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Is this your first time on the internet?
err, no, why ?
I have been on stw since about 2008.
I haven’t ridden my ebike once this year - I’d have sold it if the new ones weren’t so cheap.
I haven’t missed it much. But every time I go to the woods, where it’s a case of winching up a fire road for 45 minutes to blast down through the trees for a few minutes before repeating (think Golfie and the like), I realise how much more riding I would have fitted in on my ebike.
They absolutely have their place for that kind of riding, no matter how fit you are. Given the kind of riding you do with Jnr, I reckon this might be you too. Take the Rise.
I would respectfully suggest that anyone that hasn’t used an eeb for proper riding is talking out of their hoop.
100% this ☝️ There's a lot of bias (and uneducated) views on this thread isn't there 😂 some need to get off their high horses. Tbh 12 months ago I may have been one of them.
But i can only speak from my own experience as a new to Ebikes rider this year after 30+ on regular MTBs. i've done almost 500 assisted miles since purchase on my first ebike in March this year, and also around 200 on my regular bike since then. Being predominantly a weekend rider, I normally do around 300-350 miles a year on the regular bike. So the ebike has enabled a fair bit of additional milage and smiles, in fact more than doubled my mileage as I've only owned it 9months.
I use the ebike along side the regular bike, if I go to a trial center solo I take both - use the regular bike for xc then the ebike when I'm knackered. If I go to windhill or 417, the ebike gets used for twice the amount of loops over the regular bike (uplift or not) 20+laps instead of 10+. Heart rate stays in a lower zone than it would on a regular bike but still gives good fitness gains without the lung busting + I get additional workout on the downs with double the fun. So you can use an ebike to maintain fitness, it's just a different type of workout.
I can now go for rides with other Ebikers and keep up but I also go for rides with non Ebikers on the regular bike with zero loss of fitness. I could have an ebike as my only bike, but it would restrict my rides, as would only having a regular bike and I enjoy both.
I went to FoD today with an ebiker mate got there at 12, did the red xc as quickly as we could then sessioned the dh trails for the rest of the afternoon, had a blast and still came home with achy legs.
An ebike is not the same as a regular MTB, they are both tools, just different types. How you use it is key. I don't care if an Ebiker is 12, 20 or 80 they are out out having fun putting miles in, who cares if the additional miles are assisted?
Me, because I have to work harder than them to earn my descents which makes me better
Why exactly do you have to 'earn' descents?
So I'm confused. Are eBikes worse than road bikes?
It's not giving up, but I feel the pressure to give in because I'm Billy No Mates on an analogue bike 😂
Though it's not about eebs, just the latest trend and a bit of FMO. Similar where all your mates moved onto 27.5 and now 29 wheels and I'm a wheel size or two behind, not up to the latest number of cogs on cassettes. Maybe I'm a bit of a luddite with bike tech 😄. Though I was instantly sold on dropper posts.
Why exactly do you have to ‘earn’ descents?
Go without pudding if you're on an e-bike, or pedal up a hill on a regular bike.
If ebiking is giving up, what is using an uplift?!!
Also, if I ride my ebike with the motor on is it a motorbike but if I ride it with the motor off, is it then a bicycle?
At a guess I’d say that 75% of my Levo’s mileage has been with the motor off (a mix of proper downhill (I don’t like having the motor on when descending), above the cut-out speed on flat-ish roads, and group rides with normal MTBers so I don’t need the power to keep up and turning the power on makes it too easy).
Throwing a 50lb ebike around on a descent means you earn the assist on the climbs
I’m feeling like weeksy trolled us all then pissed off out for a ride
Well that wasn't my intention but seems that's how it played out.
I then went to the pub to refuel the calories I didn't burn earlier too. Then came back home for more beer.
I was honestly just curious about the perception of others. I'm honestly a fan of ebikes, both before hand and after today. But for me it's a different 'sport' in some ways, like Roadies and CX are, it's a basis on a theme but still different.
I guess for me it's like Trackdays on motorbikes compared to touring, they're the same but massively different too.
I didn't 'work' as hard today as some days on a manual bike, but I still had to get down the tech, the roots, hold speed in the corners and berms etc. I just didn't wipe myself out getting to them.
A bit like a motor bike then.
You could go much faster up and down so why bother with an ebike?
Also, if I ride my ebike with the motor on is it a motorbike but if I ride it with the motor off, is it then a bicycle?
Yes.
I'm just grateful for all you current ebikers for doing all the beta testing that the likes of Shimano, Bosch etc etc didn't bother doing before releasing them onto the market for early adopters to work the bugs out. 😉
One day, I'll be too old/too infirm/too lazy/too short of time to be able ride my mountain bike and your sacrifice should mean that by the time I come to buy an ebike, they'll be just as reliable as my current bike for only a slight weight penalty and for only a slight price premium as the inevitable trickle down of tech brings prices down to something bearable.
Also, just checking...I presume all you ebikers who rack up so many extra rides/miles/ascent (however you choose to quantify it) pay back for the additional wear and tear on trails by doing some trail work and/advocacy and/or financially?
1 mtbing is not a sport unless you are racing
2 ebikes and non ebikes are different pastimes
I have both and use both. I ride non assisted more. The noise weight and lack of range on an ebike annoys me
A bit like a motor bike then.
You could go much faster up and down so why bother with an ebike?<br /><br />
Because you can’t ride a motorbike in many places, but you know that of course and are just trolling.
Also, a moto enduro bike won’t be any faster on technical downhill tracks.
Every time you use turbo a kitten dies
Werewolf is the correct term
Never understand why people get so opinionated about someone else's choice of bike, be it road, gravel, ebike and so on.
You should only speak for yourself if you think it is giving up based on your circumstances and what riding you enjoy doing.
I like riding up hills for example so why would I want an eBike as I am riding faster than 15.5 at all times apart from uphill but they are my circumstances and preferences.
If someone else wants to save energy/time in places to have more for other places then great.
Never understand why people get so opinionated about someone else’s choice of bike
Because the fun of the descents has to be earned by the misery of the climb, otherwise the moral balance of the universe is disturbed. If other people cheat and don't suffer on the climbs, the rest of us have to suffer more to keep things in equilibrium.
I think being Billy No Mates on a shaker bike has driven me to a Eeb. In my younger , fitter days I used to love going up hills - but as I have got older, I became slower. Going around places like the Surrey Hills meant everyone was waiting for me - then the minute you arrive at the top of the hill they set off again!
With the advent of Eebs I am now still last up the hill because I refuse to use Turbo mode. That real is cheating
I was at Glentress the other day. Before I properly spangled myself in Twitcher in a cross wind I saw 11 people including me. 8 were on ebikes. Once I shreaded my jacket and shorts I gave up counting. I'm the most unfit I've been since Y2K. Each time someone passed me I was reassured they were on an ebikeas they flew past me.
Downhill I don't think there was any difference.
Everyone seemed happy on bikes, ebikes and shotgun seats (apart from me after knackerinf myself. To reassure everyone, my bike is ok).
My main thing is climbing. I've never done any aid climbing because the whole point for me is to get to the top and back using my own strength and skill. Using an ebike would feel like aid climbing to me so I'm just not interested for the same reason.
If other people cheat and don’t suffer on the climbs, the rest of us have to suffer more to keep things in equilibrium.
Thank you for taking one for the 'team'. Keep up the good work 😁
My main thing is climbing
I hope you climb down as well as up, anything else would be cheating.
This is STW, nobody ever climbs down.
My main thing is climbing. I’ve never done any aid climbing because the whole point for me is to get to the top and back using your own strength and skill. Using an ebike would feel like aid climbing to me so I’m just not interested for the same reason.
I can and have done climbs on the ebike that wouldn't be possible on a proper mtb, really steep techy stuff that requires a lot of effort to ride. Climbing has never been something I really enjoyed on the mtb but the ebike has opened up a whole load of stuff around my local trails that I wouldn't/couldn't have done otherwise, and I generally get home equally as tired as I did before I bought it (I still have a proper mtb and use it regularly)
@colp not trolling just taking an idea to its logical end point.
I don't really give a stuff what people ride, it's up to them..
It's the ebike evangelism that slightly irks. 🙂
I can and have done climbs on the ebike that wouldn’t be possible on a proper mtb, really steep techy stuff that requires a lot of effort to ride. Climbing has never been something I really enjoyed on the mtb but the ebike has opened up a whole load of stuff around my local trails that I wouldn’t/couldn’t have done otherwise, and I generally get home equally as tired as I did before I bought it
Sorry, I should have been clearer. When I said climbing I meant rock climbing.
I’ve never done any aid climbing
Oh come now, not even a little "French" pull on a hex to get to the top of that grade V in a hoolie to prevent a benightment......?
“ It’s the ebike evangelism that slightly irks. 🙂”
Most of it isn’t evangelism, it’s just different people’s opinions and many of them are understandably enthusiastic about ebikes, because as most find when they try them, they’re really fun!
In 2022 I discovered I love singlespeed MTBing and am keen to bang on about the joys of it. But no-one has had a go at me for being evangelistic about - it yet say anything similar about the joy of my ebike and a slew of people get in a huff.
I hope you climb down as well as up, anything else would be cheating.
In today's wind that is a distinct possibility.
That's because anybody who 'enjoys' riding a singlespeed, is already well beyond any kind of help, plus they generally don't get offended when you make a joke about singlespeeding.
eBikers on the other hand have a habit of getting all defensive, as if they're insecure about their decision to use an ebike. 🤐
But I am both those people simultaneously - I only have two MTBs! One has gears, front and rear suspension and a motor, the other has no gears, no rear suspension and no motor.
I’m the same person whichever bike I’m riding or talking about. And the two bikes are more similar to ride than any hardtail + full-sus pairing I’ve previously owned.
It’s not a case of being insecure about ebikes, it’s a case of those shooting down ebikes generally haven’t ridden them, don’t know what they’re talking about, and have come to all the wrong conclusions. A similar thing happened 10-15 years ago regarding dropper posts: “IF YOU NEED A DROPPER POST IT’S BECAUSE YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO RIDE A MTB PROPERLY!” And look at MTBs now…
eBikers on the other hand have a habit of getting all defensive, as if they’re insecure about their decision to use an ebike.
Being (semi) serious for a mo...
This is, I think, because SSers already know they look a bit ridiculous, and generally an SS bike costs less than a geared bike (unless it's a bling Ti Jones 😆) so it's just a bit of bike riding fun.
Whereas, ebikers know that a certain proportion of other cyclists dislike their choice of bike instantly, and they've also dropped a substantial wodge on the ebike (decent ones from £3-4k?) so to they can feel quite defensive about their choice.
I'm very much of the ride what you like viewpoint...BUT...I do take a bit of friendly pee out of mates who own ebike (but they know it's good humoured) unfortunately it's difficult to gauge humour online, so I'll stop it on here.
I’m the same person whichever bike I’m riding or talking about.
How do you know that? What if you're not but you just don't realize it?
I think if we keep going we should all reach total enlightenment at some point this week.
Do we have a collective view on a single speed ebike? It could be fully rigid with panniers if that helps?
I think another part of it is that billions has been spent promoting ebikes.
With the main target market being people who already own bicycles.
So it pays to present ebikes as being exactly the same thing - just another option.
To promote the benefits, while hooking into all the existing positive connations of cycling.
To remove any of the unease/barriers.
And a genius thing about ebikes is the need to turn the pedals before the motor will engage.
Because without that, if the pedals were removed - it would give a truer reflection of what's happening.
The bike industry is benefitting massively from conflating bicycles with motorised bikes.
But they're two fundamentally different activities.
Not better or worse - just different.
“ This is, I think, because SSers already know they look a bit ridiculous, and generally an SS bike costs less than a geared bike (unless it’s a bling Ti Jones 😆) so it’s just a bit of bike riding fun.”
I haven’t added up what my singlespeed cost but it’s a Moxie with Lyrik RC2 fork, DT Swiss wheels, Hope brakes, BikeYoke dropper… But I’ve never owned a bike that attracts so much attention, mostly on account of it being spectacularly pink. It’s far more popular (and capable) than I am!
Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche.
Indeed. And it’s a bit of a shame IMV.
I’ve ridden a few times in the year with people who mostly/exclusively e-bike, one of whom was on their non-assisted enduro bike. None of them had particularly great fitness IMV.
A big disadvantage of e-bikes is that they’re not suitable for hike-a-biking which rules out quite a lot of the more interesting big mountain days.
I do not like climbing. I do like the sense of achievement having climbed something and got to the top of it.
I love descending. Part of the reason that I love mountain biking is that the thrill of the descent motivates me to go and get exercise on the climbs.
@copa, those are very much reflect some of my thoughts, I do think they're missing the mark by not really marketing e-Bikes to people who don't currently ride and/or who have physical limitations and might genuinely benefit from motor assistance (I know those products are available, but they're not being pushed...
The narrative is that now otherwise fit middle-aged people can shred more gnarr, more stoke per pedal stroke etc.
Hence my general cynicism about EMTBs, a shiny new Levo or whatever is probably close to being E-waste in ~5 years when whatever motor or battery packs up for the third time and has already been discontinued. There's seemingly no consistent industry-wide standards for mountings and interfaces: And none of that matters to the people selling them because the target market is basically new-golfers.
I agree they're not the same thing as bicycles, I don't necessarily have a problem with eebs existing, but I'm tired of them being evangelised about as if they add some previously missing ingredient to MTBing, they only add cost and take away effort, not everyone values those USPs...
At the same time I recognise I'm not immune to bicycle industry fads, I loves me a Gravel bike but recognise that was pushed as much by the marketing departments as it was by riders...
“ And a genius thing about ebikes is the need to turn the pedals before the motor will engage.
Because without that, if the pedals were removed – it would give a truer reflection of what’s happening.”
Hello Mr Conspiracy Theorist! 😉
I’m sure I can’t be the only person out there who enjoys pedalling a bike and enjoys that when he’s on his ebike it’s just like pedalling his normal bike but if gravity was adjusted or a tailwind added. I don’t want a low power electric motorbike, I LIKE PEDALLING.
Others may have different opinions. They’re welcome to have different opinions. But they can’t have different facts, facts are facts.
A big disadvantage of e-bikes is that they’re not suitable for hike-a-biking which rules out quite a lot of the more interesting big mountain days.
Not so sure about that. There's a whole new subdivision available. I've spent plenty of time pushing, lifting and crying getting my ebike to the top of a couple of Highland summits. I was last to the top, but my upper body and core are like granite now (or rather they were) 😲.
*marks up Copa as a fully paid up, tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist*
It's definitely not.
I don't want or need one YET. I will almost certainly want / need one in 10-15 years time because I'll want to still do my rarest but favourite kind of riding which is big days out on bigger hills with big views and I'll want to do that without feeling like I need a week lying down to recover.
That's not giving in. It's the exact opposite, it's defying your body's attempts to stop you doing what you love.
Honestly if my sons keep riding this stuff I may need one sooner. The eldest is handing me my **** on climbs all the time. Experience is allowing me to dispatch him on the downhills though (for now). At some point I might need that mechanical advantage.
I don’t want a low power electric motorbike, I LIKE PEDALLING.
(picks up poking stick) get a SS in a really shitty gear ratio then.
I’m sure I can’t be the only person out there who enjoys pedalling a bike and enjoys that when he’s on his ebike it’s just like pedalling his normal bike but if gravity was adjusted or a tailwind added. I don’t want a low power electric motorbike, I LIKE PEDALLING.
This is where I see an e bike in my future. I don't want the motor to do it all. Just a bit of help to do what I already enjoy.
Electric motorbike with twist and go does not appeal in the slightest.
As for badly geared SS isn't that the exact opposite of enjoying pedalling? Even a well geared one is an odd combination of a spin class and straining your knees with a nice sweet spot of riding contouring Singletrack somewhere in between?
It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s a pragmatic way to sell expensive things to people like you.
It's funny, because my entry into ebike ownership has been completely unexpected and I wasn't even looking, or yearning for one, so your arguement is kind of hollow, at least for me.
Of course we're all marketed too. Its impossible not to be in our society.
But dressing it up as sage wisdom and painting everyone that has a different opinion from yours as sheeple is quite amusing, and kinda disappointing. It's such a lazy way of presenting your pretty baseless opinions as legitimate.
There are plenty of people on this thread that are using eebs perfectly happily, and recounting their positive experiences, yet somehow it's all a great corporate plan and people don't have their own agency or thoughts, and we're all regurgitating market blurb in an effort to justify our purchases?
Your argued yourself to irrelevance, but I respect your right to do so.
A great late contender for Strawman Argument of the Year 2023.
Good work @scienceofficer
“It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s a pragmatic way to sell expensive things to people like you.”
Except I’m someone who’s always enjoyed pedalling and wasn’t planning to buy an ebike - but my LBS had a newly arrived 2019 demo Levo back in Nov 2018 and I took it out for a quick spin around the nearby roads and park just to see what an ebike was like. And loved it, especially the handling.
By the time I returned I realised that if I got one I could commute on it every day and it would make my commute so much more fun, let me fit in more actual MTBing in my time-squeezed life, and save me time/energy on the shortest route commutes when life was proving a bit exhausting.
And they did me a decent deal which meant that it worked through my bike to work scheme thing, which it actually is used for. I didn’t expect it to cause me to sell my other full-sus, or to cause me to replace my 27.5 hardtail with a 29er but it’s all worked out well.
Bought our first one back in 2017 after demoing a Factory Team riders bike at the Tweedlove Enduro. Daughter had demoed it the day before whilst out on practice. Thought it was a good idea as part of her training.
Rang our local dealer from the campsite and ordered one with 35% discount. Sold it during lockdown to a mate who needed a couple of bikes. It's still going strong on original motor and battery.
The abuse shouted at us out on the trails then was disgusting but never put us off.
Never get them comments on the trails now. It's usually "nice bike mate."
I've lost count how many have had a go on ours when out on the trails.
Only ever had Levos so can't really coment on some of the others as not riden them
Never going to stop the moaners on here so I tend to just brows past them
I ride probably 50/50 between the Levo and the Enduro.
Oh come now, not even a little “French” pull on a hex to get to the top of that grade V in a hoolie to prevent a benightment……?
Of course but only as a last resort.
Edit: mind you, if had an 'emergency power assist' button on my bike I'd have pressed it for the last half hour of today's ride into that brutal headwind!
“As for badly geared SS isn’t that the exact opposite of enjoying pedalling?”
Absolutely! Whenever I ride my singlespeed MTB on flat tarmac for longer than a brief moment it’s a very annoying spinny thing.
“Even a well geared one is an odd combination of a spin class and straining your knees with a nice sweet spot of riding contouring Singletrack somewhere in between?”
Not at all! There’s the odd spinny bit but mostly you focus on pumping and working the terrain and carrying speed through the turns, and the standing and stomping uphill has proven to be the best solution yet for making my faulty right knee happier. (Other knees may vary…)
This now makes me think that maybe my illogically long, slack, big-forked singlespeed is more logical than I thought, because it’s very good at monster-trucking through the rough, and finding grip in the turns. So although it’s a less efficient pedaller than a shorter-forked or rigid singlespeed, maybe I don’t have to pedal it as much?
Electric motorbike with twist and go does not appeal in the slightest.
That wouldn’t be a (legal) ebike though?
I don't understand how buying an e bike when not wanting to buy an e bike is evidence of immunity to, or failure of, marketing? Surely it's evidence of successful marketing?
Also I see a gap in the market for single speed e bikes. Who wants one?
Buying on the fun factor and impulse. Every bike I've owned since 1987 has been bought on impulse and never been disappointed.
As for badly geared SS isn’t that the exact opposite of enjoying pedalling? Even a well geared one is an odd combination of a spin class and straining your knees with a nice sweet spot of riding contouring Singletrack somewhere in between?
I've found that I don't mind the extremes of ss riding (fixed in my case). In fact I quite like the fact that what my legs are doing is largely dictated by terrain. If I'm spinning out, I'm happy to slow down. If you can't get over that mental hurdle then ss probably isn’t for you.
Electric motorbike with twist and go does not appeal in the slightest.
Loic seems to like his twist and go.
I don’t understand how buying an e bike when not wanting to buy an e bike is evidence of immunity to, or failure of, marketing? Surely it’s evidence of successful marketing?
I agree.
The fact that I was aware of them and their capability, and the massive price reductions around cyber week, or whatever its called, shows it was successful.
But to suggest I bought its purely because of those things denies my agency in the process, no? So few aspects of peoples decision making is binary.
These threads do make me laugh. I don't know who is more ridiculous the hair shirters who enjoy climbing - ruddy weirdos! climbs are to be tolerated for the fun bits.<br />Or the ebikers who claim they turn the motor off or only use minimal assistance - aye right! Why bother with an ebike then?
climbs are to be tolerated for the fun bits.
I just don’t get this view.
2/3’s of most rides are up hill, if you only like the downs then you’re spending the majority of a ride doing something you don’t like.
Climbs are great fun, particularly hard, twisty ones that are a good test of both skills and fitness.
Are for the OP, well it depends what you ride for. Personally, the fitness and the graft is a huge part of the appeal, but if you only ride for the downhills then an eeb isn’t giving up, it’s just removing the bits that you don’t find fun.
These threads do make me laugh.
Literally or metaphorically? I don't know you in person, but based on your history of posting, I've never imagined you actually laughing out loud. You could resolve this by posting a video of you laughing, preferably in response to reading a STW thread.
And, just in case anyone pulls the "you show me yours and then I'll show you mine" evasion, I have been well conditioned to never laugh out loud in public, through beatings inflicted with the blessings of the Holy Father, although I have been known to chuckle, a weakness I work on. However, I do not laugh and there is no video evidence in existence that I have ever done so.
I thought MTB riders were a lot more open minded about e-bikes than their luddite road cousins. It seems there's a few too many roadies on here......
If an e-bike enables more people to get out into the countryside/ bike parks, then that's good in my view. And it's not cheating either......
I don’t know you in person, but based on your history of posting, I’ve never imagined you actually laughing out loud
And I’d never have imagined he happily rides with helmet wearing friends on illegal electric bikes but he bloody does!
I thought MTB riders were a lot more open minded about e-bikes than their luddite road cousins. It seems there’s a few too many roadies on here……
Ever been on pinkbike? The comments sections are filled with Ebike hatred. It's bonkers
And I’d never have imagined he happily rides with helmet wearing friends on illegal electric bikes but he bloody does!
LOL.
I don't think the e bike I'd want exists yet. None of this eco mode stuff, max power up technical climbs for at least 40 miles on a single battery, downhill bike levels of performance for the fun stuff, not ridiculously heavy, reliable or at least easy to fix. Sign me up in 10 years when this is a thing.
I'd still have a normal bike as well though, I kind of like the suffering I think it does me good.
Lunge – Weirdo!
@tjagain, I’d argue it’s weirder to participate in something you don’t enjoy 70% of the time.
An ebike pretty much wipes out the option of parts of the trail where you have to suffer a lot, like steep climbs. The option of upping the assistence level is too easy to succumb to. If that's what you want as it is an important part of your fitness training, then keep the ebike for fun or lazy days. Climbing a hill in zone 2 doesn't really count as suffering...
A good option would be if you could get an add-on to your turbo trainer so it charges your battery up, then you can do the pain part on your trainer, and not feel guilty just having fun on the ebike as you've already earnt the climbs.
Some people talk an awful lot of bollox
I just don’t get this view.
2/3’s of most rides are up hill, if you only like the downs then you’re spending the majority of a ride doing something you don’t like.
Exactly. Perfect description of UK mountain biking.