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Impossible?
Wet weather, easy, wear stuff that's comfortable/warm when wet and good shells wick/dry out quick enough so you don't wet out.
Cold, a few fast wicking insulating layers, gets rid of perspiration quick enough so that you're not sodden with cold sweat.
Cold and wet, i'm flummoxed, i haven't found a combination which isn't sodden from inside out and cold within an hour. I've tried man made fabrics, merino, more layers, less layers, super breathable/waterproof shells, soft shells. Shell get covered in crud, wets out, no longer wicks, wets out on the inside and traps all the moisture in soaking all the layers underneath, which end up be wet, heavy and cold.
I'm fine if there is no solution, just want to know whether to stop looking for the "right" combination.
I struggle too. I struggle in the cold anyway so cold and wet is a nightmare. I'm tempted to try Buffalo or Paramo on the top half.
I just go with the warm stuff and a decent gilet. I just accept being wet, so long as I'm warm I'm happy.
Merino buff, socks, waterproof boots and Aldi lobster mits. If neck, hands and feet toasty it's a good start.
Howies merino base layer and Endura Stealth works for me when it's wet and below about 4 degrees.
Cold and wet I just wear my trusty Hokies merino long sleeved top and a Rab Generator Smock (primaloft so warm even when wet). I have worn a Buffalo Special Six Shirt on a biblical cold snowy all day ride but found it too hot!
Paramo would be a great bet but again tried it on biblical all day wet ride and found it too warm.
Managed 2hrs:40min yesterday before becoming an icicle.
Interested to see if there an answer.
Endura Stealth is a very good answer.
However, I think there's a certain amount of just being prepared to be warm and damp. I'd certainly avoid merino as it just soaks up too much moisture and takes ages to dry.
I just go with the warm stuff and a decent gilet. I just accept being wet, so long as I'm warm I'm happy.
Yep - but once I've been out for 2-3 hours I start struggling. Shivering, struggling to maintain any body heat.
Depends how cold and wet and how high activity but this is exactly what Buffalo (or similar pile+pertex) garments were made for. If it's close to freezing and/or you're hardly pedalling, one of these:
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/special-6-shirt/
If it's warmer or you're working harder, one of these:
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/teclite-shirt/
They have a huge range of different shirts/jackets but they're all variations on either thick fibre pile when you need more insulation or thin micro pile when you don't.
The other solution is Paramo but that needs to be kept clean, so I don't use it for the muddy sweaty mess that is mountain biking. Living on the south coast and generating as much heat as a furnace when I'm pedalling, I find Buffalo is overkill for me now - I just go with one or two base layers (one short-, one long-sleeved), a wind and water resistant uninsulated softshell and a tiny breathable waterproof for when it's properly raining - but I'm pretty weatherproof compared to most of my mates!
I like merino under a Stealth when on a wet ride as it acts a bit like a wetsuit and keeps the Stealth feeling warmer. When it's dry I use a Craft base beneath the Stealth. Anything over 5 degrees and its too warm though.
Merino base under Stealth for me. Works well.
Usually I just keep adding a mix of shirt and long sleeve base layers. I don't think I've ever needed more than three plus bibs under a hardshel. Rather warm and damp than cold, but if the base layers are good it's not too bad. Admitedly did end up with two, a softshell and a hardshell one day that turned a fair bit nastier than expected.
chiefgrooveguru + 1
I live in Stirling and live in my Buffalo at this time of year.
Buff under my helmet, Northface windstopper gloves, Shimano winter boots with merino socks and either full-length trousers or tights under waterproof trousers. Mudplugger / Crudcatchers on the bike to keep the water off.
Then go ride!
From the bottom:
Shimano winter boots with wool socks
MEC (Canadian shop) tights - waterproof/windproof on the front.
Merino base layer, softshell, GoreTex Active waterproof jacket (I really rate these - others don't. Just my opinion)
Buff round neck and another under helmet
Pearl Izumi softshell gloves (or some Altura waterproof ones if it's bitterly cold)
And Crudcatchers to reduce the water splatter
buffalo
Is this road or off?
Off road - layer up with base layers (I use ski base layers), light rain jacket or something heavier if it's really chucking it down, and just thrash the trails. Takes no time at all to get hot and then stripping off layers, even when freezing.
Mudfest trails - just blast through and enjoy it 😀 . Was crazy yesterday in snow and muddy bogs, but still a right laugh.
On road getting soaked through and wet road spray everywhere. Only way to keep warm is to ride harder and you just get wetter. Not my idea of fun.
Sealskinz FTW by the way!
I don't think anyone can cope with cold and wet for long. Best combo on top of normal bike gear for me has been something to keep the wind off and reduce the rate that water gets in, so the most breatheable waterproofs like Event or Windstopper or a cheap windproof for MTB, with Primaloft underneath. A good Primaloft gilet is a brilliant bit of kit. Under that, a decnt robaix fleecy top and a thin merino vest or t. Merino does dry slowly but is warmer against the skin than polys when wet, a thin layer is good.
Merino under Gore-tex is the best combo I've tried. Primaloft Montane Prism for emergency stops in the depths of winter.
I like the primaloft gilet idea, might give that a try.
I think maybe realistically, you want to sty dry as possible. Any kind of moisture on the skin in temperatures hover around zero degrees is not going to be comfortable. Get properly wet and it will be horrible.
I'd say good baselayers are important. I've a couple of cheap ones....bought one from Aldi, I'm pretty sure it has its own reservoir. You're better off without, than having something that continuously holds water next to your skin.
Wet and cold is the hardest. It dismay matter how hard you try, you'll end up soaked from rain or sweat. It's not possible to stay comfortable like that, but it is possible to stay warm.
When I know I'm going to get that wet, I generally stick to synthetics because they didn't get as heavy and flappy. I still wear a shell because rain is cold and sweat is warm. Apart from that. It's about layers, including my legs. I've been known to wear shorts, 3/4s and then Roubaix style longs on top, just to make sure I don't lose heat to my feet.
For muddy fast mountain biking - I get wet whatever so I go for warm when wet clothes.
For bikepacking or all day rides across the hills I use a Paramo Velez Light. It's brilliant. It can be too hot for summer but for medium paced long rides in cold rain it is the best I've found. I have ridden all day and felt comfortable throughout. You do have to wash it and re proof from time to time but it can cope with getting very muddy. I recon its greasy grubbiness that causes it to stop wicking and that seems to build up fairly slowly. I only wish I could find a solution to my legs.
As far as feet are concerned I have used sealskins or reed chillcheater socks with seals made from cut off wrist bits from heavy duty rubber gloves to stop water running down my legs and filling the socks. Honestly.... It works. Choose from pink, yellow or black rubber gloves!
The reason Buffalo works so well is the pile wicks very strongly and as long as you're generating a reasonable amount of body heat your skin stays dry (as does the pile right next to it) even if the whole rest of the garment is utterly soaked through. Put one on straight out of the washing machine, get on your bike and start pedalling and it feels dry within a few minutes. My first Special Six was retired after 20 years service recently - outdoor activities, commuting and then work wear, I'd worn it for thousands of hours. I have so many find memories attached to it I couldn't get rid of it - it now lives in the spare wheel well of my car in case of emergencies.
Stay in. 🙂
I've a cheap, close fitting top base layer from Declathlon that works well.
Not a cycling garmet, meant for running, but I've found that close fitting under the waterproof works better than my usual looser fitting stuff.
And as much as I hate them, overshoes. If my feet are snug & dry, I can put up with it a lot better.
I can wear wool socks, loose fitting winter boots and overshoes and still get cold feet!
Buffalo are great for that but too warm for me on the bike, I also like to be able to push my sleeves up and can't do this with the Buffalo. Each to their own but I like a merino base layer, with a merino/poly Ground Effect midlayer and a cheap Karrimor softshell over the top. If it's really wet I'll put a waterproof on but has to be really wet to bother with that. And keep moving. I've just started carrying a thin down jacket for lengthy stops but ideally when I stop I try and only stop somewhere sheltered if I can help it.
Warm, waterproof, comfortable - choose two
If you follow the buffalo train of thought, it's better to be warm and comfortable at the expense of waterproof - Andy K is worth a read here: http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/cut_the_crap1
Not possible.
I generate too much water with even moderate effort, so if I then cool down I freeze.
If I know in advance that's likely to happen I'll take something primaloft to wear whilst stopped but generally these days I dont put myself in that situation.
The buffalo method sounds reasonable to me
Try a Buffalo belay jacket if the std jacket is too warm. I find the Primaloft mid layer (jacket or gilet depending on how cold) under a breathable waterproof-ish shell more useable on the bike in most conditions but the Buffalo is also really good. I have a belay jacket and a Montane Extreme jacket but tend to use those for hill walking more than cycling.
I sometimes take a spare base layer in my bag & put it on after 2-3 hrs. Nice dry top after a few hours riding is lovely.
I find proper watrproofs nowhere near enough breathable on the bike so tend to wear pertex and try to keep on top of replacing the DWR as it disappears all too quickly.
Mudguards. The more the merrier.
Waterproof winter boots, a big size to allow toe wiggling. They then need gaiters to stop water hitting the top of them and soaking down into my sock.
Top tip is to alter your pace, slow down if your heating up and go faster if your cold.
spesh defrosters
Endura singletrack II trousers - ideal, breathable
Endura waterproof jacket - has pit zips quite good and 100% waterproof http://www.endurasport.com/products/?ProductID=14&initcode=E9048R
merino base layer
buff for head
I carry extra top just in case, fully waterproof stuff just makes you boil
realistically in the worse conditions your going to get soaked so turbo is the only option 😀 and wait for a better day
Buffalo techlite in warmer conditions, buffalo mountain/special 6 in cooler conditions.
The buffalo method sounds reasonable to me
Except that it's insanely warm so if you run at all hot, you just boil. I like Paramo for that reason. Incidentally, it's not so much that the fibre pole layer used by Buffalo - and Montane for the better-fitting Extreme stuff - wicks, it's more that it's aggressively hydrophobic, so water that reaches is just runs out of the bottom of the jacket.
Everyone's different though, people run at different speeds and different temperatures. If you like Primaloft, btw, try Polartec Alpha as a more breathable alternative. But for me, 'cold and wet' means temperatures above freezing, in which case riding more than a baselayer and some sort of shell at any reasonable pace means getting too hot for me.
I have the Buffalo Teclite (the lightweight 'high activity' one) and it's perfect for cold and wet rides. I chuck on a lightweight waterproof if it's really really pouring down but otherwise the Buffalo alone is enough. The heavier buffalos (mountain shirt, special 6 etc.) are too hot for active stuff unless its way below zero or a hurricane.
Sealskinz for hands and feets and some trendy RAF surplus goretex trousers complete the ex-serviceman look. Sorted!
String vest and a can of man-up?
It's about getting waterproof, breathable shell, layering underneath and then tailoring pace/effort to generate warmth without getting sweaty. Gore Phantom go a long way for me.
Buffalo - So my reading of the above is go Teclite as the others are just too hot for most rides.
If it is really cold could you wear a base layer under it ?
my current solution for long rides is to take a spare base layer. Did snowdon on a snowy cold day, stripped off at the top & put the dry top on for the down. Worked great.
I tend to try and keep my top half toasty and hope for the best for the rest.
Top: Buff, Sealskinz waterpoof glvoes, Base layer, long sleeve jersey, waterproof (if v. cold add another baselayer- short sleeve).
Bottom: Bib tights, Sealskinz waterproof socks, Sealskins overshoes.
I did 30 miles round Swinley on Sunday. Muddy slush, rain & grit, proper nasty. The first 2 hours were lovely and warm, after that I started getting cold and miserable. I knew that I could strip off and sit in a car within minutes, so that kept me going. Had to stop for a gel too- I never do that on a casual ride. Lots and lots of unprepared people there. Rather scary.
Yeah Buffalo Teclite shirt. I add a merino base layer for sub-zero windy rides or hiking.
They do a Teclite cycling specific one too, with a vented back and reflective strips if that's your thing.
I got mine from needlesports.com
chiefgrooveguru - MemberMy first Special Six was retired after 20 years service recently - outdoor activities, commuting and then work wear, I'd worn it for thousands of hours. I have so many find memories attached to it I couldn't get rid of it - it now lives in the spare wheel well of my car in case of emergencies.
My Belay jacket is now retired after 20 years too and is now on gardening and shed duties, along with the Danner boots bought at the same time and used in a lot of the same places.
The pertex/pile is going to be too warm unless it's properly cold out, I prefer the teclite shirt for bike use although mine is now rather on the big side after I lost 4 stone. Lives in the car for emergency use although it got worn a lot on a trip to Iceland last year.
There are Buffalo gilets available too but I've not tried one. Could be the panacea for the OP?
I've not found any better bib tights that Pearl Izumi Amfib elite. Craft storm are ok but not as warm, Northwave 50/12 didn't shed water at all. Waiting on some Bioracer Spitfire winter protect tights to try.
Pearl izumi wxb or softshell elite gloves, with jacket over the cuffs.
Buff on the neck, clear glasses and a beard on the face.
I've found a thin merino baselayer coupled with a synthetic one over the top and then a softshell hoody a great combo .. Thick long woollen socks good also - And plenty of carbs before you set out ..
for me, 'cold and wet' means temperatures above freezing
This is what I was thinking.
Windchill can make it feel colder I guess, but I'll usually make do with a hardshell jacket or my Stealth - probably with a midweight merino underneath. Though a thermal synthetic like my Mavic jersey will be OK too as long as I'm not stopping much.
I don't really expect to stay dry so the main thing for me is keeping my hands and feet warm.
Bought a lightweight synthetic insulated gilet last year to put in my backpack in a plastic bag for mountain rides in winter.
how do those Buffalo Teclite shirts size up ?
how do those Buffalo Teclite shirts size up ?
My 38" shirt fits my 38" chest. They are quite fitted, but need to be as they should be worn against the skin or with just a base layer.
Nothing special here just thin layers and insulation around the neck wrists and ankles. Went out the other day in a summer base layer under a winter base layer under an ordinary jersey under a windshell. Toasty 🙂
Sometimes pack a spare pair of gloves cold hands are my nemesis
Been keeping nice and toasty with my new North Face Thermoball body warmer (new "down like" primaloft tech). Surprised how warm it is for the size and so far been ok when damp. Not got soaked yet though.
I'm waiting for Endura to do a road version of their MT 2 500, 60k breathable, should mean I can get away with just a base layer, instead of having to layer up to soak the sweat up.
I tend to accept I'm going to get wet nd concentrate on staying warm (so that involves wearing a decent windproof). Personally I prefer more layers and a thinner, but breathable, jacket, and keep moving. At least this way you can get rid of moisture inside the shell faster.
On a social ride I'll sacrifice some breathability for warmth when stopped and wear a thicker shell.
Saying all that, it's rare for me to stay out much more than a couple of hours in freezing temps.