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Don't close the thread. It's comedy gold.
Is this the UK version of “take my rifle from my cold dead hands?”
I think the equivalent would be if people were arguing that shooting should be limited to muzzle loading single shot rifles and that modern repeating rifles are just skill compensators. (FWIW, I think that recreational shooting should be limited to bolt action rifles with a maximum magazine capacity of five, but that's for public safety reasons, not sporting reasons.)
I met a couple on the Pictish Trail. I think they were in their 70s. They hadn’t given up touring/bikepacking they had got some e-bikes so they could keep doing it. They looked very happy. Aside from the ‘e’ bit, what they were doing was pretty similar to what I was doing.
Whilst I kind of get the analogy… I don’t think you would meet the sea kayaking equivalent in Great Loch Tarbert on a jetski… and you can simulate stereotypical jetskiesque behaviour on a mountain bike without a battery. And I’m not saying that all jet skiers are yobdicks (just lots of them).
This thread needs closing. It's aggressive and unpleasant.
and hate myself until I die.
Unintendedly reveals why it sounds like you have such antipathy towards e-MTBs. It sounds like you don't think riding should be fun, or you don't think people should be allowed to have fun with some sort of punishment first. Which is, if you step back a bit; a bit of a weird attitude, no?
I think as mountain bikers, we all prefer fun otherwise we'd be road cyclists (or worse). I own an ebike as well as other bikes and it's great.
I used to think they were for fat lazy people or people with mobility issues as you could put zero effort in to get up hills. This isn't true. I get a work out (if it was my only form of exercise for two hours a week then it wouldnt be enough) but the key thing is it actually makes me get out riding when I wouldnt bother. i.e. when I've only got a few hours in a weekend.
If my legs are ****ed from other exercise, i can still go riding too.
I dont think it is about giving up. It's a tool to get more riding done.
I'm far from new to the sport. Finding the motivation to ride up a hill by myself is hard. I barely rode my enduro bike last year as I wait on friends but they have commitments and the opportunities to ride were few. In that context i had almost given up (other than XC).
But the ebike has meant that I can get uphills quicker so I'm less bored and can just do the stuff I can enjoy. I get 3x the descending in as i'm always moving, not standing around at the top chatting while my lactic acid goes away.
Most pro riders seem to use them too so any stigma that they get from some seems to be a bit weird.
Then there are those that think they're cheating but use an uplifts them selves? Ebikes provides the same thing but everywhere.
Who is gatekeeping what mountain biking is anyway? Since when is it just about having to ride uphill or keeping fit? We ride mountain bikes because they're fun. Because we're hedonists. Ebikes allow us to have more of it. .
At this point the only people that hate on ebikes are ignorant, and if the sport to them is just about fitness, they should probably just ride a road bike or take up running.
This thread needs closing. It’s aggressive and unpleasant.
It is doing a good job at highlighting how ridiculous some people are though but we don't need more of those threads.
Whilst I kind of get the analogy…
Yes, it doesn't really work does it. I said culturally rather than behaviourally specifically. I was kind of thinking how you always know who the jetskiers are around a harbour. Somehow they just stand out. A swagger maybe. To try to make an analogy work with another analogy, it's like the special needs kid in primary school walking around like Billy big Balls because he got a lolly for getting 8/10 in the spelling test but not appreciating he was the only one with 'cat', 'sat' and 'mat' in his test.
As I say, it's just a whiff, not full bore Eau de Jetski tosser. And it doesn't extend to oldies on e hybrids - they rock!
Jeebus! is this nonsense still trundling on?
I'm a confirmed "eeeb-hater" and even I've lost interest in trolling the eeeberists...
Come on folks its a new year, I'm not one for resolutions but I think we should all try to dial down the dickishness for 2024 (myself very much included).
This thread needs closing. It’s aggressive and unpleasant.
It's nice to be able to pop in here once a day and see the same familiar things getting repeated over and over while the world outside burns.
I don't know about anybody else but for me a bike is a way to explore, discover new places, contect with nature and the environment. I don't enjoy laps of a trail centre but thats not a critisim of those who do. I like to just ride natural tracks and by ways.
I also like to ride my gravel bike and sometimes a road bike. I like to go touring/bike packing.
I don't need an ebike to to this. If you want one that's fine.
It's all a mater of choice.
Please don’t close the thread, it’s comedy gold!
I'm giving up and am going to use ChatGPT from this point on.
Using an electric bike (e-bike) is not necessarily "giving up" on traditional cycling; rather, it's a choice that reflects the evolving landscape of transportation options and personal preferences. People choose e-bikes for various reasons, and it doesn't imply a lack of commitment to cycling or physical activity. Here are some reasons why individuals might opt for e-bikes:
- Assistance for Commuting: E-bikes can make commuting more accessible, especially in hilly terrain or over long distances. The electric assistance allows riders to cover greater distances with less effort, making them a practical choice for commuting.
- Physical Limitations or Health Concerns: Some individuals may have physical limitations or health conditions that make traditional cycling challenging. E-bikes provide a way for people with varying fitness levels or health concerns to enjoy cycling without putting excessive strain on their bodies.
- Encouraging More People to Cycle: E-bikes can attract individuals who might not have considered cycling due to concerns about physical exertion or the ability to navigate challenging terrain. The assisted pedaling feature can make cycling more inclusive and appealing to a broader audience.
- Increased Speed and Efficiency: E-bikes can help riders maintain higher speeds with less effort, potentially reducing travel time and making them a practical choice for those with time constraints.
- Environmental Considerations: Despite some environmental concerns related to battery production, e-bikes are generally considered more environmentally friendly than traditional motorized vehicles. Choosing an e-bike can align with an individual's commitment to reducing their carbon footprint.
Ultimately, the decision to use an e-bike is a personal one, influenced by various factors such as fitness goals, commuting needs, health considerations, and lifestyle preferences. Many cyclists appreciate the benefits of both traditional and electric bikes and may use them in different contexts. The key is to find a mode of transportation that aligns with individual preferences and allows for an enjoyable and sustainable means of getting around.
Basically, e-bikes are the cycling equivalent of an author using ChatGPT to write their book 😉
I’m giving up and am going to use ChatGPT from this point on.
I would like to see an AI Autoreply button integrated into the site so that AI can just go back through each user's posting history and write an appropriate response to any topic when I can't be bothered replying to the same question that's been rehashed over and over again.
Culturally I think there is just a whiff of jetski about them. Not As strong, but it’s there. As in watersports where a typical jetskier cant smell it, it’s probably the same with eMTBs.
@convert, living on the south coast I can very much see where you are coming from with this comment 🙂
tongue in cheek/sarcasm. forgot to notate…
Fair enough : )
I’m giving up and am going to use ChatGPT from this point on.
Not a bad idea and intrigued to know what AI would make of threads like this. It'd probably set up Cyberdyne Systems and take over soon after : )
for me a bike is a way to explore, discover new places, contect with nature and the environment. I don’t enjoy laps of a trail centre but thats not a critisim of those who do. I like to just ride natural tracks and by ways.
I know you say you can/do explore on your normal bike.
When you have an ebike you tend to find yourself exploring quite a lot more. Where does that trail go that you'd normally ignore on a normal bike - ebike, just shoot off and have a look, doesn't matter so much if it turns to nothing. Yes, obviously you can do this on a normal bike, but you just seem inclined to do it more on an ebike
When you have an ebike you tend to find yourself exploring quite a lot more. Where does that trail go that you’d normally ignore on a normal bike – ebike, just shoot off and have a look, doesn’t matter so much if it turns to nothing. Yes, obviously you can do this on a normal bike, but you just seen inclined to do it more on an ebike
100% this. I've found "let's see where this goes" far more prevalent. For me it's because sometimes the trail is rubbish/no entry and you've wasted half of your ride time if on a manual being disappointed by a trail. It's also the speed meaning in your window of riding you can simply cover more territory, even the stuff you sometimes just save for a long day out, that's now within reach of a short one.
When
youI have an ebikeyouI tend to findyourselfmyself exploring quite a lot more. Where does that trail go thatyou’dI'd normally ignore on a normal bike – ebike, just shoot off and have a look, doesn’t matter so much if it turns to nothing. Yes, obviouslyyouI can do this on a normal bike, butyouI just seen inclined to do it more on an ebike.
We're all different and you speak from your own experience, inclination and perspective.
100% this. I’ve found “let’s see where this goes” far more prevalent. For me it’s because sometimes the trail is rubbish/no entry and you’ve wasted half of your ride time if on a manual being disappointed by a trail. It’s also the speed meaning in your window of riding you can simply cover more territory, even the stuff you sometimes just save for a long day out, that’s now within reach of a short one.
Ive certainly noticed a proliferation of 'I wouldn't ride down there' trails. Trails that maybe you ride once and swear off (usually deer tracks) that now have well marked entrances due to heavier use in both senses... That still go no-where.
Cant say for sure if thats 100% e-influenced, but its certainly a thing now round our way. Ive only been tempted once to see if the trail was miraculously now rideable (eeb or not). It wasn't.
We’re all different and you speak from your own experience, inclination and perspective
You do realise that in the English language 'you' can be used as a generalisation and not a specific singling out of an individual?
Considering that a lot of people (outside this thread as well) are in agreement with what I said, that would indicate it's not just my findings and my findings alone 🤷
But yes, perhaps Bruce personally wouldn't explore more on an ebike than he does already, perhaps he'd just do laps of a trail centre. I don't know
You do realise that in the English language ‘you’ can be used as a generalisation and not a specific singling out of an individual?
But you weren't were you - you were making a sweeping generalisation based on your own experiences. So couch it like that to be more clear.
Personally exploring the road less travelled is my natural MO already - because legs.
Personally exploring the road less travelled is my natural MO already – because legs.
I am pretty sure you need legs on an ebike too. I also understand that it's entirely possible to own an ebike and a conventional bike. Different days, different bikes.
IME they make brilliant tools for exploring the road less travelled too.
Sounds like we need a bit of game of thrones style punishment for ebikers on trails 😁
I vote for referring to them as land jet skis. That whiff of jet ski comment has tickled me. Please don’t close this, it’s the best thread we’ve had in ages.
Re: Strava - always log as an ebike ride, but do sometimes load it up as a normal ride just for a couple of mins to check DH segment times.
I did accidentally have my phone set to e-mountain bike ride when I was on my normal bike a few months ago and bagged a 2nd place eeber trophy, so left it up 😉 Should take it down really as had forgot about it....
Another example of ****s getting annoyed that others don't behave /think the same as they do 🙂
Thanks, zoom catch-ups today, quality reading.
I took the ebike out yesterday but forgot to bring the Kiox display so there was no power, being fat and lazy but not wanting to not use the parking fee I rode it anyway. Wont be doing that again.
is an Ebike giving up?
well, yes, but then so is gears In my Opinion, as everyone knows only singlespeederists are the true gods of cycling, the rest of you lot are just too stubborn to admit how amazeballs we really are.
Basically you are all wronguns and any conversation about about a which is worse between and on oingly boingly geared thing and an oingly boingly geared thing with gears and a motor, is equivalent to arguing which was more murdery, Harold Shipman or Fred West
I'm off to spin my legs like a demented hamster whilst wearing my razor wire thong in the rain. (to make it even more authentically miserable, I shall do so without a mud guard or glasses)
When you have an ebike you tend to find yourself exploring quite a lot more. Where does that trail go that you’d normally ignore on a normal bike – ebike, just shoot off and have a look, doesn’t matter so much if it turns to nothing. Yes, obviously you can do this on a normal bike, but you just seen inclined to do it more on an ebike
Yep I also find this - I'm far more likely to search out new trails and duck down the odd track I've never been down on the ebike rather than the regular bike.
“well, yes, but then so is gears In my Opinion, as everyone knows only singlespeederists are the true gods of cycling, the rest of you lot are just too stubborn to admit how amazeballs we really are.”
This is the truth.
And when I choose to give up, I go all the way and don’t stop at merely adding gears and more suspension but also a motor too!
No I think unicyclists are the true gods. Everyone else is just being lazy, balancing along only one axis with their superfluous wheel.
I got rid of my unicycle, in truth I could never ride it more than short distances. I also feared I would injure myself.
If I had an e unicyle things might have been different 🙂
All the other upgrades like gears, suspension, droppers, hydraulic brakes etc are mechanical in nature. A motor is an entirely different thing imo of course. Also disclaimer that I don’t really give a shit what people ride. I’m just enjoying those taking this way too seriously.
Joking aside the issue of what happens to the batteries, how long they last on anbe and how they are produced in the first place does concern me a bit.
Hopefully the batteries will get recycled?
Joking aside the issue of what happens to the batteries, how long they last on anbe and how they are produced in the first place does concern me a bit.
That is a fair question. Hopefully the batteries will recycle better than the carbon frames (including those on accoustic bikes),not to mention how some of those are produced in the first place.
Funny how that never seemed to bother that many, even before the ebike hatred was a thing.
I hope one day I’m recycled
‘Soylent Green’ was set in 2022. I don’t think we’ve got that far just yet but maybe your wish can come true…
I was thinking about being composted,
Or fed to crows?
I’m far more likely to search out new trails and duck down the odd track I’ve never been down on the ebike rather than the regular bike.
And this is exactly the point I made many pages back. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing but in some areas, that extra traffic has potential negative implications (landowner disapproval or extra trail wear). In some areas that's a problem, particularly if they are "remote"
Now, I'm not saying ebikes cause more erosion but they enable more people to do this. The extra effort required to explore these types of areas/trails on non-ebikes means there is some element of gate-keeping which ebikes removes. Some may not care about this, some may do.
I'd be more accepting of ebikes if the industry contributed more to trail advocacy but all I see at the moment is the industry cashing in. Please feel free to correct me if you have examples of ebike manufacturers (apart from Santa Cruz, who do so this) putting time or money into trail building or advocacy
Having an ebike allows me to do a quick check of trails early to make sure there's no issues, when i'm on the normal bike i don't do that 😂, also note that a couple of the trail pixies in our area ride ebikes and it allows them to move their tools about a bit easier when fixing any damage.
Again, it's down to people rather than what they ride
That is a fair question. Hopefully the batteries will recycle better than the carbon frames (including those on accoustic bikes),not to mention how some of those are produced in the first place.
Funny how that never seemed to bother that many, even before the ebike hatred was a thing.
One of the reasons I’ve never owned a carbon frame. That and the fact I love steel, mainly for the looks tbh. I buy used bikes 90% of the time too. Current and only bike is Ti, which makes me feel a bit bad. It’s shiny though
Please feel free to correct me if you have examples of ebike manufacturers (apart from Santa Cruz, who do so this) putting time or money into trail building or advocacy
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/soil-searching-uk
The ebike are bad argument based on 'recycling' always amuses me - there is nothing, not a single part of mountain biking as a leisure activity that can be dreamed as environmentally friendly, from the equipment, accessories & clothing, trail centres or biways. It's a leisure sport and activity - its a misconception that because 'cycling' is better for the environment than a car that the leisure pursuit is also.
And this is exactly the point I made many pages back. Now, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing but in some areas, that extra traffic has potential negative implications (landowner disapproval or extra trail wear). In some areas that’s a problem, particularly if they are “remote”
Now, I’m not saying ebikes cause more erosion but they enable more people to do this. The extra effort required to explore these types of areas/trails on non-ebikes means there is some element of gate-keeping which ebikes removes. Some may not care about this, some may do.
You've put that across quite diplomatically, so this response isn't a direct rebuff to what you've said and in part, I agree, but...
The general sentiment smacks a little of others that have been mooted in this thread - that being that the line gets drawn at whatever anti-ebikers choose/deem to be right.
Taking it back further, should we be riding some trails (forgetting current weather conditions for a while) on normal bikes when they are perfectly fine to be walked? Should we limit the type of tyre used?
At some point, someone was the first to ride the trails you (you, as in the generalisation, not you personally) now ride, on the equipment you choose to ride it on. Anti ebikers often deem that to be the exact point line should be drawn.
All that said, yes there are probably a lot of places bikes possibly shouldn't go, ebikes and normal bikes. But then there are some humans who can get places on normal bikes that normal folks on ebikes cant. Not a location that is taboo to ride per se, but take up Jacobs ladder for example - Nick Craig cleaned it, I and probably the majority of ebikers still wouldn't stand a chance with a motor.
The ebike are bad argument based on ‘recycling’ always amuses me – there is nothing, not a single part of mountain biking as a leisure activity that can be dreamed as environmentally friendly, from the equipment, accessories & clothing, trail centres or biways. It’s a leisure sport and activity – its a misconception that because ‘cycling’ is better for the environment than a car that the leisure pursuit is also.
Adding a battery and a motor makes it worse by a fair degree though to be fair. At a time when, collectively, we should be looking to reduce environmental impacts as much as possible.
This thread is becoming a masterclass in whataboutary.
The general sentiment smacks a little of others that have been mooted in this thread – that being that the line gets drawn at whatever anti-ebikers choose/deem to be right.
No, that's "you" (ebikers collectively) being overly sensitive to criticism because exactly the same argument is used about tracking "secret" rides and publishing them on Strava, and that applies no matter what type of bike is used.
All I'm doing is pointing out is that ebikes remove some of the element of gate-keeping that kept the number of people who are willing to spend their time and effort "exploring" less well travelled trails (which may be less well travelled for good reason).
Adding a battery and a motor makes it worse by a fair degree though to be fair. At a time when, collectively, we should be looking to reduce environmental impacts as much as possible.
I agree, to some extent - but are you going to give up MTB completely purely because it's lack of environmental credentials?
God no! You crazy man! I am however, riding from the door, using my only bike for any type of riding and have no plans to buy any new kit or parts. Looking for a slightly longer stem, higher rise bars and a 130mm fork when funds allow. All will be bought used. If I do look for another bike (I’m a serial swapper) it’ll be used and the current bike will pay towards it.
People who buy ebikes are people who have
open minds. deep pockets
It's the next new thing and the industry chases what people will spend shed loads of money on. The market is perhaps moving away from high-end "analogue" bikes to ebikes because that's what sells.
Though I'm more disappointed at 29ers being popular and less 27.5 being made, because that's what sells. Still struggling with the move from 26 😄
I will just be glad when everyone is riding one so we don't have to put up with people calling a bike an analogue bike...
Please feel free to correct me if you have examples of ebike manufacturers (apart from Santa Cruz, who do so this) putting time or money into trail building or advocacy
YT, Specialized, and Canyon
look at the trails in the latest Itchy Boots video; must have been a load of e-bikers using that route.
Is it wrong to let out a small s**** as you overtake people on a hill, or into a strong headwind ?
^ I prefer to cruise up alongside and engage in cheery conversation 😀
I prefer to cruise up alongside and engage in cheery conversation 😀
I like it - force them to talk when they need every bit of oxygen in their lungs. Good work 😉
We had an encounter with an unknown ebiker yesterday while we were riding our manual bikes.
Shock horror it was at a popular Scottish trail centre too.
Contrary to what some folks seem to think about either "side".
I tried to let him past but he rode the rest of the climb with us chatting away.
We then showed him a couple of off piste trails he didn't know and he asked us a few questions about ebikes. He was on a test ride and it was his first go on a eeber.
Maybe we've been doing it wrong but this is how 99% of our rides go no matter what bike we or strangers are riding.
Should I have told him he needs to blast past people in silence then bum their dog?
Should he have told us we were doing it wrong and should be on our ebikes?
It's all so confusing.
As a side note. None of the people involved were fat or lazy.
He didn't have a dodgy 'tache? Mate of mine is ebike curious but doesn't want to have a go on mine in case he likes it too much.
Maybe we’ve been doing it wrong but this is how 99% of our rides go no matter what bike we or strangers are riding.
Same
Except the two asshats on ebikes on our Christmas ride that just forced their way past the group on a climb at Black Rocks without even a word. They received a few disparaging comments
Idiots are idiots irrespective of bike. And they are a tiny minority IME so castigating someone or having strong confirmation bias like some on this thread is a far better indication of idiocy than whether the bike is assisted or not.
I met a bloke on an eBike a few months back, he passed me on a climb. He started with a standard hello, then looked conflicted for a while and then sheepishly said 'sorry, it's an ebike..' as if it were something to be ashamed of.
Good! You deserve to be ashamed you freeloader!
Idiots are idiots
Actually they're people.
Idiots are idiots
Actually they’re people.
I think what he meant was that people are idiots.
Idiots = idiots
People = people
Idiots = people
Therefore:
People = idiots
I'm going out tomorrow on my regular bike after riding (i.e. giving up) my eeb for a month.
Am I now giving up, but on an analogue bike now that I have crossed the electric rubicon?
Or have I ducked back into the esteemed valhalla of 'those who try' such that I will drink toasts of electrolytes in their mighty company and share tales of true pain and suffering?
I plan to ride the eeb later next week also.
Do I now vacillate between the two categories like the moon follows the sun? Have I truly given up, or am I some kind of MTB double agent, destined to be reviled by both tribes and accepted by neither, but able to walk the line of both.
My future is unclear. The portents are clouded.
Can the arbiters of the one true way please offer their sage wisdom?
Can the arbiters of the one true way please offer their sage wisdom?
In essence, the "one true way" for cycling, in a Thatcher-esque sense, could be framed as supporting a diverse range of choices within a free market, allowing individuals to make their own decisions based on their personal circumstances and desires.
I gave up today, because it was 1.30 by the time I finished work. I only managed 40km & a measly 1600m of climbing/descending by 3.30 on the ebike.
I’ll pay for my sins, as I’m out with friends tomorrow on my non ebike & make sure I suffer like a dog for every single one of the 1500m of planned climbing as my penance for being such an ebiking loser today 🙂
I'd like to confess my sins....
I went out on my ebike and only did the same ride as I would normally do on my neeb. I didn't go any further or do any more climbing than I would normally do on a neeb, I did go a few Mph faster though, if that helps absolve my sins.
Oh I also had a sausage and egg bap in the cafe after the ride.
I also drove to the ride., but it was in an electric car, so that makes it all OK, right?
Idiots are idiots
Actually they’re people.
Not mutually exclusive, is it?
Selective quoting not really that smart, is it?
I’d like to confess my sins….
I went out on my ebike and only did the same ride as I would normally do on my neeb. I didn’t go any further or do any more climbing than I would normally do on a neeb, I did go a few Mph faster though, if that helps absolve my sins.
Oh I also had a sausage and egg bap in the cafe after the ride.
I also drove to the ride., but it was in an electric car, so that makes it all OK, right
Sounds like a bloody good ride.
I rode my Fuel around Shuttcastle today and am at Dyfi tomorrow.
More than once today I wished I was on the Rise, but weirdly, they were on the downhill bits not the climbs
I’m 43 and I’ve never ridden one. I’m sure I’ll get one in the future and I’m cool with that.
I rode mine today - 25 hilly and quick miles with guys loads fitter than me. I couldn't have kept up otherwise. My god it can climb stuff with it all turned to turbo nutter bastard setting
As a side note. None of the people involved were fat or lazy.
I bet the ebiker wears Crocs though.