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I’m neither offended or holier than anything. I’m just poking people with sticks to see how many pages this can go.
No surprise that e-bikes are selling well when compared to normal bikes. People are generally lazy bastards and love new and shiny. I am surprised at the percentages though as they’re ****ing expensive. Are people that well off or just getting in to debt?
A lot of people are well off. The cost of living crisis that the media like to mention every 10 minutes is for those that were already struggling and the thought of buying a bike for the amount that the well off ebikers spend on a tyre would be out of their reach.
Is this thread just an ecu chamber of those justifying their pathetic behaviour?
You need to look at who's buying eMTBs, and they roughly fall in to two categories.
You have those who've bought them in addition to a normal MTB, so they're essentially buying a new category of bike instead of typically replacing an existing bike.
Then you have those who're relatively new to the sport, or getting back into it. This is probably where the biggest growth has come from, as it's the demographic that previously might have tried hiring a MTB, realised it's actually hard work to cycle up a hill and not bothered trying it again, but an eMTB means they no longer have that fitness barrier.
In terms of overall sales, I'd say that if it hadn't been for the new riders, MTB sales overall would have been majorly down. Knowing those in the trade, it's got a similar feeling to the banking crash, where sales nosedived, however this time they've been partially propped up by new riders.
Plus there are a lot of existing riders who've simply been upgrading existing bikes. They've looked at replacing their bike, but what are they actually going to get with a 'new' bike? The answer is not a lot 'new'. Geometry has pretty much stabilised. There's no new latest and greatest wheel size. No new major developments in suspension.
So rather than spend several £k on a 'new' bike, they've been spending a £k or 2 on upgrades.
It's not as simple as saying eMTBs are the future because they are selling more. You need to look at the reasons behind the numbers.
But whenever any kind of substantial effort is required, such as going up a mountain, people are doing little more than waggling their legs.
Just how powerful do you think eBikes are?
I don’t think many folks are riding up and down mountains. More up and down hills and fire roads. I’ve had a go on a couple of e-bikes and pedalling is definitely involved. No standing up needed though and distinctively less zigzagging from tiredness on steep hills. I’m a sucker for punishment though and quite like that horrible bit where you run out of gears, stand up, make strange noises and refuse to look straight ahead for fear of seeing just how far up the hill you haven’t got since you last looked!
In a slightly amusing twist of fate, I snapped a spoke on the Trek on run 1 at BPW today. Scooted to van and jumped on the Orbea Rise and did all day uplifts on it.
Wettest day in history, trails were like rivers. We had a blast. So so so wet !
So so so wet !<br /><br />
Knackered motor warranty claim incoming…
But seriously, fair play to you for going out in this weather and making the most of it. Getting out on a bike and enjoying yourself seems to be something that people here forget to do on a regular basis.
Just how powerful do you think eBikes are?
Based on this, powerful enough to make climbs a breeze on the lowest setting.
Glad you had a good time. 👍
Best day that I had at BPW was when it was heavy rain all day long.
I can get a normal bike over a locked deer fence but I doubt I could do this with a heavy bike.
Well since we're just airing general grievances now 😉 I've noticed a trend of e-bikers complaining/reporting locked gates across tracks that don't have suitable gates to wheel an e-bike through.
Personally I appreciate that the perfect access scenario would be large kissing gates on EVERY gate in the countryside, but there's bound to be a backlash from landowners/managers if they find themselves getting reported to access officers purely because an e-biker couldn't manhandle a bike over an otherwise perfectly good style.
This came up relatively recently near Stirling, the local e-bike contingent had to be dissuaded from reporting a local land manager due to some locked gates that still required climbing. Turns out said landowner was engaged in some delicate access negotiations that might have been derailed.
I guess my bigger grievance is the lovely local trail where someone who obviously couldn't lift their bike over a gate clearly decided to just trample the fence beside it. Guaranteed to endear us all to the landowners 🙄
jumped on the Orbea Rise and did all day uplifts on it.
You Monster, how dare you enjoy yourself with first seeking approval from [handwavey] some random people on the internet telling you you're wrong to have fun like that [/handwavy]
Based on this, powerful enough to make climbs a breeze on the lowest setting.
Just not so. My bikes eco is + 50% ie barely enough to counter the weight of the bike.
Worth remembering that while we can haul bikes over gates, it's just an annoyance usually, there are others with a genuine grievance.
Ever tried hauling a horse over one.
I thought horses could jump over gates.
Yes - but what about ehorses?
So, a genuine question. Considering that some ebikes are expensive and comparativly heavy why are the manufacturers still persisting with derailers? Current gear systems would seem to be fragile, quite crude and prone to wear when used with a motor. I would like to see some sort of gear box for the more expensive ebikes
E-horses aren’t proper horses though. They take all the fun out of that horse dancing sport because they have preset moves. The rider just presses a button, like the demo mode on a keyboard. I predict E-horses will replace flesh horses for dancing sports and racing within 10 years. Not for jumping though, they’re shit at that, the fat bastards
Just not so. My bikes eco is + 50% ie barely enough to counter the weight of the bike.
Eh?
Not wanting to intentionally disagree with you teej, as you are an ebike advocate, but +50% on mine (50lb+) is absolutely flying. My eco is set at 15-20% and still gives way more assistance than is needed to counter the weight of the bike - 15% actually feels 'almost' like a normal bike, 10-12% would probably be the actual point. But I guess it depends on the output of your motor
Spesh describe assistance in a different way to most other suppliers; for example, on a Bosch the percentage denotes the additional assist so for 50% if you put in 1w the motor adds 0.5m up to a maximum of 380% in Boost (I think, it's been a while since I checked what the Bosch motor is capable of). On a Spesh, 50% is half of maximum available assist, so significantly more than the Bosch.
Maybe I am wrong ASTR. Its the latest top of the range bosch. I guess each bike manufacturer sets them up differently?
Eco certainly does not fly along and according to the display is plus 50-% but its a clunky graphic display. Its no quicker than a non ebike uphill
Doomanic has it I think
I put in 100w and the motor adds 50w in eco
So, a genuine question. Considering that some ebikes are expensive and comparativly heavy why are the manufacturers still persisting with derailers? Current gear systems would seem to be fragile, quite crude and prone to wear when used with a motor. I would like to see some sort of gear box for the more expensive ebikes
cost - same as they use poor forks. also gear range. You can get tourers with nuvinci hubs. alfines are not ebike rated IIRC although I am sure they are fine. Rohloff, kinderney would add £1000.
Motor cycles have gears built in or attached to the engine. They don't have third party bits by the rear wheel. The more expensive ebikes are over 10k, in the same ball park as a triumph boneville.
E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.
I’ve read the news stories about the fires caused by e-bikes causing deaths but I’ve never seen a thing suggesting any cities considering banning e-bikes, which cities are they?
New York was one that I am aware of, though they seem to have (recently) walked back some of the original proposals and, rather than an outright ban, they are instead going to regulate the batteries and chargers instead.
Some American universities are also banning ebikes (and escooters) due to fire potential in dorm type accommodation.
E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.
This needs to go on a t-shirt..... Or bumper bike stickers.
Err. I’m getting the impression you don’t actually know what a kissing gate is…
Um, I thought I did? It's the large single leaf style gate with a V shaped fenced off bit that you sort of awkwardly shuffle into whilst swinging the gate from one side to the other?
Done bigly enough it means you don't need to lift a bike up, just wheel it in and out, hence assuming it was the preference for those that can't lift their bikes.
Ah well. I sit corrected then. I think your use of the word perfect threw me 🙂
Personally I appreciate that the perfect access scenario ....
For " perfect" I think we need gates that fully open so you can cycle through them unimpeded.
But I do concur that hoicking them up on their back wheel through a KG is indeed far better than a stile if you're with an eeb.
Ah well. I sit corrected then. I think your use of the word perfect threw me
Apologies, you're correct, perfect would be openable gates throughout but I had corrected for pragmatism, I can accept there may be good reason for vehicle sized gates to be kept locked!
I'm on my second ebb. I was pretty anti ebikes having ridden mtbs for 25 years or so and completed lots of endurance events. Just train more, if you want it easier, is what I thought.
Then I tried one and it was like being 25 again. For me the best bits have been my Mrs, hated the effort of mtb but got an ebb and now we ride together weekly and have had some great mtb holidays. I also caught a light dose of cancer last year, which needed a bit of chemo. I rode every weekend during chemo, which would have been impossible on a regular bike. I can also ride with my mates on ebbs on a Saturday and be good to go again Sunday with the Mrs. I still feel like a cheat occasionally but for me emtbs have opened things up for me and I'm have much more fun
Doomanic has it I think
I put in 100w and the motor adds 50w in eco
Ah ok, that explains it. I get it now 👍
Who would have thought that the big problem that needed solving in mountain bikes was the need to pedal them?
The next real problem to solve is the need to steer them.
I'm sure Musk is on the case.
My ebike does steer itself. Into trees, puddles, ditches etc. Clearly nowt to do with me
May be the way forward is to build drone bikes which could be ridden and controlled by an eturbo trainer.
That way ebikers could get assistance for cycling without actually going outside.
E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.
This makes no sense. e-bikes aren't single use, you don't chuck them away after a ride, and vaping is the replacement activity of smoking, so in your analogy; push bikes are cigarettes? I mean, it;s snappy I'll give you that, but its bollocks.
Bruce, over here in a land with brands the UK doesn't usually get, we have Pinion e-bikes. Rottwild, Bulls and Simplon are starting them with belt drive etc etc
so in your analogy; push bikes are cigarettes? I mean, it;s snappy I’ll give you that, but its bollocks.
I think in that analogy it's cars that are cigarettes, after all, we're all supposed to be rallying around picking up the kids and doing the shopping in e-cargo bikes by now
Which I guess makes all the e-bikers doing laps of trail centres more like the kids who've never touched a cigarette in their life, hanging around outside the school gates puffing away on fruit flavoured vapes? 😂
I was pretty anti ebikes having ridden mtbs for 25 years or so and completed lots of endurance events. Just train more, if you want it easier, is what I thought.
Then I tried one and ...
Not picking on the poster of this comment here .. just saying it's common to hear or read - "I hated e-bikes then I tried one and loved it". What an e-bike offers threatens the identity of riders but they're fun and that's what we're here for.
And that's why I think it's not giving up for most, it's just the (or, 'a') way MTB is going now the option is there.
What an e-bike offers threatens the identity of riders
Agree with that. Some folks have made peace with the adult they've become, and why they choose to cycle and those folks don't care what others do. But eMTB really does challenge what people do "for fun", and some folks have yet to have that conversation with themselves.
On the fire risk, this article from London Fire Brigade points the finger at sketchy conversion kits being the main issue. Having seen some of the bodge job e-bikes doing the rounds in Glasgow for Just Eat couriers and the like, it’s probably not surprising.
E-bike battery fires
Had my Trek exe for 3 weeks now and , for me , it’s a game changer. Had lower back problems for decade’s which meant 2-3 hours riding on my non-assist bike would be render me knackered for a couple of days. The moments when a stall on a tech uphill would also knacker me no longer occur. I now positively look forward to getting out on my bike more frequently and for longer. Entering my sixth decade has suddenly become much nicer.
Plus I now cycle to the woods instead of taking the car.
What an e-bike offers threatens the identity of riders but they’re fun and that’s what we’re here for.
for a lot of cyclists a degree of suffering is part of the activity. if you take away part of the activity you also take away part of their identity, or at least you take away part of what makes up their hobby.
a friend of mine has an e mtb . he thinks it’s great fun but he also thinks that it is not cycling.
“ for a lot of cyclists a degree of suffering is part of the activity”
A nice thing about ebikes is that you can often choose when to suffer or not - I’ve had quite a lot of satisfyingly painful moments either going up something very steep with the power on or trying to keep up with others on normal bikes whilst I’m pedalling an ebike with the motor off.
for a lot of cyclists a degree of suffering is part of the activity
Surely thats a roadie thing? 😉
Surely thats a roadie thing? 😉
e-bikes are one thing, but there is a limit to my patience!
A nice thing about ebikes is that you can often choose when to suffer or not
i guess it’s a perception thing. they don’t appear to be suffering when they blast past on a climb having a chat (with each other, never with me) dressed in warm clothes on a mild day.
massive generalization alert: the odd thing about e-bikers in my area is that they never acknowledge me on a climb. other bike riders, whether faster or slower tend to fall into step for a little chat. though, if you’ve bought an ebike to get in as many runs as possible, why would you talk to people who’ll only slow you down.
for a lot of cyclists a degree of suffering is part of the activity. if you take away part of the activity you also take away part of their identity, or at least you take away part of what makes up their hobby.
It can be applied to other things as well, like supporting a lower-league football club.
For many, following a club that's a bit rubbish and often struggles is a part of the overall experience.
You could reduce/eliminate that by switching to support a Man City but, in doing so, you would lose something.
Or in the words of New Order:
In the end you will submit
It's got to hurt a little bit
massive generalization alert: the odd thing about e-bikers in my area is that they never acknowledge me on a climb.
That is odd. I say hello at the very least and always thank them for making room if I'm going faster. A few years ago there'd be quite a few disparaging remarks as I passed but over time that's dropped off to pretty much zero with banter about tow ropes and milk floats being the norm these days. There's far more people on the internet bitching about eBikes than out in the real world where we're all just out in the woods enjoying ourselves.
That is odd
it is odd. if they do talk they make excuses for having an ebike.
there are some very fast and fit local people who use ebike for shuttling, too.
For many, following a club that’s a bit rubbish and often struggles is a part of the overall experience.<br />You could reduce/eliminate that by switching to support a Man City but, in doing so, you would lose something.
this is fantastic! a late entry for analogy of the year, but you’re in with a good shot for the top prize
“it is odd. if they do talk they make excuses for having an ebike.”
If I’m on my ebike I tend to apologise for being on my cheating bike and carry on past at ebike speed. I don’t like riding alongside a non-ebiker uphill when I’m using the motor because it feels like I’m being one of those annoying people taking the lazy way. If I do ride alongside someone I know to chat who’s on a normal bike I tend to turn the power off so I’m suffering at least as much as they are.
Some years back we had a chap who ran an ebike shop come out on a group XC ride. It was very annoying having him saying “come on Dad” to me (I think it was my first time out after our second child arrived), as I was struggling uphill with a problematic knee that was hurting a lot whilst he was letting his ebike do all the work (also he was almost old enough to be my Dad!) I’d hate to be that person.
I guess another issue is that I’ve been on the internet long enough to know that quite a lot of MTBers have a problem with e-bikes and if I’m out having a nice ride on mine, I don’t want it to be spoilt by an interaction with someone who has a problem with me because of my bike.
Conversely if I’m on my singlespeed hardtail I know that I get bonus points uphill for the lack of gears and bonus points downhill for the lack of rear suspension so I’m unlikely to suffer a negative interaction with another rider.
I was out on my HT the other week grinding up a hill and some walkers commented that it was nice to see someone without a motor.
I never seem to get adverse comment when I am on the ebike though, but then I tend not to go blatting past other riders
massive generalization alert:
It's definitely noticeable. I was out with a group of mates earlier this year, and we had just had a discussion about how eBikers will often just barge past without so much as a warning. As if timed perfectly, one came up behind us, didn't mutter a single word, cut on to the grass to pass, and there was just a crunch followed by him coming to an abrupt halt. Going by the crunch, we reckon a stray branch had removed his derailleur.
if I’m out having a nice ride on mine, I don’t want it to be spoilt by an interaction with someone who has a problem with me because of my bike.
probably why roadies don’t acknowledge other cyclists, they know they are despised 😜
joking aside, you make a good point. point.
The biggest question here I suppose that’s not been tackled afaik “does it actually matter?”
ebikes are harder on the trails than a bike, damage to the surface of a trail is obvious when an ebike blasts past.
there is also the situation where the some riders of e-bikes access places that their ability on a normal bike would prevent them from accessing, then they slide down the hill with their rear wheel locked the entire way creating further damage. just because your bike can take you to the top of a mountain, it doesn’t mean you’ll be able to ride down it
does that actually matter? not really, i suppose.
It’s definitely noticeable. I was out with a group of mates earlier this year, and we had just had a discussion about how eBikers will often just barge past without so much as a warning.
I've a mate who's relatively new to MTB, I get embarrassed at how he blasts past people without a word and quite often have to apologise as I gently meander past after.
I’d guess that how sociable you are has nothing to do with what bike you ride. I chat to everyone and everything when I’m out. I don’t think that would change if I had an eBike. I’d just have a bigger gut, lose my ability to lift things above chest height and be less fit 😉 probably take up vaping and littering too.
Had an ebike 6 years and I’m the lightest and fittest I’ve been in years, the extra speed for effort is a great reward and encourages me to put more effort in. If I wasn’t getting speed as my reward I wouldn’t bother as I’ve no interest in grinding up hills slowly. I’m lighter and as fit as many people I know on normal bikes. Who gives a shit what others think. The only ones that have issues are miserable old cyclists who have spent years being miserable grinding up hills and expect everyone to have to do the same. Sod that gimme speed as my reward for effort 😃
Yeah, but you’re not putting in as much effort so 🤪 also the number of posters on here who whine about components being too heavy and then you claim a veritable lead weight makes you faster. I reckon you’re fat in real life like every weekend warrior 😉
I’ve a mate who’s relatively new to MTB, I get embarrassed at how he blasts past people without a word and quite often have to apologise as I gently meander past after
You weren't at Hamsterley a couple of weeks back were you? Some d#@k tried to force his way past (elbows touching) on some singletrack, shortly after his two mates came by and said 'ignore him he's a p£#@k'.
Now obviously, a d#@k is a d#@k irrespective of the bike they ride but there does seem to be a lot of riders new to the sport who lack trail etiquette (basic manners?) and who's only experience of MTBs are ebikes which I think amplifies this and winds people up.
[img] https://64.media.tumblr.com/9cb8658632ea657313b6a9d01415dc76/3c6339ebd37ab9bc-4a/s1280x1920/cbd17f95b3e94e6691a9226f48e5fe5ac802b26e.pnj [/img]
Always worth a repost.
Always worth a repost.
Drinking bottled beer makes you really fat ?
What an e-bike offers threatens the identity of riders but they’re fun and that’s what we’re here for.
I should have said 'some riders' .. but anyway.
for a lot of cyclists a degree of suffering is part of the activity.
It can be, though imho suffering is some term Rapha came up with. It's exertion and it can feel good, but riding is different things to different people.
I’d guess that how sociable you are has nothing to do with what bike you ride.
Why would it. I am totally unsociable, it is due to autism but to people who don't know that (everybody I come across when riding) they will just think I'm rude. At 55 years old I am more than used to it but be good if other people would at least try to understand that not everyone is the same.
Pretty much the same as discussion here, people want to ride different bikes, just accept it. I don't say people have "given up" by using gears, brakes, grippy tyres, suspension etc,. just because I don't, but why would I.
On reflection, just no 🙂
You weren’t at Hamsterley
Nope, D*cks are everywhere and ride all different types of bikes🤷♂️
It’s exertion and it can feel good,
It is and it does.
Now, this will clearly come as a surprise to some posters on this thread, but it's actually possible to exert yourself on an eBike. I'm not saying every eBiker works hard, but some do and enjoy it.
I will admit I haven't read all of the 12 pages so this may have come up already. First, just to ensure being on topic, just ride what the hell makes you smile most before, during, and after your ride. Secondly, is anyone else in the psotion where you love the idea of an eBike but cannot bring yourself to spend 1000's on something that looks minging?
I know looks are personal, and certainly my AM9 will have some thinking it is ugly, but at the moment I would rather spend £100's on adding bling to my 18Bikes No9 HT, than 7k on an ugly eBike (IMHO)
For me an eBike is a tool like a hammer, and a normal bike is a thing of beauty that you look after and give a cuddle after a ride. Is it just me?
I recently bought a Levo and the two rides I've had on it have been completely different to what I'd do on my normal bike. Ive had such a laugh riding the bike through thick mud and slop and up hills purely out of curiosity.
It's a completely different sport really.
The biggest annoyance for me is lugging the thing about. It's a real pain in the arse getting it in and out of the car.
I'm not sure I'd say it's giving up. I'd say it's actually a good motivator for getting out more.
there is also the situation where the some riders of e-bikes access places that their ability on a normal bike would prevent them from accessing, then they slide down the hill with their rear wheel locked the entire way creating further damage. just because your bike can take you to the top of a mountain, it doesn’t mean you’ll be able to ride down it
I do have a couple of vaguely similar concern regarding folks taking Ebikes up mountains.
One is that the number doing this increases, increasing erosion in sensitive areas. The other is that we could see folk getting into conditions for which they are otherwise unprepared.
Neither of these concerns are specific to Ebikes of course and I've yet to see or hear of an increase in mountain rescue call outs so my concerns may well be completely unjustified.
The only ones that have issues are miserable old cyclists who have spent years being miserable grinding up hills and expect everyone to have to do the same.
You've completely missed the point. For a lot of people cycling up hills is not miserable it's brilliant.
A few eebers have posted how they love blasting up hills with their motors on, moving through technical terrain and getting to the top dabless. I, like a huge number of neebers, get a similar sense of joy and satisfaction from riding uphills without the motor. Except it's even more intense and enjoyable.
I think part of the issue, as I said about ten years ago, is that the direction of advancement of bikes over the last decade has made eebs the inevitable conclusion for a lot of people. What I didn't realise at the time was that it also made gravel bikes an equally likely conclusion for pretty much the same reasons.
I'd be interested to know if there is any intersection between the eebers and the gravelists....
If I’m on my ebike I tend to apologise for being on my cheating bike and carry on past at ebike speed. I don’t like riding alongside a non-ebiker uphill when I’m using the motor because it feels like I’m being one of those annoying people taking the lazy way. If I do ride alongside someone I know to chat who’s on a normal bike I tend to turn the power off so I’m suffering at least as much as they are.
Genuinely?
Ive had such a laugh riding the bike through thick mud and slop
Which would give me concerns about erosion and long term trail damage.
I’d be interested to know if there is any intersection between the eebers and the gravelists….
A mate of mine who rides with a load of varied people said, a year or so back, that he'd noticed quite a few of them now ride e-mtbs exclusively off-road and use a gravel bike to maintain fitness. I can see how that appeals, though I wouldn't do it myself.
It's easy to forget that in physiological terms, mountain biking is actually really hard compared to road or gravel riding in the sense that you're always dealing with more weight, more rolling resistance and, often, the need to make a series of repeated hard efforts, just to keep moving. Post long covid it took me far longer to feel relatively 'normal' on a mountain bike than it did on road or gravel one, I think because even what you might call 'entry level' effort - how hard you have to work just to be riding - is significantly higher - or you're really, really slow I guess.