[Closed] Is GX Eagle much heavier than XT?

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-1275-eagle-cassette#sm.00153531q1ax2eixthl128kde62ck
450g Eagle 10-50t
https://marathonmtb.com/2017/05/05/11-46-cassette-review/
440g for 11-46 XT

GX Eagle Mech
https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/gx-eagle-rear-derailleur#sm.00153531q1ax2eixthl128kde62ck
290g

XT Rear Mech
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/shimano-xt-m8000-drivetrain-review-2016.html
280g

So unless anyone has some other weights the Shimano 11sp with a much smaller range is only 20g lighter

But, you can't have a 2x eagle. And, on a more serious note, with xt you have the delight of using shimano shifters rather than horror of sram.

lol 2x11sp for people who need a massive overlap in gears they never use...

Shifters personal preference but Shimano are not for me - XT just seems like poor value to me when compared to 11 or 12sp sram

One persons horror is another's delight.... Michael Macintyres Big Show, for instance....

I'm much liking SRAM gx eagle and gx 10-42 11spd.... Snick snick snick

But, you can't have a 2x eagle. And, on a more serious note, with xt you have the delight of using shimano shifters rather than horror of sram.

XT M8000 shifter action is poor (at best) IME. You'll also get the delights of a medieval cassette and poorly designed clutch.

I am normally a Shimano fan but SRAM GX is soooo much better in every way than XT, it's utterly bizarre how Shimano have let themselves fall behind.

Another vote for GX. I've been impressed with my stuff, although I run an X01 shifter because you can adjust the lower trigger.

IME, SRAM have got Shimano beaten with the 11 speed stuff. It feels better in terms of shift action and just sees to work better (I was really disappointed with the M8000 stuff I've ridden).

Whereas I moved from XX Sram over to XTR when I went 11 spd having been a SRAM user since the days of Gripshift X Ray 8 spd.
The shifter action is way nicer on the Shimano in my opinion.

Second hand top end 11 speed from sram. Super light and loads of range. Loads of bargains on ebay

Yup, I love the shifter action on 11sp GX. Can't see me ever using Shimano again tbh, SRAM just seem better for proper wide range 1x.

SRAM is an industrial clunk compared to xt. Using Eagle means a long mech and a cassette that is pretty expensive.

the price of the cassette depends how long it lasts, the eagle is steel so should last well which means cheaper long term

Shimano has always been the go to for me. 11speed XT on my previous bike which had several annoyances but was bearable. I put it down to a trade off for 11speed and a single chainring.

The SRAM GX Eagle 12 on my new bike blows my XT setup out of the water. Significantly sharper shifting in both directions. No strange ghost shifts when you back pedal half a rotation. The chain stays on coming down steep rocky descents. It’s easy to set up, it doesn’t need readjusting every few hundred KMs. I can’t compare the wear rate yet but like for like when they’re both worn in and set up Eagle wins for me. I’m a convert. Bravo SRAM.

I don’t get the relative weights issue with components such as this. I really think we’ve been suckered by the industry when it come to marginal weight savings.

In my experience adding half a kilo (i.e. dual ply tyres) to a big travel bike makes very little difference to how the bike climbs. Maybe 20 seconds on a 10 minute climb. But descend on that bike with decent tyres and it rolls better, is more stable and you’re much less likely to puncture if you clatter a rock. I would pick reliability and performance over weight any day (to a point). 11 grams is inconsequential.

+1

But also

-1

While I'd choose reliability over modest weight gains you do have to consider the cumulative additional weight if you don't keep an eye on things.

I look at the items that I really, really don't want to compromise on then try and claw back that extra weight in other areas. I'll probably end up with a similar overall weight.

For 1x11 I find the Shimano range of gears too limiting. When I’m riding around the local trails I’m only using the last two sprockets (which also increases wear on the cassette) as it’s pretty flat round here and when I hit the real mountains such as the Alps I find the smallest gear too big for extended climbing. Unless Shimano come up with something else I would also choose SRAM for 1x11.

Shimano and SRAM 1x11 ranges are the same (11-46 vs 10-42). Sram only has a greater range with 12 speed.

Roter Stern - Member
For 1x11 I find the Shimano range of gears too limiting. When I’m riding around the local trails I’m only using the last two sprockets (which also increases wear on the cassette) as it’s pretty flat round here and when I hit the real mountains such as the Alps I find the smallest gear too big for extended climbing. Unless Shimano come up with something else I would also choose SRAM for 1x11.

You Sir area fine example of someone who either needs to swap front rings depending on where you're riding or fit a double.

Have to say I thought I'd find GX eagle rubbish. I've always loved shimano.

GX eagle now on 2 bikes, one replacing XT and one replacing GX 11sp.

I think it's fab and I'm not going back to fron derailleurs or shimano until they sort their shit out.

Haven't gone GX for cranks, one is X01 and one is XX1 fat bike version.

Trailrider Jim - Member

Was interested in GX but am hearing the cassette and mech is pretty hefty compared with a much lighter Shimano equivalent.

There is no Shimano equivalent.

I ran the numbers on this in August when specing my new bike.

If you include the cranks, gx eagle works out lighter than 11spd xt

The smart options are really 11sp XT with the GX 10-42t cassette vs. GX Eagle with whatever crank you've already got, surely?

Then XT probably edges it weight wise, but the additional range on Eagle is well worth the extra grams if you need it.

Yout Sir area fine example of someone who either needs to swap front rings depending on where you're riding or fit a double.

Replacing chain rings every time I want to go and ride is way too much faff but I will be chainring to a double once the funds are available. It’s slightly compounded by the fact it’s di2 stuff that I am using.

isn't that just a simple case of a firmware update to configure the syncro-shift from a single button / lever?

Shimano and SRAM 1x11 ranges are the same (11-46 vs 10-42). Sram only has a greater range with 12 speed.

Ranges may be the same, but they’re fundamentally displaced by that 11t top on Shimano, so you need to run a bigger ring up front if you wanted speed, which in turn raises your lowest gear, pushing you toward the even more horrible 11-46.

I can’t understand why Shimano have shot themselves in the foot so badly here. Yes, they have the famous three-year cycle that stops for no one, but SRAM 1x11 is plenty old enough now that they have to have analysed it and decided to ignore the changes. Interpreting from reviews of Di2 and die-hard 1x users comments that synchro-shift is actually ok, I conclude Shimano have given up competition in mechanical drivetrains and see an electronic future.

In the meantime, we have tribal splits and ergonomic preferences. For myself, SRAM triggers certainly do not represent any sort of Hell, and I very much appreciate MMX as opposed to iSpec due to the ability to actually put the trigger in a useful place. On my Shimano bike, while the XT trigger technically is capable of dual-release, it’s rendered impossible due to the location relative to the brake lever, so it’s strictly push and no pull.

Sram must have a patent on the XD cassette design, nobody else offers one AFAIK.

Shimano will understandably be very reluctant to introduce another new freehub standard to get a 10t sprocket themselves.

They've been snookered a bit when you think about it.

Shimano shifter and derailleur, sram 10-42 cassette for the win.

Vincienup - if you increase chainring size to compensate for the 11T vs 10T, then the resulting gear in 46T is the same as you’d have had with a 42T on the SRAM set up with smaller ring - same range. Bigger rings/sprockets are more efficient, so no downside other than clearance, which realistically isn’t an issue either.
I,be got 11-42 and 11-40 on my Bikes, so not personally tried the 11-46,but form friends that have, they like the 11-46 option - tighter spaced gears where you want them to be, and a bail out gear at the low end.

The SRAM cassettes at the high end are pretty awesome bits of kit in terms of construction (with a price tag to match), but I can’t stomach the shifters and mechs.

chakaping - Member

Sram must have a patent on the XD cassette design, nobody else offers one AFAIK

E13 offer XD cassettes. I think XD might even be an open standard.

Shimano will understandably be very reluctant to introduce another new freehub standard to get a 10t sprocket themselves.

Pinkbike did a preview of Shimano 12 where they suggested more than 1 new freehub design might be coming .... xtr different to xt, etc. Sounded awful

MSP - Member

Shimano shifter and derailleur, sram 10-42 cassette for the win.

+1

rumors have Shimano also employing a new freehub, and using a smaller version of their Centerlock threaded lockring to attach the cassette. Also, news that many won't welcome, there could actually be a few different 12-speed freehubs from Shimano to suit different setups.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos-12-speed-xtr-drivetrain-and-3-other-rumors-from-eurobike.html

I run a 30t 11-46. If I can't climb with that I'm walking.

E13 offer XD cassettes. I think XD might even be an open standard.

You are right (but I'd need to remortgage the house to buy one).

But if it is an open standard why aren't Sunrace or anyone trying to sell me a nice 10-46t 11sp XD cassette for a reasonable price?

🙁

They probably cant do it to compete with the price of GX 11 sp

But if it is an open standard why aren't Sunrace or anyone trying to sell me a nice 10-46t 11sp XD cassette for a reasonable price?

I thought exactly the same thing. In fact I presumed they would offer an XD 46t cassette with a better spread than that awful XT 46t thing. I couldn’t find anything and wondered if someone was missing a trick. My friend has the E13 11 speed cassette it’s frankly a rediculous price and requires a specific tool not to mention creaks and moans something chronic. I have just resigned myself to upgrading to GX eagle over the next few weeks. I can buy it with out the horrible cranks for about £260 from CRC which seems descent enough value

They probably cant do it to compete with the price of GX 11 sp

Yeah, and it might not have the longevity either.

I'd like a bigger sprocket but finances dictate sticking with 11sp (three MTBs) so I'll just try to toughen my legs up a bit more.

And maybe look for a reasonably priced 28t chainring.

I've always preferred Shimano and have never had reason not to buy, use or recommend XT.
I am, however, really disappointed with XT M8000 on my Hei Hei. The shifter action is much heavier than I like to go up the block compared to anything I have had in some 25 years of using xt and the chain dropping off the largest 2 sprockets at any hint of a back pedal when you least want it is a disgrace. I'm close to calling it not fit for purpose.

honourablegeorge - Member

rumors have Shimano also employing a new freehub, and using a smaller version of their Centerlock threaded lockring to attach the cassette. Also, news that many won't welcome, there could actually be a few different 12-speed freehubs from Shimano to suit different setups.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos-12-speed-xtr-drivetrain-and-3-other-rumors-from-eurobike.html

* Northwind is out of the office, as he had to make an unplanned trip to Japan, to burn Shimano to the ground *

chakaping - Member

I'd like a bigger sprocket but finances dictate sticking with 11sp

Someone (Oneup?) do a larger cog to fit XD cassettes to increase range....

Edit.. here but only 44t and pricy

https://int.oneupcomponents.com/collections/sprockets/products/x-cog-44t-sprocket

Sunrace do an 11-50 Shimano cassette

There a couple of extenders that add on to XD hubs. I was under the impression it was an open standard too, although it certainly wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer didn’t want to use a standard created by someone else.

Silly, that’s exactly what I was saying btw: if add a bigger ring to 11-42 Shimano to bring the top speed up and want to keep the bottom gearing I’m forced onto an 11-46 which I don’t want. I’m happy with SRAM anyway, but it just irks me when made up stuff is thrown at it in criticism.

Vincienup - fair enough - we all have preferences.
Not sure what I was making up though? Certainly didn’t intend to annoy.

* Northwind is out of the office, as he had to make an unplanned trip to Japan, to burn Shimano to the ground *

Imagine hubs and wheels with four or more freehub standards on top of various axles and boost etc. Or they could just adopt XD

I think to understand Shimano's attitude to competitor standards, you just have to look at 20mm axles.

Currently XO1. Would love to move to eagle - can I keep my sram XO1 crank and chain ring? I know a XX1 crank will. You can just put the new chain ring on.

Or just get sram GX? Whole setup is pretty damn cheap

No need to change the crank, I'm running GX11 on x9 10sp cranks - all it does is put the chainring in the right place.

Did you need to change the chain ring Mike, thanks for the reply. Currently 32t XO 1 x11.

I know shifters, chain cassette has to change no problems. Now I'm tempted! I note the German shops are selling just upgrade kits. Shifters, chain cassette.

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/blogs/worldwide-cyclery-blog/will-sram-eagle-work-on-your-bike-heres-what-you-need
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/running-sram-eagle-12-speed-cranset-with-11-speed-chain
All says yes to an existing 11sp working fine

Thank you very much, very kind. I'm off to buy!

I still don't see the advantage of 10t vs 11t myself. Sure if you change the chain ring to compensate then it shifts the whole range, but 11t is a non issue for me. I have no need to make it faster.

Anyway, I'm still on 11-40 XTR cassette (X01 mech), with 32t, and get up hills and mountains fine enough. Majority of my gear selection is somewhere mid cassette though. I'm not about climbing or flat out on tarmac.

my bikes span this argument...

I'm running 1x11 Shimano XT on the plus bike
SRAM 1x11 on the full suss
SRAM old skool 2x10 on the 29er.

the 1 tooth difference at the business end makes very little difference IMO. I still spin out on fast road descents, but very rarely need anything more on the trails. If ever.

Shimano seems to suffer in the mud more than SRAM. When things get really boggy, and the drivetrain is caked, the Shimano chain retention seems to be way worse. I have no idea why. To the point that in extreme conditions it can become unrideable. (if anyone knows of anything I may have set up wrong then I am all ears...but 99.9% of the time it is slick and faultless....just whenever it gets shown mud things go belly up - to the point I wouldn't want to race it in winter).

My only grip with SRAM. XD Hubs. Do we really need this standard? Especially with a 50 tooth granny ring, you can run a slightly larger chain ring.

Oh - My 2x10 has worked fine for 6 years and is so cheap in comparison to replace worn items! (But having been sucked in my marketeers and liking the aesthetics of 1x - that's all I would probably buy moving forward)

Do we really need this standard

TBF the XD freehubs and the GX 11sp cassettes are the best thing to come from 11 speed.

The range is enough the vast majority of the time, and the cassettes last really well.

So, any pointers for affordable 28t chainrings? In Shimano asymmetric SLX pattern. Superstar only went to 30t. Is that the limit 'cos of the bolt holes?

Yes. 104bcd is the issue. I think one up or absolute black made a 28 but it needed special thin but strong steel bolts to give the clearance. Alot easier to just use a direct mount chainset IMO, and do away with BCD limitations altogether.

It's 96 BCD on the new SLX and XT

But it seems you have to mount them to the inner ring holes for 28t or lower. And I can only find expensive US-made ones.

AB made a 30T oval chainring that needed two normal bolts and two thinner ones to fit to a 104BCD spider. I think their 26T and 28T oval rings are direct mount only - I've the 28T on my fat bike.

According to [url= https://absoluteblack.cc/xx1-style-shimano.html ]AB's website[/url], the round rings are 64BCD only

The problem Shimano and Sunrace have with the cassettes is that, while the freehub body is an open standard, Sram patented the only good way of designing the cassettes-

https://www.google.co.uk/patents/US20120302384

Which is why the e13 is a complicated multi-part thing. Shimano wouldn't want to offer such a compromised cassette (not that the M8000 one's aren't compromised...).

I have Sram XX1 on one bike and XT M8000 on my others. The M8000 stuff is far superior in terms of shift feel and quality - the XX1 shift feels like Acera circa 1998. Lots of play, clunky, plasticy feeling. But the XT cassettes are poor - the alloy cogs are way too soft, while the XX1 one is 3 bikes and 4 years old! I put a Sunrace 11-46 on when my first XT wore out in no time and it's much better.

Shimano mech and shifters, Sram cassette and chain if going from scratch, or Shimano mech and shifters with a Sunrace cassette if upgrading from 10 speed.

I'm quite enjoying still being happy on old school 1x10. Saint shifters FTW! 😉

^^ Yeah I have a Saint 10sp shifter on the hardtail (and 11sp XTR on the big bike) and I don't want to change either of them.

If XD could actually be a standard, not proprietary and locking into unnecessarily expensive cassettes, then I'll buy into it. Some day. But I'm not about to change all my freehubs to buy into it. But then I'm happy with XT and XTR cassettes and even the 11-40 range limit of XTR. 40t is still a novelty to me anyway. Even still got 11-36t 10 speed on one bike.

If XD could actually be a standard, not proprietary and locking into unnecessarily expensive cassettes, then I'll buy into it.

To be fair though I don't think we'll see XD get much cheaper- could be wrong but it seems to be just a more complex thing to make. Whereas the previous standard at least was dead simple and super cheap cassettes could be made. Cheap, wide range cassettes don't compete on range and tend to weigh a ton so it's not something I do, but at least it's an option.

(for me, for 11 or 12 speed for mtb, XD is the only game in town... Just because if you're not going XD, it doesn't offer any real advantage over 10 speed, it's the wider range that makes it make sense to me. But then I still think 10 speed is a great option)

I’ve just decommissioned M8000 on my Shimano bike and replaced with 10sp xtr and an expanded cassette for this reason.

I’ll be interested to see what this new freehub from Shimano offers, but for me XD is the way forward for 11 sp also, for the same reason. M8000 is just made of compromise.

Seems silly putting feel ahead of mechanical performance.

Owned m8000, m9000, gx and x01...

Guess what had the most consistent shifting in all conditions had had the best chain retention under all conditions and longevity.....i couldn't call it between gx and x01.

What failed first? M8000, mega slop in the pivots.

The m9000 was pretty good but got a fair few ghost shifts when mashing the pedals in the rough

Screw this weird idea of brand loyalty, just does not make sense... nutters

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I'm quite enjoying still being happy on old school 1x10. Saint shifters FTW

Agreed - I miss the Saint shifting vs M8000. And that's in the dry.

10 speed saint isn't just the best shifter ever, it's the best shifter there'll ever be. And it weighs the same as XTR, too- I had it on my XC bike and now on my fatbike, very downhill