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The getting them over fences/locked gates thing is the worry, otherwise I would be very interested if I could get one. The time has definitely come.
Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche.
I'm going to take the opposite tack and predict that this comment will come back and bite you on the bum. 😉
I feel like I’ve been cheating recently, riding the gravel bike 6 of the last 7 rides and avoiding the hills , struggling to hit 1500m a week at the moment. and I’m coming home clean from avoiding the inch of muck on my gear
Last few times at wharnie seems everyone’s on an ebike, some riders do tend to get a lot more runs in, but plenty of fat lads who blast past you on the uphills and always seem to be chatting at the top when you catch up .
been chatting to my regular riding buddies and asked the same question, when/if , sticking to legs for the time being
Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche.
I really don't know about that one, people keep saying it as if the demise on unassisted MTBs is inevitable, but honestly I don't see it. Surely there will always be a place for human powered bikes. For one thing does anyone really want to watch/participate in e-Bike racing?
I got my first singlespeed MTB a few years after replacing my full-sus with an ebike. The Levo does the commuting (a lot off-road and always some air time), and the away trips (uplift days etc). The singlespeed hardtail does most of my local MTBing.
Having a motor lets you choose to pedal hard or soft depending on time pressures and/or fatigue and/or mood. It’s a very good thing when you have a life that is annoyingly busy due to children and work and don’t get to ride as much as you’d like to, and you don’t get the time to recover between rides because of other life pressures.
Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche.
All depends on what people want out of it, doesn’t it? Point of entry for eMTBs is still very high and while some of you seem to find this hard to believe, there are people that enjoy the climbing more than the descents.
I really don’t know about that one, people keep saying it as if the demise on unassisted MTBs is inevitable,
Its probably based on a skewed view of off road riding. If you usually go to certain trail centres you might get the impression that unassisted MTBs are on the way out but its not a representative sample.
If you usually go to certain trail centres you might get the impression that unassisted MTBs are on the way out but its not a representative sample.
This. I don't really go to trail centres, and it's good to know where all the chubby whingers are corralled.
Most of the people I see out on local trails eMTBs are… distinguished. But if it keeps them riding, it’s a good thing, and given that I do most of my riding midweek the other people I see out tend to be retired.
If it's getting people out, when they possibly wouldn't ride, then great.
Me and the lads I ride with have cycled for years - road and MTB and none of us will get an e-MTB unless we've 'something' that will stop us. Three of us have had bad accidents on bikes, multiple times, but got back on.
Little and regular is the key to keeping fit - I'm back commuting after getting my spine broken 8 years ago. It took me five years to road bike again, but I now do lots more MTB. I bought a CX bike this year to mix up some of my road routes to avoid the crappy traffic laden roads.
If you can nly get out once a week, then an e-bike can make some sence and you can get the miles in.
owned 2 x Ebikes about 12 years ago, to continue riding whilst ill.
once i got better, i got rid, because i enjoy a bit of suffering.
and i have to be honest, the thought of riding a assisted bike whilst i am fit and able enough to ride a normal bike is not for me. it would mess with my head.
so for me, Yes if you are fit and able.
or No, if you are using it as a aid to keep cycling.
I can see myself doing that a bit later on like masterdabber, but for now quad powered riding, increasing fitness and distance, getting up iconic climbs in the alps is giving me my kicks.
Thinking tho of getting Mrs Epic one, as that might allow us to get out together again, which hasn't happened much post kids.
I'm waiting for the Ohlins edition of this and I'm all in.
Yes, it's giving up biking to go e-biking.
'There is no calamity greater than lavish desires There is no greater guilt than discontentment And there is no greater disaster than greed.'
Meh, same old argument that's gone round the bazaars since MTB came in to existence, be it about suspension, aluminium, carbon, singlespeed vs gears, etc, etc.
Use what you want to use, it's your limited time, if an ebike fits you better, use it, if not, use the other, i love my normal bike for going downhill on, it's lighter, more manoeuvrable and feels better, but the ebike is great for a couple of hours where you want to go and see a few areas and cover miles, for me it's about the limited time i get to go on the bike and what bike fits that better on that day.
When I cycled across the Netherlands last year - ebikes were everywhere - some old dears were hammering past me - to the shops - those old girls have not given up. They had kept going because of the ebike. Contemplating getting one as a commuter / shopping / utility bike.
Contemplating getting one as a commuter / shopping / utility bike
Perfect uses IMO.
But if you actually enjoy cycling and want to get out in nature on a bike then why over-complicate it with a motor?
(Said as someone who did 45km on an SS, rigid, cable disc brakes MTB yesterday 😉)
But this is a circular argument, and will go round and round forever.
Those who like them will like them, those who don't won't.
Just don't get annoyed when the piss is taken (I love making a vroom vroom noise when passed by an ebike) shows that you have a thin skin 😁
Not for everyone, but for most people yes.
I've a cargo bike that can carry 180kg that has a motor. That makes sense, imo.
I get it for cargo bikes, commuters, recovery from illness, (properly) old people. For everything else it feels like it’s just the human race’s quest for convenience over a bit of hard, but ultimately rewarding, work. Always backed up with excuses like too old, bad knee, not enough time.
Meanwhile the 75 year old audaxer is still putting out 200 miles on their old touring bike.
If this really is the future then it makes me more than a bit sad. How long before we have electric walkers for climbing the Munros?
It just feels a bit like this
^^ agreed.
Loving the idea of it becoming the norm. That could only happen on here. They are way out of your average persons budget. I think they are great if you’re old, knackered, recovering from accidents/illness, commuting etc. Not for me but I don’t begrudge anyone else using them. I’m only just at the place where I think rear suspension could make sense and I’m in my late forties!
All the folk saying you can choose how much effort to put in on an eBike also fail to realise that 99.9% of riders aren’t going to do that. They’ll just whack it in turbo or another higher setting. People, in the main, are lazy ****ers and will take the path of least resistance.
Meanwhile the 75 year old audaxer is still putting out 200 miles on their old touring bike.
Does the 75 year old audaxer want to do some laps of the Golfie or Wharncliffe or BPW? If he did he'd probably need a different bike.
I'd rather put my nuts in a beehive than pedal for 200 miles.
I was always of the opinion that ebikes were cheating.
Then last year I bought one, a Giant E-Trance.
Now I love it and ride it almost twice as much as my HT and FS put together, both of which are good bikes.
I'd simply say it is as hard/easy as you want it to be. Cheating - no, as you still need to put effort in.
Easier, of course, if you wish it to be so - but does that make it cheating?
What surprised me, is just how hard work it is to keep up with it in the 'turbo' mode.
By this, I mean using heart rate to measure my effort. By putting the same effort in as I would on a non ebike, the speed and skill needed is far greater than non assisted.
Clearly you can't ride like that in most places and it does need hills and varied terrain to allow you to put that much effort in, but in such scenarios it is in no way easier than a normal bike.
However, 90% of rides are not to that level. I use mine in the mid power setting and probably use say 50% of my own power compared with a non eeb, but I can go out for twice as long.
For me, I'd say that if you are fit enough to ride all day off road and/or climb mountains etc, you maybe won't feel the benefit of an electric bike.
For everybody else, they are great. Cheating in terms of power required - absolutely. Cheating in terms of riding pleasure and smiles - absolutely not 🙂
I can’t ride all day without being knackered but I enjoy the being knackered bit. So I’d fall under your everyone else and still not want one. I enjoy the challenge of riding and doing it under my own steam. The idea of adding more faff to a bike doesn’t appeal either. There’s enough to go wrong without having a motor and batteries to look after, clean, service etc. Big fat nope from this unfit rider.
I was short of time today, but wanted to get out as the weather has been decent & the trails were running well.
So I did. 1h33m of riding & 1552m of descending in 23km. Obviously on my ebike.
Try doing even half that on a normal bike in the same time.
FWIW, fit & able, healthy BMI, mostly ride a normal bike & capable of bashing out a regular 2000m vert climbing day trail riding without having to make it an ‘event’.
It’s not giving up, it’s being effective with my time.
Now I’m going out for a beer & burger.
Meanwhile the 75 year old audaxer is still putting out 200 miles on their old touring bike.
Does anyone not have a mental image of audax that features a grey-haired man grimly pedalling his Dawes Galaxy through incessant rain?
Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche.
‘There is no calamity greater than lavish desires There is no greater guilt than discontentment And there is no greater disaster than greed.’
Maybe I'm not understanding the context of the second quote but it seems to summarise my distaste for e-bikes, lots of fit and otherwise healthy people now investing in buttloads of expensive (and frequently warrantied/replaced if my neighbours experiences are typical) batteries and technology so they can get one extra run in/enjoy the climbs a bit more.
Feels like the wrong direction for capitalism to be taking us in from an environmental perspective (same as: how on earth were single use vapes ever allowed on to the market?).
BUT I guess it's all relative, me and my garage full if bikes that I've accumulated over the last ten years is probably closer to owning an e-bike in terms of excessive consumption than someone who just owns a pair of running shoes 🙄
Always backed up with excuses like too old, bad knee, not enough time.
How do you know they are excuses?
Just don’t get annoyed when the piss is taken (I love making a vroom vroom noise when passed by an ebike) shows that you have a thin skin 😁
I'd not worry about anyone getting annoyed if I were you.
They'd be too busy laughing at you itching in your hair shirt to notice any silly noises you made.
I don’t get people getting angry about other folk using them or worrying about what others may think if you choose to ride one. As long as you’re not being a dick about it, whichever type of bike you ride, then crack on. Just respect each other and where you are riding.
Meh, same old argument that’s gone round the bazaars since MTB came in to existence, be it about suspension, aluminium, carbon, singlespeed vs gears, etc, etc.
As has been mentioned already. I don't think it's the same as any of those other things.
A fundamental thing about a bicycle is that it's human-powered.
An ebike isn't just another kind of bicycle - it's something fundamentally different.
Not that one's necessarily better than the other but they're completely different past times.
It's the genius of marketing that they've been so effectively blended together.
It doesn’t worry me
It worries you so little you felt the need to post about it...
Seems you like to give but can't take it to me.
BTW. I'm not an ebiker any more than I'm a hardtail or full suss rider. I just ride bikes of all flavours.
Never encountered anyone making daft noises at me while out riding any of my bikes.
If i did i'd think they were a little strange and carry on as normal.
I’m going to take the opposite tack and predict that this comment will come back and bite you on the bum. 😉
: ) I may well be wrong... tbh would be quite happy to be wrong. It seems more likely now than the first time I said it though.
There will always be non-electric MTBs about and not all will be XC riders, but culturally MTB is not about pedalling uphill so I don't see why e-MTBs won't become what most riders have or aspire to.
(when people stop seeing it as 'giving up', cheating etc that will be a milestone along the way)
Yes.
Actually, I changed my mind. No.
You forgot maybe
Maybe not.
More importantly, @weeksy, what did you take? How did it make you feel? Did it actually matter?
I've read all the responses but I need some closure, I gotsta know!
As a relative noob to a kenevo SL, I would respectfully suggest that anyone that hasn't used an eeb for proper riding is talking out of their hoop. It's already clear to me that its not what I thought it was going to be.
The Kenevo is a decent bike and the power is a tool. How one uses a tool is up to the user. There isn't one of us on this thread thats identical in the way we use our non-powered bikes, let alone eebs.
It's surprisingly myopic not to recognise that. To group all eeb users together is just classic binary thinking.
Eebs give choices for mtbing in a way that ones own little legs just can't.
My garmin metrics show I'm working more overall, I'm gaining fitness and recovering more readily from my efforts.
My riding experience is I'm getting more trails, both up and down and doing more of the good stuff. The extended range and time on the bike before I'm spent means I'm even feeling more benefits on a whole body basis from the greater proportion of 'body english' trails.
Will someone present me with a counter argument as to why any of these things are bad, or 'giving in'?
You know all those bits of singletrack that are quite flat but have just enough gradient to be fun downhill? Add a motor and put some effort in and you can have fun on them downhill (no motor required) and UPHILL too!
I was reminded of this when riding home up one of these gentle climbs on my singlespeed, thinking how I work just as hard on the ebike but I go loads faster and it’s way more fun.
i'm in a road biking club with a number of older guys - a number of them have E-Bikes, and its a regular topic of discussion.
Basically the collective opinion seems to be that as you get older a bit of assistance brings a bit of joy back to cycling as you can get up the hills without knocking yourself out, none of them are chasing strava numbers anymore - just riding for enjoyment.
3 of us went out this morning, the oldest was 79 (28 years older than me) on his new E-bike. He had it on the lowest assistance setting (+50w) and flew up the hills. He's really happy with it and its really nice to see people still getting a buzz from cycling at that age - i hope i'm doing the same if i'm still around.
The ebike evangelists are in town.
I like bikes to be simple, uncomplicated.
I enjoy riding my bike, I don't feel I want to bother with an ebike at the moment. I spent half my cycling life riding a single speed, I have gears now to help with the hills. When the time comes I might get an ebike but not yet.
I normally cycle 40 to 60 miles when I am out. I am not fast, but I enjoy cycling, I don't need smart comments from ebikers.
I think we can agree that e-bikes for 79 year olds are great, but for a 20-30 year old, significantly less so.
But the same has been leveled at folk cycling on the road using 32t rear sprockets.
I'd like to know what the next step will be after everyone (or pretty much everyone) has moved onto ebikes. Is just an incremental advance in motors, power and battery life? Or something completely different like MTB Zwift with a headset?
Pretty close to "pick a side and be a dick about it" after 4 pages... no-ones forcing anyone to ride a fixie, gravel, downcountry, fatbike or whatever you've chosen to spend your money on. Just ride the frikkin thing!
don’t need smart comments from ebikers.
No doubt you'd rather they be dumb to satisfy your prejudice without challenge? 😉
But the same has been leveled at folk cycling on the road using 32t rear sprockets
And multi speed cassettes and derailleurs.
and so it continues.
He’s really happy with it and its really nice to see people still getting a buzz from cycling at that age...
Aye, but he's not cycling. He's doing something different.
Doesn't mean it's bad but it's not cycling.
My garmin metrics show I’m working more overall, I’m gaining fitness and recovering more readily from my efforts.
This seems a bit delusional to me. The idea that riding an ebike is better for fitness than cycling.
When you are struggling up a hill, you should get one of these is not what you want to hear.
Ebikes remove some of the misery from cycling, remove misery and you loose the essence of cycling 🙂
Sorry, after riding I had to drive to St Davids. I took both but ride the Orbea today. Did it matter, well yes and no. It mattered because there's no way I'd have completed the riding I did on a manual.
Did it matter from the context of being mocked by someone, not at all.
It wasn't my hardest day ever on a bike I'll admit, but it was bloody enjoyable razzing the blues and red (extended version) at FoD.
Top fun, top day. No pics. Pub now
Did it improve your inner grin?
Every single time.
Not a chance I'd have done this ride on a normal MTB. Granted, most of it was gravel, but some bits weren't
Also not a chance I'd keep up with some of the young lads uphill on a group ride. It wouldn't be enjoyable.
Giving up, no, I still ride a normal bike
How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this
Did it improve your inner grin?
It was woods, mud, roots, berms, how could it not? 😄
This seems a bit delusional to me. The idea that riding an ebike is better for fitness than cycling.
Thats fair a comment, and I agree my statement does seem counterintuitive. But I now know your conclusion is made from a position of ignorance because I was there 3 weeks ago.
It's clear that plenty of riders are just slamming them into turbo and riding everywhere like that, and I think thats where most peoples thoughts about them stop. But its more nuanced than that.
Clearly, I can't speak for everyone's use, but whats happening with me is that at the top of every climb, I can use the bikes assistance to carry on riding whilst recovering instead of waiting for recovery stationary like I always have done.
So I continue.
Since these bikes won't provide assistance without pedaling, every aspect of the ride still requires my input and thus my exercise is more continuous rather than staccato, and goes on for longer, even at a lower level because of assist. My efforts on a ride appear to being smoothed on the peak output side of things, and look closer to the more steady output of a road ride.
Despite this, I can easily overmatch the power of the bike for short bursts, so I'm still getting access to veins bulging, eyes boggling, peak output moments, but as I tire during a ride I can rely in the bikes assistance a bit more and overall I'm doing more, not less.
Why does stuff have to be 'ok'? Why is 'cheating' even mentioned?
People are out on their bikes enjoying what the world has, and likely gaining a level of enjoyment from it that may just make them inclined to look after it a bit more.
It smacks of elitism, and there are some pretty crappy attitudes to humans on this thread.
Why do we need another strand to the pathetic tribalism that already seems to exist between genre and micro genre in bike riding?
If I'm out on a bike, and I see someone else on a bike, It makes me happy. And chances are them as well.
It's like a bloody playground in here sometimes, and not in a good way.
Be nice, say hi.
I don't get how people are making comparison to things like larger cassette sprockets, mountain bikes with suspension etc. The main difference is that all those advanced in technology still relied 100% on the riders energy to move whereas an ebike adds a very significant amount of power via a motor. It's motorcycling.
I am not against them at all, my girlfriend has one as she's very much a part time recreational cyclist amongst too many other more primary hobbies, and it allows her to ride with me without being miserable, but I would never have one myself at the age of 30 I would just get fitter on my own legs if I wanted to.
I know a fair few people that have bought them, had them a year then sold them and came out significantly less fit despite riding significantly more. Garmin stats tell you nothing about how strong your leg muscles are or how sore they'll be the next day regardless of what heart rate they tell you you're riding at during the workout.
For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.
So much these days is 'assisted'- technology makes our lives easier in a huge amount of ways so I like to have something which takes a bit of effort to get the most out of it - my performance and ability (or lack of) on a bike is all down to me and nothing else.
At 52 I'm probably riding better than I ever have and don't (yet) feel the need for an ebike.
This is of course only my version of how to enjoy yourself on a bike, as long as whatever you do works for you then all is good.
Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he'd probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn't be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.
How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this
In the same way that riding a motorbike isn't cycling.
@copa wow just wow 😳
Black/white thinking going on with you dude.
Collins dictionary:
What do you mean by cycling?
1. the act or sport of riding or traveling by bicycle, motorcycle, etc. 2. Also called: bicycle race, bicycle racing Sport. a race on lightweight bicycles with low handlebars, conducted for specified distances or against time on a dirt or board track or over public roads between cities.
You turn the pedals, the bike moves. That’s cycling.
Ebike or regular ebike.
Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it's motorcycling.
Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.
My Kenevo (1st gen) will do around 20 miles/2500ft riding mostly in eco. But I prefer riding in eco for just a bit of assistance. Turbo is for really nasty or technical climbs that I'd normally end up walking. Trail mode sometimes gets used inbetween.
I have a spare battery for longer rides (see above). I have eco set at 20%, but for the ride I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery
For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.
For me, it makes the part I DONT enjoy more enjoyable. Climbs that I can't clean, long drags on the return leg, blowing out of my arse trying to keep up with lads 20 years younger than me.
But the fitness aspect - yes, you can get a workout and I always end up sweaty and sometimes max out my heart rate on an eeb - but it's definitely harder on a normal bike, even out on my own, at my own pace. Works your leg muscles more
Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. <br /><br />It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon !
Black/white thinking going on with you dude.
It is black/white because they're two different things.
A cyclist is somebody who rides a bicycle. A bicycle is powered by a human.
Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon !
Is this your first time on the internet?
Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it’s motorcycling.
nope. The law says if you have a throttle, have more than an average output of more than 250w, or assists over 15.5mph, thats motorcycling.
Not got those? Still cycling, and you can do it anywhere non e-bikes are allowed, without any insurance or tax.
I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery
Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that. I guess it's the up that makes the difference. And the rider weight. Physics init.
@copa an ebike is powered by a human and assisted by a motor. What's the issue apart from semantics and you being a grump sod for the sake of it🤷🏻
A bike is a bike is a bike
I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.
Small point...lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.
Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that.
It has, mine is 5 years old and has a 500wh battery, compared to most now having a 700wh
Small point…lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.
The guy was riding natural trails around Crieff, trails I'd ride on a cx bike, my 120mm xc bike would be ample bike.
A bike is a bike is a bike
Because that's obviously not true.
There's a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine. They are two different things.
The reason I get annoyed when the two are conflated is complex and probably very boring.
And would involve talking about capitalism.
I’m feeling like weeksy trolled us all then pissed off out for a ride 😀
There’s a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine
Pedant mode
An ebike isn't powered by an engine
/Pedant mode
And would involve talking about capitalism
You are way overthinking this dude. Chill 😂