[Closed] Is Goretex still the go to breathable membrane?

gortex or event in my opinion

there are a lot of different versions of goretex these days but again i think the original is the best.

i tried a few things like the paramo offerings and such and they were all rubbish after a short period or a wash .

Looking at reviews of some of the newer Gore tex offerings (for hillwalking, not biking, too dear for that!) and the shakedry stuff looks brilliant (in independent reviews) - Mountain Equipment Propeller looks like my next waterproof.

Columbia Outdry is worth trying, especially for mountain biking. It doesn't mind getting dirty and can be easily washed without special care.

The best waterproof biking jackets I've owned have not been Goretex or eVent.

Dunno what Rapha's are made from but I use one of their commuter jackets for MTB and it's brilliant, genuinely waterproof and breathable. Was half price in the sale, obvs.

Endura's MTR Shell jacket is also pretty good, the product spec says it is "Exoshell40™ 3 Layer waterproof fabric".

Dunno what Rapha’s are made from but I use one of their commuter jackets for MTB and it’s brilliant,

Their shakedry are GoreTex Shakedry, the rest unbranded membranes / coatings...

I have their Core Rain Jacket II, doesn't breath anywhere near as well as GoreTex, but as an emergency rain jacket it's fine.

Gore's patents expired years ago, so anyone can make an expanded PTFE membrane now, so in theory match Goretex; but Gore have just done such an amazing job managing the brand and quality, that the Gore-Tex label gets you more than just their fabric - there isn't a single duff GTX product out there.

As a general rule, brands you have never heard of, bombarding you on FB are rubbish and sometimes even dangerous (IMHO).

Thanks all - i am not sure that i am strictly a Rapha shape ...
But will go and have a look at those suggested

I found event to be rubbish. It needed so much washing and reproofing to retain a semblance of water resistance that I just gave up and went back to goretex.

I found event to be rubbish. It needed so much washing and reproofing to retain a semblance of water resistance that I just gave up and went back to goretex.

Telling that Rab swapped from Event to GoreTex this year.....

Thanks all – i am not sure that i am strictly a Rapha shape …

Their Rain Jacket II is a good cut and packs up super small, so if you want an emergency shell which is tiny - it's a good choice. You just don't want to wearing it for long and working hard as you'll get sweaty underneath.

The shakedry stuff is amazing, but black and you can't wear a camelbak etc with it as it will wear through. You can, however, ride hard wearing it and stay sweat free....

Another vote for Outdry here.
Seems to work just as well as Shakedry but is much tougher for MTB.

Endura’s MTR Shell jacket is also pretty good, the product spec says it is “Exoshell40™ 3 Layer waterproof fabric”.

I just picked up one of these in the CRC Black Friday for £70. It got a good testing over the weekend and I'm well pleased with it. I usually get pretty warm in a waterproof but was really impressed at how breathable this is. It doesn't have pockets, but then I rarely put items in jacket pockets, so it's not a big deal for me but it might be for others. Only issue for me is the hood doesn't have a drawstring so while it fits nicely over the lid, in a headwind/riding fast enough downhill it does quickly blow off.

Endura’s MTR is currently on sale at Chain Reaction.

I got one the other day and have had one ride in the driving rain with it. On reflection I should’ve stayed indoors but the jacket kept me perfectly dry and did a great job on breathability too.

It also packs down very small, I haven’t tested this yet but I reckon I can get it small enough to carry with one of those frame straps.

I can’t speak to long term durability but first impressions are excellent.

I have their Core Rain Jacket II, doesn’t breath anywhere near as well as GoreTex

That's the "cheap" one, this is the one I have...
https://road.cc/content/review/50916-rapha-city-rain-jacket

This seems to be the modern equivalent...
https://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/mens-hooded-rain-jacket-ii/product/HRJ05XXOLN

But the OP might sensibly prefer a garment designed for MTB, I was just using it as an example of something excellent that isn't GoreTex. At least with GT you have the assurance that the brand brings, so it shouldn't be a boil-in-the-bag horror.

I have tried loads of types of Goretex since my first Goretex jacket back in the 80s. Not one of them has kept me dry in proper rain. I don't know if its mainly sweat or leakage or both but not a single one of them has worked. I have tried a few other membranes too with the same result.

For very fast riding in mild or warm weather then I still get wet a bit wet from seweat, but for touring/normal commuting/bikepacking/day rides in the hills the only thing that works for me (others disagree I know) is a Paramo Velez Lightweight Smock. I can ride all day in the rain and find that I am still mainly dry on top underneath. It is baggy and flaps in the wind and isnt the best for proper trail riding, but if I want to stay dry thats what I use. You do have to reproof it from time to time (every 6 months maybe if you use it lots) but you can also patch it and it still worsk if it has a few holes. A pinhole in a gortex in the wrong place can get you weter than nomal.

The Nukeproof Nirvana jacket is pretty good too, seems to be an unbranded fabric but has worked well so far. Use it as a lightweight walking jacket too. I have a heavier duty mountain walking jacket by Sherpa that uses their own Himaltec fabric which seems very good, better than the OHs North Face Goretex jacket. No idea if they do lighter/more bike apropriate jackets.

Back in the day we didn't use it much. It was too heavy, and didn't breath fast enough. Better for walkers

For very fast riding in mild or warm weather then I still get wet a bit wet from seweat,

Try Shakedry, breathes incredibly well.

Gore Shakedry for road use - just gobsmackingly good. I barely bother to carry a windproof any more, just take the waterproof instead.

Something made from Gore Active for off road use, as it is far more robust than Shakedry.

I've used GoreTex Pro, Active and Windstopper with my 7Mesh gear over the last 3 or 4 years and it is good, Windstopper is great for cold and dry, Active and Pro good for proper wet. My 7Mesh Guardian Jacket (now replaced by the Skypilot) is Gore Active, and the Revo shorts and Thunder Pant are Pro and I've no complaints with any of them, other non-branded stuff from the likes of Fox/Madison isn't as good IMO.

I've got GoreTex C5 trousers and Trail Hoodie. Great pieces of kit. this weekend I thought the hoodie had leaked after I came off on Thursday, but it turns out my jersey had snuck out of my waist band and was flapping about soaking up water..

I have actively hosed myself down in the Gore-Tex and I was dry.

I also use the Pro-shell on my motorbike touring kit and it's great. Just not cheap.

I personally look for the cut, fit and features rather than a membrane in isolation.

From a tech point of view, other membranes are both as breathable and as durable these days (although not always both at once, like the various Gore membrane products).

I also think a lot of biking gear is poorly designed - so look to good companies and cut.

A brief look at the website of Revolution Race suggests they are buying from manufacturers catalogue's, rather than designing and specifying themselves.

I have tried loads of types of Goretex since my first Goretex jacket back in the 80s. Not one of them has kept me dry in proper rain. I don’t know if its mainly sweat or leakage or both but not a single one of them has worked. I have tried a few other membranes too with the same result.

I have always found the same with all membrane jackets until I treated myself to a Rab this year. It's astonishingly better than any of the previous Goretex jackets I've had. Its not for biking...I'm still trying to find a solution to that but probably more because I sweat like horse in the Grand National.

Which Rab did you get Fazzini?

How robust do those Endura jackets feel?

How's the fit, nice long sleeves?

I've got Shakedry for the road bike but there is no chance I'd take it offroad, even bramble snags would give me the fear!

Looking for something cheap and cheerful that I can stick in the back pocket for gravel and CX duties but have been spoiled by the fit of the Shakedry, my old jackets feel comically ill-fitting now.

Which Rab did you get Fazzini?

@Nobeerinthefridge it was the Kangri GTX. For starters it was the fit that swung me. I'd really struggled to find something that fitted as well...all too athletic cuts etc. This one just ticked all the boxes. Its been great for walking/hiking duties, not on the bike though, I just use an old DHB one for that as I know I am guaranteed to be wet regardless!!

EDIT - meant to say that I, for once, managed to find an excellent deal on eOutdoor. I've just checked and the prices have gone up a bit since March.

How robust do those Endura jackets feel?

They feel nice and robust, I'm not concerned about it ripping if I take a fall. (Now watch me ruin my new jacket).

How’s the fit, nice long sleeves?

Fit is great, I have relatively long arms for my height and the sleeves fit well which is not usually the case.

Looking for something cheap and cheerful that I can stick in the back pocket for gravel and CX duties but have been spoiled by the fit of the Shakedry, my old jackets feel comically ill-fitting now.

The only problem is that they seem to now be out of stock on CRC and Wiggle 🙁

Cool, thanks @fazzini

I personally look for the cut, fit and features rather than a membrane in isolation.

I also think a lot of biking gear is poorly designed – so look to good companies and cut.

My friend, who had the Specialized Aethos on review, has handed that back but now taken delivery of a large selection of Rapha kit to review - a small selection of which was on test yesterday...

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50609529062_659eb4df10.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50609529062_659eb4df10.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2k7c4Mh ]Mr Rapha[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

I personally look for the cut, fit and features rather than a membrane in isolation.

@matt_outandabout your spot on, that's exactly what I was going to say.

I won't buy a jacket without pit vents. Back vents are a plus too.

I've used gortex and all other types of membranes. But if you don't look after them, keep them clean and treated with re proofer then they don't work.

I find the thing that let's most jackets down is the seams failing.

I had a Rab made from Polartec NeoShell. It stayed waterproof for longer than Gore Tex and with a nicer feel. Slightly warmer and no rustling while moving.

I've found some of the cheaper types of Gore Tex stay waterproof for longer than the pricier stuff, and don't loose much in breathability. Once had a couple of early Active Shell jackets and trousers that I could literally run a tap through the fabric from new. Thought I must be imagining the leaking to begin with. Returned and exchanged for the cheaper version which lasted years, still mostly waterproof after thousands of miles.

I’m testing a fox jacket for biketreks which is polartec Neo. I’ve been pleasantly surprised. I run really hot and sweaty and it’s stayed dry in the inside so far.
I think it’s quite a lot more breathable than 2.5 layer goretex

However after loads of mud it’s starting to wet out after 8 weeks so probably needs washing and drying properly. I’ll do that and let you know

Thanks all,
I presume that there is a shelf life or any membrane - or invest well and use for years?

I presume that there is a shelf life or any membrane

I find so, even with care over how and when it's cleaned. Imo you can kill membranes quickly through too much cleaning, but they do block up and lose dwr through use and need a clean and proof...

For me yes.
I carry a C5 paclite jacket if it's likely to be rainy, it's very light, packs to half the size of a the jacket it replaced, very breathable.

I was out for 3 hours on the wettest day since records began in october, water eventually got in where bumbag straps out pressure on the coat. I do t think any breathable fabric can prevent that. Next time the coat goes over the top of the bumbag.

You can search for the hydrostatic head ratings, I thing goretex is still ahead of others by a margin.

If I was a roadie I'd be tempted by a shakedry jacket, but sounds too fragile for off road.

You can search for the hydrostatic head ratings, I thing goretex is still ahead of others by a margin.

Iirc, Gore and eVent can get 30k hydrostatic head, although most of their membranes are 20/25k.
I think Polartec and others argue that over 20k is less breathable and more prone to clogging of breathability.

You pays your money...

(And in my view, good detailing, venting, cut etc is more important than some on paper figure. I also assume I'm going to get wet, so base and mid layers are according.)

You can search for the hydrostatic head ratings, I thing goretex is still ahead of others by a margin.

I don't think it's any higher than the others. The main benefit is it just works and lasts years, I've had GTX jackets last over 10 years - the DWR goes and they wet out quicker, but the membrane stays working. They very tighly control the membranes and fabrics and everything is made under license, hence they can ensure everything using their products is of high quality.

Why do you need a high hydrostatic head?

How often do you need to force water through it at high pressure?

Get something that is water repellent, hard wearing and breathable.

Different uses ... I won't spend more than £20 on a MTB waterproof as they don't remain waterproof after a crash anyway. Once they are covered in mud the breathability is crap...

I'm happy to spend much more on waterproofs but wouldn't dare ride them riding.

Different uses … I won’t spend more than £20 on a MTB waterproof as they don’t remain waterproof after a crash anyway. Once they are covered in mud the breathability is crap…

I’m happy to spend much more on waterproofs but wouldn’t dare ride them riding.

Which was my mantra- i also sweat like a racehorse - so I am not sure how much breathability helps.
Hence the flouro mountain whorehouse special

I don’t think it’s any higher than the others. The main benefit is it just works and lasts years, I’ve had GTX jackets last over 10 years – the DWR goes and they wet out quicker, but the membrane stays working.

Be ready for failure soon.... I have a Goretex Phoenix race ski jacket from when I raced DH SKIING in Canada and its a team issue momento as much as anything now. After something like 11-12yrs the goretex just fell off as powder.

These seem pretty good from reports on Facebook

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fohn-supercell-3l-waterproof-jacket/rp-prod193659?utm_source=affiliate-window&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_campaign=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pdmbr.co.uk&utm_term=pdmbr&utm_content=Social+Content&awc=2698_1605612841_c34a5d60f6a2739a5d9b6cd22e41fac5&sv_campaign_id=782443&sv_tax1=affiliate&sv_tax2=4483%7C22775%7C22777&sv_tax3=pdmbr&sv_tax4=0&sv_affiliate_id=782443

I've not been impressed with Goretex or event, neither seem any better at keeping water out than own brand membranes. In fact a Goretex Active jacket I had clearly leaked through the fabric.

I wish Decathlon did riding jackets out of the same stuff they make their Quechua walking jackets from. Had one of those for a few years and the water always beads on the surface without ever having been reproofed.

+1 for Rapha also, I got a team sky rain Cape (jacket) a few years ago cheap and again, one of the most consistently waterproof jackets I've had despite minimal after care.

What I wouldnt give for a circa 1997 Rab waterproof though when they used to use both Nikwax analogy and a separate membrane in tandem on the same jacket. Amazing jackets, I still have one but it's a bit too big nowadays.

In 25 years of owning breathable waterproof jackets I have never had the fabric actually leak. They get damp on the inside, but this is sweat not rainwater. I suspect that some of you are expecting that which is not possible. I mean breathable jackets do breathe, but nowhere near as much as an MTBer generally sweats. This means that you will NEVER be dry. I mean I'm never dry MTBing, cos I am always sweating regardless of what I am wearing.

The breathability of Goretex and most other jackets depends on the difference in tempearature and humidity on either side. So when it's mild and wet outside (like it usually is here) they don't breathe anywhere near as well as when it's cold and dry. eVent, some Endura fabrics, and the good stuff from Showers Pass actually has tiny holes in it so it's unaffected by humidity.

These seem pretty good from reports on Facebook

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fohn-supercell-3l-waterproof-jacket/rp-prod193659?utm_source=affiliate-window&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_campaign=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pdmbr.co.uk&utm_term=pdmbr&utm_content=Social+Content&awc=2698_1605612841_c34a5d60f6a2739a5d9b6cd22e41fac5&sv_campaign_id=782443&sv_tax1=affiliate&sv_tax2=4483%7C22775%7C22777&sv_tax3=pdmbr&sv_tax4=0&sv_affiliate_id=782443Posted

Looks great - shame XXL is only 46 inch chest ... i need 47 ...

Millets have some Gore jackets with big savings in their sale.

Okay - so after the last few days ... I want a waterproof, breathable, well vented jacket (or can be) that doesn’t stain with South Downs mud ....
Moon on a stick??

I bought a Gore C5 jacket for my CL300 ride and it was perfect, it rained a lot that weekend and I was nice and dry throughout. It is cut very athletic which I like on the bike, less so for walking. Arms are perfect length, the tail could do with a touch more drop though.

I've also the MTR spray pullover jacket and the quality, fit, robustness and arm length are miles away from the Gore jacket but is significantly cheaper.

Top tip (IMO), always wear a long sleeve baselayer under neath to help the jacket wick away the sweat, if you make that layer thin merino then even better.

Daft one for the folk saying you can’t wear a camelback on top of a delicate waterproof.

Since I lost weight, and partly because I already had a Goretex packlite I my pre-weight loss size, I started wearing a camelback vest under my waterproof.

Works well in the rain (slightly more air circulation space) and fantastic at keeping muddy spray off your tools, food, phone, bite valve/water.

YMMV.

So you can’t wear a camelback on top as it’s too delicate, but a huge heavy walking rucksack is ok?

Top tip (IMO), always wear a long sleeve baselayer under neath to help the jacket wick away the sweat, if you make that layer thin merino then even better.

My experience of merino is that it wicks very poorly, dries very slowly and that a decent synthetic is far better for any activity where you sweat.

So you can’t wear a camelback on top as it’s too delicate, but a huge heavy walking rucksack is ok?

I can see the issue there, grit and shit getting splashed up onto the bag and jacket, and the constant vibration between the two from biking. Not an issue when hillwalking.

So you can’t wear a camelback on top as it’s too delicate, but a huge heavy walking rucksack is ok?

Basically what Nobeer says - mud splatters all up your back when biking (even if you have a mudguard, to some extent) and this wears waterproofs out in no time.

Of course if you have the option to ride packless, which is all the rage these days, you'll preserve the life of your jacket. But whatever you do, don't get dirty then put your waterproof on over the top of the dirt, because then the mud gets ground into the fabric from the inside which will trash it in absolutely no time, as I've found to my cost.

they wet out quicker, but the membrane stays working

Once they wet out they aren't breathing tho (if that's what you meant, they remain waterproof).

If you want really good breathability, Polartec NeoShell or TNF Future Light, which is a very similar technology based on micro-engineered, spun PU.

Gore-Tex isn't far behind these days and generally more durably/reliably waterproof over time. GTX Pro is a very good balance of breathability, lightness and toughness, but a really noisy fabric and mostly used for top-end mountaineering shells. Active is slightly better for breathability and quieter, but less durable.

ShakeDry comes in a a couple of different versions, the lighter, original one is fragile, the heavier version was developed for hiking use and is tougher, but still not exactly bombproof.

What you do get with Gore-Tex is decades of obsessive development work, really tight quality control and testing of every element of every fabric and hands-on control of factory standards. It also has a lifetime warranty, so if it leaks, take it back.

OutDry is like a much tougher, more durable ShakeDry. Doesn't wet out, but is a lot less breathable ime.

Anyway... different fabrics suit different people and fit, design, cut and features are all important too.

After all of this I decides to,go cost effective - and bought a waterproof MTB jacket from decathlon. Seemed good spec on paper.
Delivery service from Decathalon was awful - nearly three weeks - and itnhasnjustnbeen sent back.
Nice fit, nice cut, colour ways okay ... but
It has a back and underarm vents - which you cannot seal. The vent itself is about 1 - 2 cds of overlapping fabric under the arms. And about 3cm son the back.
So if you are cycling east, in the usual SDs westerly wind , the water will be blown through the vents. Making it not at all waterproof.

Anyone used Alpkit waterproof jackets ?