrazor is much faster and while it's less grippy it still does surprisingly well, and is more predictable and has better skidding manners when it lets go. (other semislicks are avalable but schwalbe absolutely killed it with the rockrazor, the old supergravity's the best tyre they'll ever make) But even a worn-down dhr2 is pretty much as fast as the dissector but has better grip and just ridiculously beter manners.

DHR2 in maxxgrip is a superb front tyre for most of the year, but it does not handle proper mud well. (the drawbacks of maxxgrip on the front aren't that big but the improvements on greasy stuff are more than worth it imo). Just in general, I reckon having excellent grip on the front means you can compromise more on the rear, and speed on the back makes more difference than speed on the front so it's pretty complimentary. Tbh mud is the only time I prefer the assegai but even then it's fairly rare that I find the perfect mix of weather and surface that makes the assegai really shine (and when it does, it really does shine)

If you can find one the Conti Argotal is pretty much incredible, Ive been using a 2.6 then a 2.4 one as a trailbike tyre all summer and it's grippier and faster in the dry than makes any sense, I used it for a trailcentre weekend in dumfries and was just knocked out and it's finding grip in superdry tweed crumble just now, but it's also fantastic in the wet. Remains to be seen how it handles real deep winter, but so far I've been nothing but impressed, it's like it's from the future. The carcass seems decent too though I wish there was some choice, hopefully next iteration we get "soft tough" and "soft light" and suchlike rather than carcass being tied to compound, but it's already the best front tyre I've ever had.

I've never had a tyre I could happily use all year for all my riding before, I'll probably still switch to the dhr2 for real summer in general, and remains to be seen if it match a maxxgrip shorty in the real winter. Only real complaint I have is that it picks up mud and stones like nobody's business, causes quite a lot of mudguard/fork noise, those big knobs are like pebble tongs.

My hardtail has a 2.5 3C EXO DHF on the front and a DD MaxPro (I think) Minion SS on the rear (because that was all I could get) and never had a problem with punctures.

I used to run DH tyres on all my big bikes but switched to 3C EXO years ago and never had any problems with punctures or tears. Rode them in wales, Alps, Italy, Dartmoor, FOD. I know the internet says that EXO are too weak for anything but I was a big chap hitting stuff pretty fast (back then anyway) and never had a problem. I did run them at 30psi though as I don’t like really soft and wallowy tyres.

do you think that your tyres are right for the trails?  You can always pump them up really hard for riding to the trails and then lower the pressures when you get there if they’re too draggy on roads, etc.

It's not just the roads, it's the fire road climbs etc.  I do think I would go down one gnar level for the next pair, tbh.

Do you Strava/time?

I'd be really curious as to time on a climb now Vs different rubber.

It is, as you'd expect, much better with more air in the tyres.

It took me about a minute less than last time to get to the forest car park from home - which is a road climb. The general feeling of the bike was better so clearly I had them too low. But the ride itself was overshadowed by trying a trail I hadn't done for a few years and finding my path blocked by dozens of full sized trees blown over and having to hack through miles of undergrowth.

But thinking about it - it's still a shock how absolutely massive a 29 inch wheel with 2.5 inch tyres on is. I almost wish I'd gone for a 27.5

Today, with higher pressure in the tyres I did the Strava segment up the road hill in 11.41 at 147bpm average. Tuesday, with lower pressures, I did 11.29 at 150bpm. And on my XC bike last Saturday I did 10.13 at 154 bpm

The XC bike is somewhat lighter, but most of that I am putting down to XC rubber vs gnar-core rubber.

FWIW my PR, also on my XC bike is 8.16 back in 2018!

Ardents look like they might work, in 2.35. That'd save half a kilo off my wheels.

I think it’s less the weight and more the size of the knobs / tread pattern tbh. Rolling resistance more than outright weight in terms of saving time. Although obviously lighter tyres will make the bike feel livelier.

I commuted today on my hardtail that I’ve recently put a rock razor 27.5x2.6 on. Absolutely flies along as a result. Has a 2.4” wild enduro on the front at the moment.

I’m not sure the ardent is particularly good at anything is it - not that grippy but also not that fast either?

I think it’s less the weight and more the size of the knobs / tread pattern tbh.

Yes, and the carcass. But the Ardents look faster rolling (going by the tread) due to the tread pattern and size - the reduced weight is a nice bonus though.

Exo+ is only about 50g/tyre heavier than Exo casing, the massive jump in weight is going up to DD/DH casing which adds about 300g/tyre on most models!

MaxxTerra is the faster of the two compounds compared to MaxxGrip which is err...grippier so probably not the reason. I think it's probably the tread pattern mostly.

I've just fitted 2.5 Assegai/2.4 DHRII to my 140mm 29er full-sus for an Alps trip (hence the swotting up on compounds/casings) and going from Bontrager XR4's I gained about half a kilo but fortunately I've been riding a lot more so my fitness increase offsets the drag and I really don't have to ride any tarmac or even much fire road for the rides I do on it.

If you're looking to change (which would be frustrating on a new bike!) the Bontrager XR Team Issue tyres are great and light/fast and quite a lot less than Maxxis equivalents. XR1 = speediest/sparsest tread, I found the XR4's in a 2.4" really great on my 140mm trail bike and my mate flies along on XR2's but he's braver/more skilled than me. I really like Rekon/Rekon Race as a fast trail tyre too.

Ardents look like they might work, in 2.35. That’d save half a kilo off my wheels.

The new version Forekaster looks interesting as a fast trail tyre.

I think Ardents are kind of 'okay' in an unremarkable way. Rekons feel better to me and the Ardent Race is good for a mix of speed and grip, at least on rocks. I ran an XR4 for a bit and quite liked it, but thought the Maxxis rubber compounds just felt grippier.

I used to LOVE putting the XC rear tyre on my ht every spring. It felt like i was an XC pro for a while every year.

then invariably i`d slice teh tyre wide open on the local flints and have to put the DH tyre back on while weeping at the loss of my newfound XC prowess. But, my god, a lightweight tyre made a huge difference!

If you are pedalling about then you definitely want to sacrifice some DH gnarr/grip for rolling speed. they did a reinforced larsenTT one year which was easily the best summer tyre ever. fast, completely driftastic and (more) flint resistant.

now i dont pedal about so much i dont really mind a draggy tyre. I`m in it for the mucking about not the miles.

Interesting reading this. My bike came with Assegai MaxxTerra's front and back (!) and while the grip is great they do drag a bit. Really liked the Bonty XR5/4 combo on my previous bike so am after something similar in Maxxis flavour - thinking Dissector on the rear as mentioned previously?

Compound matters more than tread for rolling resistance, and EXo+ vs EXo casing is less than tire to tire variation.
Maxxterra is Maxxis’ middle of the road compound. It’s similar to Schwalbe’s Addix Soft (probably little slower, but not much).

So, if you want faster, you should look at rubber mostly. Faster compound in the rear would help. Faster tread design would help a bit too, but I wouldn’t go lighter on the casing in the rear. Very little gain, and too much risk of flats in the rear.

Faster rubber in front would run the risk of crashing, and has less effect than in the rear on rolling speed.

I rode down the gently downhill cycle path to my house the other day and I had to pedal, I wasn't gaining any speed despite being downhill!

They're not made of chewing gum 🙂

The only tyres i've really struggled like that with are Michelin DH22s, but they're incrediby grippy and really not designed for rolling speed.

Anything else is fair game for me. I think i've got MaxxTerra on both ends on the Slayer and XC happily on it.

I had a DD Agressor on the rear. Hated it. Put on an XR4. Different bike!

This was on a Bird Aeris. I think you can lighten up some components like tyres and cranks on a fully that you need more tonk on a hardtail.