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I do the apology for cheating bit too! But only jokingly. Chatted to a couple of riders the other day and one said "you can just lean back and let the bike do the work", I said "Yup I'm a lazy bastard eh!" and he replied "No!" as I rode off (effortlessly)- actually, he mightve been on an Eeb too but I didn't check his bike. It was all in jest.
That was at QECP, where there are a ton of new lines avoiding any slightly techie or rooty bits, obviously created by all the eebers that go up there these days.
Well at least both sides have one thing in common: the desire for more, whether that be smiles or misery, all that matters is more. There's no giving up on either side. Typical bloody humans.
😉
It’s a real pain in the arse getting it in and out of the car.
you’re supposed to ride your ebike to the trails
It can be, though imho suffering is some term Rapha came up with. It’s exertion and it can feel good, but riding is different things to different people.
i take suffering to mean the effort required to access the good bits of trails, not bleeding through your eyeballs in a stylish black and white photo shoot.
For me an eBike is a tool like a hammer, and a normal bike is a thing of beauty that you look after and give a cuddle after a ride. Is it just me?
i agree. and the am9 is a very well proportioned bike to my eye.
I’m not saying every eBiker works hard, but some do and enjoy it.
or you could save yourself a few quid and ride a bike for a similar enjoyment
Neither of these concerns are specific to Ebikes of course and I’ve yet to see or hear of an increase in mountain rescue call outs so my concerns may well be completely unjustified.
this is an interesting train of thought. would e-bikes take people into places that are sufficiently tough to need mountain rescue when things go wrong? or would they be more likely to increase traffic in more accessible area? or is it just a matter of time?
Ive had such a laugh riding the bike through thick mud and slop
which suggests e-bikeing iscloser to 4x4ing than it is to cycling and possibly why people liken them to MX bikes.
this is an interesting train of thought. would e-bikes take people into places that are sufficiently tough to need mountain rescue when things go wrong? or would they be more likely to increase traffic in more accessible area? or is it just a matter of time?
A few years ago (waaaay before ebikes were a thing), IMBA encouraged mountain bike trail organizations to develop "stacked loop" trail systems which tended to place easier trails nearer to the trail head/car parks and the more difficult trails further out from the trail head. The theory being newcomers to the sport would generally be less fit than more experienced riders, meaning they tended to stay on the easier trails until they got fitter and more experienced.
Once riders had developed the fitness and technical skills, they would explore some of the harder trails. Obviously, this isn't a "rule" that had to apply to all riders but it acted as enough of a filter than trail organizations could "sell" the theory to nervous land managers meaning trails could actually be built AND they could be more "adventurous" than just manicured pea gravel.
Ebikes have just up-ended that whole theory/ethos as "anyone" can get themselves over their heads pretty damn quickly whereas prior to ebikes a lack of fitness was an effective barrier to some trails.
OTOH, ebikes can be a fantastic tool for trail builders and rescue personnel.
When my mother is asked about getting an e-bike she says not until she’s 80; “I haven’t given up on life yet”. So from that authoritative source the answer is yes!
Having seen the cutting out of any corners/roots/ features by eebs at Cannock and QECP I wonder why these folk go on the trails at all. They don’t seem to want to ride them, so why not stick to the fire roads and not destroy the trails?
which suggests e-bikeing iscloser to 4x4ing than it is to cycling and possibly why people liken them to MX bikes.
The only people who do that probably haven’t ridden an ebike and definitely haven’t ridden an MX bike, and in this instance, you probably mean and enduro or trail bike.
I have a Tern ebike that I use for getting about with stuff. I love it and it replaces as many car journeys as it does commuting bike journeys. It makes me smile every time I ride it so I do get the appeal of an EMTB. I don’t think it is giving up. But, saying that, I am happy on my normal bikes for my non utility riding. I know that may change one day…
Just a thought; I have looked after the motor on my Tern (mudguards, never immersing it, etc) but I still needed to get a bearing changed at just 8000 miles. So with all this talk of enjoying riding through slop; don’t EMTBs become a bit of a maintenance pit? If I had one I imagine I would be avoiding slop and river crossings?
Stop being so intolerant, just do your own thing and smile. And if you can’t smile, stop blaming fellow cyclists, sort your life out instead.
I have trouble smiling because I had a huge bike crash about 20 years ago and had to have my face stitched back on. Trying to smile puts a lot of strain on all the scars, it's quite uncomfortable. What should I do?
A full motor rebuild is £260, which is only the same as a fork and shock service. So in honesty it's not terrible
Needing a new motor or battery would sting a bit more
would e-bikes take people into places that are sufficiently tough to need mountain rescue when things go wrong?
Well, my concern is just that it'll take more folk into those places and that perhaps more of those folk will be unprepared for the potential consequences.
At a very simplistic level, the folk currently exploring those areas on a bike have qualified simply by dint of being relatively fit and could therefore be assumed to be fit enough to extract themselves if they're not injured.
FWIW I do realise this is all broad-brush stuff and the world isn't divided into fit cyclists and unfit Ebikers.
Live and let live is such a silly saying. It gets used to say 'mind your business'
Sounds like- Turn a blind eye to actions that impact everyone
Most here aren't 13 any more, we are expected to make considered choices. Eebing brings some different considerations to biking and humans wanting 'more' isn't a popular justification in this era.
Does it matter? Let the crowd be the judge🤪
.
I think people
chasingtrying to knock a couple seconds of their mid pack timeKOMson Strava has led to as much,
FTFY.
I do laugh at some straight lines, and wonder why some riders don't just find some fire breaks to straight line down, as for me part of the fun is trying to ride all the trail features. Plus you don't get faster by riding straight lines.
Although I did watch an e-biker straight line the berms on the new Red at Glentress a few weeks ago, and almost wipe out numerous times on the loose gravel. It very much looked like a couple mates had convinced him that it would be fun to hire an eBike, but they just shot of ahead leaving him to struggle down, however that's certainly not e-bike specific.
One of his mates also didn't seem to take too kindly to me not stopping at the next section. I thought they would wait to check their mate was OK as he got there just in front of me, but as soon as they seen me not stop, one of them tried to chase me down. He almost caught up until he hit 15mph 🙈
Meh, there's more folk who cause mountain rescue and the likes problems going up munroes, or snowdonia and so on without the required ability and equipment, in the main, folk on ebikes i see at FoD and the likes are pretty good riders, who have gone ebike more for miles and runs rather than diving away into the depths of nowhere. Those i see who are weekend leisure riders are going on pretty much hardpack all the time, you see them going round and just doing miles and enjoying a day out, then back to the car or hire shop.
I'm 58. Have 2 E-MTBs & 3 normal MTBs.
If I'm riding with friends on E-Bikes I take one too. If friends are on normal bikes then so am I. Sometimes Her Indoors takes an E-Bike & I ride a normal one. It's also useful for towing the kids up the climbs at trail centres.
On my own? If I'm pushed for time & have a short window to ride. E-Bike.
More time - normal bike.
E-Bike riding has made me fitter coz it's still time on the bike & you're still pedalling. That 60 minute slot when the kids were at Scouts - I probably wouldn't have gone for a ride without an E-Bike. I'd have sat in the car watching YouTube & eating Mars Bars with a flask if tea.
My skills have improved too. I'd got pretty rusty & kinda lost my mojo a bit. The E-Bike allowed me to climb then descend multiple technical trails then repeat and repeat.
I'll never do all my riding on an E-Bike but it's a great option to have.
I think MBoy said something about generating more heat on an E-Bike? Couldn't disagree more. I'm like a furnace climbing on a normal bike but but freeze my arse off on an E-Bike. No wonder you see all those blokes dressed to climb Ben Nevis pedalling up at trail centres eating crisps.
I think people chasing KOMs on Strava has led to as much, if not more corner cutting on my local trails than people on eBikes.
I think people eating too many Mars Bars has led to as much, if not more erosion on my local trails than people on e-bikes 😉
I'm wondering if some of the direction of development and marketing of ebikes has led to many attitudes.
Currently 'best' eBike = MOAR powah, MOAR battery, MOAR wide tyres with DH casing, MOAR shredits showing athletes taking on death defying or gravity defying feats. Big Enduro helmets, bum bags and loud FOX clothing included.
No different from much of mountain biking then.
When for many people lighter and efficient would be more appropriate.
It's led to a culture, and I mean this across our sport, but perhaps typified by eBikes, that I don't really fit in with.
I like eBikes, heck mrs_oab and I love her eBike, but maybe it's the culture I'm less comfy with - it's just not me.
Currently ‘best’ eBike = MOAR powah, MOAR battery, MOAR wide tyres with DH casing, MOAR shredits showing athletes taking on death defying or gravity defying feats. Big Enduro helmets, bum bags and loud FOX clothing included.
No different from much of mountain biking then.
I have times when I think it's all a bit too MX and not the side of MTB I relate to - then I remember the loud stuff we used to wear in 1990 and the way MTB was even back then and how it probably looked to the walkers and horse riders. Not much has changed really, can't blame e-bikes for any of it. The market's still mainly middle-aged blokes and the imagery and styling all go with that.
I know what you mean though, as MTB goes more MOAR what's happened to more toned-down XC riding? Trends and scenes develop until close to parody and then something comes along to fill in the middle ground between what that trend once was and what it's become. That's how we have gravel bikes : )
Agreed!
That’s how we have gravel bikes : )
I think that's why I enjoy mine 🙂
Just look at this very magazine. The current issue has lots of Gnar, lots of ebikes, and epic overseas trips.
The whole thing has very little to do with the type of riding I have always done.
Some on here like charging round trail centres but I am sure a lot of people don't do that sort of riding.
The whole thing has very little to do with the type of riding I have always done.
Would anyone read a magazine that only features you and your local rides?
No but the current offering is not that great. I accept that I won't like all the articles. The last bimble article they had they did on ebikes.
The relentless jumpy trail centre stuff is just as dull. There are nice things to see if you emerge from the trail centres.
If it was based around my type of riding it would be very dull as I am somewhat past my use by date, but lots of people do all sorts of stuff that is interesting.
The best thing recently was Amanda's touring in Spain, that didn't make the magazine.
No E-bike for me, thanks.
54, and resonably fit with no major health issues.
I can manage the hills at my own pace, and can do many miles if I'm not trying to break records.
The compromise of an E-bike is that you get a free pass up the hills, at the expense of a massively heavier bike for all other times. Also, I'd be stuffed if something broke and I was in the middle of nowhere with a lump of a bike to drag back to humanity.
Just done a ride today on the 916 I did on the KSL in Thursday night...same distance and elevation.
On Thursday it was a group of proper bikes and mopeds. I didn't want to be that dick just blasting off ahead, so hung back and still had fun.
Today was all proper bikes, and it was much harder work. Higher max and average heart rate (both 20 bpm higher) more calories used, but nearly the same riding time.
The KSL is great for powering through mud, especially when there's hills, and riding from the door it's great for getting back up to the top of the hill where I live, but the 916 is a better bike (I'd love it with an SL or TQ motor and lightweight battery). The KSL I can also ride with a down jacket on. No chance on the 916.
However, if it'd been a group of SL bikes or probably would've been a harder ride, and if it'd been a mix of SL and full power, I wonder how much the turns would've tabled.
I’d be interested to know if there is any intersection between the eebers and the gravelists….
That'll be me - my gravel bike is an e-bike (first on both counts), and was bought to make bike packing with my (much) younger riding buddies, more enjoyable. It has worked a treat.
As for the lack of friendliness - I have singlespeed, gears, hybrid, gravel, e-bike & road bike (I also have a unicycle, but we won't go there) but none of those stop me from being friendly towards others - regardless of their bike choice (even if that's to not have one)
This is just like the "cyclists Vs drivers" fallacy - it's just sociable folk Vs sociopaths, really.
Bikes, mates, fun & cake - that's all you need to know.
“The KSL I can also ride with a down jacket on. No chance on the 916.”
That’s an interesting point. I would melt in a down jacket when riding my Levo - I wear the exact same clothes as on my normal bike. I guess that shows how much of it is down to how the rider chooses to use an ebike. It’s not about the bike!
Just done a ride today on the 916 I did on the KSL in Thursday night…same distance and elevation.
On Thursday it was a group of proper bikes and mopeds. I didn’t want to be that dick just blasting off ahead, so hung back and still had fun.
Today was all proper bikes, and it was much harder work. Higher max and average heart rate (both 20 bpm higher) more calories used, but nearly the same riding time.
The KSL is great for powering through mud, especially when there’s hills, and riding from the door it’s great for getting back up to the top of the hill where I live, but the 916 is a better bike (I’d love it with an SL or TQ motor and lightweight battery). The KSL I can also ride with a down jacket on. No chance on the 916.
However, if it’d been a group of SL bikes or probably would’ve been a harder ride, and if it’d been a mix of SL and full power, I wonder how much the turns would’ve tabled
For group rides on a mix of bikes is where I think I could probably make use of an SL rather than my full fat, both for the relative effort that needs to be used and for the gates and stiles
The effort put in on my ebike always goes well up when I'm on my own, or with just other ebikes.
Either way, I still blummin sweat and wouldn't go as far as a down jacket, but can generally get away with an extra layer over the leg powered guys
Just done a ride today on the 916 I did on the KSL in Thursday night…same distance and elevation.
On Thursday it was a group of proper bikes and mopeds. I didn’t want to be that dick just blasting off ahead, so hung back and still had fun.
Today was all proper bikes, and it was much harder work. Higher max and average heart rate (both 20 bpm higher) more calories used, but nearly the same riding time.
The KSL is great for powering through mud, especially when there’s hills, and riding from the door it’s great for getting back up to the top of the hill where I live, but the 916 is a better bike (I’d love it with an SL or TQ motor and lightweight battery). The KSL I can also ride with a down jacket on. No chance on the 916.
However, if it’d been a group of SL bikes or probably would’ve been a harder ride, and if it’d been a mix of SL and full power, I wonder how much the turns would’ve tabled.
Not sure what any of that means . Just sounds like a small dick trying to swinging in the wind to me.
You could have summed it up by saying you went for two rides on different bikes with different people.🤷♂️
depends what you think your giving up surely? You are clearly giving up unassisted cycling under your own steam and taking up electric motor cycling...lets not confuse the two..
electric motor cycling
This
https://starkfuture.com/products/stark-varg
Is not the same as this.
One you have to pedal quite hard to make go really fast off road.
The other you need to be really fit to ride or it'll try and kill you at every opportunity.
Hope that helps.
Yep that's totally relevant.
cheers 12speedstu
all the big guys were doing analogue bench press
One for your ****bank?
i have 3 self propelled bikes and 1 electric bike so me too. choice is a great thing but they are not the same...disclaimer.....i couldnt pedal enough to power our electricity bills today.
i have 3 self propelled bikes and 1 electric bike
Only three?
You really should try harder.😘
stu..no need to have a **** if you have a fit partner....and if you are ebiking together they are probably fat...so you might need one
Dude.
Lay off the left over Christmas sherry.
lol....im at work on my break....dealing with an 11kv powerline....big ash dropped on all three phases...
beanieripper - you have an ebike, but seem to want to slate them/people that ride them? Strange stance
thanks...happy new year.
Thanks for the help..but i went to the gym today…all the big guys were doing analogue bench press….no eweights in sight
Life isn't a competition... Nobody is standing there with a medal for you when you've finished.
look, im not offended its ok..im not up a tree, its my firm..i dont need a medal. thanks for the compliments...have a great new year folks x
Wow. Checked out of this thread after the third post. Came back just now to find it complete with the usual moronic, inane, ballsack flavoured toss. Well done you guys. Bikes are bikes, despite what the op Troll wants to drive at.
where are you and what are the hills like? I manage 1x on a 38T with an 11-28.
You can see why it is so easy for the government to use culture wars to stir things up and move the focus away from the shit they are doing can't you when people who all ride bikes don't even like other people who ride bikes just because they are not the same bikes as they ride (be it ebikes, gravel bikes, road bikes etc,.)
Bikes are bikes, despite what the op Troll wants to drive at.
Woah there tiger. My OP was a fairly innocent post to gauge how people think about ebikes. It certainly wasn't trolling in any way or designed to provoke the sort of reaction this has turned into.
Fwiw, it did help some of my thoughts about the ebike and funnily enough, after being out on my MTB yesterday, I'm out today on the ebike at Swinley.
I’m out today on the ebike at Swinley
I can't believe you have gone on your motorbike after all the men telling you it's for lazy people.
Hope you're happy now (you probably are).
I was thinking about the electric motorbike thing...
What percentage of current ebike users would happily use a more powerful engine/battery? I know a fair few have already modified there's to make them illegal, but I was thinking in more general terms. If the power limit was, say, doubled (and assuming battery technology kept up) then I reckon close to 100% of users would use it, even if only for certain occasions. Tripled? Quadrupled? Same response I think. All the arguments about having to still work hard would disappear and all the benefits of getting out into the countryside would still exist. There is definitely a group of riders who aren't that interested in the fitness benefits.
It's certainly an interesting topic for Scottish access rights where off-road motorcycling is basically prohibited.
As far as I can see ebike aren't checked for compliance to the rules. Lots of the food delivery bikes are obviously dodgy and ridden by idiots.
Some ebike riders ride like dicks. (As do some normal ice riders).
Who is going to enforce legal compliance off road?
As far as I can see ebike aren’t checked for compliance to the rules.
Sure, but most buyers are relying on shops not to sell them illegal bikes, if they're even aware of the restrictions. It gets a bit more grey with direct sales, especially of bikes built for other markets. To an extent, I think the genie is already out of the bottle. It'll be interesting to see where we are in 10 years time (by which time an electric motorbike might be ideal for me 😂 )
As far as I can see ebike aren’t checked for compliance to the rules. Lots of the food delivery bikes are obviously dodgy and ridden by idiots.
The amount of news articles about police crack downs and seizures of exactly this would contradict your statement.
In Manchester the bike lanes are full of food delivery bikes which congregate around the takeaways on Oxford Rd. Most are so shonky and so fast they make using the cycle facilities scary. These are easy to tackle. Because the news reports ebike crack downs doesn't make it widespread or effective.
It's great when you are in the cycle lane when some dick is approaching you at 20mph a on the wrong side of the road with pedestrians next to the bike lane.
If you think illegal ebike use in your area is an issue report incidents to the police, raise the issue with your parish council & local MP. The police are unlikely to do anything unless they feel it's a public concern. Nothing will change otherwise.
What percentage of current ebike users would happily use a more powerful engine/battery
Despite having mine deristricted, I don't need/want any more power. It generally gets ridden in eco and when I do need it, boost had more than enough power.
Batteries, yeah I'm all for more powerful batteries
Life's to short I just avoid the bike lanes. They will have a clamp down when they kill a pedestrian.
They will have a clamp down when they kill a pedestrian.
Will they?
Didn't notice any fallout for fixies when that fella killed that lass.
And even if the police did I'm sure it would be met with a 'they're anti-bikes' rally cry from many on here, or the eternal 'haven't you got real crime to investigate'.
If the power limit was, say, doubled (and assuming battery technology kept up) then I reckon close to 100% of users would use it, even if only for certain occasions. Tripled? Quadrupled? Same response I think.
I can't see the power limits getting raised, so it's a moot point.
I've gone from a full power Rail to a low power Kenevo SL. I have to work harder than before but the lighter bike is a joy to ride in comparison to the steamroller that was the Rail. As battery tech improves bikes will get lighter, which makes them better.
I’ve gone from a full power Rail to a low power Kenevo SL. I have to work harder than before but the lighter bike is a joy to ride in comparison to the steamroller that was the Rail. As battery tech improves bikes will get lighter, which makes them better.
Yeah, that's when I might be more interested too.
I was thinking about the electric motorbike thing…
Me too.
As I come from an MX/Enduro background the Stark Varg I linked to earlier holds real interest for me and also the EM trials bike.
https://electric-motion.co.uk/products/2024-em-epure-race
Oddly i have no interest in getting back into it with a petrol powered bike, but the electric bikes seem to have an attraction for me.
If I was to buy one though it'd be for a completely different use case than either my Ebike or any of my pedal bikes.
We have an MX track pretty close to where I live and there are also plenty of legal places I could ride a trials bike.
Everyone that I know that's still racing MX/enduro and riding trials also own ebikes and pedal bikes.
They can differentiate between them all and have no problems with any of them.
Seems it's just a few MTBers that get all hung up on what someone else is doing.
I find it all a little odd TBH.
What about at these E-enduro events? No one as far as I am aware does checks on these bikes for being chipped/de-restricted. How is that fair?
Plus- does de-restricting them make them illegal?
I can see the benefits of ebikes from a fun and utility POV but its very much a first world discussion in the MTB context. I dont see many poverty spec e-mtbs at trail centres...thats a LOT of money on essentially a toy. Let the well off enjoy them...
What about at these E-enduro events? No one as far as I am aware does checks on these bikes for being chipped/de-restricted. How is that fair?
Checks are carried out at Western Bike events and Southern Enduro. Apparently the checks aren't perfect but they are doing what they can.
What percentage of current ebike users would happily use a more powerful engine/battery?
Nope I'm happy riding in eco or tour+ depending on who I'm riding with.
If the power limit was, say, doubled (and assuming battery technology kept up) then I reckon close to 100% of users would use it, even if only for certain occasions. Tripled? Quadrupled? Same response I think.
I’m fine with the power, the arbitrary 25kmh limit is a little annoying on a fast trail, but I haven’t bothered enough to go and find a solution that works with the latest Bosch system to derestrict it, so I guess it can’t annoy me that much.
Having owned, or ridden most of the ‘SL’ bikes out there too, they are ultimately pointless to me. They didn’t offer enough over a normal bike for me, as a fitter person & by the time they are a comparable spec, I had ~2kg difference between it and a full power bike.
I was thinking about the electric motorbike thing
Having ridding trials bikes as a kid, it’s something I would do again, but don’t really have any interest in an ICE powered trials bike, but the Electric Motion/Mecatecno electric trials bikes look really good now & are tempting.
Checks are carried out at Western Bike events and Southern Enduro. Apparently the checks aren’t perfect but they are doing what they can.
Having raced e-bikes at both, I’ve never been, or seen anyone getting checked & there is some outright blatant cheating going on.
It’s almost impossible to police, as most of the decent chips can be deactivated by pressing a button & don’t need an on/off reset now.
There is a race series (pedalhounds I think) that has a unrestricted class for eebs, funny how the same riders compete in that, and normal restricted bike events on alternate weekends 🙄
What I've learned is that the ebike can simply mean you get out when you may not on a MTB. Today's conditions I'd have bailed after a mile as I'd have never been able to pedal, it was ridiculous.
Even the ebike struggled more than once meaning a walking section or 3. Couldn't get traction at all.
https://flic.kr/p/2ppJP44
However, if you've ever ridden with me you'll know that I sweat a lot! Like tonnes.
Today though, not so much. I'm sure you can ride an ebike and not lean on the power, but why would you, I don't know. I find myself more in a Z2 than anything, and it's a low Z2 at that.
But slipping, sliding about today was nothing but fun fun fun. Trying not to crash and hanging on is just great.
I guess to answer my own question, it can be giving up/in, but it depends a lot on what 'it' is. You're deffo not giving up on riding bikes, having fun, hitting trails. But you could be giving up on a certain level of riding fitness
As for the SL, which is what my Rise is, my mate used the app and whacked up the performance, it's still only 60nm, but it flies along on boost.
My mate on the Rail9 uses almost exactly the same amount of battery as I do. I never feel I need 'more'
What I’ve learned is that the ebike can simply mean you get out when you may not on a MTB.
Definitely this. I went to FoD yesterday for 2hrs of riding, I wouldn't have bothered if I'd been on the regular bike. Will be back for the day next weekend for a social rise on the regular bike.
Today’s conditions I’d have bailed after a mile as I’d have never been able to pedal, it was ridiculous.
So if you've got an eBike, you can totally disregard the concept that not contributing to worsening trail conditions, is maybe a wise option?
So if you’ve got an eBike, you can totally disregard the concept that not contributing to worsening trail conditions, is maybe a wise option?
It's NYE, lay off the boring pills
We all degrade trails whatever we ride, stop being so sanctimonious ffs
It’s NYE, lay off the boring pills
We all degrade trails whatever we ride, stop being so sanctimonious ffs
So giving consideration to impact on trails is boring?
But I guess being called sanctimonious by somebody who further up the thread admitted to riding an illegal motorbike, sums up your selfish attitude towards your impact on trails and other users.
I bet you're fun at parties. I hope you're not at one tonight spoiing everyone's night.
Just for the record, a load of us were out Friday, some on ebikes, some on normal bikes. We rode through exactly the same mud at exactly the same speed. Killing the trails with our winter riding....
It certainly wasn’t... ...designed to provoke the sort of reaction this has turned into.
I missed this earlier, but hi, you must be new here, welcome to STW...
EEBs are great, brilliant fun and if I had the spare cash to spend on one I’d have one.
Completely understand the animosity though, I’ve never been block passed by a normal mtb at the start of a fire road climb, causing me to lose all speed.
Never had a normal bike hit me when passing on a singletrack climb.
Never met a normal bike riding up a steep one way descent.
I bet you’re fun at parties. I hope you’re not at one tonight spoiing everyone’s night.
Don't worry, I'm not.
Currently making dessert for tomorrow's family gathering, as it's the first Christmas and New Year since my mum died.
Mine too, whatever relevance that has got to this thread 🤷
But sorry for your loss nonetheless
My point being. If some super fit XC rider who puts out twice the power output of your legs comes flying past, do you judge?
You have a perceived level of what 'damage' is allowed to the trails and you set that at leg power. Ergo leg powered damage is fine, but an ebike that may be putting out only as much output as a very fit rider isn't?
Meh, trail erosion has been talked about as being a huge issue by ebikes, but in many years of riding i've never really seen a huge increase in trail damage in years where ebikes weren't around to now, the same areas get mashed up by bikers with or without motors, ebikes aren't a magic carpet ride, they need traction, so spin out stops you dead, hence why low power gets you traction, full power gets you spinning and off the bike, you learn that fast on ebikes, and you probably learnt it on the normal bike as well!
Personally i just think folk who aren't fans of ebikes just dismiss them as everything wrong with biking, reality is they're just another tool for folk to go riding, it's like the old adage about money, having more doesn't change you, it just makes you more of what you already are, same with an ebike or a normal bike.