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I'm too busy riding with my friends to be wringing my hands about whether MTB should be equally represented in both genders.
But also, I dont really care.
If someone wants to ride, they'll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.
MTB is such that you can dictate the terms of your own engagement with the 'culture'. You can go all out and immerse yourself in the club and race scene, or start your own. You can ride with just the people you like, your spouse or solo.
You just need the maturity to think for yourself and ignore the shit you dont like. The world has ever been thus, for everything, and it wont substantively change any time soon.
I've left a few MTB facebook groups of late because they seem to be full of mostly young lads (the future of what we do), making bigoted comments about peoples choice of bike, wheel size, and genitals.
Frankly, I don't have time for that BS.
It probably is, but as a bloke, I'm not really qualified to say so, what I do know, is that some of the people involved in MTB are horrible, intolerant arse's, who think it's fine to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever.
Personally, I think it's unacceptable to be any of that. I just enjoy riding my bikes.
can’t be bothered to support it.
If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.
That sort of attitude won't help widen participation, to increase diversity you need to take positive action.
Problem is though, the majority of people just don't care. About most issues with the "sport" as it's so broad really. I don't ride downhill, enduro or competitively so couldn't care less about funding for racing. I'm never going to Scotland so don't pay any attention to their access and how it's better. Less people in the sport? Less people in trail centre car parks. No trail centres, I'll ride cheeky trails.
Doesn't mean I want people to be put off, no way should gender, sexuality or ethnicity stop you from taking part. But equally, I'm not going to go out and do anything about it either. Which should make me feel bad, but doesn't.
Fortunately, the undesirables do tend to collectivise in their own echo chambers so they're pretty easy to identify and avoid.
mostly young lads (the future of what we do), making bigoted comments about peoples choice of bike, wheel size, and genitals.
Its still not acceptable but - 'A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life'.
- Muhammad Ali.
Some of those guys are still learning to be decent human beings. Some will never make it.
Annabelle, it's good to hear that younger women riders don't face similar prejudice as older women, maybe it's a generational problem.
How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?
Would you feel comfortable entering the Virgin or Whore's categories?
I know that it was established by women, but it appears sycophantic in asserting that women are just a ride and a conquest. Is there another national sport that officially refers to women like that?
I used to work as a groom, I'm well used to a tumble, getting dirty, and having to put the physical effort in. Casual sexism and misogyny aside, I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.
If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.
Women still need to buy bikes though. Would you be enthused to go buy one if the local shop dismissed you/only spoke to your (different gender) SO about your purchase?
Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?
If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride.
Agreed.
Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.
Has something to do with it for some people, I think. Marketing is often what makes people notice so many things that don't come directly from their friends. If bike companies only ever show 'Bro culture' and bike shops are staffed by blokes who think MTB is a bloke's sport/thing it will influence who rides in the longer term. 'People like us do things like this'.
I can think of 2 non-MTB events that saw an obvious change in the gender balance when they encouraged more women to enter. No major marketing/message effort needed, just a subtle change in how things were done and perhaps most of it came from just making it clear the events welcomed all riders. For some it's not an issue but for other women knowing they wouldn't be the 5% minority there made the difference.
I've yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover. Chicken. Egg. Chicken. Egg...
Would you be enthused to go buy one if the local shop dismissed you/only spoke to your (different gender) SO about your purchase?
Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?
No, I wouldn't, and its not acceptable, but its not restricted to gender/sexuality. Noobs, kids, teenagers and riders of any persuasion that are perceived to be of lesser skill or not a 'bro' can be/are subjected to this stuff too.
You can use your valuable time and energy fighting injustice, or you can get on with your life and develop some resilience, and cut out those types of people, hence my comments in my last paragraph about maturity.
Which you choose I think, depends on your personality.
Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?
That's LONG been a "thing" though, both men and women. I thought it was a hangover from the old days of the traditional roadie club where old blokes would mutter under their breath about these young whippersnapers, no respect, this new fangled gear. I remember road racing in the mid 90's with guys who would sneer at STIs (still a relatively new thing then) insisting that their downtube shifters were still perfectly good. And you get exactly the same now with e-bikes. In between it, there's been sneering and derogatory comments about more gears, carbon fibre and disc brakes plus the usual dyed-in-the-wool "knowledge" (old wives tales...) about how you should always do this that or the other.
In some respects, that publication of the Velominati Rules, originally intended to be tongue in cheek soon came full circle and went so far up its own arse that it's now used to sneer and belittle riders in a whole new way.
I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.
as a house-husband that has worked part time unsociable hours for the past 10 years I disagree with that statement.
I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover
Honestly I've left this thread well alone, but you'd have to have gone out of your way not to notice. I've got three from the pile of just 7-8 in the smallest room reading material collection (2 from Singletrack Anka Martin on the front of 126, and a couple (man and woman) on the cover of 128), and one from MBUK (Manon Carpenter on the front of Jan this year) I can think of times either Tahnee or Rachel has been on the cover of various mags as well.
This publication (and by that I mean the website as well as the printed mags), has a pretty even split in their editorial team who write, and they write about bikes, not just "bikes for women", or variations on that theme, although when they do, it's often thought provoking and insightful. Cycling Weekly appointed a female Tech Editor recently as well. I think it's incumbent on all of us to try to be as inclusive as we can. I think (perhaps controversially) bike centres like CYB and BPW and Swinley have done huge amounts to make mountain biking a "destination activity" and e-bikes make it easier to ride together if you're differing in endurance or strength (and that cuts both ways). Future looks bright, but we've got to want it to happen, and make it happen.
Not MTB specifically, but the comments on this Cycling UK post from yesterday about an LGBT club are genuinely depressing...
That was supposed to be a link to an FB post.
You can see it here if you scroll down...
How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?
I don’t have any of my old copies of Dirt but I would be AMAZED if none of them had a female MTBer on the cover. I remember their coverage of the female half of the WC DH being good, and likewise the early years of EWS.
I think it’s important that we strive to be more inclusive, maybe I’m more aware of it since having two daughters (and a son in between).
The “29ers are gay” comments on Pinkbike etc feel so weird, like they’re from a bygone era, but I live in Brighton so I’m definitely in a more forward thinking bubble. I think only one of my riding mates is gay (it’s not exactly something we talk about - thankfully the days of “phoar look at her” banter are past) and he’s a bloody good rider, really ballsy and fast, sometimes lets his bravery get ahead of his skills (which are better than mine). We did a race together some years back and he was starting behind me and overtook me on pretty much every stage!
It’s always nice when we have some female riders in our group, just feels a good thing even though the riding and conversation doesn’t change. That’s the thing really - we’re just humans who like MTBing. Within that there are lots of subsets of what types of riding we’re into but that doesn’t seem to be affected in any way by gender, sexuality, colour, etc.
How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?
I don't know, but let's hope they are better thought out than this one...
I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.
How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?
They’re all being ‘mature’ and letting it happen, apparently. Because it can’t be changed, as it’s always been this way.🙄
“I don’t know, but let’s hope they are better thought out than this one…
“I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.””
Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?
I'm maybe privileged in that I live in a bit of a local "bubble" in an area most folk moved to because of the availability of outdoor activities - including cycling. However, I no longer really notice the sex of the cyclists I see, it's simply not an issue. Local Strava segments, my Instagram/Flickr feeds etc. are full of female riders, just as they are with male riders. The most active MTB group in the area is a women's group and it's definitely the case that some women prefer that option if they're not riding alone or with a partner.
What I don't see, and therefore notice, are many non-White faces, but then there are very few in the area. We do have a high number of Eastern Europeans and Antipodeans, again here because of the outdoor activities.
Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?
Yes, I have studied humanities, including sociology and psychology. Poah is an exception, and even where men do pull their weight on practical terms, it tends to be the woman who bears the mental burden of organising the household for things like appointments and food shopping. On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hrs, on top of working full time.
It's interesting that that's the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women-men-household-chores-domestic-house-gender-norms-a9021586.html%3famp
Which you choose I think, depends on your personality.
It's not necessarily a choice, you could do some of both. Depends on the nature of it, what you've experienced, etc.
Is horse riding still too misogynistic?
@kerley each family is different so rather unfair to generalise, imo.
I wasn't generalising at all, but whoever wrote this certainly was which was my point about ill thought out comments...
I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.
What I don’t see, and therefore notice, are many non-White faces
We did a survey of more than 10,000 UK MTBers a few years ago, publicised through cycling websites and social media.
I believe there were a vanishingly small number of ethnic minority respondents - and I probably prompted a few of those by asking somebody off here to share with his riding group that I was aware of.
I don't recall the proportion of females, but it was reflective of the previously known ratio and probably in the teens somewhere.
Don't think we captured sexuality.
It’s interesting that that’s the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores.
I remember that. It seemed to split female riders, though I got the impression most of the actual participants were happy with it. Both words do have other connotations (any novice could be called a trail virgin, we talk about brand whores) but there are definitely some more unpleasant tones when applied to women.
What is the female equivalent of ladism?
I believe there were a vanishingly small number of ethnic minority respondents
Yeah, I can imagine. As I said, there are loads of non-native riders here. I wonder if it's the same concentration in some other locations but simply not widespread.
It’s interesting that that’s the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores
it was a woman only race series so why would I care what they called the different categories?
On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hr
what about the woman that think men should still be doing certain jobs. My wife buys stuff for the house then expects me to sort it while she sits on her ass. Woman are just as sexist as men are if not more. Woman don't want equality they want equity.
It’s not necessarily a choice, you could do some of both. Depends on the nature of it, what you’ve experienced, etc.
Agreed. Its going to be a 'work in progress' for generations. There are too many slights of existence to be dealt with in one lifetime!
nickc
Subscriber
I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front coverHonestly I’ve left this thread well alone, but you’d have to have gone out of your way not to notice. I’ve got three from the pile of just 7-8 in the smallest room reading material collection (2 from Singletrack Anka Martin on the front of 126, and a couple (man and woman) on the cover of 128), and one from MBUK (Manon Carpenter on the front of Jan this year) I can think of times either Tahnee or Rachel has been on the cover of various mags as well.
this...and not just the covers; Mrs R has certainly noticed that both the editorial & advert photos seem to have a good mix of men & women
Poah and Kerley, I've provided evidence in an earlier post which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities, there will be exceptions but they are not the norm.
it was a woman only race series so why would I care what they called the different categories?
You'd be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?
Imagine if mens races were categorised by their sexual prowess? Who's riding in the Impotent race?
https://www.rootsandrain.com/race4479/2016-jul-23-air-maiden-maidenduro-innerleithen/results/
You’d be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?
I'd be happy for my wife or daughter to decide for themselves whether or not they chose to endorse the event by participating, which is not to say that that there was a surfeit of good alternatives. As I said, opinion at the time, amongst women riders I know, appearedtto be mostly OK with it.
Wasn't the air maiden event organised by women though? Apologies if i got this wrong.
Faerie, when I said this: "Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?" in response to Kerley, I was agreeing with you!
My wife is a so-called non-working mother who actually works far more hours than me, even though I run my own business and try to pull my weight with the kids and house.
"Yes, I have studied humanities, including sociology and psychology. Poah is an exception, and even where men do pull their weight on practical terms, it tends to be the woman who bears the mental burden of organising the household for things like appointments and food shopping. On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hrs, on top of working full time."
There will be exceptions but in many families this is the case - I've seen it with friends during lock-down - the dad is working in the home office all day and then appears expecting dinner. The mum is doing everything else - and if you've tried to home school children whilst running the house you'll know that's harder work than driving a laptop!
I remember that. It seemed to split female riders, though I got the impression most of the actual participants were happy with it.
That does seem a bit self-selecting, though - if you really don't like the names you probably won't take part.
And apropos of nothing, I went out on my MTB with my 16 year old daughter just yesterday 🙂
That does seem a bit self-selecting, though – if you really don’t like the names you probably won’t take part.
Yeah, and as I said, it's not like there were loads of other events to choose from either.
My apologies Chiefgrooveguru, I miss read your post.
Blackflag: Yes it is, as I said earlier.
Scotroutes, I think women entered the event as it's the format that appeals, but there were a few reservations about the category names. The female equivalent ladism is ladette, Denise Van Outen looked like she was having fun and I totally embraced the culture in the early '90s behaving just as badly as the boys. Whilst I may aspire to be a whore in the bedroom I don't in a bike event 🤣
Poah and Kerley, I’ve provided evidence in an earlier post which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities, there will be exceptions but they are not the norm.
Well done. The comment I picked up on was still a generalisation though. People make time for the things they want to do in life. I don't have any more spare time than my wife does (in fact I have far less) but I still cycle every Saturday and Sunday without fail because it is important to me. My wife makes time for the things that are important to her. She could spend more time riding a bike than I do but she chooses to do gardening. She actually detests cycling and thinks they are all ****ers but I digress.
It is not a competition about who has the most or least spare time it is about whether the spare time you do have is spent riding a bike or not.
I always took the owning of terms like whore in that event to be a strong feminist statement, taking back control of the term used to subjugate. But what women chose to call themselves is a matter for them and i'd be no more comfortable saying if this was right or wrong than i would be being white and commenting on the use of the N word.
I wasn’t generalising at all, but whoever wrote this certainly was which was my point about ill thought out comments…
@kerley am actually agreeing with you cos I found the original comment by another user to be pretty inflammatory and not conducive to a sensible discussion.
Woman don’t want equality they want equity.
The overriding issue here isn't what men want or what women want, it's one of generalisation. Assuming that you can categorise men, women, whites, blacks, Chinese, French, gay people etc just based on that characteristic.
Women don't all want the same thing any more than you want what I want.
I think one of the big obstacles is that mountain biking as a whole is not beginner friendly. As mentioned above, the 'bro culture', feeling out of place in a shop, having a mid ride mechanical you can't fix or having to push down a section of trail... add all this into a sport that is currently male dominated and it could easily feel like you're being excluded.
My ex girlfriend got into riding whilst we were together and her issue was finding people to ride with at her level and places to ride. She wanted it to be her own hobby, not just tagging along with me. After a few solo laps of Swinley she got bored and moved on to climbing.
I've certainly never seen any misogyny within my current riding group when we've had women join us, but the difference being they've always been competent riders, not beginners.
On a related note, I think women's DH has some great ambassadors at present and I can't wait to see a category with a number of potential race winners once we're back racing. It'll be interesting if we see this being converted into race entries.
You’d be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?
Imagine if mens races were categorised by their sexual prowess? Who’s riding in the Impotent race?
Wouldn't care - Their choice to enter and have an opinion on the categories.
which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities
Ever think they choose to do it. We share responsibility in our house and we certainly don't count up the hours to make sure we spit it 50/50. Sorry but if you can't make time to do something you want to do then you are in a bad relationship.
and if you’ve tried to home school children whilst running the house you’ll know that’s harder work than driving a laptop
Your home schooling must be different to mine. It couldn't be easier.
I stand corrected, (kind of)
I've got all the 2019 issues of mbuk and all of the front covers feature a motley assortment of fairly ugly blokes (sorry!!!).
Before the lockdown, I'd try to get a quick swatch of mbr and stw as I meandered through the supermarket. Obviously my 'quest' has not been thorough enough.
People can tell me to 'cluck right off', but in the interests of gender equality, I'd like to say... bring out the chix😊
“Your home schooling must be different to mine. It couldn’t be easier.”
It depends on so many factors. We have a free spirit of a 7 year old who is away in imagination land with little desire for structured work, a very busy 4 year old who keeps asking me to do “pluses” with him and the world’s most impatient and intolerant 6 month old.
I imagine your children are different, most are.
5, 10 and a 15 year old.
She also join the local roller derby... ... She ended up finding it very clicky
Same here, my missus went through the same thing when she got pregnant. Sod 'em.
I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover. Chicken. Egg. Chicken. Egg…
Have been for years, not as regularly as the males granted but then they are less represented.
Singletrack have as well but the link is broken. May 2015
How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?
Two by my count, I'm not including you because you haven't actually expressed an opinion for reasons only you know.
How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?
Would you feel comfortable entering the Virgin or Whore’s categories?Is there another national sport that officially refers to women like that?
Whoa, that's one event, not an entire national sport. Let's keep this in perspective. I can see how both sides of opinion come to their conclusions but
what women chose to call themselves is a matter for them and i’d be no more comfortable saying if this was right or wrong than i would be being white and commenting on the use of the N word.
I'm not about to mansplain to a woman who organised a women only event why it's misogynistic. Yes, I can see why it is problematic but I can also see that's not at all the spirit in which it was intended (self-deprecation being a fine Scottish tradition). For that reason I would have no problem at all if my wife or daughter earned such a title. And even that that's MY problem; my approval doesn't, and shouldn't count for anything.
Poah - I would be interested in your other halfs take on this
If a female only riding race wanted to have categories of virgin to whores would I be offended by it, no. Asked my misses if she would and again she said no but did say she could see if others could be offended.
The roller derby that I talked about previously was very much pin up girl, short hot pants, tongue in cheek player names and girl power vibe about it. Your first game was always known as the cherry popper. They do have a very small men’s following but again they didn’t do any real encouragement to get me involved to the level that the women’s teams had. The men’s teams were more of an after thought. Again the kit itself isn’t cheap (skates could be couple of hundred quid, then pads and helmet) so to give it a try you would need to borrow gear which they didn’t have. My main point is that any event is hard to market and equally encourage everyone from every background without offending.
Poah – I would be interested in your other halfs take on this
Take on what specific part?
Interesting topic, one that could apply to many sports I suppose.
Part of the challenge for me is trying to understand what is meant when people say "mountain biking" as one homogenous sport or pastime. Jumping in the woods 50:01 style, racing DH, racing XC, bikepacking or going for a family ride around a trail centre would all look like mountain biking I suppose, but how I imagine the participants (for right or wrong) varies a bit for me, through my own prism and experiences. I guess that's the perception element, then!
For me, I'd never have been attracted to mountain bikes in the 1990s if it was all Geoff Apps and the Rough Stuff Fellowship. That isn't "mountain biking" to my perception of the sport, but it is obviously riding bikes off road, so clearly I'm skewed. As for so many, it was the rise of the "rad" element of DH in the 90s that attracted me, boozing, jumping through fires and unattractive behaviour and all.
So the point of my rambling is this - when people look at "mountain biking" and are put off, what do they see? I can't judge that, but it seems unfair to point a finger at one corner of the sport and shout "it's that lot with the spliff/stickers/beard.." 🙂
I know Manon has been on the front of MBUK twice, Tahnee once, Rachel Atherton at least once and Vero Sandler in the last 2 months 👍
How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?
I wouldn’t enter or support an event with sexually-themed category titles. For me, it’s inappropriate, and I would find it disrespectful; however, others may not relate to my point of view and may look on it in a positive way. It’s all good - variety is the spice of life, as they say.
Over the years I’ve mostly ridden as the only female in a group of males. Mostly this has been a lot of fun. Lots of general banter, which I enjoy - only occasional male-oriented banter (if you get my drift, I’m trying to be polite) - and this would only occur in larger groups with people I’d never met before. On those occasions I didn’t feel offended, but I did feel excluded - but not that big a deal - I’m fairly adept at closing my ears and minding my own business - it wouldn’t put me off, but I wouldn’t choose to ride with those folk again.
What did put me off riding with a group of males was the feeling of holding everyone back. I’ve almost always been the slowest in the group, even while being a competent rider at my own pace. It’s not much fun to feel like a pain in everyone’s backside. But ... I’ve ridden with some really fast guys and had a great time, and never once felt like I was holding them back - I was holding them back, but they had lovely manners and included me as part of the group regardless of my speed.
In my own experience, riding with other women is more relaxed - the pace is more happily suited to the slowest of the group, and the atmosphere is one of encouragement. I haven’t been able to ride for the last few years and am currently planning my grand return to mtb. I'll likely ride solo most of the time, perhaps sometimes with female friends. I would feel the need to get my fitness, technical skills and confidence back to a high level before considering riding with a group of men ... but would be keen to do that ... variety is the spice of life, as they say ... wait, did I say that before? ;o)
I suspect mtb is much the same as any other area of life - some people are respectful and mannerly towards others regardless of their gender and the specific situation - others, not so much.
Rona, riding with others who make you feel like you are holding them back is never pleasant. It used to happen to me all the time, but then the "fit group" all became roadies. There is a certain competitive alpha type thing that's (understandably) quite prevalent in MTB. I ride with mates, we natter, we wait, we have fun. I'd suggest just finding a group that likes the aspects of MTB you like rather than be dictated too much by gender.
Oh and the "fit group" also contained girls who left me behind as well 🙂
I’ve almost always been the slowest in the group
This is me on pretty much every group ride I go on up and down the trails lol
Blackflag - thanks, great advice. Yup, definitely prefer the chatting, fun type of ride. I have, on occasion, left a male rider behind ... but it was generally because they were injured, or their bike was broken!
poah - I feel your pain. My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time. My partner would ride back down the hill to see what was keeping me, ride alongside for a while until he got bored, and then accelerate off in a cloud of dust. Drove me bonkers, but still makes me laugh!
poah – I feel your pain. My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time
yes although the last time I rode with people Mctrail rider and cathro did wait before going on and shouted "encouraging words" when I was near the top of the mountain.
ha ha - I can imagine!
People who do that are dicks Rona. Its just bad form.
Thanks tj - appreciated.
I suspect mtb is much the same as any other area of life – some people are respectful and mannerly towards others regardless of their gender and the specific situation – others, not so much.
Indeed. I've been on all-male rides with a wide range of abilities and I've seen the slowest rider left behind and almost forgotten about as the faster riders ride up and chat away. And yes, I did stay back and ride with him.
“My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time.“
This is the worst! In my local posse we have a laidback Thursday group which mostly rides the singletrack, and then a fast Tuesday group which does more XC miles.
To keep the pace up the Tuesday group does the “last rider basically never gets a rest thing”, so if you’re not having an easy time on Thursday evening you don’t try Tuesdays! But that works because we have a slower ride with much less of that competitive silliness (and it’s a few years since I did a Tuesday, not sure if I could keep up now...)
Wow, who'd have thought that the "sexist **** of the thread" award would go to a woman! Or is faery actually a 13 year old boy and helping prove the thread's assertion? Never read such tripe in my life. If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.
I would say it’s a lot better than it was and it’s pretty much always been better than road riding. I dabbled in that for a while and it was proper weird - finding races with a women’s category was an issue just for a start.
I’m lucky that I’m pretty fit so I’m usually mid pack on mixed rides and no one has really given me much of a second glance - at least since I got a few skills.
I like that Singletrack has had a few women on the front cover and generally in pictures - I don’t think you have to make a big deal about women riding but if we only ever see blokes in pictures then it does make (me at least) feel a bit invisible. Likewise blokey advertising is a bit ‘is this really for me? Are you really trying to just appeal to 50% of your potential market?’ - I’m thinking of that ad with a near naked woman holding knee pads over her tits. That is certainly not where I wear them.
If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.
By that, presumably you think men do more? Depends on the home, no?
If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.
I think you'll find that faeries assertion is based very much on facts gathered through various studies, but don't let that get in the way of your unnecessary rant.
Oooo, that's toxic lustyd. Can you be civil? I backed up what I said with a link to evidence, not with insults and I recognise that there are exceptions. Why are people taking it so personally and attacking me? Don't speculate as to my personal circumstances, that's just plain nasty. I think that you are confirming what I said earlier about misogyny and sycophantic behaviour, a woman can't have an informed difference of opinion of her own.
Have a cup of tea dear.
calomine?
Faeries assertion is literally the same thing as saying women don't cycle because they are too fragile. It's utter nonsense and is entirely the problem. People are free to do what they want, you want to go cycling? go for it. You want to look after children? go for it. None of these things require genitalia to achieve. We need to defend men at least as much as we defend women to move forwards, and that kind of pushback is just harmful no matter how many "facts" and "studies" you care to quote.
"I backed up what I said with a link to evidence"
No you didn't, there is no evidence here, just studies by people trying to earn a degree using statistics to prove their point. You're not helping either side, you're just stiring the pot and I'm calling you out on it. suggesting men aren't capable or happy in the home is just as bad as suggesting women like to wear pink satin and hate mud. You're not helpful, no matter how intellectual you think you're being. In reality you're just a troll like the rest of them.
Been on the ale tonight lustyd? Maybe step away from the internet for a bit.
No Tom, I just hate sexist people like Faerie. The statement that women have more responsibility in the home is ridiculous in any stable relationship. Responsibility is shared and if you end up otherwise that's your own doing.
Somebody needs a shag.
If that's the case Scotroutes, try Tinder. But wait until the lockdown is over first...
Responsibility is shared and if you end up otherwise that’s your own doing.
I think what is being said is that it can be shown that in a majority of cases (As shown in studies), it ends up otherwise, possibly through choice, possibly necessity, whatever. I imagine a proper 50/50 split is a rare thing, despite it being the ideal. No need to go on a rant dishing out insults to folk relaying the results.
So we need to push mens issues on a thread about misogyny, ignoring the barriers which prevent women from cycling?
And you do this by being aggressive and insulting and in effect telling a mature woman to shut up?
Has someone upset you? There's some great threads on here which have supported other forum users, I hope you find a safe and satisfying outlet for your frustrations. I charge by the hour for "therapy" sessions
Scotroutes, I have a special green tea guaranteed to make you say ahhhh.
Tom it's not the "facts" it's the way they are used, and the way "she" used them was extremely discriminatory. Women don't have an exclusive on being offended by sexist behaviour and statements, and if someone suggests that as a man you can't raise a family then it's absolutely right to reject that behaviour. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how you dress it up, and we should all fight against these trolls to ensure a more fair future for everyone. As it happens I think mountain biking is one of the more equal sports at all levels with very little real discrimination. As for the OP, some people like pictures of bodies, boobs and boners. That's not sexist, it's just a picture and the offence is imaginary. Throughout history the human body and its various parts have featured in art on stone walls, caves, tattoos, canvas and bike parts. Making a penis out of marble in Italy is no different, yet it draws the crowds every summer because it's "art".
"ignoring the barriers which prevent women from cycling?"
There are zero barriers preventing women from cycling. How is that hard to understand? Buy a bike, ride it, it's literally that simple. I know a lot of men who won't go cycling due to internal mental barriers, that's not a gender issue that's a personal issue. Learn the difference and I guarantee you'll have a happier and more productive life. Men are not stopping you cycling. We won't do something bad if you're cycling on "our" trails. We literally don't care as long as you don't call us fat in lycra.