[Closed] Is it time for another Critical Mass thread?

there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!

surely its attempted murder/reckless driving at minimum...

Calling all STW Clarksons...

We need a psychological assessment as part of the driving test... to think that's the best course of action they could take, that driver is not fit to be in charge of a tonne of metal when other people are around...

there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!

No there aren't.

It is somewhat unfortunate that the incident will reinforce the idea of cycling as a hazardous activity, and perhaps delay the development of that elusive 'critical mass'...

No no one deserves it though I would sum it up as

Antagonistic pricks on bikes encounter antagonistic pricks in cars

Large metal box "wins" confrontation

I would not like to defend either behaviour tbh and both are dangerous- I am sure we will all agree the car is though the view re critical mass may be more controversial on here

Still if you go out knowing you will annoy car drivers we all know what will happen it aint right but I would rather be alive than correct personally

This programe was on BBC2 on tuesday now on Iplayer, it features the novel idea,of driving into london in a car, and also features critical mass events and lots of bikes, some nice buses as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b037mx3f/The_Route_Masters_Running_Londons_Roads_The_Future/

nealglover - Member
there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!
No there aren't.

go look back at the thread from last year neil-- sounded like a lot of animosity to me !

Anyone who is so inconsiderate that they delay someone (like me) from getting to a hospital to see a critically ill close relative before its too late does not get my vote.

No no one deserves it though I would sum it up as

Antagonistic pricks on bikes encounter antagonistic pricks in cars

Large metal box "wins" confrontation

I would not like to defend either behaviour tbh and both are dangerous- I am sure we will all agree the car is though the view re critical mass may be more controversial on here

Still if you go out knowing you will annoy car drivers we all know what will happen it aint right but I would rather be alive than correct personally

^^ This. I always think of critical mass type things as massively divisive - they portray cyclists as some kind of "us and them" holier than thou zealots and further widen the gap between us and other road users.

Aligning more towards the anarchist way of doing things is never the right way to go about things IMO.

Not for a moment agreeing with or justifying the motorist's actions, but I can see how if I was a stressed out London worker, wanting to get home and held up by a bunch of "protesters" deliberately acting in a way to block the roads and prevent my progress, I might be a bit annoyed..... Some people just take it too far.

there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!

Who the **** thinks that? Sorry but if anyone does think that then they're no better than the car driver that supposedly ran someone over

there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!

No, there really aren't. I am very critical of CMs, they do no good as far as I can see. But nothing excuses the behaviour of those car drivers (if the eye witness reports are correct)

No one deserves to be run over.

Nobody 'deserves it'. full stop.

but Lets just ask who thinks they're happy having Critical Mass be the face of cycling. Which it is to a lot of people. Unfortunately. They're a bunch of juvenile, biblical scale bell ends, and the greatest service they could do to the cause they purport to support is to **** off!

I've no experience of Critical Mass events, but are they really [i]that[/i] much of a disruption? I'm guessing that rush hour traffic in London is worse. With a lot of people making non-essential car journeys - journeys that can be made on foot / by bike / on public transport / etc.

Re-claiming the streets just once a month to create a safe and fun environment to cycle in doesn't seem all that selfish to me when everyone else is doing it for the rest of the month...

Where's that chap who popped up on the last CM thread, the one who
[s]organises[/s]
[s]doesn't organise[/s]
[s]speaks on behalf of CM[/s]
[s]isn't a CM spokeperson[/s]
by some fluke sounds like he organises CM but actually doesn't?

but I can see how if I was [b]a stressed out London worker, wanting to get home and held up by a bunch of "protesters" deliberately acting in a way to block the roads and prevent my progress,[/b] I might be a bit annoyed

For streesed london worker should they really be incharge of a heavy metal vehicle capable of killing cyclists, because they had a bad day at the workpalce, lots of things block onward travel in most cirties, trafic lights, deelivery vans, buses and coaches, accidents roadworks etc, most mentally balance people dont deliberately run down traffic lights or crash into buses because theyre held up.

For stressed driver change to mentally ill, iundiagnosed as yet.

Anyone who is so inconsiderate that they delay someone (like me) from getting to a hospital to see a critically ill close relative before its too late does not get my vote.

Does this apply to the cars, buses and lorries that delay me everyday?

Junkyard - lazarus
No no one deserves it though I would sum it up as

Antagonistic pricks on bikes encounter antagonistic pricks in cars

Large metal box "wins" confrontation

I would not like to defend either behaviour tbh and both are dangerous- I am sure we will all agree the car is though the view re critical mass may be more controversial on here

Still if you go out knowing you will annoy car drivers we all know what will happen it aint right but I would rather be alive than correct personally

That about just sums it up for me.

there are many on here who think they 'deserve' it !!

I don't see why not supporting an "agenda free" non-protest, [I]movement[/I] that basically sets the cause of cycling in the UK back automatically equates to having sympathy for road-ragey toss bandits?

Anyone who is so inconsiderate that they delay someone (like me) from getting to a hospital to see a critically ill close relative before its too late does not get my vote.

For what it's worth, I had to rush home yesterday (friday) evening as my 4 month son was having a severe allergic reaction, which meant he was hospitalised.

If a bunch of people, be it on bikes, cars, or foot, deliberately held me up, I wouldn't like to say what would of happened.

Noahs fine now 🙂

Antagonistic pricks on bikes encounter antagonistic pricks in cars

Doesnt means one not right and the others wrong.

ala everyones fave.

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I dont think anyone disagrees much with the message of critical mass - of course it does not have one as it is not a protest just a group of like minded folk enjoying a pastime- what we question is whether their methods will achieve their goals

Personally i think they will not and worse they are counter productive as many drivers lose respect for cyclists as they annoyed them and held them up- this is what they will think when they think cyclists - this is nothing like you getting stuck in traffic as those folk are not really trying to hold you up, block junctions etc they are just trying to get somewhere in over crowded roads.
Shared space is about mutual respect not mutual disrespect

Comparing them to the black struggle for rights in apartheid South africa is at goodwin levels of Internet debate.

For what it's worth, I had to rush home yesterday (friday) evening as my 4 month son was having a severe allergic reaction, which meant he was hospitalised.

If a bunch of people, be it on bikes, cars, or foot, deliberately held me up, I wouldn't like to say what would of happened.

Noahs fine now

c*ck.

It was in central London anyone who drives to work there is a huge part of the problem. They pay £12 a day just to drive there and £30+ to park. There's almost no need for it.
It's not like your parochial little town in the provinces, it's the capital, it has the largest number of cyclists in the uk, who pay for the roads through their taxes and have a right to use the roads unlike all other users who only use them under license.

Indeed I mean he was concerned for his childs welfare and want to be there ....its like he wanted to use the transport network to transport him 😕

have a right to use the roads unlike all other users who only use them under license.

As far as i am aware all road users contribute to road so it would seem reasonable that in a shared use system they can all use them and no user or group should deliberately block them

go look back at the thread from last year neil-- sounded like a lot of animosity to me !

I don't need to look back at the thread, I posted a fair bit on it, and I was very critical or Critical Mass.

But it's a bit of a Drama Queen leap to say that just because people on here disagree with their methods, anyone thinks they deserve to be run over. Let alone "many on here"

I would say none personally. But you may have convicted yourself otherwise.

(Ps: its Neal not Neil 😉 )

Excusing him from running into and over other peoples sons and daughters?

Enlighten me ianw. Why am I a cock?

Here we go. Pricks and juvenile bell ends on a forum claiming critical mass participants are pricks and juvenile bell ends. I would call that ironic!

But what about Timmy and Tarquin.. they had the sniffles and a legal procession deliberately held me up. WTF? People manage at all other legal processions so suck it up.

And don't forget the poor stressed out London workers who are so caught up in their own little world that they have missed the fact that these rides have been going on for around 20 years.

Thankfully Junkyard the world does not give a shit what you think.

Planet STW never ceases to amaze 😀

Warton, what would have happened if you'd been held up?
Shouting?
Punching?
Hitting with crowbar?
Running them down with a car?

Only a cock would suggest theres an excuse for running people over, thats what your saying?

sometimes I totally see this from junkyard's point of view.. other times I quite enjoy the petty anarchism and rebelliousness of the critical mass idea..

FWIW if I was rushing to the aid of my kid and encountered wilful resistance.. there would definitely be punching and shouting

love these threads 😀

Where's that chap who popped up on the last CM thread, the one who
....
... by some fluke sounds like he organises CM but actually doesn't?

The story sounds disgraceful, and I hope none were badly hurt, but some CM have hit the critical mass of being a nuisance and antagonising to make a political statement, and participation in them has to be on the grounds that anyone taking part understands that they may be involved in an incident with either other road users or police (that they wouldn't be involved in if they rode the route at any other time).

Just as a comparison, just 1 day ago there was another CM post posted here that sounds exactly like a CM should be. Just nice friendly ride for the sake of having a nice friendly ride.

useless hippy.

I don't know. for a bit of background (and you never know, the guy in the BMW may of been experiencing similar.)

I got a call saying my 4 month old son couldn't breath, literally, couldn't breathe. At that point, theres a possibility he could die.

I had to get home to help out the best i could, calm my hysterical wife, make sure my 3 year old was OK, and get back in time so he didn't have to go in the ambulance with my wife and 4 month old.

Soooo, if a bunch of guys, on bikes (or on cars, on foot, whatever) [b]deliberately [/b] hold me up, as much as i love bikes, and absolutely want a better solution for bike travel, I'm not going to shrug my shoulders and say, oh well, better wait for these guys to make their point.

Would I have deliberately run them over? No, absolutely not.

Would I have been a bit aggressive in my attempts to pass them? I don't know TBH, The way I was feeling yesterday, probably.

If that makes me a cock, so be it.

Obviously a very extreme scenario, but those scenarios are out there.

On a normal day, I'd wind down my window, listen to some music and chill out.

Enlighten me ianw. Why am I a cock?

Well for a start, calling your son Noah, and thus bringing on this current deluge of rain.

Enlighten me ianw. Why am I a cock?
Well for a start, calling your son Noah, and thus bringing on this current deluge of rain.

😆

Thankfully Junkyard the world does not give a shit what you think.

You pretty much some up the **** you and you rights attitude of critical mass which is a rather misguided response and protest to the **** you attitude of some other road users to cyclist. the problem is a lack of mutual respect and not sharing the road space. How exactly does shwiing no respect and not sharing the road space help?

That how ill conceived these events are - they are the exact embodiment of what they object to incondsiderate road users

Yunki I have no issue with direct action per se but this is highly counter productive to the groups aims - I have no idea why the groups cannot see this tbh

As you note I assume most parents rushing to a seriously ill child would react unhappily to being deliberately delayed from getting there whihc wa show I took the statement rather than an actual threat of "direct action" to a perceived wrong

Really CM unfortunately you dont help cycling one bit

Junky and binners have basically nailed it.

I don't want anyone to think that CM represents cycling.

Junky and binners have basically nailed it.

Warton,
But from your original post, can you not see how people might think your a cock?
Someone, a fellow cyclist was deliberatly run down with a car, and you say " deliberately held me up, i wouldn't like too say what would of happened."
Someone used a car as a weapon, and you seem to be trying too justify it...

not at all. look at my first post. I was replying to someone in the thread who mentioned the possibility of hospitals etc.

FWIW. we have one witness account, who got told second hand of what happened at the junction. doesn't mean it didn't happen, but doesn't mean it happened exactly like he says it did.

By the way, I've been called a cock many times, but never, ever because I condone guys getting knocked off bikes!

seems being the operative word [ since clarified]- still better to discuss that than the CM tactics you support

IMO the biggest fools are the ones who think that CM act as some kind of spokesmen for 'cyclists'. It's just a group of people who ride around a city every now and again to make a variety of points to other road users. If you don't like it ask yourself what you are doing to promote your way of thinking to others. Not that you have to of course. I reckon the thing about CM and reactions to it are that ultimately it's just people on bikes, not 'cyclists', and people in cars, not 'drivers'. People who get pissed off by it are likely to get pissed off because its raining or because the old woman in front of them in the queue in the supermarket is taking ages to pay.

Aligning more towards the anarchist way of doing things is never the right way to go about things IMO.

This made me lol quite a lot.

Now here is an idea,100,s of us cyclists all ride in single file down a road,blocking all side junctions, blocking box junctions and the entrance to bus and bike lanes,refuse to let buses out from stops,stop and double park outside schools,ignore traffic signals,dont indicate left turns etc etc.

Welcome to the world of the commuter motorist.

People who get pissed off by it are likely to get pissed off because its raining or because the old woman in front of them in the queue in the supermarket is taking ages to pay.

I am spotting a trend here which is to attack/denigrate/insult those who criticise rather than explain how CM helps or explain what it achieves through its actions

I love positive action me 🙄

did anyone go last night?
I'm always tempted to go along and observe
what is the correct bicycle for such an event?

When did Mike Connor last post, anyway?

IIRC he was "discovered to be
" he whose name shall not be mentioned"

See I think you missed junkyards point.

He stated (and I agree) that running down anyone is inexcusable.

That CM antagonizes London drivers to the point where they behave like this is not surprising, its worrying but hardly a shock given the Uk's increasingly dickish car-centric culture and the unseasonably warm weather, tempers and egos are up generally...

CM causes disruption without having any real purpose, the main side-effect of which is to damage the perception of cycling in the minds of non-cyclists.

I am a cyclist, I don't support CM nor do I support angry, entitled drivers. Neither seem to benefit society much IMO Why does it have to be so black and white?

Yunki I have no issue with direct action per se but this is highly counter productive to the groups aims - I have no idea why the groups cannot see this tbh

I imagine cos 'the group' is largely a collection of folk fervently trying to find higher meaning in their lives..
There will be a variety of ways in which they try to do this.. all will be by their very nature, in some way perverse..
These lot are currently all using bicycles as their focus.. I don't imagine that any of them are thinking rationally about anything that might inhibit them from fulfilling their compulsive desire to be 'better than everyone else'

more power to their crazy revolution I say..

I could believe that.

That might explain why I "had no right to express an opinion" (presumably for moving from a London postcode to elsewhere) when attempting to make a genuine positive suggestion (both for CM, and for improving of London cycling infrastructure in a separate thread).

Cookeaa, very well put.

Millions of unorganised car drivers make big queues everyday for 4 hours and nobody bats an eyelid. It must cost millions!

50 people that ride bikes cause 10 mins of minor disruption once a month (if they can bothered) It's not even an issue or even close to anarchy.

Hit and run incidents are assault.
It's a valid protest. Let them get on with it. I don't want to live in a country where it gets banned. Because then people that ride bikes would have to organise even more!

Cbike, join a London commute. That's a REAL critical mass. Not some bunch of strokers looking to antagonize anyone they can, just masses and masses of people riding bikes.

Am I the only one who's noticed that when you click on the link,in the picture on the left is a very hairy dog with sunglasses on and riding a bike 😆

When does a person who owns a bike become a cyclist.

Might be a strange question but when I learnt to ride I was also taught how to use the road. I then learnt to drive a car and had to pass a test etc. Even in the more rural areas around where I live I see people I would consider cylists running reds. Then I see people who have absolutely no clue what so ever about the responsibilities of cycling riding through the local pedestrianised precinct, over pavements etc.

CM all consider themselves cyclists, probably, but how can we define them as its not a group, organisation etc. Its a bunch of people who go and ride badly enforcing negative stereotypes of cyclists. Blocking traffic, riding on pavements etc. That in no way excuses the drivers behaviour however if they were organised they may garner a little more respect as at least the rides could be co-ordinated. Supported by police, trafic conditions considered and notices posted of routes on trafic bulletins.

Generally the people who are crap cyclists are probably crap drivers. The driving test is inadequate in this day and age. I do not see an end to the hostility when cyclists do themseleves no favours in the eyes of the the media and everyone else. I can't see a time when, in the UK motorists and drivers will coexist happily together when the shit houses can hurl abuse at you and harrass you and speed off in a metal box or give you a punishment pass.

I don't get much hassle and its easier to turn the other cheek, take it on the chin etc. But what are we meant to do. Bad cyclists should be punished as should bad motorists who is speaking up for cyclists.

IIRC he was "discovered to be
" he whose name shall not be mentioned"

It's a valid protest. Let them get on with it.