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Been running standard MTB tyres tubeless for years. As long as you use good quality new tyres and take the time to properly seal them, they last for years of lightweight, fast rolling and puncture free riding. I have never seen the need for UST tyres with their weight penalty and lack of tyre choice.
I'm new to road biking, but keen to run tubeless, but it seems tubeless tyre technology is years behind the MTB. Tyre options seems minimal (Hutchinson Sector 28 seems to be the best - but difficult to get hold off and expensive).
So what's the problem in using a standard tyre with latex? Do the high air pressures and skinny casings make it impossible to seal? Is there a greater risk of burping?
The plan would be to use tubeless ready Ultegra wheels with Conti 28mm 4 season tyres.
I had the same thought myself a while ago, but like you said the high pressure meant I couldn't get it to seal and I gave up. There may be something better out there by now though....
too much pressure so normal tyre beads can't take it. It's not so much the sealing bit but the strength of the actual bead itself. Not recommended.
I hear what you say, and have read that tubeless tyres have tight carbon beads, but if the bead is a problem, why doesn't the bead pop out on a normal set up with a tube pumped to 120 psi (not that I'd run it at that pressure)
Because it has an inner tube holding it in place.
As far as I know you can do it, the problem isn't so much getting them seated its the effect of 100psi in a 25mm casing going pop whilst descending at 60kph down a busy road......
If I was bothered enough about it to give it a go, I'd be running a proper tubeless tyre. Not worth the risk.
As far as I know you can do it,
No you can't, as no-beer said, the bead isn't upto the task of holding 100psi and will stretch/snap without the tube pressing it against the rim and the lip of the rim stopping it stretching.
The bead of road tubeless tyres is carbon fibre and has almost zero give making them a PITA to get on/off.
I've used some std large road tyres tubeless at the low pressures they could work at. They leaked a bit but felt brilliant, really smooth and measurably 'fast'. I see the move to wider tyres on road as a really good thing as it'll make tubeless more viable, it's far less likely to seal small cuts effectively at high pressures than at 40psi or so. Road tubeless would be less faff too as I rarely change road tyres. We need to get over the 100+psi thing though, it seems daft to have all the benefits of pneumatic tyres then make them almost solid to ride on lumpy UK roads.
A friend of mine did it on DT R1.1 rims with GP 4Seasons years ago, had no issues, although the tyres did go down over the course of a week or so. I'd not do it though myself!
Does tyre pressure make a difference then?
To avoid winter punctures I was thinking of trying tubeless on some 700x35 at 75-100 psi. Will that not work?
No you can't, as no-beer said, the bead isn't upto the task of holding 100psi and will stretch/snap without the tube pressing it against the rim and the lip of the rim stopping it stretching.The bead of road tubeless tyres is carbon fibre and has almost zero give making them a PITA to get on/off.
A tube or the bead itself isn't what stops a tyre unseating and wire / aramid beads don't stretch appreciably, that's not what gets a tyre onto a rim. Hookless rims can work and if a tyre can take 100psi and doesn't stretch and is secure at the bead it'll be fine with or without a tube if it seals. Pressure is force over area right? A thin road tyre or a fat mtb tyre, either will work tubeless at normal pressures and the force on the bead will be very similar.
Unless you're fairy heavy you don't need that much pressure in a 35c road tyre.700x35 at 75-100 psi. Will that not work?
the bead isn't upto the task of holding 100psi and will stretch/snap without the tube pressing it against the rim
How does the tyre know whether its got a tube in it or not?
100psi is.... 100psi
I suspect the problem must lie elsewhere
Just don't do it. The bead will stretch and pop off.
I think the issue is more about safety, any bead leak on a road tubeless system looses a large percentage of the air in the tyre pretty fast.
the road tyre manufacturers will eventually get their acts together. Eventually. Slowly.
Unless you're fairy heavy you don't need that much pressure in a 35c road tyre.
I meant 75-85psi. But the question is the same. Will the higher pressures used mean the tyre pops off the rim?
I assumed that higher pressure would help evrything seal better.
Still, I've ordered the rim strips, so I'll see of it works.
Will the higher pressures used mean the tyre pops off the rim?
No but the air might leak out faster until it falls off the rim. If it doesn't then great.
If a tyre can take 100psi with a tube in it can take it without one..... cos the tube certainly can't take the pressure on its own - probably pops at less than 10 psi.
Not all proper toad tubeless tyres are a pita to get on/off. I can get my Schwalbe one 28c onto rims with hands alone.
As for using 'normal' road tyres tubeless, no thanks 😯
For me the main benefit of tubeless is less punctures and I just don't get as many on the road bike- hardly ever, in fact. So, for me, there's no point.
It might not be the same scenario, but I'm using Stans Podium MMX (26") rims with standard slicks (Michelin 'sumpfin' Run'R Advanced Lite).
I emailed Stans and Effotto Mariposa (Cafe Latex) a few times about it to make sure it was an approved configuration and wouldn't be dangerous.
I think the rims are rated to around 17psi. Stans told me to use a maximum tyre pressure of 40psi, with an 'absolute maximum' of 50psi. If I remember correctly, they said the problem wasn't with the bead (I was concerned about the tyre blowing off the rim), but with the rim construction (weight?) itself.
I'm using this combination on a recumbent. It shouldn't make any difference, but the overall handling is different because of weight distribution, and the fact that I'm lying almost flat out. I find balancing and cornering a bit wierd. So, on a couple of occasions I've had a fright when it felt like the bike was about to highside when cornering. I initially put it down to me running low pressures in the tyres at the time (tyre pressure would have dropped, and was probably nearer 20psi).
I have noticed that the Blackburn track pump I was using was letting out a lot of air when I removed the nozzle after inflating the tyres. I bought a digital gauge which makes it easier to inflate the tyres then release air until the correct pressure is reached. With a newer pump I tend to pump them up to 45psi or 50psi, which allows for some air loss.
I haven't compared the same tyres using tubes, so I can't give any info about performance other than the bike feels fast enough, and it coasts really well.
The over-riding positive impression is one of supreme comfort! I just don't notice rough/broken road surfaces. The downside is the fear of losing control, which makes me corner and descend fairly slowly. However, that might just be down to me. A few months ago I fitted the original wheels and tyres (Schwalbe Marathon Racers), anticipating the bike might handle better with those. However, it didn't give me any more confidence after I tried cornering at higher speeds, so I suspect it's a weight distribution problem with my particular bike.
The consensus seems that it would be foolhardy to risk riding with a standard tyre.
So what are the best 28mm tubeless tyres out there?
Hutchinson Sector 28
Schwalbe One